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Utopia Talk / Politics / Once again the voice of reason
Habebe
Member
Mon Jan 25 05:46:48
http://youtu.be/9tocePyuzSI

OMG, you have a DEMOCRAT speaking put on them...BIPARTISAN....

Nah IDGAF, just always amazed on these boards how if Mitt Romney or some Republican youve never hewrd of says anything against Trump, the left is like " See, its bipartisan, 80 million Americans are just fringe cultists"

That said, she is still my favorite Democrat.
patom
Member
Mon Jan 25 05:55:54
So it's 80 million now? Is that per the election Nov. 2020? Or did the actions of Jan.6 attract another 7 or 8 million supporters.
Habebe
Member
Mon Jan 25 06:04:26
surely he has supporters that didnt go out to vote for him. But whatever 70 million, whatever.
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Mon Jan 25 06:17:06
They are not all fringe cultist, more than all 70 million think the election was stolen. That is the watershed moment of the who's who of the Trump cult. The stronger the belief, the more cultish the behavior. Well, I guess that flows in the other direction as well, the more cultish the person, the stronger the belief that "Dear leader" was robbed of a victory.

And according to the numbers, that's half of republican voters. So, half the republican party are now in a "cult". Not all of them will remain there as the days turn into weeks, many of them will leave the cult without intervention.
Habebe
Member
Mon Jan 25 07:21:43
Nimatzo, I still like Trump. Doesnt mean I think there was wide spread fraud enough to change election results.

Honestly, if anyone got screwed out of an election it would Bernie Sanders first and foremost.

I'm still looking forward to TrumpTV/Trumpnet if they ever come to fruition.
Renzo Marquez
Member
Mon Jan 25 07:58:56
Nimatzo
iChihuaha Mon Jan 25 06:17:06
"And according to the numbers, that's half of republican voters. So, half the republican party are now in a "cult"."

About half of Democrats believed that muh Russians hacked vote totals in 2016.
Renzo Marquez
Member
Mon Jan 25 08:00:24
Actually, about half is wrong. Should have said about 2/3 according to polling.
patom
Member
Mon Jan 25 08:00:33
I wonder how many of those 70 million still support Trump after Jan 6?
Habebe
Member
Mon Jan 25 08:50:36
Tom, At least from my personal anecdotal experience, henis as popular as ever with rank and file Republicans.
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Mon Jan 25 08:57:54
Habebe
Ok, but whatever you felt about Trump, the fact the his version of reality forked from yours on such a small "detail" of reality, should color what you think about him now. You should much less desirable as a leader. IMO.

Renzo
What about the democrats? What about them? Everything I am saying about "cult" behavior, I said in much greater detail about "SJWs" many years ago and as recently as this summer about anti-racism as a "religion". You are barking up the wrong tree and you add nothing of value with your post, you literally just say "what about the dems and muh russia hackz". With that you constructed the laziest form of whataboutism, one that fits in a dictionary.
Renzo Marquez
Member
Mon Jan 25 09:16:20
Nimatzo
iChihuaha Mon Jan 25 08:57:54
"Everything I am saying about "cult" behavior, I said in much greater detail about "SJWs" many years ago and as recently as this summer about anti-racism as a "religion". You are barking up the wrong tree and you add nothing of value with your post, you literally just say "what about the dems and muh russia hackz". With that you constructed the laziest form of whataboutism, one that fits in a dictionary."

You're very sensitive. Hormones fucked up? Which "wrong tree" do you believe I was barking up?
Rugian
Member
Mon Jan 25 09:18:38
Honest to God, the term "cult" is so ridiculously overused on this board.

You don't need to be in a cult to believe there's a need to investigate the integrity of the election results, given that we're in the middle of a pandemic and many states rolled out untested voting procedures and policies, including no-excuse absentee and proxy voting, for the first time ever.

You don't need to be in a cult to believe that the party that fights tooth and nail against even the most basic of voter id verifications may not be highly qualified to run clean and fair elections.

You don't need to be in a cult to believe that the media had zero interest in investigating claims of objection fraud, regardless of their merits, for reasons that were politically motivated. In fact, you don't need to be in a cult to believe that the media's obvious attempts to wash any sort of that talk is in and of itself proof that greater investigation by outside parties is warranted.

You don't need to be in a cult to believe that Chris Krebs isn't the be-all end-all authority on election integrity performance, despite the media's attempts to portray him as such.

Trump regularly exaggerates and plays loose with the truth, and he constantly hampers himself by having poor judgment in who he allows into his inner circle (Giuliani and Powell? Really?). That doesn't mean he doesn't often have a point (even if you have to parse through his word salad to get to it), and agreeing with him doesn't make one a cultist.
Rugian
Member
Mon Jan 25 09:27:44
But why should we be the ones playing defense. Nimatzo, to quote him directly, "hates" me now, not because I wronged him in some way, but because I wasn't dead-set against the orange man.

That's ACTUAL cult-like behavior. Severing ties with your close acquaintances is a common feature of cults.

Nim, your problem is that you're a part of a culture, its just a lot bigger and is usually not referred to as such. You have lost the capacity for independent thinking, you now just repeat whatever the media tells you.

I hope you find a way to get help, my friend.
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Mon Jan 25 09:36:37
Rugian
I can’t hate stupid.


RM
Maybe you are dumber than I gave you credit for. But Responding to my post about the cult of Trump with ”whatabout the dems”, as if I haven’t spoken at length about, is ”barking up the wrong tree”. Do you have amnesia?
Renzo Marquez
Member
Mon Jan 25 09:40:07
Nimatzo
iChihuaha Mon Jan 25 09:36:37
"Maybe you are dumber than I gave you credit for. But Responding to my post about the cult of Trump with ”whatabout the dems”, as if I haven’t spoken at length about, is ”barking up the wrong tree”. Do you have amnesia?"

You're interpreting my initial post in this thread an an attaq on you? Lulz. I didn't say anything bad about you. Check your stack for estrogen contamination.
Renzo Marquez
Member
Mon Jan 25 09:40:07
Nimatzo
iChihuaha Mon Jan 25 09:36:37
"Maybe you are dumber than I gave you credit for. But Responding to my post about the cult of Trump with ”whatabout the dems”, as if I haven’t spoken at length about, is ”barking up the wrong tree”. Do you have amnesia?"

You're interpreting my initial post in this thread an an attaq on you? Lulz. I didn't say anything bad about you. Check your stack for estrogen contamination.
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Mon Jan 25 09:43:27
Hey RM
Rugian also suffers from amnesia like you. It could be something in the water you drink. Boys, I can help that I can do a better job crticizing the ”left” and defend ”coservative” and ”rightwing” positions better than the both of you together. It’s not even a contest, I have read what you write. Sometimes our views align, sometimes they don’t, and when they don’t, Rugian specifically, he gets angry, says something racist and runs away from the discussion. It isn’t a testament to me being right, but that rugian is not very intelligent and emotionally unstable, or as his doctor calls it, ”retarded”.
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Mon Jan 25 09:47:06
RM
Pay attention, as a ”whataboutism”, it just happens your whataboutism, is barking up the wrong tree, there is no attack insinuated in the expression. Nothing about an ”attack” on me. I think you are overestimating the size of your dick, by quite a lot here.
Renzo Marquez
Member
Mon Jan 25 09:50:56
Nimatzo
iChihuaha Mon Jan 25 09:43:27
"Hey RM
Rugian also suffers from amnesia like you."

What are you asserting I've forgotten?

Nimatzo
iChihuaha Mon Jan 25 09:47:06
"Nothing about an ”attack” on me."

Then why are you cunting like a bitch?
Rugian
Member
Mon Jan 25 09:58:32
"and when they don’t, Rugian specifically, he gets angry, says something racist and runs away from the discussion."

Are you confusing me with jergul? He brings up your ethnicity far more often than I do.
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Mon Jan 25 10:00:08
RM
I will make a note for the future, that engaging with you in any manner is fruitless. You are stupid, confused and apparently not bound by any reason or logic. A free floating retard.
Renzo Marquez
Member
Mon Jan 25 10:01:25
Nimatzo, you claim I have amnesia. What do you believe I've forgotten?
Rugian
Member
Mon Jan 25 10:08:17
Nim clearly woke up on the wrong side of bed this morning. Someone's got a bad case of the MOHNDAYS.
Renzo Marquez
Member
Mon Jan 25 10:16:40
I just don't get it. I have no problem with him. Didn't intend to insult him. And my initial post was relevant to both this thread and his post.
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Mon Jan 25 13:06:28
Knowing how much you care if you insult people here, I want to put your consciouss at ease Renzo, I am not insulted by anything you say, or the racist things Rugian or anyone else has said. This is a ”safe space” for unsafe words.
Rugian
Member
Mon Jan 25 14:00:07
I, like, *really* don't know where the racism thing is coming from. Sure, every once in a blue moon I'll invoke the Iranian background thing, but thats really rare.
Rugian
Member
Mon Jan 25 14:00:07
I, like, *really* don't know where the racism thing is coming from. Sure, every once in a blue moon I'll invoke the Iranian background thing, but thats really rare.
Rugian
Member
Mon Jan 25 14:14:51
Is everything okay with you nimatzo?

I know you've been freaking out about Covid. I mean, we all are, but very few of us have your level of fear where you've written off the entirety of Western civilization as a failure for not containing it. Then you had that scare where you convinced yourself you were dying of a disease that (perhaps not coincidentally) also starts with the letter c.

I mean, it's pretty clear that you're a very worried man right now. And worried men are stressed out men, who end up doing and saying things that are not logical.

I do hope you get some help for your problems. I am not trolling here, I want to see my UP buddy nimatzo gets better, and not be perpetually thinking that his world is on the verge of ending.
Wrath of Orion
Member
Mon Jan 25 21:56:03
Please, plenty of racists remarks, comments, and stances through the years. If the shoe fits, wear it, shithead. Of course, you're also a bigot about other things, so it's not really a surprise.
Cherub Cow
Member
Mon Jan 25 22:56:47
[Rugian]: "Is everything okay with you nimatzo?"

Definitely some weird responses. Hopefully things okay.

..
[Rugian]: "Honest to God, the term "cult" is so ridiculously overused on this board."

And not just here. It's become a standard meme/thought — part of a vocabulary of totally dismissing one's opponent so that no effort has to be expended in looking further. The low-level discourse peeps refer to anyone supporting Trump or the GOP as being in a cult.

[Rugian]: "Severing ties with your close acquaintances is a common feature of cults."

That definitely applies. You should see Imgur, really. People get congratulated with front page publicity for declaring that they've "finally" stopped speaking to their GOP family members. That recent case of a daughter turning in her Capitol Building protest family was congratulated, despite the extreme parallels to the children of "1984" who were convinced by the party to turn in their own family members.

[Rugian]: "You don't need to be in a cult to believe that the media had zero interest in investigating claims of objection fraud, regardless of their merits, for reasons that were politically motivated. In fact, you don't need to be in a cult to believe that the media's obvious attempts to wash any sort of that talk is in and of itself proof that greater investigation by outside parties is warranted."

Did you see the George Stephanopoulos interview of Rand Paul?
[The News Junkie's Cartoons; January 24th, 2021]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ocqBb1IAY0

It's kind of a perfect summation of the voter fraud discourse. Rand presents actual facts of law-breaking that need to be investigated, but Stephanopoulos repeats the party-line of "no evidence" and "all cases dismissed", hoping that low-level DNC party-members will believe that line. Paul explains that the cases were not dismissed for lack of evidence but for courtroom standing (judges dismissed the cases without hearing any evidence). Comically, Stephanopoulos recognizes that some evidence does indeed exist, but he still thinks that no investigation should be done. Paul calls Stephanopoulos on Stephanopoulos insinuating that he's a liar, but Stephanopoulos tries to doublethink his way out of it by pretending that his "truth" is the absolute "truth" on the issue therefore no one should check his "truth". Pretty amazing stuff.
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Tue Jan 26 02:18:51
>>And not just here. It's become a standard meme/thought — part of a vocabulary of totally dismissing one's opponent so that no effort has to be expended in looking further. The low-level discourse peeps refer to anyone supporting Trump or the GOP as being in a cult.<<

Well, you and the other ”not Trump supporters” ONLY took notice when it started being used on Trumpicans. What’s good for the goose is good for the gander. You are not a hypocrite, are you? You wouldn’t have suddenly took issue with a word you were yourself nodding in agreement, when it was used on liberals as they were engaging in insane cult behavior?
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Tue Jan 26 03:09:38
”Rugian
Member Mon Jan 25 14:00:07
I, like, *really* don't know where the racism thing is coming from. Sure, every once in a blue moon I'll invoke the Iranian background thing, but thats really rare.”

I bet you don’t, but they color my view, of course. It doesn’t really reflect well on people when they say racist stuff and run away, from a discussion they previously very clearly shown they can not navigate and understand. I just mean it is hard to not take take them for signs of a man at his wits end. Or you are just full of shit trolling. And like the guy you totally didn’t vote for, it is difficult to know if you are born stupid or full of shit. It doesn’t matter in the short term, but in the long term I think you need to have a game plan. Are you going be buried with ”dear leader”?


It is cute, that you construct these strawmen about media and Trumps relationship with the truth, ergo ”admitting Trump has point doesn’t make you a cultists”. Yes we agree admitting Trump has a point about this or that, doesn’t make you a cultist. Believing some media have a bias against Trump and everything GOP doesn’t make you a cultist. It is, as if, I wasn’t clear when I said, the half that thinks the election was STOLEN are in a cult and that there is a correlation between how strong you believe in this and your personality traits.

Btw I am not a cult expert so I am using the word colloquially, you know the way it was used in yester year when you were laughing and high fiving each other over purple haired suptum ring SJWs screeching about hate speech on campus.

Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Tue Jan 26 03:11:08
Septum ring*
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Tue Jan 26 03:33:37
”Pretty amazing stuff.”

Totally. Is this related to what I am saying? Looking for the truh, is that why agent orange LEFT office with the narrative of a stolen election stronger than ever? Because that is the truth? I bet if I asked both of you, you would say ”I don’t think there is evidence there was widespread election fraud to change the outcome”. Something guarded like that. What you don’t understand/admit, is how divorced that is with the narrative Trump is continuing his life and movement with.

And just to tie it back to something I said about what anti-racism movement believes about our shared reality. If the election actually was stolen / if we actually live in a deeply racism system, I would be out in the fucking streets with molotov cocktails! We should all be out in the streets overthrowing the government if that was true, that is really something people should be energizes about. We should literally storm the capitol and bring the reponsible people to justice. But we don’t live in that system and the election wasn’t stolen.
jergul
large member
Tue Jan 26 05:29:05
Cult of personality is the only explanation for a movement that lacks other defining characteristics.
Senor Marquez
Member
Tue Jan 26 05:35:37
I'm really just a sensitive internet lawyer!
delude
Member
Tue Jan 26 06:42:07
Rugina

"You're using words too much, it causing my pussy to hurt"

to

AH/RM

"I can use whataboutism all I want, you can't judge me!"

I love the pseudo-fence sitters who pretend not to be part of the Trump "CULTISTS", but demonstrate the characteristics of being part of it. Shall we go down the list?

1. Believes election was a fraud. Check.
2. Doesn't consider the fractal 'coup' attempt an actual attempt. Check.
3. Supports the coup attempt, while still considers it not an attempt. Check.
4. Pussy gets hurt over any criticizing of Trump and always resorts to "...but look at what the dems/libs did." Check.
5. Support Qanon assertions and repeats their rhetoric. Check.
6. Thinks domestic terrorism isn't all that serious. Check.
7. Trump doesn't lie. Check.
8. Believes that the attack on Capitol is something normal 1776! Check.
9. Has a picture of Trump displayed somewhere to jerk off to it. Check. (Admittedly presumption, but most likely true.)

Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Tue Jan 26 07:21:12
A lot of mincing words these days that were being swollowed paragraphs at a time with no second thought yesterday. You can blame me for hyperbole today, as seb was blaming me with years ago. I am consistent, in that case. And considering present company, the distinguished gentlemen who are familair with meme culture, what is the fucking deal, bro? I am not the one acting insulted here. I don't care about your opinion and I am neither deranged nor warped by the orange man. He was pretty much a clueless moron the whole time, and sometimes by accident he did somethings right. Part of his appeal seems to be that regardless of what a shitbag you think you are, he is worse and "winning". i.e he is no better than you, almost regardless of who "you" are. He really isn't.
habebe
Member
Tue Jan 26 09:50:40
http://youtu.be/TlIqrtVxahQ

Well, IDK what this thread morphed into...TLDR.

But once again Tulsa put there making lots of sense and being still like the sole voice of reason.
delude
Member
Tue Jan 26 10:07:09
No, no she isn't.

1. Good for her to acknowledge enemies attacking capitol.

2. You cannot equate measures to monitor terrorism and conduct investigations and label them as such as being "far worse" than the actions that individuals took to thwart the constitutional duties of congress.

3. Her position is a cop-out highlighting the civil liberties argument while under the guise of being law & order, which would be the appeal to the republican base. (yes, aware she is a democrat).

4. Big tech does not give a fuck about your feelings as they continue to operate using the strong capitalistic principles.

No, not a "sole voice of reason."
habebe
Member
Tue Jan 26 11:38:04
"You cannot equate measures to monitor terrorism and conduct investigations and label them as such as being "far worse" than the actions that individuals took to thwart the constitutional duties of congress."

So if in the process of " monitoring terrorism" they could and likely will thwart the constitution and doing so with a better armed and organized group of militant actors.

Big tech is monopolistic, protected by government.
jergul
large member
Tue Jan 26 12:08:30
Yah, a damned shame goverment tried to crush Huawei citing undocumented security concerns.
habebe
Member
Tue Jan 26 12:25:48
Jergul, Foreign actors of an enemy state.A state that just a few days ago flew bombing patrols over a sovereign territory protected by us ( Taiwan)

Bombing raids aimed at attacking US troops/ACC's.

Cause, yeah thats the same.as libertarians.
habebe
Member
Tue Jan 26 12:25:48
Jergul, Foreign actors of an enemy state.A state that just a few days ago flew bombing patrols over a sovereign territory protected by us ( Taiwan)

Bombing raids aimed at attacking US troops/ACC's.

Cause, yeah thats the same.as libertarians.
jergul
large member
Tue Jan 26 15:58:37
Habebe
You wanted examples of actual government protecting big tech, then that is one.

The bluster you cited as justification is of course silly. Great powers practice for all kinds of contingencies.

Fine that you favour protectionism, but why not just say that?

Otherwise, its just a case of government not getting involved in using leglislation to dismantle monopoliies.

Tell me when you think it is time for the US government to start taking US companies apart, mkay?

Because that is what what you want done once the window dressing of waah freedum is striped away.
Habebe
Member
Tue Jan 26 16:33:33
"Fine that you favour protectionism, but why not just say that?"

Trade legalities. Its easier to just claim what the chinese have.

"The bluster you cited as justification is of course silly. Great powers practice for all kinds of contingencies."

China is an enemy state, our Carthage.

That said I definitley think big tech needs to be taken apart. Some of big retail as well.
Habebe
Member
Tue Jan 26 16:35:01
That said, I still wouldn't trust an enemy states media/tech companies....arms length.
jergul
large member
Tue Jan 26 23:40:10
More platitudes the justify big government protecting your big tech companies.

It really is quite unhinged.
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