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Utopia Talk / Politics / Health Care Plan
patom
Member
Sat Jan 16 10:15:12
How many are still waiting to hear Trumps cheaper and better health care plan that the world will rush to adopt?
Average Ameriacn
Member
Sat Jan 16 10:19:05
Wrath of Orion
Member
Sat Jan 16 10:21:23
That's a good summary of the plan.
murder
Member
Sat Jan 16 21:38:56

No one can possibly be surprised that Trump is a fraud. He's been a fraud his whole life.
habebe
Member
Sat Jan 16 21:55:08
Trump's 2 biggest failures were

1. No HC plan.Not really.

2. No infrastructure bill.

He promised a big Infra. bill, IIRC they were talking a trillion, which we could use.
patom
Member
Sun Jan 17 04:29:47
His biggest failure? His handling of the Pandemic. His almost never ending lies about the Covid 19 Pandemic. That singular package is what cost him the election.
Rugian
Member
Sun Jan 17 04:39:37
Patom

Election fraud is what cost him the election.
jergul
large member
Sun Jan 17 04:57:47
Ruggy
Allegations of election fraud cost him the election.

Literally the crazy plan of delegitimizing early and mail in voting. Risky wanting your voters to vote only on election day. He probably lost a few million votes there because life happens.
Habebe
Member
Sun Jan 17 05:11:14
Tom, Opinions. Mine is the pa demic from Trumps paet is not the failure CNN calls it.

No HC plan to replace Obama care, no Infra. Bill are my complaints.
jergul
large member
Sun Jan 17 05:40:23
habebe
So you favour increased municiple, state, and federal taxes?

And a significant increase at that. In Norway, total taxes are 42.2% of Gdp.

In case you were interested in the true reason behind why norway works so well.

You get what you pay for.

Habebe
Member
Sun Jan 17 05:50:09
Jergul, Perhaps, Im not opposed to tax increases. Although funding doesn't necessarily need to be taxing the citizens.

Norway has plenty of advantages.For starters ypur a small tight knit nation that has no diversity to speak of.

Then this small nation literally struck a mother fuck ton of oil and invested its.profits.well.

Just increasing taxes is ypur answer to everything and its not the solution to everything nor the main reason Norway works as well as it does, that ignores many other factors.
Rugian
Member
Sun Jan 17 06:01:15
Even with that ridiculous tax burden, Norway would be living well outside its means if not for the fact that its sitting on a huge amount of oil. The government's structural non-oil deficit runs at something like 10% of GDP every year.

Not exactly a model of fiscal governance, that place.
patom
Member
Sun Jan 17 06:05:17
Habebe, taxes pay for all the things that you or I as an individual cannot provide on our own. Norway and most of the Scandinavian countries do just that.
jergul
large member
Sun Jan 17 06:06:30
Habebe
18% of Norway's population is foreign born.
15% of US population is foreign born.

The US has far, far more natural resources than Norway does. By any measure.

Investing profits will goes to taxation and taxation as a % of gdp. Yah, we taxed the crap out of oil exploitation and put the proceeds in a Sovereign fund.

If you think infrastucture and health care are the two pressing problems of your time, then you should also be able to see that funding those things through taxation is the solution.
jergul
large member
Sun Jan 17 06:10:39
Ruggy
Norway is a model mixed model economy. Its what you get when capitalism is a tool and not a religion.
jergul
large member
Sun Jan 17 06:16:16
Covid is a nice case study. Norway has 1.67% of the US population and 0,14% of US covid deaths.
Rugian
Member
Sun Jan 17 06:23:15
"Norway is a model mixed model economy. Its what you get when capitalism is a tool and not a religion."

Its what you get when you have a shitton of oil.

If Norway's primary export was, say, wool, I doubt you'd be singing its praises here.

Face it, you're Saudi Arabia with fjords.
iWantMyAmericaBack
Member
Sun Jan 17 06:27:00
"Election fraud is what cost him the election."

"whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!"
jergul
large member
Sun Jan 17 06:27:03
A closer analogy is Alaska. Or even the US as a whole. There is no end the natural resources you could have exploited in a way that gave a better, more just union.

You chose to worship Mammon.
habebe
Member
Sun Jan 17 06:54:10
"The ethnicities in Norway are recorded as Norwegian 83.2% (includes about 60,000 Sami), other European 8.3%, other 8.5% by the Factbook as well."

http://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/norway-population

So over 91% of Norwiegans are ethnically European, 83% Norwegian, and that 8% is probably heavily.German/Scandinavian which is like.me.growing up in SE PA and living with Jerseyites.In other words your about as diverse as rural Wisconsin.

I think we can all agree there is plenty of evidence about how diversity impacts trust, and trust impacts a lot from economics to regular functioning.

A small population with a ton of oil. Lets look at Norway pre oil, not that impressive.

That doesn't mean Norway did not.manage it well, it did.Look at Venezuela for comparison.

Im not sure why you abhor the fact that Norway is wealthy primarily because a small population with vast amounts of oil, thats your history.You have prepared yourselves for a post oil economy pretty good, better than any other Petri state I can think of, why are you ashamed of this?
habebe
Member
Sun Jan 17 07:01:13
http://www...ries/NOR/norway/gdp-per-capita

Hmmm, I womdwr what happened about 1970 where GDP growth skyrocketed all of a sudden...hmm

Probably.a good year for fish sales.
jergul
large member
Sun Jan 17 07:22:26
Habebe
Oh, you meant we do not have very many black people.

We are wealthy because we redistribute wealth effectively, consider capitalism a tool and not a religion and have a mixed model economy that is closer to soviet style economic socialism than it is to worshiping profit like a god.

The US had a much better shot at working and you fucked it up because you like giving almost all your wealth to very few people.

Lulz at your selective reading a graph. What happened in 2000 when the graph really exploded?
jergul
large member
Sun Jan 17 07:25:29
When exactly will you realize that your model is both morally and economically bankrupt?

Will it be with the next 3 trillion dollar yearly deficit? Or the one after that?
www.yeswecansong.com
Member
Sun Jan 17 07:57:57
He lied so often about it:

http://khn...-health-plan-that-never-comes/

Trump’s History of Promising a Health Plan That Never Comes
jergul
large member
Sun Jan 17 08:02:31
My point is that someone (you are probably not that someone) needs to pay a lot more taxes if you want nice things from Government.

You get what you pay for.
habebe
Member
Sun Jan 17 08:20:15
Jergul, And where did that wealth come from to redistribute?

The rest just soinds like a broken record Even from this thread.

You have said yourself Norwaynis sort of a niche nation. Most of its ways would not cross over to say a Federation.

There is not one way to run a nation, there are many, different strokes for different folks.I do have my complaints abput the US, but suddenly jacking up taxes won't solve all our problems.

habebe
Member
Sun Jan 17 08:24:55
Actually if you compare The house of Saud ( 15k people) to their wealth they probably fare better than Norwegians.Why? oil.
Hrothgar
Member
Sun Jan 17 08:32:02
"Election fraud is what cost him the election."

I sure wish someone would show some evidence of this in a quantity that even comes close to changing the outcome.

It's a huge deal, but alas, no one who claims such can even begin to prove it legally.
jergul
large member
Sun Jan 17 08:35:25
Habebe
They really need to write an "Uncle Tom's Cabin" on disenfranchised and poverty stricken white people.

You are literally watching you father die on the sofa across from you. That USA is a choice.
jergul
large member
Sun Jan 17 08:43:43
http://www.ssb.no/forside/_attachment/279993?_ts=1578a22d890

Wealth redistribution was key to Norwegian reconstruction after wwii. A choice. Driven by workers organizations.

The success predates oil exploitation.
murder
Member
Sun Jan 17 11:30:10

"His biggest failure? His handling of the Pandemic."

His biggest failure was not being able to topple the government and declare himself king.

Renzo Marquez
Member
Sun Jan 17 12:07:09
patom: patience. He's still got at least two (actually, an infinite #) more years on the Biden scale.

http://twitter.com/barackobama/status/256576278818353152
Wrath of Orion
Member
Sun Jan 17 12:56:31
"I sure wish someone would show some evidence of this in a quantity that even comes close to changing the outcome."

This is what our Trump fluffer trio and the rest of the cultists thrive on. They don't care about evidence, facts, or even the state of the country. They're delusional pieces of shit and are completely out of touch with reality.
werewolf dictator
Member
Sun Jan 17 14:06:39
i predicted before election that trump would be leading on election night [this happened].. and then deep state would institute "hammer" and "scorecard" operation to fix election like they do in other countries [ive seen no good evidence that this didnt happen]


why show better health care plan [deaf dumb and blind idiot could do this in 10 minutes.. over pro insurance company obama-heritage-foundation care].. when congress is determined to stick with heritage-foundation-care

no only major error trump has made is pro-yemen anti-houthi stuff
Wrath of Orion
Member
Sun Jan 17 14:39:10
"ive seen no good evidence that this didnt happen"

lmfao
werewolf dictator
Member
Sun Jan 17 15:06:45
i think the burden of proof is on those who say it didn't happen
Wrath of Orion
Member
Sun Jan 17 16:36:18
Somehow I'm not surprised that's what you think. As before...lmfao.
werewolf dictator
Member
Sun Jan 17 17:40:31
"pro-yemen anti-houthi"

meant to say "pro-saudi" not "pro-yemen"

trump should know that continuing obama's support of saudis here is criminal
Forwyn
Member
Sun Jan 17 17:43:42
"if you want nice things from Government."

Being left along doesn't cost much.
Forwyn
Member
Sun Jan 17 17:43:53
alone, too
habebe
Member
Sun Jan 17 18:03:18
Jergul, Luckily he is actually doing great. He was given the new synthetic artery. Even now at home he has a nurse come out twice a week and a physical therapist come out twice a week. His foot and leg are doing better with more circulation.

I understand this is because of US socialized HC.Which while it has its faults is not as sink or swim as people think, and I support, although with reforms.

Again, Im not against increased taxes. I'm in flavor for example of increasing specific taxes too, such as sugar and trans fats should help pay for socialized medicine.
jergul
large member
Mon Jan 18 04:52:18
Habebe
Glad to hear your dad is doing better than it initially sounded like.

You caught the timeline right? Redistribution came far earlier than oil money. The trick with oil was to get it to fit the redistributive mode.

Government does not actually burn tax revenue. It redistributes it. Mainly by paying people to do stuff.
jergul
large member
Mon Jan 18 04:57:12
Forwyn
You sound like a girl in her early teens. "Why can't you just leave me alon".

You, know, the teen that is fed, housed, given schooling, healthcare as needed, an iphone, laptop, computer, make up, clothing, love and care.

A person in Norway has not paid back what they cost in Government outlays before their mid 50s. On average, they become loss items again at 65.

Do you ever pay back what a k12 education costs in the States?
patom
Member
Mon Jan 18 05:20:30
The GI Bill has been credited with generating over $4 dollars for every dollar spent putting people through college.
Can you imagine what would be lost without K-12 public education?
murder
Member
Tue Jan 19 23:35:07

"Being left along doesn't cost much."

It costs everything. People chose to form societies rather than live by themselves in the wilderness for a reason.

Being left alone means anarchy. Being left alone means being exposed to the predatory behavior of the worst among us ... or worse, gangs of them.

murder
Member
Tue Jan 19 23:47:37

"The GI Bill has been credited with generating over $4 dollars for every dollar spent putting people through college.
Can you imagine what would be lost without K-12 public education?"

It should be obvious that it is in the best interest of a nation to have as educated a populace as possible.

This ain't rocket surgery.
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