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Utopia Talk / Politics / The "insurrection" becomes "trespassing"
Rugian
Member
Wed Mar 31 06:29:23
Surprise! The histrionic portrayal of January 6 as an "insurrection" and "sedition" immediately fell apart the moment the cases went up before the judiciary.

"Many Capitol rioters unlikely to serve jail time

The cases could embarrass the Biden administration, which has portrayed the Jan. 6 siege as a dire threat to democracy."

http://www...-capitol-riot-jail-time-478440
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Wed Mar 31 12:29:12
doesn't mean much, it's about what you can prove in court

the ones bashing police at the gates or trashing offices would be harder to identify than the ones posting selfies once they seized the Capitol & anyone could get in (a ridiculous thing to have been allowed to happen... the doorways & windows should've been clogged w/ cultist corpses)
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Wed Mar 31 12:45:43
seems like kind of a stupid assessment in that article

"almost a quarter of the more than 230 defendants formally and publicly charged so far face only misdemeanors"

so over 75% face felonies? that's an embarrassment to Biden?

seems like an embarrassment to the "zero threat" Fraud guy, who is entirely responsible for their presence & beliefs...
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Wed Mar 31 13:03:41
Ok, but legally, OJ isn’t a murderer.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Wed Mar 31 13:27:59
well to correct Rugian's misleading title, they aren't changing insurrection to trespassing

unsurprisingly -some- of them only charged w/ trespassing (if already 170+ charged w/ felonies as they suggest by the excerpt i quoted, that seems more notable to me)


another retarded statement later:
"The prospect of dozens of Jan. 6 rioters cutting deals for minor sentences could be hard to explain for the Biden administration, which has characterized the Capitol Hill mob as a uniquely dangerous threat."

not hard to explain at all, & doesn't make the heaps of others not a threat
Rugian
Member
Wed Mar 31 13:50:27
Tw

Insurrection and seditious are chargeable crimes under federal law.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/part-I/chapter-115

If January 6 was actually an event of insurrection, one would think that prosecutors would charge accordingly.

The reality is that January 6 was simply a larger-than-normal protest that became a riot when a few people turned violent. There was no plot to overthrow the government, and the charges filed so far indicate exactly that.
jergul
large member
Wed Mar 31 14:46:38
What is your logic Ruggy?

Violent regime change is only a crime if it succeeds?

tumbleweed
the wanderer
Wed Mar 31 14:56:49
the article doesn't say no one being charged w/ insurrection or sedition

the seemingly stupid article is claiming only that not everyone arrested is being charged w/ a serious crime (as would be expected)... thus embarrassing for Biden?...


"
According to the statutory definition of sedition, it is a crime for two or more people within the jurisdiction of the United States:

• To conspire to overthrow or destroy by force the government of the United States or to level war against them;
• To oppose by force the authority of the United States government; to prevent, hinder, or delay by force the execution of any law of the United States; or
• To take, seize, or possess by force any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof.
"

yeah, 2 & 3 factually happened (& those are 'or's not 'and's)... w/ #2 being Trump's specific intent (otherwise why is he noting Pence failed them... & repeatedly implying the election outcome could be changed if only that particular voting that day prevented)

so sedition was committed, Trump probably won't get hit w/ it since he didn't actually join the mob (as he told them he was doing)... but he -should- be charged in a just world by the Charles Manson principle, he's definitely who led to the misinformed & angry mob (as even Mitch agrees)
Rugian
Member
Wed Mar 31 15:08:50
Jergul

Quite the opposite. Attempting violent regime change is only a crime if you lose...if you win, it's not.

Point is January 6 wasn't such an attempt.
Rugian
Member
Wed Mar 31 15:28:27
Tw

There's been a bunch of destruction of property and disorderly charges thrown around....not insurrection/sedition.

Prosecutors normally overcharge defendents to pressure them into pleading guilty to lesser charges. The fact that they aren't even bothering to overcharge insurrection/sedition says that they have zero faith that those would ever stick.

And no, marching around in the Rotunda as an act of protest isn't "sedition," thats just ridiculous...

By your standard, would this be considered "sedition?"

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zeLDmITyAG0

How about this one?

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dBmvcU5LF8A
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Wed Mar 31 16:41:16
"to prevent, hinder, or delay by force the execution of any law of the United States"

this happened... in session congress fled for their lives...

"To take, seize, or possess by force any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof"

this happened too

------------

for starters, no force in either of your examples, so both fail easily

-if- no one gets charged with sedition, it isn't because they didn't commit it, it's pity being taken on them for being fooled by a conman
Habebe
Member
Wed Mar 31 21:26:59
OR more realistically the actions do not meet the legal requirements to be called as such.

I said before when everyone was up in arms over the last going to Mexico with her job being allowed to go.

She was charged with bottom of the barrel crimes.Like disorderly conduct ( citations , lower than a misdemeanor) some sort of low level trespassing.

Slaps on the wrist.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Wed Mar 31 21:42:58
i've quoted the legal requirements twice

& it's self-evident they are met

again:
"
• To oppose by force the authority of the United States government; to prevent, hinder, or delay by force the execution of any law of the United States; or

• To take, seize, or possess by force any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof.
"

both of those factually occurred (& you don't need both, either one is enough)

& you obviously add judgment in deciding on charging, but these aren't minor violations of those, they are gross violations
obaminated
Member
Thu Apr 01 20:18:14
Tw, it wasnt an insurrection. No matter how desperately you want it to be. It wasnt.
kargen
Member
Thu Apr 01 21:30:42
The siege on the federal building in Portland was much more an insurrection than what happened at the Capitol Building. People involved with either should face the consequences of their crimes.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Thu Apr 01 22:16:21
you know the problem with you two being constantly misinformed by your sources (thinking the capitol insurrection was nothing & that no Portland/BLM/Antifa rioters got arrested) is you get this:

http://twitter.com/bad_takes/status/1375251130586963968

^some guy saying his/your side will indeed pick fascists to lead as his/your side supposedly all being treated like criminals whereas the left doesn't have to obey the laws... & Tucker agreeing

a similar message pushed by your cult leader... that these seditionist "patriots" being "persecuted" while claiming nothing happens to BLM rioters

that isn't actually happening but you two prove that that is what is being brainwashed into millions

go put on Antifa or BLM gear and hit a cop w/ a hockey stick, see how it works out
obaminated
Member
Thu Apr 01 22:43:57
you are a fucking moron. "your side" literally cordoned off a section of a major city, declaring they owned it and banned authorities from entering it while people got murdered. Your side did that, you fucking idiot.
obaminated
Member
Thu Apr 01 22:45:31
i honestly do not know why or how people like TW and Cuckhat exist in a society. social welfare must keep them above water because their mindset would make them a clear net negative to anything community that housed them.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Thu Apr 01 23:58:15
CHAZ - established June 8

first shooting - June 20th... of a teenage black rapper... so not like it was rampant violence going on, people sat around & did art things

& to blow your mind, the # of buildings burned: 0
Wrath of Orion
Member
Fri Apr 02 00:28:15
A retarded alcoholic ranting about others being a drain on society. Now that's some funny shit.
Y2A
Member
Fri Apr 02 00:31:59
"A retarded alcoholic ranting about others being a drain on society. Now that's some funny shit."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
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