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Utopia Talk / Politics / 50% of US Vaccinated by 2022 II
Hrothgar
Member
Sat Mar 27 22:47:53
"this thread is like watching jergul, seb and cuckhat get their ass beat because someone shoved a banana down their pants and released a monkey. the complete failure of socialized medicine is shown in every statistic and there is nothing they can say to discount it beyond vaguely claiming some unforeseen issue will come up to help them save face."

I have to disagree. The entire USA covid effort IS SOCIALIZED MEDICINE! No one has to pay for a shot. No one had to pay insurance or private market to develop the vaccines - the funding was all tax payer money aka SOCIALIZED.

The whole process of US citizens getting vaccinated at a massive rate is precisely enabled because of smart use of socialized medicine. No providers or patients have to fuck around with insurance before giving people the medicine.
Habebe
Member
Sat Mar 27 22:58:38
All economies are mixed economies, just a sliding scale.

The military is funded by taxpayer dollars too and right wing nations around the world with them.
Sam Adams
Member
Sat Mar 27 23:22:57
True, a mix is best in many things.

"The entire USA covid effort IS SOCIALIZED MEDICINE"

This is not true. By far the most important step was creating the vaccines, which was done most successfully by private, profit seeking companies. Sure you can consider free shots to everyone socialized medicine, but that is the last and easiest stage of the entire effort.
earthpig
GTFO HOer
Sun Mar 28 01:16:49
I don't think the sliding scale is *always* better if it's turned a bit more towards "Socialism" or "Capitalism," I think it depends on the industry. "Capitalist" policing would be stupid, for example, and "Socialist" housing is called "the Projects" and generally not regarded as a great place to live. So it depends.

"By far the most important step was creating the vaccines, which was done most successfully by private, profit seeking companies."

...come on now, they invested those resources knowing they'd have a big fat (effectively) federal subsidy on the back end. In WW2 your sewing machine factory could retool to make M1 Garand rifles, which would sell to Uncle Same for double the normal profit margin, and for each batch of rifles sold a royalty check went back to Springfield. Of course it's a good fucking investment of resources to invent the M1 Garand rifle! Or the P-51 Mustang, or the Liberty ship, or the gasket sealant used on the Space Shuttle, come on now.

The vaccine thing is dialed closer to "Socialism," or "Single Payer" if you prefer, than it is dialed towards "Capitalism."

The Soviet Union had a "Single Payer, but competing firms" setup for arms in the leadup, and during, WW2, too. Kalashnikov wasn't the only entity seeking profit by inventing what the gov't would view as the best rifle. But even the 2nd and 3rd place rifles had gov't orders placed, since by then the factories etc were already in place -- anyone in the Top 5 of such a competition can't fail to make money.

So unless you're going to call the USSR's AK-47 a champion case study for "Team Capitalism," you can't call this de facto Soviet-invented Vaccine a champion case study for "Team Capitalism" either.
earthpig
GTFO HOer
Sun Mar 28 01:22:30
Here's your J&J vaccine: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AVS-36

Does not matter that it wasn't ordered in mass quantity, you played the gov't game so you got some gov't dollars for some gov't rifles. Sergei Simonov did better than fine.
Seb
Member
Sun Mar 28 03:26:52
Sam:

You mean where the govt gave billions on direct funding and advance orders, taking on much of the risk; and threw billions to subsidize production capacity?

Sure sounds like free market to me.
Seb
Member
Sun Mar 28 03:30:51
Note the idea that the defining feature of Covid response is whether the healthcare is social or private is something I think only Sam has really been pedaling.

For me it's about centralisation and interoperability of data flows to enable population level monitoring of disease progression, variants etc.

Habebe
Member
Sun Mar 28 11:11:44
So Norway has stepped up their vaccinations rate (No doubt due to Jerguls angry emails)

They jumped another .02 to .27

The US has jumped up .05 to .8
Sam Adams
Member
Sun Mar 28 11:50:53
"You mean where the govt gave billions on direct funding and advance orders, taking on much of the risk; and threw billions to subsidize production capacity?"

Yes seb, to already existing for profit companies that had the skill to make good vaccines, something you lacked.

Ooops.
Rugian
Member
Sun Mar 28 12:34:03
Regardless of whatever you want to call the US vaccination scheme, it is objectively much superior to the dumpster fire that is the EU health system.

----

March 28:

% of US that has received at least 1 dose: 28.6% (+0.2%)

% of US fully vaccinated: 15.5% (+0.4%)
Rugian
Member
Sun Mar 28 12:35:00
^ 1st dose should be 28.2%, plus 0.6%. Got the 2 and the 6 mixed up.
Y2A
Member
Sun Mar 28 13:00:38
It's clear that the 50% threshold will easily be met pretty soon. I think the more interesting question is what will be the maximum point of vaccination that we will reach? what percentage of the population will refuse to take any vaccine?
Y2A
Member
Sun Mar 28 13:01:48
the ny times vaccination map again:

http://www...us/covid-19-vaccine-doses.html
obaminated
Member
Sun Mar 28 14:26:07
To call the american response to covid as a socialized medicine act is a strech. It is mixed. The fed flooded money to private companies who found the solution. So yes, it is mixed. Far better than anything europe shat out and without a doubt we will be bailing them out, again. And they will forget about it and hate on us, again.
Habebe
Member
Sun Mar 28 14:38:41
Well, the difference really seems to have started with the negotiation styles. In the end Europe also hired private companies to make vaccines.

However the US thought to go big or go home, and did so early while tge EU bought late in the game , and demanded legal restrictions and negotiated for a lower price.
jergul
large member
Sun Mar 28 17:00:44
The defining difference is between who blocks exports and who does not.

The UK would be par with the EU+ and the US would be doing slightly better than both if the EU also had blocked exports.
Sam Adams
Member
Sun Mar 28 18:14:45
No jergul. If you took the UKs shitty AZ from them, you would still be far behind the US.

Bottom line... no one in the EU could create a vaccine by themselves.

"In the end Europe also hired private companies to make vaccines. "

But the smaller, less capable companies that survived their socialist system were not up to making good vaccines in time.
Sam Adams
Member
Sun Mar 28 18:16:23
"what percentage of the population will refuse to take any vaccine?"

Good question. That depends on if kids are ok to get it.
Seb
Member
Sun Mar 28 18:27:57
Sam's take on the difference between the EU and US/UK scheme is 100% wrong

US and UK directly invested in supply chain capacity, nationalising the risk to ensure production capacity for vaccines that might not even work or be ordered.

European Commission played it by the capitalist book: placed orders with vendors and expected them to take the risk in arranging supply chain and capacity.

Then you have Astrazenica: a drug make by a state funded university, released under not for profit, exclusively licensed to AZ in order to ensure someone actually supported implementation; but then production capacity is entirely dependent on subsidy. Think open source: the IP is free, but you need to bring your own servers.
Seb
Member
Sun Mar 28 18:31:09
Jergul:

The whole thing about AZ vaccine is the buyer has to finance their own productive capacity. Because AZ isn't allowed to make profit, supply chain has to be directly priced into the contract with the buyer, and the buyer doesn't want to expose themselves to riskb of dilution.

If you like not-for-profit models, you need to stop judging then by the standards of for-profit.
Habebe
Member
Sun Mar 28 22:01:54
"European Commission played it by the capitalist book: placed orders with vendors and expected them to take the risk in arranging supply chain and capacity."

Is it the "capitalist " move to wait 6 + months and to think that by waiting and paying less they would get pushed aheadnin line?

Perhaps it just boils down to the EU just being rather useless. Does anyone here really see the as NOT useless?
Sam Adams
Member
Sun Mar 28 22:08:59
The EU's weak socialist system relied on the US to invent the technology. This is why they are behind. Followers will never be leaders. The weak will never be strong. Seb, will never be right.
jergul
large member
Sun Mar 28 22:12:16
Habebe
Every european here save shannong thinks the EU is useful. Its one of the fundamental differences between us and many of you.

We ultimately think Federal Government is looking out for us.
Habebe
Member
Sun Mar 28 22:16:08
The rest of The world does not think the EU is very usefull, globally its a backwater anymore.
Seb
Member
Mon Mar 29 01:32:06
Habebe:

Various EU states invested billions in drug development.

Let's say giving billions in subsidies to companies to build manufacturing capability and put the risk on the taxpayer *isn't* free market.

My point is that trying to look at this through the lens of free market Vs state intervention is the most stupid possible framing to try and explain the difference between the two strategies.

So it's no surprise that Sam leapt right to that framing.

As for the EU being useless, thats possibly the second most stupid framing. You need to understand what the roles of different bodies are (Commission, Member States, council etc.) and what the primary intent of MSs was in setting up an EC lead program, baring in mind the EC's primary role is normally to regulate a free market, not intervene in it, and certainly not to provide healthcare.

Sam:
Except the technology for the two vvaccines being used,including the two that first hit the market, were invented by European institutions directly funded by European govts, using technologies that had been under development in the EU with state backing before the pandemic.

Again, you are back to front.

Seb
Member
Mon Mar 29 01:33:16
Habebe:

You and Sam and your parochial information bubble are not "the world".
Seb
Member
Mon Mar 29 05:11:17
I mean, the "pfizer" vaccine was developed by a German company using over $400m of direct development funding by the German govt.

It is hardly what you can call a poster child of the triumph of American free market over European state subsidy.

Seb
Member
Mon Mar 29 05:14:10
And that's ignoring all the funding BionTEC got from the EU R&D framework programs to develop the mRNA technology in previous years.

It's why it beat Moderna to the punch.
jergul
large member
Mon Mar 29 06:46:21
BionTec are the ones actually working on curing cancer, but retasked to a covid vaccine_
Habebe
Member
Mon Mar 29 09:45:03
Seb, I never pitched this is FM against socialized.

I'm saying the EU acted slow and not picked in their negotiations.

...because the EU is relatively useless.

Seb, you may have dodged a bullet with Brexit.
Seb
Member
Mon Mar 29 10:19:02
Habebe:

If you are a small country in Europe, you probably do not think the EU is useless on the vaccine program. You never had the option that the US and UK had, or Germany, France, Italy, Spain etc. had to boost domestic vaccine supply; nor the financial firepower or leverage to secure commercial access.

The EC program was always first and foremost about preventing vaccine nationalism between EU states and the EU internal supply chains and trade (both in vaccine and related products and generally) breaking down due to patchy levels of uptake.

It was slow and ineffective as it lacked equivalent procurement functions compared to a real government, this is true. But it has so far succeeded in it's primary goal of maintaining solidarity. Germany and France might have done better had they not been in the scheme; but the majority of EU countries have done much better.

Where they have failed is in their procurement strategy: they focused far too much on market dogma; that is the private sectors roll to sort out finance and supply chain, and all they needed to do was sign a contract and hold the supplier to it.

But the EC is first and foremost a market regulator that spends almost all of it's time enforcing fair competition rules.

This is one of the areas that Americans tend to massively misunderstand the EU institutionally. They see the EC as ineffective because it lacks the executive functions of the US federal government; when in-fact the European Commission is a body set up and almost entirely devoted to a single narrow mission.

The equivalent in US terms: imagine that the US Federal government was abolished of almost all executive functions other than the rigorous enforcement of free trade and competition rules between states, and little else, using state enforcement bodies and federal courts as the main levers of doing so.

We might have dodged a bullet with Brexit. We might also have decided not to opt into the EC system. We might also have insisted that the EC adopt our approach.


Sam Adams
Member
Mon Mar 29 10:27:09
"Except the technology for the two vvaccines being used,including the two that first hit the market, were invented by European institutions directly funded by European govts, using technologies that had been under development in the EU with state backing before the pandemic."

None of this is true.

While a small amount of tech came from europe, most of the work, as always, came from the US.

Thanks US for saving the world, again.
Seb
Member
Mon Mar 29 10:57:37
First two vaccines to hit the market were the Oxford vaccine, a UK university with development funded by UK govt; and the BionTEK vaccine, developed by a German company, with billions of pounds of German and EU govt funding.

Pfizer didn't get involved until March 2020; it's role being (like AZ) handling the market authorisation and manufacturing.

Biontec = Apple
Pfizer = Foxconn
Sam Adams
Member
Mon Mar 29 12:08:29
More nonsensical whining from seb.

Bottom line, if this was tech you could handle by yourselves, you wouldnt be so far behind the US at vaccine production and distribution.

You cant.

Pwnt.
Seb
Member
Mon Mar 29 12:19:03
How many iPhones are manufactured in the US Sam?


Seb
Member
Mon Mar 29 12:19:47
How many are manufactured in China.

Obviously Sam thinks this is because the US can't handle the technology for iphones.
Rugian
Member
Mon Mar 29 12:39:49
I am enjoying the vim and vigor of this debate, but let us not lose sight of what this thread series is dedicated to...namely humiliating jergul for his utter lack of analytical skills and showing off how much the US is kicking ass on the vaccination front.

----

March 29:

% of US that has received at least 1 dose: 28.6% (+0.4%)

% of US fully vaccinated: 15.8% (+0.3%)
Sam Adams
Member
Mon Mar 29 12:43:12
Yes seb, the US outsourcing final assembly of our tech to cheap labor spots is comparable to you being unable to develop vaccine tech at all.

Lol dunceclown.

Instead of all this jealous whining it would be much simpler for you to just thank us for saving you again.
jergul
large member
Mon Mar 29 15:33:19
It amazes me. You have had 14000 dead in the last two weeks. We have had 17 dead over the same period.

The sum total of your covid response sucks donkey balls. Its ok that we are looking at just one aspect in this thread, but have some humility on account of your general huge, massive failure, mkay?
Sam Adams
Member
Mon Mar 29 15:51:01
You get your vax yet jergul?
Rugian
Member
Mon Mar 29 15:54:39
Jergul

You have had 1,000 deaths after accounting for differences in population numbers.

The remaining delta can be explained by the fact that Norwegians are social lovers who can't stand human interactions. That makes you miserable human beings, but it does help with social distancing.

I and most other Americans prefer having a life to spending our days watching TV shows about burning firelogs, so we tolerate a bit more death as a result. Its part of the cost of living your life in a normal manner.
Rugian
Member
Mon Mar 29 15:55:28
Social *losers*, you fucking autocorrect
Seb
Member
Mon Mar 29 16:29:11
Sam:

Except as had been repeatedly pointed out, the "Pfizer" jab was developed in Germany, with state funds, and it's manufactured in Belgium.

Pfizers role in this is pretty much limited to its ability to handle medical regulatory bureaucracy.
Seb
Member
Mon Mar 29 16:31:04
Sam, when you got the "pfizer" jab, did you remember to write a thankyou note to the German Embassy?
Sam Adams
Member
Mon Mar 29 18:13:10
"Except as had been repeatedly pointed out, the "Pfizer" jab was developed in Germany, with state funds, and it's manufactured in Belgium."

Sure, the germans provided a minor amount of tech and funding to the effort. Not much though. The vast majority of that work was done in the US.
Sam Adams
Member
Mon Mar 29 18:14:19
If the germans could have done that themselves, they would have.
Seb
Member
Tue Mar 30 02:48:08
Sam:

Sam Adams: "If Americans could build an IPhone, they would do it themselves, not outsource to China".

Securing global marketing authorizations in all the different jurisdictions is complicated and tiresome as is managing global licensing. That is what Pfizer brings to the table. In your language: bureaucrats. Dirty stinking paper pushers with decades of experience in getting license agreements in place with random factories, authorizations in all the various regulatory regimes across the world, handling import/exports etc. This is, of course, actually very valuable because the world is what it is.

But if you are going to persist in your infantilized view of the world that only the tech matters, the tech is German, developed in Germany, with lots of state funding. Pfizer brought nothing of tech to the table. Even less than AZ did to the Oxford partnership (AZ brought the manufacturing process scale up) - Biontech had already go the scaled manufacturing process worked out.

Joining the Covid partnership in March 2020, after the trials began, Pfizer did not bring significant tech.
Seb
Member
Tue Mar 30 02:50:07
Similarly, what Foxconn brings to the table for Apple is being able to produce at scale, at the right costs, with the right level of quality.

And Apple could not get that done in the US.

This is why we have global supply chains.
habebe
Member
Tue Mar 30 10:17:38
Apple makes iphones in China because they are cheaper.

Biontec has a vaccinne that has to be kept super cold. I doibt its cheaper for Germans to produce it in the US once you factor in logistics.
Sam Adams
Member
Tue Mar 30 10:20:52
Americans who want an Iphone who have one: 100%

Europeans who want a good vax and have one: ~5%

Your analogy is again as poor as your vaccine making skills.

Also i see astrazenca is being paused again by canada and germany(and probably others) as more blood clots pop up.

"And Apple could not get that done in the US."

Apple could easily do that in the US, but would lose a little money. For you its not a question of economics but skill. You are unable to make a good vaccine, so economics is irrelevant. No need to worry about where you make your vaccines since they dont exist.

"This is why we have global supply chains."

Good thing for you too. The US will supply you with vaccines, saving you once again.

After we finish ourselves, of course.
Sam Adams
Member
Tue Mar 30 10:22:30
Which vax did you seb? Lulz.
jergul
large member
Tue Mar 30 13:49:32
Sammy
Not tired of trolling yet?
Rugian
Member
Tue Mar 30 13:51:09
March 30:

% of US that has received at least 1 dose: 28.9% (+0.3%)

% of US fully vaccinated: 16.1% (+0.3%)
Sam Adams
Member
Tue Mar 30 14:26:12
jergul
large member Tue Mar 30 13:49:32
Sammy
Not tired of trolling yet?


Lol nope!
Seb
Member
Tue Mar 30 17:45:30
Habebe:

It's cheaper to partner with Pfizer to study out regulatory approval in each market and get them to subcon manufacture to factories in each, as Pfizer has offers and lawyers set up in each regulatory region, than it is for Biontec to try and hire a bunch of lawyers to do that.

Same difference. Don't over extend the analogy.
Seb
Member
Tue Mar 30 17:52:17
Sam:

"Apple could easily do that in the US, but would lose a little money."

I.e. given what I said - at the right costs - you admit they can't do it in in America. They would have to raise prices or cut margin. Further, right now, there's no company in the US that can offer the scale and quality of foxconn. I'm sure you could set one up in time. But that would be investment cost to secure higher manufacturing costs (so losing sales or margin).

"The US will supply you with vaccines, saving you once again"

Except you aren't. The two vaccines most in use in Europe are developed by European firms, funded by European govts, manufactured in European factories, using a process developed in Europe.

The sole role of any US entity is Pfizer, which filled in the paperwork.

Even the Johnson and Johnson jab was manufactured in Europe and is currently being exported to the US.

You are in deep denial Sam.



Sam Adams
Member
Tue Mar 30 18:04:39
"Even the Johnson and Johnson jab was manufactured in Europe and is currently being exported to the US. "

Wrong.

Primary manufacturing of the J+J vax is done in Bloomington, Indiana.

Why are you never right, seb?

"The two vaccines most in use in Europe are developed by European firms, funded by European govts, manufactured in European factories, using a process developed in Europe."

And you are way behind. Obviously, you suck at vaccinations. When we are done vaccinating ourselves, we will help you, but as ungreatful as you are, you are going to have to wait. We might do mexico first.

Pwnt.
Habebe
Member
Tue Mar 30 20:33:58
The first step in preparing to supply a vaccine worldwide: activating manufacturing capabilities.

Johnson & Johnson quickly prepared to produce the clinical trial supply of its investigational Janssen COVID-19 vaccine candidate at its vaccine launch facility in Leiden, the Netherlands, which was built in 2018 for the express purpose of large-scale production of vaccines for clinical trials and, pending regulatory approvals, the launch of new vaccines.

But the sheer scale of the pandemic quickly made it clear that more resources would be needed because Europe is useless with incomes rivaling Alabama.

"We have a lot of experience," Colarusso says. "But we knew the scale here was so big that we couldn't do everything ourselves. It's essential to look to partners."

So, in April, the company announced a collaboration with its first manufacturing partner, Emergent BioSolutions, Inc., based in Maryland.

Between then and March 2021, Johnson & Johnson announced collaborations with four more U.S. partners—Catalent, Inc., in Indiana; Michigan-based Grand River Aseptic Manufacturing (GRAM); PCI and Merck in Pennsylvania—as well as Reig Jofre in Spain, a Catalent facility in Italy, Biological E Limited in India, ASPEN Pharmacare in South Africa and Sanofi Pasteur in France.
Seb
Member
Wed Mar 31 01:43:49
Sam, Habebe:

Yup, there are new plants in commissioning to produce J&J vaccine in the US.

But the first batches you have been using are from the EU.
Seb
Member
Wed Mar 31 01:45:52
Indeed, they've had to move the J&J bottling plant to a German facility because J&J were originally doing bottling it the US for the EU destined supply, but then you started impounding the shipments that were to go back to the EU.

That's how desperate you are for vaccine: you actually steal supply.
Habebe
Member
Wed Mar 31 01:52:21
1st off, if the US actually did steal vaccinnes from the EU, Id vote Biden.

My previous post is just a C&P from J&J website.I added 1 line...
Sam Adams
Member
Wed Mar 31 10:07:30
So seb is claiming that Johnson and johnson doesnt actually use the production facility in Indiana?, and that it instead ships them from the EU to the states just to ship them back to the EU?

Lol your grasping for some serious straws to try to avoid admitting the obvious: the US leads the way in vaccines.

Btw which vax did you get again?
Seb
Member
Wed Mar 31 10:47:30
Sam:

Is Sam actually claiming that the first J&J doses used in the US didn't come from the EU?

Seb
Member
Wed Mar 31 11:07:11
Also, I'm in my thirties so I haven't had a vaccine yet.
Sam Adams
Member
Wed Mar 31 11:48:36
"Also, I'm in my thirties so I haven't had a vaccine yet."

How wierd. I'm in my 30s and got a pfizer. Almost like thats evidence of something... what could it be...
habebe
Member
Wed Mar 31 13:06:29
In my 30s, should be having it some time next week. Anyone over 16 can get a vaccinne if they want it in SC.
Seb
Member
Wed Mar 31 13:08:56
Sam:

Evidence in a failure of public health due to lack of appropriate prioritisation; and sociopathic disregard to systemic risk.

Under 30s shouldn't get the vaccine until you've vaccinated all over 50s.
Sam Adams
Member
Wed Mar 31 13:21:53
"Under 30s shouldn't get the vaccine until you've vaccinated all over 50s."

No. An under 30 who can spread it to a lot of people, say a grocery store cashier, is clearly a better vaccination option for public health concerns than a 50 year old who socially distances, particularly if the older person already has natural immunity.

And then there are obvious fairness concerns, a 50 year old criminal or bum should be last in line.


But thats besides the point. America has enough good vaccines where most people who want them are getting them, especially so within the last few weeks and the next few weeks.

Why isnt europe at the same state seb?
Seb
Member
Wed Mar 31 13:39:01
Sanm:

"No. An under 30 who can spread it to a lot of people, say a grocery store cashier, is clearly a better vaccination option for public health concerns than a 50 year old who socially distances, particularly if the older person already has natural immunity."

No, all the modelling for all realistic parameters show that the risk carried by of over 50s is such that the best and fastest way to reduce overall deaths and hospitalisations is to vaccinate over 50s.

"But thats besides the point. America has enough good vaccines where most people who want them are getting them"

Then why have only 28% of the population had at least one dose? 72% don't want a vaccine?

Seb
Member
Wed Mar 31 13:40:11

"And then there are obvious fairness concerns, a 50 year old criminal or bum should be last in line."

This is why we don't let idiots run public health policy. They start trying to pretend it's criminal justice policy instead.
Rugian
Member
Wed Mar 31 13:43:39
Seb thinks law-abiding people should be locked up in their homes while criminals in prison should get priority for vaccinations.

Sounds about right for Seb-logic. Lock up the good citizens, let the bad ones go free.
Sam Adams
Member
Wed Mar 31 13:49:36
Right off the bat, about 25% of population is kids too young to even be legally vaxed seb. Another 15% have had it and have some natural immunity, and might not prioritize a vax as much. Many youngest adults also dont care as much and are lazy about it, a 20 year old for example has less incentive as their personal risk is very low. Theres a good 10-20% of the population that are jesus freaks or africans that dont believe in science and are scared of the vax.

So yes seb, most adults who really want the vax will be getting it in the next few weeks or have it already.
Rugian
Member
Wed Mar 31 13:51:35
March 31:

% of US that has received at least 1 dose: 29.4% (+0.5%)

% of US fully vaccinated: 16.4% (+0.3%)
Sam Adams
Member
Wed Mar 31 13:51:37
Yup, seb's fuzzy logic on full display right there. "Vaccinate the prisoners and mooches before good citizens".

Utterly daft.
Sam Adams
Member
Wed Mar 31 13:54:57
I love how seb comes up with the most retarded, unfair ideas, and then wonders why no one ever trusts or listens to government bureaucrats.
jergul
large member
Wed Mar 31 14:40:45
Sammy
The Federal Government should vaccinate its own first.

*Federal politicians
*Federal appointees
*Federal employees/Federal security forces
*Dependents of above
Then
Federal citizens (DC, Indian reserves, territories)
Then
Federal charges (federal prisoners/detainees
Then
US States
Then
Rest of the world.

==============

That was your logic, right? Look after your own first before giving vaccines to others?
jergul
large member
Wed Mar 31 14:43:21
"Right off the bat, about 25% of population is kids too young to even be legally vaxed seb. Another 15% have had it and have some natural immunity, and might not prioritize a vax as much. Many youngest adults also dont care as much and are lazy about it, a 20 year old for example has less incentive as their personal risk is very low. Theres a good 10-20% of the population that are jesus freaks or africans that dont believe in science and are scared of the vax."

Looks like Sammy is starting to see why less than 50% of the US population will be fully vaccinated in 2021.
Sam Adams
Member
Wed Mar 31 14:55:12
We are going to hit 50% vaxed in may-june, jergul.

RIP
Sam Adams
Member
Wed Mar 31 14:56:04
I think you are confusing "not rushing to get vaxed" with "not vaxed".
Sam Adams
Member
Wed Mar 31 14:58:31
Also kids are going to get vaxed before 2022. At least in the US. Dunno about you slowpokes in europe. We might have enough extra vaxes to give to your kids before then, but we might do mexico first, and will almost certainly do canada before you.
Seb
Member
Wed Mar 31 16:33:45
Sam:

So you are saying you don't expect the US to reach the same level as the UK?
Seb
Member
Wed Mar 31 16:35:41
Or that the US population is dumber and more stupid than the UK population: the disparity in numbers isn't due to any capacity constraint, just various forms of vaccine hesitancy?
Seb
Member
Wed Mar 31 16:37:06
Drugs aren't currently licensed for kids, but we started the first trials (globally) a few months back.

Kids will be phase 3, along with variant boosters.
Sam Adams
Member
Wed Mar 31 16:39:53
Who knows. Who cares. You have to pass alabama in mean income before i pay much attention to the details of your population.
Sam Adams
Member
Wed Mar 31 16:44:36
We were planning an italy wine drinking and alps hiking trip too. Guess that will have to wait for another summer, as you euros are so far behind in your vaxxing.
habebe
Member
Wed Mar 31 17:47:25
How is this still being talked about?

Jergul can shoot for pipe dreams because Norway is now a hermit nation.
Y2A
Member
Wed Mar 31 18:06:37
For comparison purposes, Norway is at 12% at least partially vaccinated.

http://www...ovid-vaccinations-tracker.html
Y2A
Member
Wed Mar 31 18:08:25
For further comparison, our worst state is Alabama which is at 23.6% at least partially vaccinated.


http://www...us/covid-19-vaccine-doses.html
Sam Adams
Member
Wed Mar 31 20:49:21
Lulz its always alabama.
Sam Adams
Member
Wed Mar 31 20:55:52
Which makes it even funnier that seb is less wealthy than alabama
Seb
Member
Thu Apr 01 05:33:28
Also, Sam needs to check his stats again.

UK GDP per capita in 2019 was higher than Alabama.

And the pound has gone up against the dollar since 2019.
Seb
Member
Thu Apr 01 05:33:52
Sam:

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/31/world/johnson-and-johnson-vaccine-mixup.html

US J&J delayed due to US factory mixup.

"Which makes it even funnier that seb is less wealthy than alabama"

Or more hilarious that the US is behind the UK in vaccine uptake?

Seb
Member
Thu Apr 01 05:47:37
"The error does not affect any Johnson & Johnson doses that are currently being delivered and used nationwide, including the shipments that states are counting on next week. All those doses were produced in the Netherlands, where operations have been fully approved by federal regulators."

Oh dear Sam. Not only is the US relying on a vaccine developed in Europe, is manufactured there too, because the US plant couldn't handle the technology.

Does the US actually have a vaccine?
Pfizer - invented in Germany
Astra Zenica - invented in
Seb
Member
Thu Apr 01 05:48:34
UK.
Johnson and Johnson - invented in Europe.

Moderna I suppose.

Sam Adams
Member
Thu Apr 01 09:50:34
"UK GDP per capita in 2019 was higher than Alabama."

Thats wierd seb. Why does this list place the UK significantly lower than alabama? Could it be because you are always completely wrong and the exact opposite of what you say is generally the correct answer?

http://en...._states_by_GDP_per_capita#2019

Trump levels of stupid with this one. Can stare right at the simplest possible math and still be wrong. Back to kindergarten you go.
Sam Adams
Member
Thu Apr 01 09:54:54
"Or more hilarious that the US is behind the UK in vaccine uptake?"

Wrong again. You are forgetting to modify your numbers for the shittyness of your AZ vaccine.

In any reasonable measure of effectiveness of vaxes, the UK is far behind.
Seb
Member
Thu Apr 01 10:56:01
As a guess, because someone as crap as you edited the wiki page.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1038292/alabama-gdp-per-capita/


Alabama GDP/capita 41,389

https://www.statista.com/statistics/263600/gross-domestic-product-gdp-per-capita-in-the-united-kingdom/


UK GDP/capita 42,378


Seb
Member
Thu Apr 01 10:57:39
"You are forgetting to modify your numbers for the shittyness of your AZ vaccine."

SAM: "your vaccines don't count wAaaa"

Did you thank the German Turkish immigrant when you got your jab?
Rugian
Member
Thu Apr 01 11:01:06
^You just compared chained 2012 US dollars for Alabama to current prices for the UK.

Goddammit you're a slippery fuck Seb. Whoever said statistics don't lie has never seen you handling them.
Sam Adams
Member
Thu Apr 01 11:19:10
Lol seb you dimbtard. 2012 huh? Hah.
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