Utopia Talk / Politics / astrazenca caught lieing again

Sam Adams Member	Tue Mar 23 09:25:03 http://www...cine-dsmb-statement/index.html Damn seb. Way to fail.
Paramount Member	Tue Mar 23 11:42:46 I have read on swedish news that all negative reporting on Western vaccine is Russian propaganda. So it’s sad to see that CNN is running Putin’s errands and is forwarding his disinformation.
habebe Member	Tue Mar 23 11:45:56 Paramount, That's assuming the news organization you is right.
Sam Adams Member	Tue Mar 23 11:47:48 Theres only one western vaccine, the british one, that gets any negative press. The others are great.
Paramount Member	Tue Mar 23 12:04:11 I suspect that all the talk in Swedish media about ”Russian disinformation” on western (AZ) vaccine is exagerated. It is possible that the talk about ”Russian disinformation” is just very poor damage control. Many Swedes are sceptic and uncertain about AZ's vaccine. Most wants Pfizer’s. But the swedish state wants swedes to take AZ's vaccine, because we have bought a whole lot of it. So if the media can blame the negative reporting on Putin/Russia, the Swedish govt hopes that Swedes will change their minds about AZ’s vaccine and think that ”oh.. so all the negative reporting is just Russian propaganda? Well then, maybe the vaccine isn’t so bad after all, so I can take it!"
Sam Adams Member	Tue Mar 23 12:18:53 I mean the AZ vaccine isnt going to hurt you and will protect you decently against the original strains, so if its your only option you might as well take it. But obviously you should go with superior moderna or pfizer if you have that choice.
Paramount Member	Tue Mar 23 13:36:26 We don’t get to choose. I will have to take the vaccine that they offer me. But maybe that will change later when, or if, we have an abundance of vaccine doses. I’m not prioritized so I will have to wait until later this year. Hopefully we will have an abundance of vaccine doses by then.
Y2A Member	Tue Mar 23 14:52:41 chad moderna, virgin astrozeneca
Sam Adams Member	Tue Mar 23 15:02:18 "We don’t get to choose. I will have to take the vaccine that they offer me." All of a sudden government controlled healthcare doesnt seem so perfect does it?
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Tue Mar 23 15:21:22 "We don’t get to choose." Yes you can choose. It isn't like any country has a buffet of vaccines to pick from. You simply say no to the AZ vaccine and wait. Don't believe state propaganda Paramount. The Swedish health care system, can not force you to take any medication, nor can they when you need the medication not proscribe it for you. You need to know your rights, bitch!
habebe Member	Tue Mar 23 15:54:14 Nimatzo, Or try different doctors offices. Now my dad just went with the one his doctors happen to have ( either Moderna or Pfizer) but you can go just about anywhere as long as you fit the current prerequisites.Mostly doctors offices ( seems to be the fastest, they called and offered it to him) but some pharmacies offer them too I think You could probably just call around and get put on a list...to then as you said...wait.
Paramount Member	Tue Mar 23 18:02:17 Of course they can not force me to take a vaccine. But I can also not ask that they give me a vaccine from a particular manufacturer. They have said that people can not choose. But perhaps they mean that the people who are being vaccinated now – that they can’t choose, because they have to take the vaccine that is being offered to them now, which is mainly AZ I believe. But later on, later this year when all of the prioritized groups has been vaccinated and when there is no shortage of vaccine, we will have millions of doses stockpiled, then maybe we will be able to choose. I don’t see why we shouldn’t be able to choose a particular manufacturer over another. We should have free choice. But I won’t believe it until I see it.
Habebe Member	Tue Mar 23 18:06:36 Paramount, Just ask which vaccine it is.If you really want a different vaccinne call around. That said, the issues with the AZ vaccinne seem super rare, and the benefits far outweigh the chance of dying from covid. But its up to you.
jergul large member	Wed Mar 24 02:21:30 "The European Union allowed pharmaceutical companies to fulfill their contracts by authorizing them to export more than 40 million vaccine doses to 33 countries between February and mid-March, with 10 million going to Britain and 4.3 million to Canada. The bloc has kept about 70 million at home and distributed them to its 27 member nations, but its efforts to mount mass vaccination campaigns have been set back by a number of missteps. Exporting liberally overseas when supply at home is thin has been a key part of the problem, and the bloc has come under criticism for permitting exports in the first place, when the United States and Britain practically locked up domestic production for domestic use through contracts with pharmaceutical companies." NYT
Seb Member	Wed Mar 24 03:34:53 jergul: The UK didn't lock up domestic production. All the UK domestic production is new capacity created by government investment over the last year. As is the Halix production line - which the UK directly funded the set up of. Firms are free to use that capacity after they have fulfilled UK orders. Is the EU distributing the vaccine supply that it has directly bought for itself to third countries? The issue is simply that the EC did not invest in boosting vaccine supply capacity, relied entirely on drug orders (poorly contracted ones at that) and is now hoping for a free ride.
jergul large member	Wed Mar 24 05:07:27 Firms are free to use that capacity after they have fulfilled UK orders. = Firms are free to export from the EU once they have fulfilled EU orders.
Habebe Member	Wed Mar 24 05:54:40 The thing is that this seems to imply the EUs problem is they are shipping out their vaccines and the US and UK are hoarding them. The opposite is more true.The EU is flirting with export bans. What happened is that the EU's trade negotiators suck at buying vaccines. They bought way later than the US/UK.They also got them cheaper and have more regulation over the vaccines. But at the cost of an utterly slow rollout compared to civilized parts of the world. They chose cost and regulations over speed and now want to birch that other nations who paid upfront long before them are getting the vaccines first. On top of which EU factories have had issues producing the doses on time ( look at Canada's problem)
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Wed Mar 24 06:00:20 Paramount "But I can also not ask that they give me a vaccine from a particular manufacturer. They have said that people can not choose" Because they only have 1 vaccine to offer atm. It is state "propaganda" (I am using the term loosly) to have as many people vaccinate as soon as possible. Which is fine. They just don't explain why you can't choose. I have read it too, it sounds absolute and authorative. "But later on, later this year when all of the prioritized groups has been vaccinated and when there is no shortage of vaccine, we will have millions of doses stockpiled, then maybe we will be able to choose" And this is the case in pretty much every country atm. Americans don't walk in and have a buffee to pick from. The only choice at the moment anywhere is to say yes or wait for more options.
jergul large member	Wed Mar 24 06:08:57 That is exactly the propblem. The EU is shipping out a full third of its vaccine production while the US and the UK are not exporting vaccine production. Never mind the new US move to possibly allow exports to Mexico and Canada. So the EU will block exports and pick up the pace of vaccinations.
Habebe Member	Wed Mar 24 06:38:41 That's not the case. The problem was the way they bought them and when (months later) If I make a doctors appointment on January 1st with a private office and Bill makes one march 3rd with the clinic who charges in a sliding scale, who do you think is going to get the visit first? That also doesn't account for EU factories faltering. Your post also said that 40 million doses were authorized, is it verified they actually shipped? 40 million doses for Europe doesn't hardly put a dent in the lead the US/UK have taken.
Habebe Member	Wed Mar 24 06:46:16 Ive seen only 34 million doses shipped out of the EU. And again, his isnt a case of the EU choosing to ship out vaccines as much as they failed to buy doses in time. The only ones trying to ban export is the EU.Not the UK/US. The US just increased its exports as you pointed out.
jergul large member	Wed Mar 24 07:23:52 Habebe That would be the first US export as you have an export ban on exporting vaccines and have just introduced an export ban on raw materials used to produced vaccines. The UK has also blocked exports through contracts. I don't have patients for the argument that contractual export bans are not export bans. Anyway, the EU just found 30 million doses without export license, so that pretty much resolves the astrazenica shortfall we have seen until now. Lets hope the myth of the EU underproducing vaccines has now been put to rest.
jergul large member	Wed Mar 24 07:24:19 patience*
jergul large member	Wed Mar 24 07:28:04 http://new...fsOdjLJbVI1zgAtj4Pcf1qDW53eGob
habebe Member	Wed Mar 24 09:14:53 The US has no export ban. We bought vaccinne ahead of time, you didn't. US/UK bought vaccines in July 2020, the EU bought them in November!
habebe Member	Wed Mar 24 09:15:46 Its good you have patience, you'll need it to wait around to.get your vaccinne.
habebe Member	Wed Mar 24 09:54:01 Also EU nations have had export bans since January.
Sam Adams Member	Wed Mar 24 10:35:04 Of the 3 good vaccines, the US is responsible for 5/6th of that technology and spent almost all of the development costs. A 4th vaccine, the shittiest, is entirely UK and thus that country has lots of, albeit shitty, vaxes. Its only fair that the euros have to wait. Its a good life lesson in socialized medicine: you get what you pay for.
habebe Member	Wed Mar 24 10:36:34 And when you pay for it (November/December) which was almost half a year later than the US/UK.
jergul large member	Wed Mar 24 11:32:21 Its only fair that countries get the vaccines they produce first before entertaining export. The US and UK have been steadfast on this principle, the EU has slacked a bit and is now correcting the matter. For details on the US position, read EO 13962
Habebe Member	Wed Mar 24 11:49:37 Its only fair you pay on time for your vaccines and not be cheap and slow....once again more evidence of how useless the EU is. Again, The US has no ban on vaccinnes. Your EO is here On March 8, 2015, the President issued Executive Order 13692, declaring a national emergency with respect to the situation in Venezuela, including the Government of Venezuela’s erosion of human rights guarantees, persecution of political opponents, curtailment of press freedoms, use of violence and human rights violations and abuses in response to antigovernment protests, and arbitrary arrest and detention of antigovernment protestors, as well as the exacerbating presence of significant government corruption. http://www...ncy-with-respect-to-venezuela/ -------- "The US has not imposed any rules to prohibit the export of the Covid-19 vaccine, the White House clarified on Thursday. " https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.livemint.com/news/india/us-rejects-reports-of-ban-on-exports-of-covid-19-vaccines/amp-11615510206672.html
Sam Adams Member	Wed Mar 24 12:00:07 Jergul is complaining about exports of the product of technology that you imported from the US and UK. lulz. Bottom line, why did the US produce the most effective vaccines? Because we grab the best researchers by paying them the most.
Paramount Member	Wed Mar 24 12:00:24 The EU should not ban exports, I think that is the wrong way to go. But everyone who is buying vaccine from EU will have to stand in a line and wait until the EU has vaccinated its people. So there is no need for a formal ban. Those who are looking to buy vaccine produced within the EU will jusy have to wait a little bit.
Habebe Member	Wed Mar 24 12:08:41 Afaik US vaccinnes have only received 1 million from EU plants.
Sam Adams Member	Wed Mar 24 12:12:13 I think most eu exports have been astrazenca going to the UK?
jergul large member	Wed Mar 24 12:12:48 Sammy What are you even on about? Para Its mostly just adding criteria for when exports can be blocked. The EU has already blocked a shipment of 250k doses to Australian under "wtf do you need vaccines for?". The criteria just standarizes when export permission will be denied.
Habebe Member	Wed Mar 24 12:13:55 Sam, He can't wrap his head around the fact that his beloved Norway is vaccinating people at a snails pace, they have been declining in place from .25 down to .16 per 100 while the US is at .75 slowly inching up. It boils down mainly to the EU buying vaccines almost half a year later and then they get salty at boogeyman like the UK when they should realize it was the Ex's fault.
Sam Adams Member	Wed Mar 24 12:16:08 Yup. A very poor showing for EU's socialized healthcare system.
jergul large member	Wed Mar 24 12:51:40 Habebe Try measuring how many people are dying per week. This is ultimately the only success criteria. We will see when Norway's fully vaccinated numbers pass the US. Because you know that is going to happen, right? Sammy You are doing better in socialized procurement. Yay big goverment giving vaccines to all the states.
Habebe Member	Wed Mar 24 13:03:00 Its like a robot trying figure out a paradox. You can sense the pain and shame in his words.
jergul large member	Wed Mar 24 13:35:05 Habebe Nations producing vaccines are generally blocking exports one way or another. The exceptions until now have been the EU, China, and India. Worry about your own stuff. You are still dying 20 times faster from covid than Norwegians on a per capita basis.
Sam Adams Member	Wed Mar 24 13:39:04 I can see the subject of the vaccines is very difficult for you jergul.
Habebe Member	Wed Mar 24 13:51:22 The EU has been banning vaccine exports since January ( Italy). The US has not regardless of your claims with evidence amounting to an executive order aboit Venezuela?
jergul large member	Wed Mar 24 13:51:47 Sammy Its vexing to me because new public management principles lead to Norway dismembering its drug production system 15 years ago. The silver lining is of course that we will get our national production back. Globalization is only fine up to a point. I am actually much more vexed about the lack of high end graphic cards. To put things into their proper perspective.
jergul large member	Wed Mar 24 13:52:40 Habebe What % of your vaccine production has been exported? Exports blocked!
Habebe Member	Wed Mar 24 13:57:30 Its almost an admission of failure....
Habebe Member	Wed Mar 24 14:24:24 You said the US had an export ban, you even gave an executive order number. You were wrong and your country vaccinates slower than Poland.
Habebe Member	Wed Mar 24 14:24:25 You said the US had an export ban, you even gave an executive order number. You were wrong and your country vaccinates slower than Poland.
jergul large member	Wed Mar 24 17:38:28 Habebe I don't care how the US banned exports. Its enough that it has.
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