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Utopia Talk / Politics / And here comes the gun bans
Habebe
Member
Sun Feb 14 17:23:04
http://www...iversary-gun-reform/index.html

He played doen his hatred of guns the whole campaign, but here comes.the AR ban bs again.

They cant pass this by Dems alone and expect there not to be massive backlash.

Muricah loves its guns.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Sun Feb 14 17:47:14
it will go as smoothly as R's 2017 repeal & replace of Obamacare
Habebe
Member
Sun Feb 14 18:00:28
Tw, Agreed.

Id rather we get HC, leave the guns alone.
Sam Adams
Member
Sun Feb 14 19:44:36
Imagine being a dem and thinking you can take peoples guns after a year of sponsoring riots.

Seriously, at this point an assault weapons ban could start a civil war.
Im better then you
2012 UP Football Champ
Sun Feb 14 19:56:22
so we just gonna pretend mass shootings arn't real?
Habebe
Member
Sun Feb 14 20:15:25
What logic is that?

Are you going to act like mass car accidents domt happen?Didnt Texas just have loke a 180 car pile up?


A few extra Shootings are a small price to pay.

Like cars, they kill plenty of people every year, but its a small price to say.

Fund better mental health treatment and prevention, fine.
Im better then you
2012 UP Football Champ
Sun Feb 14 20:31:12
multiple a year mass shootings are a uniquely American problem.

Yes there are numerous regulations on cars and operating cars and deaths still happen so we change those regulations or find ways to prevent death and injury not give up on the notion of safety.
habebe
Member
Sun Feb 14 20:59:42
Its also a rather recent phenomenon in the last 20-25 years or so.

I'm not exactly sure baby it had become a thing since Columbine.

The actual amount of deaths are relatively low compared to almost every other way of dieing.

Suicide is a much bigger issue. There is a really good freakonomics podcast.

Bans are bad. Mental health background checks are tricky, but reasonable for driving and gun use.
Dukhat
Member
Sun Feb 14 21:57:17
He ran on an assault weapons ban. And the years of the Clinton assault weapons ban were the least violent in American history.

Anyways, I'm tired of catering to the Trump nutters. You all acted like Obama was going to seize your guns and Obama didn't do anything and you still voted for Trump.

So fuck it. Unleash the Kraken!

... and an assault weapons ban won't happen with Joe Manchin anyways. It's probably a negotiating ploy to make it seem like Biden was willing to negotiate.
Hrothgar
Member
Sun Feb 14 22:24:45
Mass shooting are directly tied to the rise of tactical style/design weapons in the hands of private citizens.

Back in the 80s/early 90s ever place in America had people driving around with gun racks in their trucks. But do you know what was in those gun racks? Hunting designed rifles and hunting designed shotguns. 3-7 rounds in a magazine max.

Then the rise of the NRA transforming from a hunting focused organization into a paramilitary weapon enthusiast organization (happened in the same time frame as the rise of right wing radio and 24/7 cable media during the Clinton years, not coincidently)

So we had this big combination of factors of the beginning of radicalization of conservative stances, electronic media morphing into a propaganda platform trading even handed reporting for target audience numbers, the weapon manufacturers able to find big profit, and the radicalized media pushed conflict between weapon controls and conservative ideals about gun rights - all lead to what we have today with a culture of very lethal combat designed weapons with high capacity of ammunition in the hands of citizens.

There have always been psychos around. In the US, because of the combination of factors listed, those psychos have access to firepower far beyond the pre-right wing propaganda news media days.
habebe
Member
Sun Feb 14 22:30:24
"and an assault weapons ban won't happen with Joe Manchin anyways. It's probably a negotiating ploy to make it seem like Biden was willing to negotiate."

That's creepy, I'm starting to think like Dukhat....
Sam Adams
Member
Mon Feb 15 09:51:53
"And the years of the Clinton assault weapons ban were the least violent in American history."

Wrong dumbass. America was safest before the civil rights movement and again just recently around 2010-2015, before BLM increased the crime rate again. While murder rates were declining during that period, it was clearly not the safest:

http://fiv...-ucr-2016-0922-1-corrected.png

Furthermore, the decrease in crime during that timeframe has little to do with the AWB. Increased african incarceration rates was the main cause of decreased crime, and increased abortion rate also helped significantly.
Sam Adams
Member
Mon Feb 15 09:57:13
"So we had this big combination of factors of the beginning of radicalization of conservative stances"

An increasingly incompetent left wing becoming ever more intrusive is driving most of that gun surge. Its reached the point where a significant chunk of the country feels they need these guns to defend their way of life... perhaps not now but in the very near future.
Wrath of Orion
Member
Mon Feb 15 10:29:03
Yes, people will always come up with a reason for why they absolutely must have them. None of them make any actual sense, but hey, whatevs.
Sam Adams
Member
Mon Feb 15 12:43:25
It makes perfect sense. Many people trust themselves and their neighbors for self defense more than they trust government.

Look how incompetently the government and society as a whole reacted to covid and the BLM riots. Imagine how poorly those bureaucrats would handle a real emergency.
kargen
Member
Mon Feb 15 12:58:22
When Australia changed their gun laws after the Port Arthur massacre incidents of multiple deaths by arson increased almost 700%.

People intent on causing harm will find a way to do so.

On an aside most Americans categorize assault weapons based on appearance rather than damage they can do. Several politicians supporting assault weapons bans would do so on looks of the weapon alone.
Wrath of Orion
Member
Mon Feb 15 13:09:17
"It makes perfect sense."

Mmmmkay.
Forwyn
Member
Mon Feb 15 15:45:45
"Mass shooting are directly tied to the rise of tactical style/design weapons in the hands of private citizens."

Lol. A generation of Boomers and their parents had access to Thompsons, BARs, and M1s.

A dude with pistols held the record for almost a decade, before a Muslim beat him out.
Sam Adams
Member
Mon Feb 15 16:38:28
Worst mass killings in us history:

Muslims with knives/airplanes
Right winger with fertilizer
White guy with AR15s
Muslim with AR 15
White guy with guns and bombs.
Mexican with handgun/airplane
White guy with handgun/airplane
Left wingers with bomb.
Asian with handguns.
Sam Adams
Member
Mon Feb 15 16:39:35
The most over-represented item in that list is muslims.
Habebe
Member
Mon Feb 15 21:47:22
Kargen, While that is true about OZ, for context the nominal numbers were still very low, I forget the details, but it was a hand full.
Habebe
Member
Mon Feb 15 21:54:42
I think the big take away from gun violence vs gun control is that both stances have a bit of faith in them.

My personal beleif is that a. Slight peak in gun related violence is an acceptable price to pay to be able to defend ourselves properly.

Most gun control advocates talk about " common sense" , I think because their "cures" work on faith as well. Gun buy backs for example have Absolutley zero impact on gun violence.That money spent could probably be better off paying for mental health assistance.

People talk about how gun violence in the 1st world is uniquley a US problem, they "forget" to mention that in almost all other violent crimes we have noticeably higher rates as well, so access to guns can not be the cause of them.

There is the argument of the safety benefits of an armed populace.
kargen
Member
Mon Feb 15 23:28:00
Yeah Habebe actual numbers are/were low, as were mass shooting in Australia. There was also a long period where there were none then a few happened fairly close together. Could have been a bit of copying going on?

Point still stands though. People intent on doing evil will find a way. As example we took a lot of precautions in the USA pertaining to guns. We then saw an increase in rental vans being used as weapons to mow through crowds.

I agree with you that our efforts and money would be better spent in addressing mental health issues.
As an aside I don't think it is just coincidence that teen suicides started to increase shortly after Facebook went public. I mention that because when I was in school kids could get away from bullying for a while. Now with social media kids can be bullied 24/7. Bringing us back around social media and 24/7 access to almost unfiltered news is creating a lot of angst and many people are not dealing so well with that sensory overload.
Dukhat
Member
Tue Feb 16 00:03:57
There is no faith involved. Mass shootings disappeared in britain and australia after gun control measures. Since then the NRA has constantly propagandized against them because they know they work. And even Australians kept their guns too.

Cuckservatives believe they don’t work because they don’t need actual evidence because they are idiots that look only to confirm their previous biases.
Habebe
Member
Tue Feb 16 00:17:26
Dukhat, Did either nation have major problems with mass shootings prior?

Since Australia started culling sharks there have been very few shark attacks.That uses the same logic you applied to gun bans.
Habebe
Member
Tue Feb 16 00:20:25
Kargen, The internet definitley has played a role in many deaths, no question.Probably way more than guns.Again, everything comes at a price, that is an acceptable one for me.

Dukhat, Still, its not like your advocating gun buy backs, possibly the dumbest gun control measure devised.
Habebe
Member
Tue Feb 16 00:24:59
Swimming pools contribute way more deaths every year than guns do.Especially children.

If given the option to be drowned or shot to death, I think its safe to assume no one wpuld choose drowning, and yet thats the price we pay for summer fun, isn't the right to adequtley defend yourself greater than summer fun of swimming in a pool?
werewolf dictator
Member
Tue Feb 16 04:15:29
even in recent years mass shootings average <100 fatalities/year.. and that's all types of firearms

if it's even extremely vaguely conceivable that having semiauto 5.56/7.62mm style weapons in the hands of civilians could ever deter nation from going all khmer rouge or nazi germany etc.. then it's easily worth it
patom
Member
Tue Feb 16 05:48:47
gunszzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Sam Adams
Member
Tue Feb 16 12:34:19
"Mass shootings disappeared in britain and australia after gun control"

mass censorship and government overreach appeared however.

Like look how fucking cucked seb is.

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