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Utopia Talk / Politics / anyone use alibaba?
Sam Adams
Mon Mar 29 13:29:19
There are some crazy low prices on solar panels and batteries there. If that shit is legit... that would be impressive and would make whole home solar practical in many places.
Mon Mar 29 14:27:30
Sure, you can gloat about the fact that your products have been manufactured in China, under extremely unsafe working conditions, children have likely died along the supply chain of building your products. But once the gloating is over, you will have to live the rest of your life knowing that Mexican immigrants could have built those solar panels. Instead they had to pick potatoes in Idaho, live in poverty and now their children are looting and burning cars in America.

Choose wisely, Sam.
Mon Mar 29 15:12:17
Does America use immigrants to pick potatoes on the fields? Doesn’t the US have machines like China?

I had to google it and... wow the US are using slave labour on the fields:

Idaho Uses Prison Labor to Pick Potatoes - WSJwww.wsj.com › articles

18 okt. 2011 — They're convicts, deployed by Idaho's Department of Correction to pick, sort and pack potatoes during harvest season.


Mon Mar 29 15:47:09
The USA has a long history of using black people to work themselves sweaty on fields under the scorching sun. Apparently why they brought them over in the first place. I think they call the activity football, but they use their hands to pass the ball around. *rolls eyes* I know.
Sam Adams
Mon Mar 29 15:49:39
Mon Mar 29 15:56:31
u betta believe that shit.
China tools, china everything better.
China kevlar, china wenches, china bikes, anything u can find. its better. and cheaper usually.

Mon Mar 29 15:58:49
SAWC is a work camp located in the small, eastern Idaho town of St. Anthony and is designed to house 262 low-risk, minimum and community-custody male residents. The facility's primary focus is to provide a vocational work project opportunities offering full-time, constructive, paid employment to residents. This is accomplished through contracted work and public service projects with government agencies, non-profit organizations and private employers. The program helps residents develop good work habits, a positive work ethic and marketable work skills while providing a financial resource to meet immediate and future needs.
Tue Mar 30 02:49:40
SA - solar is only for one of three reasons.

- Emotional do gooder points.

- Genuinely trying to make the world a better place.

- Zombie apocalypse.


There is no economic reason to install solar panels, and lots of downsides (especially for people that cannot afford the solar panels, and finance them in some capacity or another such as PACE, lease, PPA, and so on) (also staggering transactional costs if you look to sell a home that still has non-free/clear solar).

Look, if solar made economic sense, then California wouldn't have had to mandate it by law on all new construction... people would have just gone "gee willickers, this makes sense, install 50 solar panels on my house please!"

But, they didn't.

The solar lobby had to literally bribe elected officials to make people put solar panels on the houses of people in the various deserts of Southern California, because they had no choice. Think about that!

So, economically, it does not make sense. Period.
Tue Mar 30 04:38:07
I can see some benefits:

1. You produce your own green electricity. This means that you do not have to buy as much electricity from the public electricity grid, which means that the costs for your household are reduced and you don't have to worry about rising electricity prices.

2. During the summer your panels may produce a surplus of electricity that you may be able to sell. Save the money for the winter when you may have to buy electricity from the public grid, because the panels won't produce as much electricity during the winter. If it possible to store the surplus of electricity for the winter, you could do that also instead of selling your surplus.

3. Make a contribution to the environment.


1. High initial cost. Which may be why Californians has not installed "50 solar panels on their houses".

2. Check the maintenance costs (not sure if it is a con).

3. You need sunlight.
Tue Mar 30 05:49:50
" but they use their hands to pass the ball around"

da negro wuz brout in 2 da contrie 400 yeers ago 4 basketbal?

imagien how litel crime wed haev if we deportid da negro bak 2 afrika wear thay belong
Tue Mar 30 06:03:17
"So, economically, it does not make sense. Period."

They tend to pay themselves back within 5-7 years. After that it's all profit.

And that's here in Belgium, where the weather isn't that awesome.

I know a couple from Phoenix who get paid by their provider monthly for the extra power they put on the grid. They've been turning a profit far earlier than that timeframe.
Sam Adams
Tue Mar 30 10:45:42
"There is no economic reason to install solar panels"

While this was true recently, solar panels are becoming cheap enough where it is starting to make economic sense in some places.

You should consider solar panels if you have a couple of these:

A south facing roof
High electricity costs
Lots of sun
Can do some of the work yourself
Net metering in your area or an electric car that spends its sunlight hours at home

Furthmore, batteries are now cheap enough that its a decent backup option especially for "
- Zombie apocalypse."

That california pols felt the need to mandate it is commie BS of course, but i suspect most new houses with a south facing roof in your state do make economic sense to install them.

"And that's here in Belgium, where the weather isn't that awesome."

Ya, your high electricity prices makes up for reduced sun.
Tue Mar 30 22:10:08
I seen they made a breakthrough in structure batteries (think a wall or car frame that doubles as a battery)
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