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Utopia Talk / Politics / COVID Lockdowns Have No Clear Benefit vs
Renzo Marquez
Member
Fri Jan 15 09:53:23
Other Voluntary Measures, International Study Shows

http://www...rce=Twitter#Echobox=1610642799
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Fri Jan 15 10:08:56
Different population have varying degrees of compliance with voluntary measures.
Renzo Marquez
Member
Fri Jan 15 10:15:30
Same applies to involuntary measures.
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Fri Jan 15 10:35:57
Yes, that is a variable, but unless you want to argue that laws don’t have a deterring effect, it is a minor effect. We are still talking about civilized countries with laws where people in general follow laws.
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Fri Jan 15 10:44:31
If they don’t, there will be consequences. The important thing to understand about a place like Sweden, is that it has long been a country ruled by ”consensus” and consensus generally means if the CDC says ”cancel christmas”, that is the consensus. There is still a high degree of trust for authority here. Small country, you are close to your ”rulers”, ser them on the streets. They don’t need to make it a law because 80% of people follow it.

It is not some magic or an indefinite thing. They recently passed new laws on this, you can now go to jail for things that only got you a fine. My point is, bith Sweden and SK the succesful voluntary countries are both culturally exceptional in ways that facilitate a voluntary ”success” with covid.
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Fri Jan 15 10:59:43
These are traits, a lot of people here would sneer at as inferior, slavish submission to authority, a scary form of collectivism etc. and maybe there is something to that. Remember when Germany mobilized their country to take over the world, twice, and almost succeded? Quite impressive, but also very bad manners.

Now, mind you, how this has been handled has cost the current government in approval numbers, but initially there was a _record high_ support for the handling. You can take that as a data point for Swedish exceptionalism. We went into this with the ”full” support of and trust in our authorities and experts. The Swedish CDC, Folkhälsomyndigheten, has the highest approval of any Swedish authority with 88% positive. How many of the countries in that study had that?
habebe
Member
Fri Jan 15 11:03:05
Biden is just about in, The Democrats are ready to ooen the economy.
Sam Adams
Member
Fri Jan 15 11:36:39
"Remember when Germany mobilized their country to take over the world, twice, and almost succeded?"

Germany was not close to taking over the world. They beat france and failed to beat anyone else.
Sam Adams
Member
Fri Jan 15 11:55:32
Anyway, it is pretty clear that covid was a pretty massive failure for all of humanity that can be blamed on a number of sources.

Governments and bureaucrats like seb failed utterly in all respects across the world.

The medical industry is far behind where it should be. We have smartphones spaceships and nuclear power... but doctors that are barely removed from the first tentative early industrial age forrays into understanding physiology. Get with the fucking century you nutbags. Slow to develop vaccines are the only tool these idiots have.

The average human is too retarded to wear a mask properly, or to maintain simple distance apart. This is not surprising. The average human is useless.

We were all complacent. Its been 100 years since something like this has happened.

Complicating the picture is the threat of this virus to the youngest 50% of the population was very small. You arent getting healthy 20 year olds to socially distance for a virus that kills 1 in 100,000 of their number. Its just not happening.
murder
Member
Fri Jan 15 13:28:56

"The average human is too retarded to wear a mask properly, or to maintain simple distance apart. This is not surprising. The average human is useless."

A healthy percentage of the US covid clusterfuck can be traced directly back to our idiot president who lied like he lies about everything. His inability to concern himself with anyone but himself led him to downplay the virus and ridicule even the most basic precautions, and his cult followed along. All Trump cared about was keeping the economy humming to guarantee a 2nd term.

400,000 American deaths later, he's out of a job.

You can guess which part of that upsets him.

If there was any justice in the world, he would have died at Walter Reed hooked to a ventilator and gasping for every breath until his heart gave out like so many others have.

Unfortunately there is no justice in this world.
murder
Member
Fri Jan 15 13:31:19

"Complicating the picture is the threat of this virus to the youngest 50% of the population was very small. You arent getting healthy 20 year olds to socially distance for a virus that kills 1 in 100,000 of their number. Its just not happening."

There are ways of adjusting that number.
Dakyron
Member
Fri Jan 15 13:53:35
People were never going to social distance for 1.5 to 2 years. Its not possible for a society to do that.

Trump was retarded and fucked everything up, but every single level of government failed everywhere, at least in the United States. Unrealistic plans were made, CDC was lying to people, etc...

If basic precautions had been put in place immediately way back in January 2020, chances are we never get to this point. (basic precautions - nationwide enforced mask mandate, 100% of travelers screened at airports/seaports with mandatory quarantines strictly enforced, etc...)

Dakyron
Member
Fri Jan 15 13:56:08
Travel bans and travelers screened/quarantined plus setting up separate COVID hospitals(probably using military to do this), combined with bans on large gatherings(over 50 people) would have probably let Americans go on with a semi-normal life for the duration of the pandemic.

Sam Adams
Member
Fri Jan 15 14:02:10
http://twi...tatus/1350002369489199104?s=20

This is what bureaucrats in the uk do.

Also those same bureaucrats: why doesnt anyone ever listen to us!? Waaaaa!
Sam Adams
Member
Fri Jan 15 14:04:45
"People were never going to social distance for 1.5 to 2 years. Its not possible for a society to do that."

It might be for something truly catastrophic, like an airborn ebola. But ya, not for covid.
murder
Member
Fri Jan 15 15:11:42

"This is what bureaucrats in the uk do."

That's just batshit.

Renzo Marquez
Member
Sat Jan 16 05:49:29
Dakyron
Member Fri Jan 15 13:56:08
"Travel bans and travelers screened/quarantined plus setting up separate COVID hospitals(probably using military to do this), combined with bans on large gatherings(over 50 people) would have probably let Americans go on with a semi-normal life for the duration of the pandemic."

Travel bans were not even necessary. Just a long quarantine period for people returning to the country. And a massive amount of rapid testing. CDC completely botched testing and the early CDC/WHO guidance was wrong.
Renzo Marquez
Member
Sat Jan 16 05:50:39
But yeah, once you have uncontrolled exponential growth, you're fucked. Lockdowns do not appear to be effective.
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