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Utopia Talk / Politics / AOC lying her ass off...again
Rugian
Member
Sat Feb 13 14:32:56
AOC on January 28:

"[Replying to Ted Cruz]: I am happy to work with Republicans on this issue where there’s common ground, but you almost had me murdered 3 weeks ago so you can sit this one out.

Happy to work w/ almost any other GOP that aren’t trying to get me killed.

In the meantime if you want to help resign."

-------

Fast forward to February 8:

"@AOC when asked about her exact quote [about Ted Cruz trying to have her murdered]: "Yeah, so that's not the quote and I will not apologize for what I said."

http://mob...nTV/status/1358873678063276035
Rugian
Member
Sat Feb 13 14:35:24
Daily reminder that jergul believed this skank's account where she baselessly slandered a United States Capitol Police officer.

Jergul, I get that something in your personality makes you very protective of young women, but this broad ain't worth it.
Sam Adams
Member
Sat Feb 13 14:43:54
What a dumb slut.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Sat Feb 13 16:28:55
it wasn't the quote

that guy says "he TRIED to have you murdered"... as in active intent

way worse than "you almost had me murdered 3 weeks ago" (by his actions in joining Trump's lies)

AOC is correct
superdude
Member
Sat Feb 13 16:54:01
AOC is never correct but Ted Cruz is a douche.
Forwyn
Member
Sat Feb 13 19:56:39
Lol @ tw
habebe
Member
Sat Feb 13 20:30:39
So the argument is against tried and almost as terms.

It isnt exactly the same, so is she claiming that Ted almost got her killed by accident?
Cherub Cow
Member
Sat Feb 13 21:04:30
No, she's claiming that she *was* killed and is now a ghost ( http://bab...e-capitol-riots-and-is-a-ghost ).
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Sat Feb 13 21:26:43
if she was saying Ted tried to kill her she’d be filing criminal charges

she is saying his actions contributed to putting her in harms way, which is just true... (or please provide an alternate theory for what created the riotous mobs anger besides team Trumps bullshit poisonous campaign to undermine all faith in the election)
habebe
Member
Sat Feb 13 21:39:55
So the ckaim is he inadvertently riled people up that tried to kill her....bit of stretch to then refuse to talk to fellow congresspeople.
Dukhat
Member
Sat Feb 13 22:04:56
Yeah, cuckservatives will never miss a chance to exaggerate and attack a woman. They love to project their deep insecurities.
habebe
Member
Sat Feb 13 22:16:02
Weren't you attacking an actress yesterday for saying beep bop boop while defending a man advocating child murder because they wore mage hats?
kargen
Member
Sat Feb 13 22:17:47
She wasn't in harms way. She was confused and now is trying to keep in the spotlight.

and Trump inspired them so much they couldn't even be bothered to vote for him. He didn't inspire that riot any more than you did.
Cherub Cow
Member
Sat Feb 13 22:40:35
[habebe]: "So the ckaim is he inadvertently riled people up that tried to kill her....bit of stretch to then refuse to talk to fellow congresspeople."

Yeah, it's an absurdity and a pretty thin narrative, but the misinformation was designed to cascade into total unreason.

The DNC–Media–Corporate alliance starts with the lie that BLM protests were excusable for their violence, proceed with the lie that Trump supporters are all violent Nazi insurrectionists [and various buzz-word identifiers designed to disband rational discourse], omit all the nuance about Ted Cruz seeking legal means and peaceful requests for evidence-based evaluations of the very real election issues that occurred (and which were confirmed by "Time" magazine as benevolent), run instead with the narrative that the very idea of election fraud/irregularity constitutes incitement, ignore the accumulating double standards and intellectual inconsistency that implicates the DNC under these new terms ("[There is no tomorrow! At all costs the "Nazis" must be defeated today!]"), and then we have the cascaded false narrative of "inciting insurrection" within which anyone who mentioned anything about election fraud or irregularities is automatically a "treasonous" "instigator". It's why the mob has identified Ted Cruz and Rand Paul as enemies of democracy (Imgur's ignorant vitriol has been quite amped against these two); to the mob, all of Cruz's and Paul's calls for constitutional observation of laws is a threat to.. the Constitution. Yeah. Doublethink ftw.

By destroying the legal definition of incitement, the flood gates open to total intellectual dishonesty. That's why it's good for the DNC to abandon the sham trial now; if they paraded witnesses and had to continue facing the legal definitions of pertinent words (legal definitions that they cannot change.. yet), then they would be completely dismantled in the forced good-faith arguments of process. But their goal was not truth, it was further manipulation of the narrative. Now they have cultivated a belief in their low-level discourse supporters that Trump incited a mob and it was only those pesky and "dishonest" GOP candidates that kept Trump from facing accountability. The DNC mega-structure intends to ride this into 2022 to flip seats and consolidate more power.. if they can keep controlling the narrative, anyways.
Dukhat
Member
Sat Feb 13 22:49:08
Noone read that. Back to old white people twitter with you.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Sat Feb 13 23:46:12
"and Trump inspired them so much they couldn't even be bothered to vote for him. He didn't inspire that riot any more than you did."

you are absolutely insane

please explain the origin of their frothing mad mindset in attacking cops & breaking windows to invade the Capitol during the electoral college certification


---

as for Cruz, he was disingenuously supporting Trumps effort, as he's filth, but nevertheless it was support... he offered to present that absurd Texas case (that had easily disproven assertions) direct to the supreme court (which aimed to knowingly trash millions of legit votes) plus Cruz was one of the senators lined up to object to electoral college votes

if you objected to the changes to voting laws for covid, it should be resolved WELL BEFORE voting, or only corrected in the future, NOT trashing millions of votes you know were cast by completely legit voters who were just following the rules given

oh, and you just happen to know trashing those votes will swing the vote to your preferred candidate... but i'm sure that's got nothing to do with it...

(& one dick was objecting over drop boxes... not the mail-in voting changes in PA as the legislature DID approve it... just the drop boxes... something less convenient to use than a mailbox, which were only used as the mail WAS slow)

totally bad faith bullshit & crazily anti-democratic (wanting to trash millions of knowingly legit votes)
habebe
Member
Sat Feb 13 23:54:08
"please explain the origin of their frothing mad mindset"

I read that most/many of them had suffered large financial setbacks recently.History has shown time and time again desperate people do desperate things.

Why did BLM destroy covid testing sites? Did politicians encourage them?
kargen
Member
Sun Feb 14 00:55:20
"please explain the origin of their frothing mad mindset in attacking cops & breaking windows to invade the Capitol during the electoral college certification"

Frustration over several years? Wasn't Trump that much is obvious.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Sun Feb 14 01:34:01
"Wasn't Trump that much is obvious. "

no need for us to ever speak again... (although i may have said that before...)
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Sun Feb 14 02:07:21
to no one in particular

...good luck explaining the 'hang mike pence' & 'stop the steal' chants...
jergul
large member
Sun Feb 14 03:04:45
So, its actually Ruggy lying his ass off again. So despicable and unforgivable. This means we should always believe the opposite of what Ruggy says every time.
Cherub Cow
Member
Sun Feb 14 03:17:52
[tw]: "if you objected to the changes to voting laws for covid, it should be resolved WELL BEFORE voting, or only corrected in the future,"

That was the DNC strategy, yes. Their plan was to break state Constitutions at such a point that election lawyers would not have time or standing to dispute them beforehand and would have their hands tied by process when the illegal moves had already been made. When these broken laws were brought to GOP attention, they had days to mount defenses before court deadlines. When brought before the courts, the judges were able to dismiss all evidence without considering the evidence itself because of the Catch-22 systems that the DNC had manipulated into place (I.e., the judges could say, "[You should have filed earlier. But you were not allowed to file earlier. You're allowed to file now, but I'm allowed to dismiss without review now.]"

The metaphor that's making the rounds is that the election was "Ocean's 11"ed; the DNC broke laws months before the election (where the real steal took place). Whereas Trump election lawyers were paying attention to the ballots themselves, the laws had been changed to make the illegal actions of the DNC into (somewhat) legal actions. "Somewhat", because that's what Rand Paul and Ted Cruz have pointed out: those law changes were illegal and against state Constitutions. The damage that the DNC did to the election process now needs to be repaired for 2022 and beyond.

..
[tw]: "...good luck explaining the 'hang mike pence' & 'stop the steal' chants..."

Neither of those statements would be admissible in court as anything but protest chants — not direct calls for action. BLM was similarly able to get away with protest chants such as, "Burn this mother down" because it can be taken as symbolic language — even when things really do get burned down. BLM was also able to get away with putting a guillotine outside of the White House and staging a Trump dummy for decapitation due to the same protections on speech and intent. The FB1 would need a specific actionable and imminent target and a specific causality for those charges to stick.

"Stop the steal" has its own symbolic protections; "stop" in a protest can simply mean, "protest the steal". Even referring to the election as a "steal" is protected. For those terms to lose their protections in court (i.e., where it matters) would require burdens of proof similar to the FB1 having to make direct connections between the terms that mafia members used and their hidden meaning (e.g., "take care of" for "kill"). This cannot be done in a general sense. Lawyers cannot build proof by saying, "Trump said, 'Steal,' so a mob stormed the Capitol Building." That's not proof. They would need to find Trump specifically saying that "stop" meant, "Literally break into the Building and attack Congress to prevent them from carrying out their duties on the floor," *and* that he communicated this hidden meaning to the mob. This is incredibly difficult to do because they cannot simply draw a line between Trump and a mass of people; they have to go to the level of language and establish an explicit cypher that can be decoded correctly by both sides of the conversation. Simply saying, "He probably knew what they'd do" is not admissible in court, especially since he continually emphasized peaceful protest.

No such connections were established in the sham trial. The DNC leaders were so desperate for "evidence" that they even showed screenshots from *after* the event as "evidence" of a plan, such as Stacey Plaskett posting a TheDonald.win meme of the Capitol Building.. a meme which was posted *on* January 6th. And her "connection" was the *assumption* that the White House was monitoring all social media.. that they were even monitoring this meme which her own screenshot admitted only had 12 comments when she harvested it in February ( http://i.d...9-image-a-50_1612988998144.jpg ).

At the end of the day, the only people who should be charged will be those who had specific and actionable plans for the Capitol. Even in a conviction those people would have to exhibit deluded thinking to claim that they were somehow ordered by Trump to make their plans.
Habebe
Member
Sun Feb 14 03:23:42
"That was the DNC strategy, yes. Their plan was to break state Constitutions at such a point that election lawyers would not have time or standing to dispute them beforehand and would have their hands tied by process when the illegal moves had already been made. When these broken laws were brought to GOP attention, they had days to mount defenses before court deadlines. "

CC, Im.not saying your wrong here but I did a reasonable amount of research into what the Dems did about rule changing and manipulating the courts to keep out the greens etc.

I appeared to me that Reps more often than not dropped the ball/drug their feet than they only had days to challenge.Perhaps I missed some, but PA for example seemed to be the Reps dropping the ball IIRC.
Cherub Cow
Member
Sun Feb 14 04:00:23
[Habebe]: "I appeared to me that Reps more often than not dropped the ball/drug their feet than they only had days to challenge."

It's a little difficult to parse exactly. The timelines were certainly only on the scale of days. The GOP had cases lined up across several states in a very compressed window, which meant dividing a small pool of lawyers across various jurisdictions — much more involved than sending everyone to Florida like in 2000. Their drafts definitely *looked* rushed, given poor formatting errors and spelling issues in some cases (almost like an intern was told, "[print whatever you have right now because we have to file this in court in an hour].")

So I think it's a matter of prioritization. With the DNC actively changing laws across multiple states, the GOP was left plugging holes in a sinking boat, unaware of where the biggest holes were. That meant ignoring some issues for too long while hyper-focusing on others. So they dropped the ball because they were rushed and spread out.

..
[Habebe]: "PA for example seemed to be the Reps dropping the ball IIRC."

That makes a good example. The Pennsylvania election hearing had hours of testimony that were pretty damning to DNC actions ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8-TahzO7CQ ), but the appeals court were able to drop the entire issue, saying, "This case is not about whether those claims are true" ( http://www2.ca3.uscourts.gov/opinarch/203371np.pdf ).

It goes on to mention that the GOP lawyers had rushed to file by November 23rd, having to drop a number of their complaints to streamline their arguments (p10). The courts then considered it an undue burden that the courts should be expected to go through the evidence before their own deadlines (p10–11), but they also granted the GOP no stay for extra time (p17). They also go on to say that because so many ballots were problematic, it would mean throwing out millions of ballots.. so they wouldn't do it (p20). Meaning, yes, the problem ballots could overturn the election, but overturning the election would alienate voters.. which is a partisan opinion, given that the other perspective is that winning an election with problem ballots included can alienate voters.

They also say, "We will not make more of ballot technicalities than Pennsylvania itself does," which indirectly means that because the DNC is in power in Pennsylvania and has no problem with the outcome, that the courts have no problem with the outcome. Yeah. So the short version was that the courts ruled that problem ballots and verified ballots would be counted together with no distinction given between them, and the GOP would not be permitted time to organize and present their evidence.
Habebe
Member
Sun Feb 14 04:57:32
CC, Fair enough, just one point of clarification, the dems are in the governorship, and I think* much of the courts but not the legislature, at least prior to the election, im not sure now.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Sun Feb 14 12:04:00
"Neither of those statements would be admissible in court as anything but protest chants "

i'm referring to krazy kargen thinking Trump had no more responsibility for that riot than anyone, not about proving incitement

however, on incitement, criminal court has no bearing... impeachment is only about losing your job (& preventing you from getting the job again, although that would've been a separate vote)... he faced no prison or fines

even Mitch said obviously Trump was 100% the cause for why those people there (& no reason to think Mitch lying, it's obvious Trump was why those people there)... Trump pushed rigged election in his 2016 primary, in the 2016 general, in the 2018 midterms, & of course all year long 2020... including ramping it up massively after losing w/ dozens of tweets a day on any claim of fraud no caring about source or credibility or if already discredited (barely ever talking about the changed laws part that was the only real push in courts, Trump was nearly always on fraud claims)... he was -definitely- the most massive spreader of it begin 'stolen' (w/ his allies helping spread)

also, Trump -obviously- the reason they were angry at Pence, repeatedly for days saying Pence could stop the process all by himself (even though surely told he couldn't in private)... absurd he -ever- said it, and more absurd he -kept- saying it (even after rioting had begun for that matter).

so kargen is completely crazy on thinking Trump had zero effect... as to whether you find Trump criminally responsible, i don't care... it was worthy of impeachment for certain

undermining faith of tens of millions in our elections with NO CONCERN OF FACTS is pretty damn inappropriate for the 'president'... as well as so much else he did
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Sun Feb 14 12:20:26
amongst Trump's multitude of tweets of vans of ballots, & Dominion changing votes, & heaps of dead voters, & all the other fraud claims (that never panned out) was an article with:

"
The “Kraken” is a Department of Defense-run cyber warfare program that tracks and hacks various other systems to acquire evidence of nefarious actions by the deep state! President Trump and the loyal patriots in the Military and Space Command now have all the evidence of voter fraud and election related treason. This will be used against the enemies of America!

What we are witnessing with the 2020 elections is NOT an election. We are witnessing the attempt of the overthrow of the United States Government. The CIA, FBI and DOJ are full of Treasonous Swamp Rats that are intent on stealing the Presidential seat, and taking over over America for the global order.
"
(and it went on w/ more crazy shit, multiple countries involved, etc)


--------------
totally reasonable post by the 'president'?

he wasn't focused on court cases w/ any legitimate good-faith concerns

that would require learning information
kargen
Member
Sun Feb 14 13:44:11
"Anyone you want, but I think right here, we’re going to walk down to the Capitol, and we’re going to cheer on our brave senators and congressmen and women, and we’re probably not going to be cheering so much for some of them.

Because you’ll never take back our country with weakness. You have to show strength and you have to be strong. We have come to demand that Congress do the right thing and only count the electors who have been lawfully slated, lawfully slated.

I know that everyone here will soon be marching over to the Capitol building to peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard."

He is responsible in part for the protests. The people that showed up but did not riot. The rioters had their own agenda and used the protest for their own ambitions. Trump was not responsible for the riots. He didn't call for people to riot and he didn't give them any support once the riots started.

Only an idiot like you would think "peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard" is a call to violence. Okay maybe not idiot. Delusional to the point of needing professional help describes your condition better.

tumbleweed
the wanderer
Sun Feb 14 14:46:10
you are a fool... why were even allies of Trump begging him to call them off?

he was slow on just a 'remain peaceful' (when they weren't being peaceful... plus reporting he didn't want to add that, but regardless if you believe it was clearly late & weak)... he didn't tell them to go home til well past the peak of it (& yes, they were watching his tweets, there's video of them being read to the crowd) & praised them (until suddenly hating them in a scripted speech)

also i don't care that in that 1 speech he said 'peaceful' once... he had been inciting ever since election night, repeatedly claiming victory, extremely repeatedly making mass fraud allegations, machines switching votes, country being stolen, antifa & poor blacks will move into your suburbs, socialism will take over, guns will be taken away, god will be destroyed, yadda yadda

you are fucking nuts if you think none of those people got their mindset from Trump

...although we've established you are fucking nuts on multiple issues

bye...
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