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Utopia Talk / Politics / Biden might not be 46th President
Dukhat
Member
Tue Nov 24 23:18:18
Trump can still resign and have Pence pardon him so that he can get away with all his corruption and criminality.
Habebe
Member
Tue Nov 24 23:25:54
Trump can just pardon himself.Pardon powers are fairly liberal.
Habebe
Member
Tue Nov 24 23:28:03
I should point out its disputed by legal minds, however afaik, no law exists saying otherwise.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Tue Nov 24 23:52:10
i don't think Trump's ego would allow himself to give power to Pence, plus be indebted to him... i can't imagine he has any respect for the toady

also, Trump has already claimed he has power to do it himself (just likely wouldn't hold up)

many of his legal issues are State level anyway so pardon doesn't help
Habebe
Member
Wed Nov 25 00:09:12
I think it could hold up. This seems like an obvious power. It specifically mentions impeachment as a limitation, so why wouldnt it mention themselves?
patom
Member
Wed Nov 25 04:59:58
Highly doubtful that Trump would trust Pence.

I doubt that it would stand up in any court of law by pre pardoning.
Correct me if I'm wrong but if you haven't been convicted of a crime there is NOTHING to pardon.
Habebe
Member
Wed Nov 25 06:00:38
http://en....mer%20president%20Richard%20M.

A federal pardon can be issued prior to the start of a legal case or inquiry, prior to any indictments being issued, for unspecified offenses, and prior to or after a conviction for a federal crime.

-----

The bigger debate is can someone pardon themselves. Im in the camp that says yes. The media seems to fully support the opposite. However considering the US SC has a fair amoint of textualists and origianlists on it, id bet legally right now Trump could.
pre pardin himself.

The bigger issue is that most of his chargea are NY state issues which he would need a pardon from Cuomo, which isnt happening.
Habebe
Member
Wed Nov 25 06:00:38
http://en....mer%20president%20Richard%20M.

A federal pardon can be issued prior to the start of a legal case or inquiry, prior to any indictments being issued, for unspecified offenses, and prior to or after a conviction for a federal crime.

-----

The bigger debate is can someone pardon themselves. Im in the camp that says yes. The media seems to fully support the opposite. However considering the US SC has a fair amoint of textualists and origianlists on it, id bet legally right now Trump could.
pre pardin himself.

The bigger issue is that most of his chargea are NY state issues which he would need a pardon from Cuomo, which isnt happening.
Average Ameriacn
Member
Wed Nov 25 06:20:23
Could Trump pardon every Republican in a mass pardon? Think of that! All jails would be filled with Democrats and they could not vote in 2024!
Habebe
Member
Wed Nov 25 06:27:27
That would be technically legal. Mass pardons have happened before.

A potus has near unlimited pardon power for federal crimes.
Habebe
Member
Wed Nov 25 06:46:36
As he enters the home stretch of his White House tenure, Donald Trump has used his clemency power less often than any president in modern history, according to data from the U.S. Department of Justice. Trump’s sparse use of pardons, commutations and other forms of official leniency stands in sharp contrast to his predecessor, Barack Obama, who used the clemency power more frequently than any chief executive since Harry Truman.

http://www...y-president-in-modern-history/
patom
Member
Wed Nov 25 09:21:14
So what does that indicate? That Trump didn't give a fuck about people who had been convicted?
It would be more interesting to see who and what crimes all of these who were pardoned for.
kargen
Member
Wed Nov 25 14:16:55
What federal crimes do you suspect?

And beyond that it would be political suicide for the Democrats to attempt charging a federal crime.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Wed Nov 25 14:50:07
tax fraud, bank fraud, obstruction of justice, campaign finance violations

he's definitely guilty of federal crimes, but i agree unlikely to be charged due to appearances

there's still hope for state level charges though
renzo marQuez
Member
Wed Nov 25 14:52:17
I'm not familiar enough with the tax and bank fraud allegations but the obstruction and campaign finance allegations are complete BS. No way a conviction could ever be obtained if Trump got a fair trial.
habebe
Member
Wed Nov 25 15:01:01
PAtom, And if it eas reversed, you would argue he abused his power.

With only 47 pardons its a pretty easy list to compile.
kargen
Member
Wed Nov 25 15:16:40
"tax fraud, bank fraud, obstruction of justice, campaign finance violations"

so a bunch of shit you and others like to generalize about.

IRS already fined him for his taxes and is looking into other allegations that could result in more fines.
Even if the campaign finance violations were true (they are not) the penalty there is paying back the illegal contributions.

jergul
large member
Wed Nov 25 15:33:03
48
Dukhat
Member
Wed Nov 25 19:21:37
Just pardoned Flynn. Corrupt till the end.
kargen
Member
Wed Nov 25 22:52:17
According to a legal expert President Trump can't pardon himself because as of now there is no crime to pardon. Also means VP Pence would not be able to pardon him for the same reason.

tumbleweed
the wanderer
Wed Nov 25 23:06:21
there are crimes, but also doesn't seem needed:

Nixon's pardon was "for all offenses against the United States which he, Richard Nixon, has committed or may have committed or taken part in during the period from January 20, 1969 through August 9,1974"


also, someone on the TV said they don't need to be made public, so likely secret pardons going out for every Trump family member who hasn't turned on him & every person who has praised him sufficiently
kargen
Member
Wed Nov 25 23:17:24
I guess the legal expert wasn't so expert.

and nothing President trump or those around him do is secret. To many Obama shills still around. Turns out a good number of them are rising back up from the depths so they can keep an eye on President-elect Biden.
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