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Utopia Talk / Politics / Trump's Impeachment Constitutional
Tue Feb 09 19:00:39
Senate Declares That Trump's Impeachment Trial Is Constitutional


No doubt the Trumpicantards who are also known as traitors are in shock!
Tue Feb 09 19:11:50
*50 America-hating Democrats, plus 6 RINOs looking to retire or get primaried, declared the trial is constitutional.

Or are we suddenly pretending that the majority of the chamber (on either side) votes based on principle rather than politics?
Tue Feb 09 19:18:39
The same Senate that will aqquit him...yawn.
Tue Feb 09 19:57:50
Yeah, gop rinos voted yes today so they looks nonpartisan when they vote no on impeachment later. Basically playing both sides. Like, ya know, politicians.
werewolf dictator
Tue Feb 09 20:41:08
it's also constitutional to impeach a ham sandwich

but political hacks would just make themselves look ridiculous if they can't get conviction
Tue Feb 09 20:50:12
ham sanwitch cunt be impeeched it knot uh pursin
Tue Feb 09 21:55:08
They are wasting time with this because they didn't think they were going to win the Senate and they do not have a plan moving forward. This impeachment gives them time to develop some type of agenda other than former President Trump. I'm sure whatever they eventually come up with will be a disaster but one can hope for a pleasant surprise.

Bet on disaster though.

The other possible reason is keep the press busy with impeachment while they put a shit ton of unrelated crap in a relief bill. THey are hoping the press will keep the public occupied while they pass through a really bad bill.

I'm going with the first option. The we don't have a clue what we are doing let's impeach Trump again theory.
large member
Wed Feb 10 00:53:05
Yepp, it seems a long bet that 17 GOP senators will grow a set and put the long term health of the party ahead of their personal interests.

But it still is the right strategy for democrats to appeal to the better angels of their nature.

The long term damage of non conviction leaves voter supression as the only viable path to power for the party of Trump.
large member
Wed Feb 10 00:54:49
Thing is, a lot of Trump's base is vulnerable to typical voter suppression that hits minorities. We will see how it plays out as you continue to plunge down the spiral.
Wed Feb 10 05:59:00
If Trump wins on the grounds that he is no longer POTUS, can this guy use the same defense?:
Wed Feb 10 06:03:07
jergul, Trump's base is 98% white. Mostly poor and trump doesn't mind using them as cannon fodder.
Cherub Cow
Wed Feb 10 07:58:01
[David Schoen; Trump defense lawyer]: “They are willing to sacrifice our national character to advance their hatred and their fear that one day, they might not be the party in power. They have a very different view of democracy and freedom from Justice Jackson, who once wrote, ‘Our freedom to differ is not limited to things that do not matter much — that would be a mere shadow of freedom. The test of its substance is the right to differ as to things that touch at the heart of the existing order.’

“They have a very different view of democracy and freedom. This is nothing less than the political weaponization of the impeachment process. Pure raw sport fueled by the misguided idea of party over country when in fact both will surely suffer.

“I can promise you that if these proceedings go forward, everyone will look bad. You will see and hear many members of our Congress saying and doing things they must surely regret. But perhaps far worse than a moment of personal shame in a world in which history passes from our memories in a moment: our great country, a model for all the world, will be far more divided, and our standing around the world will be badly broken. Our arch enemies who pray each and every day for our downfall will watch with glee, glowing in the moment as they see you at your worst and our country in internal divide.

“Let’s be perfectly clear, if you vote to proceed with this impeachment trial, future senators will recognize that you bought into a radical constitutional theory that departs clearly from the language of the Constitution itself and holds — and this is in their brief — that any civil officer who ever dares to want to serve his or her country, must know that they will be subject to impeachment long after their service in office has ended, subject only to the political and cultural landscape of the day that is in operation at any future time. This is exactly the position taken by the House managers at page 65 of their brief. Unprecedented, radical position — they unabashedly say so. Imagine the potential consequences for civil officers you know and who you believed served so honorably but in the view of a future Congress might one day be deemed to be impeachment-worthy. Imagine it now because your imagination is the only limitation.”
Wed Feb 10 08:51:06
The test for whether Trump should be convicted is a simple one. Is conviction a typical punishment for people who have engaged in similar behavior as Trump did?

For the record, what Trump "did" was egg on a clearly excitable protest crowd, which subsequently (and predictably) descended into a riot. Despite explicitly calling for the protesters to remain peaceful, his rhetoric played a role in causing the crowd to turn violent.

If that is a convictable offense, then Trump should be convicted. And so should a whole host of Democratic senators and Representatives, together with state govenors and city mayors, who all contributed to the violence and destruction that we've witnessed over the past few years. They all need to be convicted and barred from office.

Otherwise conviction is inappropriate. Trump should not be held accountable for engaging in rhetoric that has become commonplace in the political sphere.

If Chuck Schumer gets convicted, I'm happy to see Trump convicted as well. Until then...no.
Wed Feb 10 08:56:11
Here for example is Chuck Schumer, speaking in front of a rally, using incendiary language to threaten two Supreme Court justices if they don't vote the way the crowd likes:


What in all honesty did Trump do differently from that?
Wrath of Orion
Wed Feb 10 09:12:10
Ah Rugian, so delusional and detached from reality as always.
Wed Feb 10 09:15:21
Great rebuttal, as always.
Wed Feb 10 09:47:51
"Or are we suddenly pretending that the majority of the chamber (on either side) votes based on principle rather than politics?"

Well that depends, are we pretending this insight about how useless democracy can become, emerged in 2021? Maybe some people realized this for the first in 2021? At least for 15 years, we have known.

It is easier to take these micro epiphanies as PRINCIPLED, if they were occuring when someone you like/support/voted for is in office. Otherwise it becomes "it was only fun when "we" did it".

You remember Obama? I really liked that guy, I was mesmerized by him and would have voted for him. Somewhere along this trip, probably between Libya and Syrian and all the other places Obama bombed and people he droned, I was red pilled. I stopped being interested in having politicized discussion about specific issues. It isn't that I don't have political convictions or that I am coy about where I stand on specific issues, but all of those discussions become meaningless to me when I see that the system in which all these ideas and discussions exist in, has become a garbage producer. You put in effort, passion and good intentions and the system produces garbage.

Ceterum autem censeo... you should stop voting.
Cherub Cow
Thu Feb 11 05:58:08
[Rugian]: "The test for whether Trump should be convicted is a simple one. Is conviction a typical punishment for people who have engaged in similar behavior as Trump did?"

(Sarcasm ahead)
Now, Rugian, you're clearly not abiding by the narratives of your corporate overlords.

Firstly, you have to know that all those not in the DNC mega-complex are definitionally Nazis (not even Neo-Nazis; that distinction has collapsed as well — *literally* Nazis), fascists, racists, Russian assets, and sub-human idiots. I know that in the '90s Internet-people were ridiculed mercilessly for sinking so quickly to Godwin's Law in debates, but that is now the starting point; DNC opposition begins under these labels. And every single one of them, by the way. If you disagree with this fallacy of association grounded in a false premise, I have some very convincing memes to show you. It's important to understand this at the outset because it informs all subsequent behaviors and thoughts towards these sub-human scum.

Next, you have to accept that the only truth comes from the DNC mega-complex. This means that everything they said about Trump was correct, even the things that they retracted or which were disproved. So Trump is absolutely a Russian asset who was cultivated in the '80s and activated once he got the nuclear codes. Trump is also super racist (and refer to all labels above).

Next, BLM was correct to cause property damage in >500 cities across the United States and attack federal buildings including the White House because — given that Hitler-Trump was enabling his fellow literal Nazis/fascists/etc. — they were clearly fighting for "racial justice" against "systemic racism". And systemic racism totally exists. Get on board. If you're not on board, I'd be happy to show you a picture of a redneck wearing a Confederate-flag cape doing a fascist salute. I also have some case studies from backwards police departments in Kentucky or wherever that I'd like you to extrapolate to all police departments everywhere and all non-DNC citizens by extension. #ACAB

Next, you have to accept that there was no voter fraud or election manipulation/engineering at all anywhere in the entire United States. Now, I know that lots of things look suspicious and that there have been hours and hours of testimony showing that independent investigations should be held, but trust DNC media on this one. Lots of judges ruled on the Trump efforts to prove otherwise, but those cases found no evidence. Now, you may say that none of those cases were actually allowed to present any evidence at all to judges in any kind of evidence-based court proceeding and that instead every case was dismissed by prejudiced judges on procedural grounds, but I would refer you back to the above statement that no evidence was found. (See, if I repeat, "No evidence was found," without acknowledging the procedural suppression of evidence, then we can together believe that indeed no evidence exists.). This will allow you to believe that indeed this was a fair election where the unified will of the people was established by the "installed" (to quote the great Ginsburg) Chairman Biden. With that belief, you will be able to read the "Time" magazine article about election engineering by the DNC mega-complex with the air of benevolence that it intended for its appreciative audience ("The Secret History of the Shadow Campaign That Saved the 2020 Election"; February 4th, 2021; http://time.com/5936036/secret-2020-election-campaign/ ). While this article confirms the narratives used against the DNC mega-complex, it is okay to confirm because the mega-complex knows what is right for the people. (♫ There's something comforting in the stranglehold of a shepherd's crook ♫)

Next, even though Trump kept saying things like "peacefully" and "go home in peace", the DNC mega-complex would like you to pay attention to the highlighted text instead (e.g., this post-Capitol-event Tweet/image that was highlighted and used on the Senate floor during February 9th's hearing, http://i.imgur.com/RT8hIEb.png ). You must thus take it as a given that Trump did indeed "incite" an "insurrection" and a "coup" and that a "fair election" was disrupted by this "seditious" Hitler. And remember that Hitler too attempted such a "coup" only to return to become the "Kung Führer" ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHSYGrXIqzo ), so it's super important to prevent him from running again.

Lastly, with all of the above narratives established so thickly in the DNC mega-complex, it stands to reason that there exists no need for ideological consistency. Hypocrisy and double standards can be forgiven. We in the DNC hivemind do not even need to worry about a sham trial setting a precedent which will annihilate us in kind. You see, the Kung Führer is too great an enemy to be beaten through the virtuous machinations of a republic — "criminals thrive on the indulgence of society's understanding". While it's true that living by the slogan "the end justifies the means" results in corrupted ends, we do not see our corruption as problematic because we know better than the vermin you call "citizens".

And this is only the first step. If you accept these narratives into your heart, you may also permit us to take further steps which ensure that only the One True Party will ever rule again. Let us abolish the senate, pack the Supreme Court, eliminate the electoral college, add loyalist territories as states, and remove all remaining restrictions on verified voting. In fact, why do citizens need to vote at all? We in the Inner Party see that citizens only add to the carbon footprint, which is why the most gracious among us will ourselves step into purifying fire willingly and happily! For the world to be built back better, it must be built for fewer thoughts, which is why we must first eliminate your voices from discourse. Only with one voice can we decide the fate of empire.
large member
Thu Feb 11 06:41:44
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