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Utopia Talk / Politics / Vaccine News 4
jergul
large member
Sun Jan 03 12:26:38
Norwegian Government is doing good. Shutdown procedures tightened in a major way while infection levels are still sort of low.

Scary that Governments have to do well for vaccination programmes to be a race against time.
Rugian
Member
Sun Jan 03 12:39:03
Pathetic. But as Hood recently made abundantly clear, half of y'all are complete shut-ins anyway so its not like you'd care either way if social gatherings were banned or not.

Maybe you should develop some empathy for those people who actually value having interactions with other human beings and be more opposed to arbitrary lockdowns.
jergul
large member
Sun Jan 03 13:55:10
How danky is that baseroom suite of yours?
Rugian
Member
Sun Jan 03 13:57:56
I'd respond but I have no idea what a baseroom is.
habebe
Member
Sun Jan 03 14:06:38
Yeah a petrol state with the population of SC.....impressive.
jergul
large member
Sun Jan 03 14:07:04
basement, autist.
jergul
large member
Sun Jan 03 14:07:46
Rentier State habebe.

Why are you unable to grasp that?
habebe
Member
Sun Jan 03 14:57:40
Why are you ashamed that your a petro state?

18-20% of ypur GDP

Over 60% of exports are petroleum based.
Rugian
Member
Sun Jan 03 15:07:26
jergul

I believe the term you were looking for is "pedant."

And as I have previously explained to one of the HOer trolls that brought it up, I don't have a basement.

You on the other hand have repeatedly and proudly gone on about how the Norwegians are famously an un-social people. The question of your pre-pandemic level of social engagement is therefore an on-side issue.
Seb
Member
Sun Jan 03 15:24:46
Rugian:

Jerguls point is that the value of the oil exports needs to be compared to the value of the national wealth fund.

Oil exports crude and refined were about USD 68bn.

The wealth fund earnings for that year were USD 180bn.

The wealth fund generated, in that year, 3 times the income of their petrol industry.

Norway is a pension fund with a side business in oil.


habebe
Member
Sun Jan 03 15:57:25
And where did the wealth fund get funded?

They invest their oil profits. Oil is still their primary industry.
Seb
Member
Sun Jan 03 17:21:57
A great deal of Oxfords wealth came from the slave trade.

Is it a slave market?
habebe
Member
Sun Jan 03 19:01:24
Well actually England was a Colonial power.

Why was it considered a Colonial power? because its power and wealth primarily came from colonies. Amongst other things colonies made profits from slavery.
Dakyron
Member
Sun Jan 03 19:17:43
England was very anti-slavery for much of the colonial period. They did conquer and steal land from many different peoples, but they were abolitionists.
habebe
Member
Sun Jan 03 19:31:48
Norway has done well compared to most otger petrol states. It also has logging and fishing plus it wqs already a rather modernised country before oil.

However, it was by no means wealthy like it is today since the oil industry.
jergul
large member
Wed Jan 06 02:44:56
Big data infers that 80 million americans have had covid and 500k have died.

So a 0,65% mortality with a functioning health service.
Seb
Member
Wed Jan 06 04:06:54
habebe:

All very interesting, but would you describe Oxford University currently as a university, or a slave market?
jergul
large member
Wed Jan 06 04:16:13
habebe
Norway's economic activity is driven by its mighty service sector. Just like everywhere else in the developed world.
werewolf dictator
Member
Wed Jan 06 04:34:42
UK scientists worry vaccines may not protect against S.African coronavirus variant

by Reuters

Monday, 4 January 2021 14:58 GMT

* UK says worried about S.African variant

* Mutations include extensive alterations to spike protein

* Changes could lead to "escape from immune protection"

* Vaccine makers are testing shots against new variants (Recasts with quotes, details from scientists)

LONDON, Jan 4 (Reuters) - UK scientists expressed concern on Monday that COVID-19 vaccines being rolled out in Britain may not be able to protect against a new variant of the coronavirus that emerged in South Africa and has spread internationally.

Both Britain and South Africa have detected new, more transmissible variants of the COVID-19-causing virus in recent weeks that have driven a surge in cases. British Health Secretary Matt Hancock said on Monday he was now very worried about the variant identified in South Africa.

continued..

http://news.trust.org/item/20210104140005-hnx99
Seb
Member
Wed Jan 06 05:40:20
And this is why we need to be pursuing elimination
jergul
large member
Wed Jan 06 05:42:53
The SA variant could to all purposes be a new and distinct pandemic.
Seb
Member
Wed Jan 06 06:45:05
jergul:

The mRNA vaccines can be relatively easily adapted - but it's big problem if it's effectively escaped some of the vaccines.
jergul
large member
Wed Jan 06 07:04:11
Seb
It just depends on how much we have learned.

Right now, we have a budding epidemic where existing vaccines and existing measures will not work effectively.

Just like we had a year ago.

Can we gear up and effectively eradicate the SA variant before it infects a significant fraction of our populations?

I do not know, but I am not hopeful.
Seb
Member
Wed Jan 06 07:17:07
jergul:

Don't get me wrong - it hugely complicates things. We need to establish if it is a vaccine escape quickly. We also need to establish it's spread and if it can be contained.

This is where an effective global governance would be hugely beneficial.

E.g. we need a scheme that would finance ccountries that need to implement massive lockdowns using IMF SDRs and an established means of kicking them into deep freeze - and a mechanism for effectively forgiving the debt.


Seb
Member
Wed Jan 06 07:17:59
In many ways, having Trump in the white house rather than even someone like GWB has meant this pandemic is a missed opportunity for establishing mechanisms to address the next one.
jergul
large member
Wed Jan 06 07:49:15
Seb
Yepp, I have been saying that for a while. The important thing here is to kick our epedemic response out of the 19th century and into the 20th.

Covid-19 is a dress reheasal for the real thing.

The SA variant is effectively a new dress rehearsal.

Perhaps new mutations will lead to yet other dress rehearsals until we get it right.

The real thing is something with a significant mortality rate.

jergul
large member
Wed Jan 06 08:10:40
The geopolitical stuff is stunning. We really need to stop validating the CCP.
chuck
Member
Wed Jan 06 08:17:11
Indeed
jergul
large member
Fri Jan 08 07:49:00
Data in suggesting vaccines work against the SA variant.
Dakyron
Member
Fri Jan 08 08:56:03
Was there ever any doubt?
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Fri Jan 08 09:05:31
There is always doubt.
Sam Adams
Member
Fri Jan 08 09:33:34
There was some doubt.

On the distribution front, my state has recieved 550k vaxes and has only administered 150k. 400k are sitting unused in a warehouse. The state vax comission spent most of their time debating social justice and vaccine equity.

Godamnit sebs are retarded.
Nekran
Member
Sat Jan 09 05:19:04
For those who are interested, a dutch programmer explains the vaccine through his own coding lens. Interesting read for the biology layman:

https://berthub.eu/articles/posts/reverse-engineering-source-code-of-the-biontech-pfizer-vaccine/
Seb
Member
Sat Jan 09 07:29:47
Jergul:


Yeah, is kinda an obvious scheme and I suggested something similar back in I guess August when Dakyron and Rugian were first being dumb.

It likely wouldn't be inflationary, or even really cost the reserve currency holders; and the benefits if you can hang pandemic, even third order on global trade impacts, mean it's probably outweighed by benefits to the reserve currency issuers.
Seb
Member
Sat Jan 09 07:32:41
Sam:

Except that isn't really happening in the UK, in the equivalent scheme which I'm actually leading a part of.

You have shit govt because you have consciously made it shit for years, because of people like you that think public sector *should* be shit, needs to be undermined to ensure it is shit, because it's a moral imperative to do so.



Seb
Member
Sat Jan 09 07:37:33
Dakyron:

Yes: the SA version involves more mutations to the spike protein, and the Moderna and Pfizer vaccines work by injecting the mRNA to make that spike protein into your body so that your cells manufacture the spike protein, triggering your immune response.

So if the spike protein changes too much, there is a risk your body develops an antibody and memory cells that are effective against the spike protein of the first type, but which are not effective against the second type.

It's always a bit of a guessing game though whether the antibodies your body produces target particular features of the protein that are affected by the mutation.

Partly, this is why deep thoughts protein folding ML is a big deal - the blue we can move into predicting and understanding protein structures the more this shifts from informed intuition into a precise science.
Sam Adams
Member
Sat Jan 09 15:29:16
"You have shit govt because you have consciously made it shit for years, because of people like you that think public sector *should* be shit, needs to be undermined to ensure it is shit, because it's a moral imperative to do so."

Yes seb, i went and hired 10 social justice warriors to the 10 positions on the state vaccine committee and made them discuss social equity instead of vaccine logistics. That was all me and my small government friends.

Lol dumbass.
Seb
Member
Sat Jan 09 18:06:59
That's what I mean. You make up completely bullshit narratives about what the problem is, elect politicians that promise to shrink the state who then either put their mates in charge, slash budgets and salaries; promulgate the idea that public service is a role fit only for the lazy and incompetent; insist on outsourcing work to private sector who don't really care about building sustainable capability (turn the gravy train off? Are you mad?); and then wonder why you have a shit public sector. Yes yes, it must be diversity hires!

The problem is your state govt doesn't have anyone in logistics, because it's pay-scales are set at such a level that anyone who actually knows about logistics works for a supermarket or Amazon; and if you did have any internal capability, they wouldn't be allowed to do anything because there's likely regulations forcing delivery through the private sector because it's obviously more efficient to pay a private sector 30% margin minimum on an inflated cost base to do work that could be done in house at half the price.

You get the shitty state you deserve. This is why your country is turning into a banana republic. Even former presidents are recognising it.




Sam Adams
Member
Sat Jan 09 18:46:07
Seb hires social justice retards who fail.

Seb "the far right made me hire these retards!"

Dumber than dumb.

Seb==trump
Sam Adams
Member
Sat Jan 09 18:49:32
"The problem is your state govt doesn't have anyone in logistics"

Because the people hired for those posts were social justice and feminist theory graduates, chosen by you and other lefties like you.

Seb how do you always fail this badly?
habebe
Member
Sat Jan 09 19:44:30
Well atleast some things are the same. Sam and Seb arguing shit only those two care about.
Sam Adams
Member
Sat Jan 09 19:53:30
Having your government botch the vaccine rollout because the administrators spent their time whining about social justice is incompetence that everyone should care about.
Seb
Member
Sun Jan 10 06:38:29
Sam, the UK isn't failing on vaccine roll outs though, is it? it's America.

You say it's diversity hires, but the big difference between the UK and the US is that you have a party that's gone a lot further in hollowing out the public sector.
Sam Adams
Member
Sun Jan 10 12:59:40
Please seb explain to me how my liberal state focussing on the social justice aspect of the virus instead of vaccine distribution is the result of anything but their own choices?
Seb
Member
Sun Jan 10 17:02:32
Well Sam, you've already attributed it to a Brit successfully delivering a vaccine campaign in the UK, so it's pretty clear you think their performance depends on things other than their own.

It's far less of a leap to point out the structure of your committee and the skills it has is a consequence of how you systematically approach govt in the States. Your view: cut the budgets, cap salaries, shit on public service, and assume anyone who works in the public sector is incompetent and unemployable. Then you wonder why you can't get decent staff.

Sam Adams
Member
Sun Jan 10 18:05:45
I would be happy to pay bureaucrats well if they didnt suck. Some dont suck. Those who keep the avalanches off the interstate and the other low-ish passes here do a great job in horrific conditions and assuredly deserves $$. Our air traffic controllers likewise do a great job.

Oh wait i just noticed something. The road workers and the atcers are mostly men and do a great job. The vax commission is all women and failed completely. Hmmmmmmm. We might be onto something.
Seb
Member
Mon Jan 11 02:05:58
You didn't really answer the question Sam, or address the inconsistency in your position.

I'm far from convinced the issue is "they only talk about diversity" - literally everything you say turns out to be inaccurate. You even once had the gall to complain that I took things you said literally without independently fact checking.

You rarely even provide links to sources. That's not the behaviour of someone who is confident of surviving a basic fact check.

In short Sam, you are full of shit.

You get the govt you've been lobbying for.
Seb
Member
Mon Jan 11 02:06:46
Hence the trumpist banana republic you have arrived at. Congratulations.
jergul
large member
Mon Jan 11 04:25:39
http://www...ecirc_mostViewed_railB_article
Seb
Member
Mon Jan 11 04:51:55
Jergul:

What's the take-away?
jergul
large member
Mon Jan 11 04:59:48
Significant partial immunity for at least 6 months after having covid-19.
Seb
Member
Mon Jan 11 05:24:09
jergul:

3.6 quinquagintadies. Not great, not terrible.
Seb
Member
Mon Jan 11 05:24:46
My commitment to this meme is unshakeable. My Latin grammar is ... not.
Sam Adams
Member
Mon Jan 11 11:18:16
"You rarely even provide links to sources."

You do not have the mental faculty to understand most sources. Thus, why would i bother with you?

If a competent person asks for a source, it will be provided.

werewolf dictator
Member
Mon Jan 11 23:00:33
doses administered per 100 people

21.38 in Jan 11 Israel
11.80 in Jan 11 United Arab Emirates
5.44 in Jan 11 Bahrain
3.94 in Jan 11 United Kingdom
2.72 in Jan 11 United States
2.00 in Jan 10 Denmark
habebe
Member
Mon Jan 11 23:38:25
WWD, To add to that, within the US deep.red states have apparently been leading the way with successful administering of vaccines.

W. Virgina followed by the Dakota's.
Seb
Member
Tue Jan 12 00:36:18
No Sam, it's just because you are full of shit. Nearly every source you do provide turns out to be clickbaity tabloid where you've swallowed a misleading headline without reading the detail.
Forwyn
Member
Tue Jan 12 00:47:21
The great vaccination race

China 9 million
United States 8.99 million
United Kingdom 2.68 million
Israel 1.85 million
United Arab Emirates 1.17 million
Russia 800,000 (Jan 2, 2021)
Italy 701,623
Germany 613,347 (Jan 10, 2021)
Spain 406,091
Canada 319,938 (Jan 10, 2021)
Poland 203,053
Saudi Arabia 178,337
France 138,351
Romania 125,190
Denmark 115,932
Argentina 107,542
Mexico 81,300
Seb
Member
Tue Jan 12 02:27:27
Should do it per capita really.

jergul
large member
Tue Jan 12 02:35:20
Per capita is another measure. Vaccinations do not automatically scale to population sizes. Vaccinating 9 million people is exactly as hard in China as in the US.

The goal posts just rest in different places.
jergul
large member
Tue Jan 12 05:34:54
At least 30% of all deaths in the US right now are do to covid. The true number is probably closer to 50%.

We know the pandemic has severely restricted immigration. It probably has also lowered birthrates.

The US population is likely in decline. Important because population growth is by far the most important element in gdp growth.
Seb
Member
Tue Jan 12 07:21:02
Jergul:


Not really, the main figure of merit is number of vaccinators per capita. Another is health care capacity.

Granted this varies hugely; but it is much easier for the US or China to get to 9m despite variances in their health care system, than it is for France, say, to reach 9m.
jergul
large member
Tue Jan 12 09:26:10
Seb
Only if you are thinking in terms of vaccine quotas. This does cause odd issues like sending single vials to geographic regions because that is its fair share that day.

Otherwise, a jab is a jab. Its fucking amazing that rolling out available vaccines is even a problem.
Dakyron
Member
Tue Jan 12 09:29:42
WHO is saying masks, travel restrictions, social distancing needs to remain in place through the end of 2021.

That is bullshit. At some point, you have to go back to living a normal life. I think 2 years of social distancing is too long.
Seb
Member
Tue Jan 12 10:41:05
Jergul:

Think you might be missing the point.

Legally, to give a jab, you need to have certain certifications.

The logistics are challenging, yes, but you can plan around that and bring people (staff and patients) to a central hub.

The big issue after supply then is vaccinators. A vaccinator working flat out will have a fairly similar jabs whether they are Chinese, American, British or French.

While vaccinators per 100k may vary a bit, and fraction of people certified to give a vaccination who can be made available to a vaccination Program may also vary, it will not overcome the absolutee number of vaccinators between China, US and say, France.

The per capita difference is probably a better indicator of difference in each counties supply chain, logistics etc.

jergul
large member
Tue Jan 12 11:02:42
Seb
That is ludicrous. An argument valid only if we simply do not have the population base to provide enough vaccinators.

Every developed country does. Every developed country had enough time to certify 10 times the number of vaccinators they might need.

A jab is a jab. Except for new public management afficiendoes. Who would not think surging all capability to overwhelm bottlenecks is critical.

A per capita measure is simply a cloak to cover mass incompetence once we factor out the quota system for vaccination availability.

That should have been the only bottleneck.
Seb
Member
Tue Jan 12 13:06:55
Jergul:

Uh, no.

Firstly, to deliver an intramuscular injection of a medicine to a person requires a fair bit of medical training and certification to complete.

People who are available to do such training are also the people who make up your overstretched primary and secondary care workforce.

The next option is to look at creating a special class or relax regulations on performing specifically that procedure.

Who have been a bit busy of late.

But even if that were not the case and it was easy to expand the workforce, the number of vaccinators per capita would likely change proportionately. E.g. unless there are wildly different standards of training, it would take about the same amount of time for every country to double its vaccination workforce.


There are other things to consider to. Let's say you start creating a striped down certification process.

Does that risk undermining trust in the vaccine? Let's say you look for the most obvious adjacent profession - vetinarians.

Hmm no.

The prospect of significantly expanding the workforce is actually pretty low. Let's say an OECD country looked at it and found it expensive, risky, and unlikely to do much to expand workforce compared after retired or other trained staff that had left active work in the field.

However, from a mathematical point of view, the differences in trainable and or reactivatable staff and going to be to first order proportionate.

Essentially, the total number of people vaccinated depends on the vaccine supply available and total number of staff. I.e. everyone working flat out.

America will always count to 9m faster than France or UK because it has more people sticking needles in arms and very little would cause them to be overtaken.

Per capita comparisons will be affected by other factors as mentioned, but still represents the best comparative measure.
Sam Adams
Member
Tue Jan 12 13:51:19
"Firstly, to deliver an intramuscular injection of a medicine to a person requires a fair bit of medical training and certification to complete."


Ahahahahaha. Perhaps to a soy drinking euroweenie medical training is required to find your muscles. To the rest of us... well we just laugh at your bureaucratic stupidity.
Sam Adams
Member
Tue Jan 12 13:54:40
"Seb
Member Tue Jan 12 02:27:27
Should do it per capita really."

This is the opposite of what you said just recently when you were trying to hide your massive death rate and incompetence.

You can tell your iq is very low based on the number of logically conflicting arguments that you try to use.
jergul
large member
Tue Jan 12 14:31:26
Seb
Oh yes. There were months and months of relative downtime to do the training. Suggesting this is impossible suggests developed countries simply are not rebust enough to be viable.

Its a jab. Lack of persons to do the jab after all these months is a failure of new public management.

The only bottleneck should have been vaccine availability.

You are probably wrong when sammy and I agree.
Seb
Member
Tue Jan 12 16:57:42
Sam:

Finding your muscles isn't the hard part.

It's the various stuff you need to know about the regulatory approach to giving medicine. And yes, we know, you don't think there should be. Actions should be able to inject anything into anyone else they agree to because freedom.

But the reality is this is pretty tightly regulated in developed countries. You aren't allowed to perform this procedure without some kind of license.

Re per capita, if May 2020 is recent... Sure. What I specifically said was early infection rates didn't make much sense to normalise, for the clesr reason I gave.

It's probably a good measure now though.

Shocking idea, different normalisations are appropriate in different contexts. You will learn this when you get to high school level stats.
Seb
Member
Tue Jan 12 17:09:20
Jergul:

Not really - there were huge backlogs of deferred appointments, combined with staff shortages due to illness, lockdown measures etc.

But the simple thing is, for a given unit of expenditure, you can get more capacity from someone who is trained but not actively working in healthcare to come back as a temp than you can in training new staff.

But that's by the by - approximately, all countries pursuing this will do about as well. France, for example, isn't going to quintuple it's workforce and thus have the same absolute needle sticks per minute as the US (assuming the US did nothing).

Pretty much everything ends up getting driven by the number of healthcare workers per capita prior.

"The only bottleneck should have been vaccine availability"

So far, it largely is, supply being delivered pretty much as it is available, and counties having bought to a timetable based on their needle sticking per second.

Hence France is doing shit because of the EU schemes logistics. America and the UK going much faster.

Wanna know something funny? It's actually the supply chain for vials that's the biggest problem across the board (i.e. globally). There's a shortage of medical grade vials of the right spec.

We are nowhere *near* the workforce limit in the UK yet.
Seb
Member
Tue Jan 12 17:26:27
The idea that by training you will increase the number of needle stickers by any significant factor is kinda crazy really.

Even if you do think creating a slimmed down certification/license for "I am permitted by regulators to administer Covid vaccine intramuscularly to patients".

Remember by the way, the vaccine is novel. So vaccinators need to be trained on first response and diagnosis of adverse reactions.

It's not the technique of "find a muscle, stick needle in, press plunger".
Sam Adams
Member
Tue Jan 12 17:38:19
Jesus fucking christ. Seb wants to delay the covid vaccine to do paperwork.

First off, no. Just no.

Secondly, if you did need to do that BS paperwork, it would have been logical to do it before the vaccine arrived.

So dumb.
Seb
Member
Tue Jan 12 18:17:40
Sam:

"Seb wants to delay the covid vaccine to do paperwork."

Firstly, no, diagnosing adverse reactions isn't paperwork, it's patient care. Being able to tell which of the twenty or so possible adverse reactions an individual is experiencing, and how to treat it, and being deemed competent to treat it. Otherwise there is little benefit.

The recording can be done by someone else.

Quite how one collects paperwork on the adverse reactions an individual experienced before they got vaccinated... I'll overlook that particular stupidity Sam, but suggest someone fills out a pre-emptive death certificate for you now to save time when you do finally stop breathing. Technically it is accurate as you clearly achieved brain death some time ago.

Secondly, absolutely the "paperwork" needs to be done - I mean we grown ups call it "collecting data", or "science".

The vaccines have been through the most minimal trial for any drug introduced to the market at this kind of scale, ever.

We have virtually no information around allergies, interactions etc.

Further, if you want to do tracking of vaccine failure rates (you do), understand effective coverage, and ensure people who test positive after vaccination samples are sent for full genomic analysis, all the good and sensible things anyone that isn't a bone headed retard would want to do (so not you) yeah, you need full medical record keeping.

Further, because the vaccine doses need to be spaced at particular intervals, and not too close to flu vaccines, in order to be effective, again, data collection.

Also, not just me, literally all the clinicians think this.

But again that can be done by admin staff mostly - it's not germane to the conversation jergul and I are having.

Seb
Member
Tue Jan 12 19:14:53
Sam wants to get his vaccine from Nick Riviera
Sam Adams
Member
Tue Jan 12 22:54:24
"Further, because the vaccine doses need to be spaced at particular intervals"

So you are saying... you need a nurse to add a few weeks to a date for you? That you need training and paperwork for this? That you cant figure out the date or find your own muscles without help?

Lol no wonder you have the economic prowess of alabama... and falling.
Seb
Member
Wed Jan 13 01:06:41
Sam:

I don't, but I'm not over 80 and suffering dementia.

So you need paperwork (i.e. good record keeping) to know when the person in front of you received their last dose.

The training is a different issue, as explained. If senile Doris passes out, needle sticker needs to rapidly figure out why and what to do.

Admin staff.

Clinical staff.

Separated.

Two roles.

In a SOP.

I know this is hard for you Sam.
jergul
large member
Wed Jan 13 01:28:50
We get it Seb.

Its easier to train and deploy spitfire pilots than it is to train and deplloy vaccinators.
jergul
large member
Wed Jan 13 05:27:37
Anecdotal and knock on wood.

I have not had a cold or cough since the initial shutdown in March/April.

Seb
Member
Wed Jan 13 06:34:20
Jergul:

I can tell when you think you've lost the argument you know ;-).

No it's not harder than training a fighter pilot. But there is a reason that Churchill used the term "few" to describe the RAF fighter pilots.

100,000 plots roughly were trained between 1940 and 1945 (most bomber crew).


Why the hell are you spending 10 times the money to train new vaccinators and creating a striped down course to do so undermining public confidence, when there are 10 times as many people who are already trained and certified who can be called back on a temporary basis? Are you mad or do you just like wasting money?


Point is though, variations between these numbers per capita isn't great enough that become throughput will be hugely different .

Most countries wont have hugely different workforce per capita, so immunisations per capita is a good normalisation.
jergul
large member
Wed Jan 13 06:42:35
I made no call on who should do the vaccinations, though I would start with certifying clinical practioners like osteopaths in addition to the what 75% of certified nurses who no longer work in the field.

Redundancy is far better than optimization because it makes society robust.

Covid-19 remains a dress rehersal. It would be a sad thing indeed that only repressive regimes can muster the resources to deal with crises.
patom
Member
Wed Jan 13 08:14:09
Trump throwing more shit on his way out the door.

http://www...us-vaccine-distribution-458545
jergul
large member
Wed Jan 13 09:30:28
"Cabin crew members and pilots for the British discount airline EasyJet will be trained to administer Covid-19 vaccines, the company said Wednesday.

Easyjet said it expects hundreds of its employees to volunteer for “fast tracked” training to become vaccinators at immunization centers across the country.

“With over 3000 crew who are first aid trained, security cleared and based up and down the UK in London, Bristol, Manchester, Liverpool, Edinburgh, Glasgow and Belfast, easyJet cabin crew are well positioned to support the NHS (National Health Service) in the nation-wide vaccination programme,” the airline said in a statement."

Heh :)
Seb
Member
Wed Jan 13 09:44:57
Jergul:

A lot of organisations are doing publicity schemes like this. Essentially volunteering those who already have first response training. Particularly large orgs with existing staff training on furlough.

They may be additionally paying to train those without that basic first responder qualification (govt isn't).

However, some with first responders training still need to be supervised by someone with higher medical training.


For the vacs centre this can work: a sector clinician in a pod and two to three vaccinators and two to three admin. But we designed it to work that way.

But plane crew are pretty good in that I think each planes are required to have someone who can both technically administer a jab but also qualified to handle any reaction and competent to prescribe/administer controlled drugs.

But staffing isn't a big bottleneck, and the mass vacs centres aren't the bulk of the capacity really.

The mass vacs centres are coming online now and are aimed at 50-65 cohort (and then below) really - the 65+ and at risk groups are being done through the LVS services run by GPs and Pharmacies; and hospital hubs.

Recalled staff are the biggest additional capacity boost.

By the end of the year this should be mainstreamed into seasonal jabs.





Seb
Member
Wed Jan 13 09:47:01
TL;Dr - they are likely staff qualified to do so the things you need to do, and are getting trained in the mass vacs SOPs and tools; not trained to be qualified to be able to administer drugs. Where not, the govt isn't paying for the medical training, and if easyJet wants to, they can.
Seb
Member
Sat Jan 16 14:05:50
UK has now vaccinated more people than have have tested positive.
Sam Adams
Member
Sat Jan 16 17:59:30
Thank pfizer.
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