Welcome to the Utopia Forums! Register a new account
The current time is Thu Mar 28 18:41:21 2024

Utopia Talk / Politics / You are not worth 1 dollar more
Paramount
Member
Tue Jan 19 10:12:40
You get arrested if you ask for one dollar. Where is the freedom of speech?


Essential workers are "heroes" until they go on strike. NYPD arrested @Teamsters strikers for holding down their picket line at Hunts Point Market - dozens of cops sent in to try to stop workers from demanding a $1 raise. We know what they're paid to protect.

http://twitter.com/zoexwest/status/1351534837514067968?s=21
Sam Adams
Member
Tue Jan 19 10:48:04
Ahh yes the protesters always call themselves "peaceful".
Rugian
Member
Tue Jan 19 11:23:45
"“You are unlawfully in the roadway and are obstructing vehicular traffic,” an NYPD recording blares from a nearby police vehicle, the video shows.

“You are ordered to leave the roadway and use the available sidewalk. If you do so voluntarily, no charges will be placed against you. If you remain in the roadway and refuse to use the sidewalk, you will be placed under arrest and charged with disorderly conduct,” the recording says."

http://www...xgjq-story.html?outputType=amp
Paramount
Member
Tue Jan 19 11:51:33
They are still not worth 1 dollar more.
Rugian
Member
Tue Jan 19 11:57:42
Paramount

It depends. What's their current wage?
Habebe
Member
Tue Jan 19 12:01:10
This seems pretry clear cut. Obstructing traffic I intentionally is illegal for a pretty obvious reason.

Also, the teamsters union specifically have a history in the US....
Paramount
Member
Tue Jan 19 12:16:03
The roads must be a sacred place.
Habebe
Member
Tue Jan 19 12:23:45
Its more of a danger than being sacred. I mean ot depends on the road, but Id imagine in NYC its very busy road.

Chris Christie fucked up once by blocking a bridge out of spite, I forget the details but it e2as a pretty big deal.Emergency vehicles need access, people need to get to work, send and receive deliveries, especially with Covid.
Rugian
Member
Tue Jan 19 12:31:40
I take it Paramount doesn't use a car to commute.
Forwyn
Member
Tue Jan 19 14:39:55
"The roads must be a sacred place."

More like protesters cannot physically siege a private business. They can protest, they can refuse to work; they cannot block trucks from entering, or physically accost scabs, or destroy their property.
Dakyron
Member
Tue Jan 19 14:41:49
Unless its at the capitol building, then its no big deal, even if they are bashing people to death with fire extinguishers, right?

Anyway, for blocking traffic they should be shot to death.
murder
Member
Tue Jan 19 23:13:23

"You get arrested if you ask for one dollar. Where is the freedom of speech?"

Amusingly if it wasn't for unionization, 1/2 of cops would be in jail, and the other 1/2 would be unemployed.

Forwyn
Member
Tue Jan 19 23:34:46
lulz @ Dak

I've provided very little defense for the rioters. They are now subject to one of the widest investigatory projects in the history of our nation, and are being rounded up by the dozens. What I've said is that calling it a coup is retarded, and that the shooting of Ashli Babbitt was probably unjustified.

No one was shot here.
Forwyn
Member
Tue Jan 19 23:35:16
Also +1 murder, abolish public unions
murder
Member
Tue Jan 19 23:36:38

We can agree on the police unions. Most of the rest I'm neither hot nor cold on.

murder
Member
Tue Jan 19 23:42:34

"What I've said is that calling it a coup is retarded, and that the shooting of Ashli Babbitt was probably unjustified."

There is no universe in which a violent mob breaching a secured area full of elected officials and police officers doesn't justify a shooting.

The surprise is that only a single cop fired, and only a single bullet. That kind of restraint is not found on the street.

Remember the cop that shot the guy that wrestled with him, took his taser, and then fired it at him as he was being chased? He got shot twice in the back and killed. It all started with him sleeping off too many drinks.

Police shoot people every damn day for a fraction of what was going on in the Capitol that day.

Forwyn
Member
Wed Jan 20 01:05:16
Ehhhhhhhhh

I agree when you see a violent mob descend on public officials with a lust to kill; even my libertarian side acknowledges that's like, the very basic job of security officials.

But we have several videos of cops politely escorting these boomers on the Senate floor.

We have past pictures of protesters flooding the lobby that this one cop was so desperate to protect that he shot a woman.
habebe
Member
Wed Jan 20 02:57:11
"We can agree on the police unions. Most of the rest I'm neither hot nor cold on."

Well to expand on Murders statement Id throw in related unions for corrections officers etc.

I dont like the idea of a private prison system coupled with unions.pushing to keep people locked up longer....the whole thing is a.recipe.for disaster.

Admittedly Republicans share the brunt of the blame.for.private jails.
jergul
large member
Wed Jan 20 03:00:50
The problem is not public unions, its devolving security to municipal level.

Are you worried about the USMC union, or the FBI union, or the CIA union?
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Wed Jan 20 04:42:42
"Are you worried about the USMC union, or the FBI union, or the CIA union?"

Uhm, yes? The military industrial and intelligence complex are the center of 90% of concpiracy theories. As much as one could worry about crooked local politics that goes mostly unseen because it's uninteresting for the majorty, that worry should scale with the size and reach of the entity. The increased scrutiny at higher levels of power seems positive, but it also is an opportunity cost. If I am sucked into caring about things on the federal level, let's say, I will have less bandwidth to care about things going on in my own surroundings. Things that may be more important and have a more direct impact on my life.

That is my theory anyways.
jergul
large member
Wed Jan 20 05:16:25
Nimi
You should not be worried. Sweden has an officers union. When is the last time it took to the streets demonstrating for its members?

I think there is an opportunity dividend to engagement. If you care nationally, then you will tend to care locally.
habebe
Member
Wed Jan 20 05:25:42
My concern has nothing to do with them wanting more pay/benefits anyway.

My concern is more about their lobbying efforts for policy guidelines, increased criminalization etc.

This probably more.comes.from.related unions representing the prison workwrs and such.
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Wed Jan 20 05:50:42
Jergul
I was never worried because the Swedish military is a small, tiny and insignificant, like everything else in Sweden it is dimensioned for a mundane and uneventful life. We have no carrier groups or any oversees bases. We have the population of one of the smaller US states. Sweden is managable, still, for her citizens and for other countries to deal with.
jergul
large member
Wed Jan 20 05:59:52
habebe
You think correction unions want more volume to make work conditions even more crap in overfilled jails?

Take the best prison in the US and compare it to the best in Norway. Where would you prefer to work?
habebe
Member
Wed Jan 20 06:07:08
Such unions lobby against drug reform policies, mandatory minimums etc

They were some of the biggest opponents to weed legalization as well.
jergul
large member
Wed Jan 20 06:20:55
http://www...mWdZFKG8H3TbpZMdvNwL3lRdBO02YO
habebe
Member
Wed Jan 20 06:53:44
http://www.republicreport.org/2012/marijuana-lobby-illegal/
patom
Member
Wed Jan 20 06:54:32
Hunts Point is probably one of the single most important sources of fresh produce for both markets and restaurants in NYC. Each and every day Trucks from every corner of America are scheduled to be there and deliver a constant stream of produce.
habebe
Member
Wed Jan 20 06:55:18
Self funded police forces are also a big part of the problem.

Kind of self explanatory.You should like this one, ot means higher taxes.
patom
Member
Wed Jan 20 07:05:43
habebe, "Well to expand on Murders statement Id throw in related unions for corrections officers etc.

I dont like the idea of a private prison system coupled with unions.pushing to keep people locked up longer....the whole thing is a.recipe.for disaster.

Admittedly Republicans share the brunt of the blame.for.private jails."

For one thing habebe, the vast majority of Private for profit prisons are in states with right to work laws and the general populace have been brainwashed to think of Unions as evil demons sent by the USSR or China or Cuba.

The state of Maine and the Unionized Corrections Officers fought Republican Gov. Paul LePage in his attempt to have Private Prisons here in Maine. They were successful in blocking them.

The number one reason that Prisons became unionized is because of some of the most shitty working conditions in this country. The turn over of CO's is one of the highest in the country. Average career is 5 years. If it weren't for the benefits that Unions fought for there would be a turnover rate like none you have ever seen.

The Private Prisons contract with States and are guaranteed full capacity. They get paid by the number of beds filled. That contract is between them and the States. Unions have NO input on who or how many are sent to prison.

Finally you don't know your ass from third base about this subject.

habebe
Member
Wed Jan 20 07:28:48
tom, Such unions have lobbied against the good of the people for their own gain in favor of things like harsher sentences and against common sense drug reform.

I get that you mayntake this as a slight againt.ypu or your old union.Its not, im.sure many rank and file were against these as well as many particular unions.
jergul
large member
Wed Jan 20 07:40:36
So, your concerns are based on one outlier against one piece of legislation in California?

Unions have little to no common ground with privatized prison corporations.
habebe
Member
Wed Jan 20 07:50:55
I get that Unions have done much good. and they may even be a neccesary evil to protect workers from exploitation.

But they have caused or encouraged plenty of harm as well. And yes, this is a blanket statement, some are worse than others.
habebe
Member
Wed Jan 20 07:54:13
jergul, Plenty of police and related unions have lobbied against good criminal justice reforms.Not jist that individual case.
habebe
Member
Wed Jan 20 07:55:53
1.) Police Unions: Police departments across the country have become dependent on federal drug war grants to finance their budget. In March, we published a story revealing that a police union lobbyist in California coordinated the effort to defeat Prop 19, a ballot measure in 2010 to legalize marijuana, while helping his police department clients collect tens of millions in federal marijuana-eradication grants. And it’s not just in California. Federal lobbying disclosures show that other police union lobbyists have pushed for stiffer penalties for marijuana-related crimes nationwide.
American Democrat
Member
Wed Jan 20 08:01:43
"Such unions have lobbied against the good of the people for their own gain in favor of things like harsher sentences and against common sense drug reform."

This is patently false. Where it has been private prisons/jails with their alliance with lobbyists and certain lawmakers, many of whom were republicans, that advocated for longer sentences. Or when a person sentence is almost up; i.e. being released due to their 2 for 1's, probation, or parole, only to have them overturned, because more numbers equals more money.

Unions themselves have basically lobbied for reform due to the prisons and jails being overcrowded, which contributes to long shift hours, underpay, overworked, and the stress it comes with.

There have been Unions that lobbied for harsher sentences, but, it was basically for more violent crimes, but that pales in comparison to what you were trying to convey.

I will echo patom, this is a subject, along as many, that you have little to no knowledge to discuss other than an opinion.

American Democrat
Member
Wed Jan 20 08:05:19
Habebe,

You are being disingenuous. If you are going to quote, verbatim, you should provide the link of your source. And the source itself is questionable.

https://www.republicreport.org/2012/marijuana-lobby-illegal/
habebe
Member
Wed Jan 20 08:06:41
Ok, just deny facts...whatever.
habebe
Member
Wed Jan 20 08:09:01
http://www...i-marijuana-fight-2014-7%3famp

American Democrat
Member
Wed Jan 20 08:11:22
Actually, upon review of the thread. I do see that you did post the link. So, I will retract the part that you didn't provide the source.

However, on the topic of police unions, there is no doubt that generally there are that oppose this, as pointed out previous due to a source of revenue. But, this is also a topic that goes along with the concept of "defunding the police" that the rally cry has been tainted.

So, are you agreeing with that concept that it should be part of reform of police?

Now, since your critique, are you going to include the Pharmaceutical industry as well as they are more powerful?

American Democrat
Member
Wed Jan 20 08:14:20
It seems I am addressing points as you post.

But what facts am I denying? My argument was against a general statement based upon a instance that occurred in a state, while also clearly providing that there have and are unions that are for criminal justice reform.
habebe
Member
Wed Jan 20 08:15:06
Absolutely I will say that the Big Pharma has done this and much more harm.

And yes, ive openly said as well that many Republicans have aided these crimes against the people.
habebe
Member
Wed Jan 20 08:16:27
Ad, That criminal justice unions have played their role in lobbying for harsher sentences and against drug reform etc.
American Democrat
Member
Wed Jan 20 08:26:00
You have a split of unions, however. The unions that you reference are those with alliances with lobbyists and private corporations. But, you are also forgetting the organizations out there that advocate for CJ reform. I.e. LEAP, Law Enforcement Action Partnership

habebe
Member
Wed Jan 20 08:37:51
I'm sure ypur right on that, im not denying such.
murder
Member
Wed Jan 20 09:37:40

"But we have several videos of cops politely escorting these boomers on the Senate floor."

Forwyn, they were literally breaking down the door and smashing the windows on the doors that she was trying to climb through. There was also a very visible gun pointed at her that she chose to ignore.

murder
Member
Wed Jan 20 09:49:20

"The problem is not public unions ..."

Police unions are. They are the primary impediment to purging bad cops from police forces.


"Are you worried about the USMC union, or the FBI union, or the CIA union?"

US citizens rarely come into contact with the FBI or CIA or USMC ... and I don't even know if they have unions. But in the case of the FBI or any other law enforcement, yes I'm worried about it. The authority granted with a badge and a gun is ripe for abuse, and there needs to be zero tolerance for it. Unions exist to protect it's members.
jergul
large member
Wed Jan 20 09:52:31
murder
Finish the quote. It is a problem that you have local security forces.

I am strongly pro union, but agree that legacy clauses in collective agreements have to be unrolled.

Aka defund the police and start from scratch with rehires and new collective agreements.
murder
Member
Wed Jan 20 10:02:36

We can't help but have local security forces. We're a huge nation. Unless I'm simply not understanding what you mean.
habebe
Member
Wed Jan 20 10:19:40
Jergul often thinks that because centralizing something works in a nation the size of Fla will work on a Federation like the US.
jergul
large member
Wed Jan 20 10:24:44
Murder
I think 100 police forces in the US is more appropriate than 12000-18000 (depending on how you count) police forces.

murder
Member
Wed Jan 20 11:54:17

I don't understand why you think that Florida State Troopers would be preferable or any less violent or corrupt than Miami-Dade County cops or the City of Miami Police.

You'd just end up with a bunch of Northern Florida crackers in charge of policing large minority areas and not being accountable or responsive at all.
habebe
Member
Wed Jan 20 12:01:30
It's rare when I agree with Murder, but he is making sense.
patom
Member
Wed Jan 20 12:11:51
habebe, do you even think? As a former Shop Steward who had to sit through almost 2 years of negotiations with the County to get a contract renewal. I'll attempt to explain that the UNION has NO reward for more arrests. The Cops get NO reward for more arrests. The Corrections part of the deal has NO control or influence on who gets arrested, what they are charged with or what their sentencing is. Trying to negotiate even a small pay raise from the County Commissioners is like pulling Hippo teeth. Every contract is a battle of wills. The County to get the most for the least expenditure.

Maybe if you think of it this way. The county has a 100 bed jail. Their inmate population regularly exceeds that number of inmates by say 25 inmates. The cost to operate that jail goes up with each additional inmate. The work load for the CO's goes up. The food budget goes up. All of which reduces the amount of money that could be made available to give pay raises to Police or Corrections Officers.
Can you explain WHY Corrections Officers unions would lobby for longer sentencing? In light of the fact that the jails are already over crowded????
habebe
Member
Wed Jan 20 12:21:50
tom, Do you not understand that your end of the union work probably had nothing to do with union lobbying, doesnt mean that many of these unions do lobby for things?

Also, wouldn't go's want more of a workload? also known as job security....

You realize that we know for a fact many of these unions have spent millions lobbying against marijuana decriminalization for example. This is common knowledge.
habebe
Member
Wed Jan 20 12:28:41
http://rea...-prisons-or-public-unions/?amp

The California prison guards union, for example, poured millions of dollars to influence policy in California alone—it spent $22 million on campaign donations since 1989, more than CCA and GEO have combined, and continues to push for prison expansions. The National Fraternal Order of Police, meanwhile, spent $5 million on lobbying efforts since 1989, more than GEO did. That's not to mention the American Federation of State, County, and Municipal Employees, which includes a "Corrections Union" and lobbies on behalf of all kinds of policies that seek to turn citizens into revenue sources for public employees. They've spent $187 million on campaign donations since 1989, making a far stronger case to be labeled the biggest lobby nobody's talking about than private prisons.
jergul
large member
Wed Jan 20 14:14:57
habebe
So 880k a year mainly aimed at aleviating prison overcrowding in California?

I get that your source is into union bashing, but give me a break.
patom
Member
Wed Jan 20 15:30:33
habebe, "tom, Do you not understand that your end of the union work probably had nothing to do with union lobbying, doesnt mean that many of these unions do lobby for things?

Also, wouldn't go's want more of a workload? also known as job security...."

Hello there!!! Is anyone home??? In the few times we had less inmates than we had beds. The work was easier. The stress level drops in proportion with the lower numbers. In fact it wasn't too bad when we were just at capacity. We could segregate problem inmates, easier to monitor for situations. Safer for CO's safer for inmates.

Every State Prison in Maine is short handed and has mandatory OT. The only bright side is that when inmates reach the State Prison, they have already been adjudicated and know what their sentence is. They are sober and usually on some regimine of psych meds. (30+% or inmates need psychiatric care).

County Jails on the other hand get inmates fresh from the street. They come into the jail in pretty rough shape. Alcohol abuse, drug abuse, or just plain life abuse. They are anxious, angry, combative, and a few other conditions that are no fun to deal with. Many of them we have a history of and are somewhat familiar with their idiosyncrasies. Many we have no history on and they are a blank page. One where we have no idea what they are capable of. Lot's of things can go wrong at the most inopportune times.

You seem to have a problem with Unions lobbying. Funny thing though, I never hear you bitch about lobbying and political campaign money coming from big corporations. I'm not going to bother googling but go out on a limb and say that corporate lobbying and campaign donorship is staggering compared to what unions can muster. The only thing Unions have is a somewhat iffy ability to urge their members to vote one way or another.
Habebe
Member
Wed Jan 20 19:16:48
"You seem to have a problem with Unions lobbying. Funny thing though, I never hear you bitch about lobbying and political campaign money coming from big corporations"

Look up the thread a bit, Big Pharma has done plenty wrong to this country in the way of lobbying. An interestingtjing about WH lobbyists, Trump apparently didn't trust them and just about shut them out completely.

And if you read above the largest private prison companies spent WAY less than the unions in lobbying.

Your union may or may not have lobbied, I have no clue.

The fact that CJ unions do lobby extensively, and often in support of things like against drug reform and harsher sentences because it helps thwir bottom line.

You complain about OT, but that OT means more $ for the rank and file, its the job of a. Union.

Look at the AMA who caused who knows how many deaths lobbying against EMTs.Why? because it helped keep Doctors in demand, raising their income.

Unions can be a necessary evil to keep the workers from being exploited, im not denying that.
patom
Member
Wed Jan 20 20:10:52
Unions are only as good as their membership. The major problem today is that most union members have NO idea what the conditions were that brought about unions.

That being said. Just about every perk that people take for granted in this country. Whether they are union member or not. Comes from the efforts of Unions. The 40hr. week, Over time, vacation, health insurance, paid holidays, pension plans, job security, etc. etc.
People were killed and beaten and maimed to bring about Unions. If you hate unions then maybe you should go live in Mexico. or one of hte other countries with NO labor laws.
Habebe
Member
Wed Jan 20 20:22:47
Like I said, a necessary evil.I dont hate them. I just realize that they work on incentives.

They have their motives Sometimes they align with the public good, sometimes not.
Dakyron
Member
Thu Jan 21 12:14:26
We can bash police unions all we want(I would happily join in on some of it), but their contracts are negotiated and approved by elected city and county councils.

Blame them. They rubber stamp shit that a private company would quash immediately.
patom
Member
Thu Jan 21 12:52:01
Another thing that is just about if not all Police and Corrections union contracts.
There is a NO STRIKE clause. We didn't have the ability to walk off the job. Any pay raises or benefits packages that we got were hard fought for.
Dakyron
Member
Thu Jan 21 12:55:38
You were also free to walk off the job anytime and they get a very, very, very generous 20 year pension that you cannot find in any other walk of life.
patom
Member
Thu Jan 21 15:00:12
Individuals can walk off the job anytime they wish. That doesn't mean they will be welcomed back.
The National average career of a corrections officer is 5 years. There are a few that go 20+ years but not that many.
Rugian
Member
Thu Jan 21 15:04:33
Whats with the singular focus on police unions in this thread?

If anything, teachers unions are far more pernicious. Same thuggish tactics, same excessive powers...and unlike the police, they can strike if they don't get their way.

Get rid of them before the police unions, I say.
Habebe
Member
Thu Jan 21 16:36:00
Rugian, I would say the difference is the lobbying. Atleast for my part.

Many unions lobby for things that flat againat the overall good. but cj unions literally want to expand abducting people and enslaving them against their will, its a particularly harsh penalty for the public to pay.
patom
Member
Thu Jan 21 17:29:49
Habebe, what fucking planet are you from? Oh that's right. You are living in SC. The beautiful south. Where all the road side whore houses are owned by the local Sheriff and manned by vagrant women. BTW those Sheriffs Departments down there are NON UNION.

But please bring evidence that police are capturing innocent people off the street and enslaving them.
Habebe
Member
Fri Jan 22 01:21:17
Tom, That's literally common knowledge. There is that little clause in the constitution that allows slavery, if its punishment for a crime.

Chexk the 13th for for a cite.
Habebe
Member
Fri Jan 22 01:24:20
I mean I'm not sure how else you would frame shackling people against their will and locking them up in steel reinforced concrete rooms.

Im not saying again its not at times a necessary evil. But its literally the defignition of abduction and slavery.
patom
Member
Fri Jan 22 04:24:46
So are you actually saying that there are teams of police out there rounding up random people off the street?

Is this Q habebe?
Habebe
Member
Fri Jan 22 04:46:36
So your going to twist what I say?

And then try to be dismissive because its crazy?

I never said that. Yes of cops are abducting random ( implied innocent) people to enslave them.

Laws are.broken, the cops do their best to catch those law breakers and haul them off to jail.

The problem comes in when the unions they belong to push to lengthen sentences, keep harmless things like weed illegal to lock up more people and ***get more funding***etc.

jergul
large member
Fri Jan 22 04:58:38
Habebe
I think we have to move beyond arguing points to the absurd. An "abducted slave" perspective on prison sentences is absurd.

The formal term is ad absurdium fallacy.

Correction officer organizations wanting better conditions for their members is not a threat to the public good.

I agree that those organizations should not have positions on the legality of things, but can and should have positions on proper funding and prison overcrowding.

You have not established that correction officer unions have tried to influence criminal legislation.

Please do that before we continue. Though all we will say then is that the organization in question should not have done that.
Habebe
Member
Fri Jan 22 05:13:43
Jergul, Not absurd, its literally the law.

"Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime"

You can legally enslave people if they have committed a crime. The issue is what is considered a crime.

Clearly you would agree the US criminal jistice system is atrocious.

Ive provided several cites and examples. The example even showed just how much more lobbying they do then even the largest private prison companies. Nd you know how much hate the idea of privatizing jails/prisons.
Habebe
Member
Fri Jan 22 05:15:35
But whayever makes you feel better.

Placing people in shackles and locking them up against their will in small rooms, better?
jergul
large member
Fri Jan 22 05:25:37
hebebe
The amendment just says that not all types of mandatory labour is necessarily unconstitutional. The Geneva Convention specifies that POWs are required to work if their captors want them to. Not unconstitutional.

The links you provided did not demonstrate what you think they did. Find better source.

I think unions are part of the solution. Better working conditions for employees gives better conditions for inmates.

The prohibitive costs of doing that without criminal justice reform forces reform.

Habebe
Member
Fri Jan 22 05:36:03
If it makes you feel better, call it shackling and locking people against their will. Regardless its something that should be avoided as much as reasonable.


Of course you think unions are the solution.

And they COULD be.Some plrobably have already.

But you seem oblivious to the harm they can and have done as well.
Habebe
Member
Fri Jan 22 05:36:32
The problem with unions is the motives.
jergul
large member
Fri Jan 22 10:02:10
You are pointing to the wrong problems.

Unions protect prisoner abuse. That stems from their members having shit working conditions and the relative ease in which correction officers can find a new job at another prison.

Bad apples can barrel hop if found.
Dakyron
Member
Fri Jan 22 10:35:31
Its always criminals arguing so vehemently against the criminal justice system. Habebe admits he regularly committed theft, possession of controlled substance, etc... but then whines about his treatment.

Follow the law and you wont go to prison.

Dakyron
Member
Fri Jan 22 10:36:04
In a fair and just country, habebe would have never been let out.

Why do we tolerate crime?
patom
Member
Fri Jan 22 11:20:23
"
The problem comes in when the unions they belong to push to lengthen sentences, keep harmless things like weed illegal to lock up more people and ***get more funding***etc."

I believe you don't understand the process in the least.

First of all the Cops don't write the laws. The laws are written by the various State and Federal Legislators. Secondly the Police only arrest people who are breaking the laws enacted by the people elected to do their job.
The Police are not consulted on sentencing guidelines. If I recall California voted to enact the now infamous 3 strikes your in for life law.

Once the cops arrest someone they are brought to a jail. They are booked in and usually a bail is set. (Varies state to state). The arresting officer writes up his charges and leaves the jail ASAP.

The question of why they are arrested and if further adjudication is warranted, the District Attorney will determine that. Unless they are arrested for violation of conditions of release. Like bail for OUI, the conditions are carefully explained to the inmate. They agree to those conditions. If they choose to ignore them and get caught they will be brought back to jail and booked on the new charge of violation conditions of release. Then there is Probation violations. Once again if a convicted felon agrees to the conditions imposed on them and then breaks those conditions. They will be arrested and returned to jail to face the new charge.

The average Jail population it broken down into categories.
Pre-trial. Those are usually people arrested that are facing serious charges that can't raise bail money. They are awaiting their day in court.

Sentenced, in Maine only convicted Felons who are sentenced to 9 months and 1 day are sent to prison. Anyone sentenced to less including Felons and Misdemeanants will serve their time in County jails. If they qualify they can apply for jobs like Laundry, Kitchen, outside work details, etc. and are given time off their sentence.

The jail I worked in we averaged about 15% sentenced and the rest were pre-trial. Pre trial inmates were not permitted to work.

I'm doing this by memory and I'm sure I'm missing some of the finer details. It's been 10 years since I retired.

As far as shackling goes. That was done for our and their safety. Once they are inside the jail the shackles come off. I've had work crews out shoveling snow in the winter and they were trustees. Needless to say they weren't shackled. Needless to say they weren't murderers (we did have some in our jail). We didn't risk inmates being injured doing anything while hampered by being shackled.
I also had occasion to transport inmates. Standard operating procedure, ALL inmates are shackled while being transported. I won't go into the details of why. If you can't figure that out then I'm wasting my time.
Habebe
Member
Fri Jan 22 11:24:10
Dakyrkon,Simple possession shpuldnt be a crime. If a woman can have an abortion because its " her body" why cant I get high?

Paton, Im not sure your getting what Im saying. Because you keep bringing up hownthe rank and file do not write laws, thats obvious.But their unions DO lobby for and against laws and for and against politicians that will vote for things the unions want.
Habebe
Member
Fri Jan 22 11:29:04
I mean how crazy of a cointry is it where

You can kill a living creature that will turn into a human.

But until recently smoking a joint would incur locking people up in a cell.

That's crazy.

If I want to chop my dick off and get tits they will give me hormones legally.

If I want to get an edge in worrking out and take hormones, thats a crime.

We have more prisoners than ANY nation on earth, even those with MUCH higher populations.

People can legally profit from having other people locked up and for longer Thats crazy.
Habebe
Member
Fri Jan 22 11:32:41
Dakyrkon, As for my " self checkout discounts" I still less than a lazy employee. Workers who are not working are stealing company time, are they not? If I have to check myself out, I see no harm in a few discounts.

In N Philly its not even a real crime. Under like $500 the cops won't even come out...more rural places the amount is lower.
Dakyron
Member
Fri Jan 22 12:05:22
habebe - "Its ok for me to steal shit because other people are lazy"

WTF is that? People like you should be culled from the population.
patom
Member
Fri Jan 22 13:07:06
There are several states that have legalized Marijuana, Maine, Vermont, Colorado, etc. Pack yourself up and move if that is all you live for.

Either that or join or form a political PAC to lobby on your behalf. Go out and gather signatures to have a referendum put on the ballot to change the law in S.C.

But to lay the blame at the feet of some Corrections Union for every states laws? You are off the charts.
Habebe
Member
Fri Jan 22 13:22:55
Dakyrkon, So come cull me.

People eat grapes in a grocery store.No big deal, right? Why, ecause its not worth the expe se of calling the cops and prosecuting.

Mandy I pay $2 for a $60 extension chord....same deal, go cry over someones else grapes.

You would incarcerate the whole world.But your probably a pussy anyway who's afraid to get your hands dirty.

You were too chicken shit to confront a homeless guy from using your hose in person.
Habebe
Member
Fri Jan 22 13:33:10
Tom, Again your twisting my words.

1. Smoking pot is something I do mabey once a year. It's the principle.

2. I said some CJ unions have lobbied for this. Actually they are some of the biggest opponents of it.

MJ legalization is just an example. Its funny How they get paid to lock up pot smokers but they oppose it purely on moral grounds, not because it lets them profit from arresting more people.

Doesnt it bother you that we have more prisoners than China with a huge population advantage.

All pf a sudden they can do no harm because they happen to be a union and not " big business"

Thats horse shit.

Here is another example

http://www...pose-legalizing-marijuana/amp/

So who is in the wrong? Your buddy Cuomo or the police unions?
patom
Member
Fri Jan 22 17:21:20
LMAO, Corrections Officers profit off inmates.

China executes a shit load of their inmates. There is a pretty good market there for organs.

Does it bother me that we have more inmates than China? I have NO control over what China does.

Like I said if you don't like the laws we have. Campaign to have them changed or amended.
Forwyn
Member
Fri Jan 22 17:51:44
"But to lay the blame at the feet of some Corrections Union for every states laws?"

Organizations shouldn't be held accountable for their lobbying?
Habebe
Member
Fri Jan 22 23:01:28
Patom, If there were zero inmates, would they have jobs?
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Sat Jan 23 02:19:19
Dakyron
Those are harsh word. And yoy threw them like snither drinks a glass of water. Dark.
Forwyn
Member
Sat Jan 23 03:15:26
Can't we just have both worlds? Kill burglars and victimizers, and not cage MS patients with some pot plants?
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Sat Jan 23 03:34:36
Kill burgler? By that ruler, we should put internet trolls away for life. I mean they victimze a lot people.
Habebe
Member
Sat Jan 23 03:55:58
I remember doing research at the law library.I remember that having something like over 40 oz of cocaine was co sidered by the law equally as harsh of a crime as a kidnapper.

Then thinking to myself if I lived on a block and had the option of the new neighbor being a guy with a bunch of coke or someone who steals people, well thats an easy choice, I do not want to live anywhere near a people stealer, they are far worse.

It was on the PA felony grading chart.
Habebe
Member
Sat Jan 23 04:01:29
http://www...616&dpr=2#imgrc=2trAic97fOWozM

Here it is PWID 50-100 grams, level 10 alongside arson with a person in the structure and kidnappers.....thats insanity IMHO burning people alive and stealing people are some of the worst things someone can do.

I ask you this in your neighborhood would you rather have a neighbor with which secret.

1. They burn people in buildings

2. They have 2-4 ounces of cocaine.

3. They steal people and hold them captive.
show deleted posts

Your Name:
Your Password:
Your Message:
Bookmark and Share