Utopia Talk / Politics / Crypto continued

Seb Member	Sat May 08 04:19:17 jergul: "haha! Haddock was always higher priced than cod when I was a deckhand." It's cheaper in the chippy, but you get that long. "Ultimately, its about selling the provenance, not the product. This requires faithful actors along with regulators and controllers. As it is today." Yeah, and blockchain is a technology that makes the integrity of the data less questionable, when supply chain fraud is about the questionable correspondence of that data to reality. Hence I think it's the wrong technology. "Dna testing is down to 3 dollars a shot for cattle now. We are fast approaching feasible use of dna to underpin the connection between product and blockchain." Probably wouldn't work for fish unless the time taken improves as well as cost. "You don't need very many markers to check." You will if you want unique identifier. But all in all it seems to me we are going to a massively over engineered solution compared to conventional approaches. People have tried to use bit coin for food provenance (and failed). "Any problem you raise is a problem that already exists, yet we happily certify fish products anyway." Indeed - that's the point - blockchain doesn't solve any of the real problems and until they are resolved the additional features of blockchain add no value. "I think physical tagging is the way to go. Just because temperature data is so vitally important to fish quality and you need the temperature tag to follow the product consistently to provide data of the products "real" age." Agree, but there's very little point in putting that data on the blockchain when the main thing as a buyer or consumer that you need to trust is whether this tag stayed with the fish or was tampered with. nhill: "This makes a lot of assumptions about the product in question. Certainly, it's an obstacle with Cod, but, let's face it, that was a strange use case to begin with." Pick a tangible product :-) "Are you familiar with how SSL works? It's a chain of trust.It contains a degree of centralization, about as much as a notary." Yes, but given you need to trust individuals in the system in order to guarantee the conformance of the data to the physical goods, that's no problem. "Or are you thinking an actual certificate like a diploma is being passed around? Lmao" Nhill, that's strike two. It is clear I'm talking digital signatures not psychic paper. Don't join the bad faith crowd. "It'll be digital and could be tied to the item any number of ways, one example would be an RFID with a TPM chip. Both are very inexpensive these days, but obviously this works best with luxury items (which are the subjects of counterfeiting anyways)." Yup, and the main form of counterfeiting is substitution. And as the manufacturer is the main trusted source, why do we need the features of a blockchain? The integrity of the data is based on the faith you hold that the label on the good hasn't been moved to a fake good, and the faith you hold in the manufacturer. "No point of failure. Manufacturers can't modify/hide it, and neither can a bad actor." However you trust the manufacturer not to have inserted fake goods at source. Your manufacturer can also just use a published Merkle tree to prove integrity of the data "None of this really matters that much. The point is it enables new capabilities" It's finding applications where this is actually true in implementation and is also valuable that turns out to be more challenging.
jergul large member	Sat May 08 05:57:31 Seb People be stupid. Haddock is by far the superior batter fried fish. The primary price is still correct. Haddock is worth more. Solid providence increases the value of the physical item. Block chain tech is suited to documenting providence. The core problem is not fraud (as much fun as it is imagining the Cartian evil genus seeking to perpetually mislead). It is value loss to what may very well be high grade cod, but without documentation, there is no way to tell.
jergul large member	Sat May 08 05:59:26 Right now the status of buying cod is pretty much the same as if you buy "a car" You are not going to want to pay too much for it as "a car" could be a lada or a porche. Who knows?
nhill Member	Sat May 08 12:34:05 > It's finding applications where this is actually true in implementation and is also valuable that turns out to be more challenging. Right. It's new tech. Takes a while for the use cases to solidify. Crypto is already a killer app for blockchain. >Nhill, that's strike two. It is clear I'm talking digital signatures not psychic paper. Don't join the bad faith crowd. Yeah, my bad. I skimmed over your post, should have known better. FWIW some of your wording suggested physical, but later you corrected it. > However you trust the manufacturer not to have inserted fake goods at source. Your manufacturer can also just use a published Merkle tree to prove integrity of the data We aren't trying to prevent the manufacturer from counterfeiting. > Pick a tangible product :-) Ok, a Rolex. It could have a TPM chip on board tied to an RFID public key attached non-visibly on the inside. The RFID would be coupled by the TPM, and the TPM can't be removed (that's how a TPM works).
Seb Member	Sat May 08 14:11:47 Jergul: "Block chain tech is suited to documenting providence." What about it makes you think that? Is it simply the integrity of the ledger? If so I'd suggest Merkel Tree works just as well. Nhill: "We aren't trying to prevent the manufacturer from counterfeiting" Indeed, but they are the first people to mint a record and the ultimate arbiter of authenticity - so again the question is why use a block chain when we can (and often have) a digital certificate system maintained by the manufacturer - what's the value add to the manufacturer, seller or buyer? Rolex's are mechanical so pretty hard to make it difficult to separate the TPM as there's no electrical systems to integrate it to - but agree that when you have something where a TPM can be physically integrated it can work.
Habebe Member	Sat May 08 14:53:57 http://www...Bmj4lOc6XQJsVSmEBoCI4wQAvD_BwE Found these courses that hopefully get me to me to learn about different crypto and earn small but free money in the process.
Habebe Member	Sat May 08 21:31:12 So I seen Visa and I think MasterCard accepting crypto USD (which is tethered to the USD) for payment. Now my question is does this mean I can essentially barter non monetized/taxed crypto for goods like say a new chainsaw? So say I bought $100 of bitcoin, its now worth $1000. I transfer that to the USD pegged coin that Visa accepts ( I beleive I incur a gas fees to do this) I know have $1000 crypto USD. Next I buy a new chainsaw with my visa card and transfer the 3-400 from my crypto USD wallet to pay visa back. I think I would incur a 2nd gas charge to pay back Visa plus any Visa fees that would apply. But that $900 income doesn't count as income and never gets taxed and such. Am I understanding this correctly?
nhill Member	Sat May 08 23:15:49 Crypto tax is complicated and I can't give you advice. But you'll have to pay capital gains or incur capital losses whenever you pay with crypto, as it's currently considered property from a tax perspective. If you question is whether or not you can evade taxes with it, the answer is the same for crypto as it is for cash-- only if you can find a complicit party.
habebe Member	Sun May 09 01:16:43 Oh, all then I hate you and will build a small temple tomorrow to better focus my hatred...nah. I just thought capital gains were only taxed when you turn it into USD. This felt like more of a better.
nhill Member	Sun May 09 01:32:52 I'm not a tax expert. Someone can confirm or deny it, but my understanding is once it's used as payment it's considered a capital gain or loss.
chuck Member	Sun May 09 01:41:56 nhill, I'm definitely in the "tulips" camp and have been since I started really discussing crypto with IRL friends (2016ish?). I'm here to say that your internet enthusiasm has finally won me over. I've opened a Coinbase account (ignoring the binance advice), set up 2FA, added my bank account and went in with a daily max buy. I am excited to be a low info crypto degenerate after all this time being sensible in my investment decisions. I will not be reading any white papers or applying any sort of financial acumen, just gambling. Bought into ETH at about 1% off of all time high, already bought a 2nd coin and made back the STEEP transaction fee as well as $2500 in exchange for three hours of refreshing the page (as well as the sudden, wanton change in risk appetite). Some people say that everybody is a genius in a bull market, but I know I'm special. Tomorrow I'll buy in again!
chuck Member	Sun May 09 01:53:46 I spoke too soon. While I was writing that last post, I had to update gains from $1600 to $2500. Came back to post this one when I saw I was up $3500. Now up $4500. Will be retired by Tuesday after next at this rate. Thanks to nhill's new crypto plan, I'm the envy if all my fraands.
Habebe Member	Sun May 09 02:40:35 Chuck, Thats awesome! Congratulations. I'm on a similar camp about not fully grasping crypto. like I get the gist, Im just not that excited about it other than as an investment. Now that said, I fear crypto in general is our modern day tulips ATM.I fear the crash too much to invest heavy into crypto. I also think we will see surging inflation and a huge drop in the stock market soonish. I do think Ethereum is then one that may weayher the storm, and I still think is undervalued but may have a significant dip still. Im planning to hold my cash in base metals until the dip at which point I'll try to transfer it over to stocks and crypto on the cheap. Copper, nickel, Iron will all go up as the world invests in green tech and infrastructure. But I'm moderately retarded on investing so take any investing "advice" with that knowledge and a pinch of salt.
Habebe Member	Sun May 09 02:41:39 Chuck, curiosity, how much was that transaction fee?
chuck Member	Sun May 09 02:58:46 About 1.49%.
chuck Member	Sun May 09 03:00:20 (Of USD -> crypto funds)
nhill Member	Sun May 09 03:27:05 May the odds be ever in your favor.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Sun May 09 04:27:09 And that is really all you need to get, just like most people can’t tell you how a car and combustion engine work, but they can operate it and do wonderful things with it, that the people who can explain it, can’t. I always assumed chuck was a candidate :) he is thinking too much like myself on organizational issue. May the ledger confirm Nhill’s transactions, the herald of the new Era of Tech bro Utopia, of Utopia. May the ledger confirm you all.
nhill Member	Sun May 09 15:15:06 HOOAH!
nhill Member	Sun May 09 15:17:31 BTW pro.coinbase.com has a better fee structure. http://www.coinbase.com is a honey pot for newbies. You can transfer your coinbase.com assets to pro.coinbase.com and avoid the majority of transactions fees.
habebe Member	Sun May 09 15:51:21 Nhill, Nice. I was looking into GWEI the other day and seen that Curve had some cheap, especially if you dont mind waiting.the slow.30 minute option fluctuated but was pretty cheap comparatively.
habebe Member	Sun May 09 15:52:26 http://new...-down-crypto-trading-platform/ Something called coinseed is getting shutdown.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Sun May 09 16:14:39 nhill What are some other things to think about in Liquity? You mentioned the tail side risk of losing 10% of collateral, what other risks inherent to the platform? What makes is wasabix riskier?
nhill Member	Sun May 09 16:33:57 > What are some other things to think about in Liquity? Well, you are locking up your Ethereum, so you have a commitment to it that's harder to break. Also rules out trading Ethereum if you want to be a trader (although you could technically use the 75% loan and put it on an exchange to trade). > You mentioned the tail side risk of losing 10% of collateral, what other risks inherent to the platform? Bug & hacks are always a risk with new projects. There is a risk of lack of liquidity in their stability pools. If everything hits the fan all at once and the liquidity pools can't backstop the outflows you could have some dead money in $LUSD and $LQTY. You can mitigate that risk by converting your $LUSD & $LQTY to something else. > What makes is wasabix riskier? It's a community ran grassroots project that hasn't been audited/vetted by professionals yet. The advantage of that is that grassroots projects are generally seen as more trustworthy compared to the usual project that has about 35% institutional stake in the tokens. But the disadvantage is they are more susceptible to bugs/hacks as community run projects move fast and don't get third party audits very often. Wasabix is kinda like the free-range, organic version of Liquity. Liquity has a lot of institutional support and is vetted thoroughly. It depends on your risk tolerance. My risk tolerance is insanely high because I could lose it all and still live off the profits I've taken already. Hence why I use Wasabix but generally don't recommend others use it unless they have a high risk appetite.
chuck Member	Sun May 09 16:40:47 nhill: Yeah, I'd seen the advice about Pro Coinbase versus Coinbase. I wanted to avoid analysis paralysis because when I decided to buy some ETH yesterday afternoon it was at $3500 per and when I was actioning the intention around 11pm EDT it was already >10% higher. Up 10k right now. Doubled down on my moneymaking position at 2x the original price rather than taking profits, so if my foolishness is rewarded or punished.
chuck Member	Sun May 09 16:41:32 *so remains to be seen if my foolishness [...].
chuck Member	Sun May 09 16:43:04 (and the implication that it is foolishness either way is intentional...)
nhill Member	Sun May 09 16:45:02 If curious: $3908 $3895 $3858 $3826 $3629 $3593 $3554 These are the Ethereum Resistance Targets if we can't hold >$3940. I think $3500 is safe right now from a technical analysis and Orderflow standpoint. Out biggest flash crash risk is around ~$2500 right now, in the event of a major outflow from crypto as a whole. That would be a fantastic buying opportunity.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Sun May 09 16:47:15 The gist of the story is that you are providing ether and additional coins in different capacity, sometimes as collateral, some as fees, to maintain the system. Is that good summary? I can’t help it, but it feels a little too good. Doubling your money in 1 year. How long do you gather this can go on? What are normalized gains further up the road for players in tyd decentralized finance?
nhill Member	Sun May 09 16:48:11 $4170 is the current upside. I have a proprietary algorithm that combines technical support & resistances levels weighted by Orderflow. It's highly respected in the crypto community. These come from that. I don't trade ETH anymore but still use the algorithm to get a feel for price action.
nhill Member	Sun May 09 16:49:38 > I can’t help it, but it feels a little too good. Doubling your money in 1 year. How long do you gather this can go on? What are normalized gains further up the road for players in tyd decentralized finance? It will continue as long as the adoption curve remains exponential. Once it becomes a normal or static adoption curve you will probably see closer to 5-10% gains yield farming the Liquity pools.
nhill Member	Sun May 09 16:50:24 The loan part is a lock though. As long as you remain collateralized and the entire system stays liquid it's free leverage.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Sun May 09 16:54:51 How do ETH and Chainlink compare/differ?
Dukhat Member	Sun May 09 16:56:43 Almost every other lucrative investment that exists, you try to hide knowledge about it to maximize your gains. Having more information than another person is power. But crytpo is all about evangelists trying to get other people excited about crypto ... because it’s a fucking pyramid scheme and pump and dump manipulation. Blockchain and all this other bullshit has its uses but that value is not the reason why crypto is priced so high. Its because billions of morons in china and india and places are bidding it up as a get-rich-quick scheme. But even assuming crypt is a currency, it’s a zero sum game. For every winner there will be a dozen losers since there’s no real value at all. It’s just a matter of when. Irrational exuberance can last years .
nhill Member	Sun May 09 16:58:21 Chainlink powers interactions between DeFi projects built on the Ethereum network. Chainlink is essentially irreplaceable at this point, much like ETH, due to network effects. Both ETH/LINK would have to try very hard to fail. It's their game to lose. $LINK is investing directly in DeFi. I consider $LINK to be the DeFi ETF. Ethereum is investing in the network which powers DeFi but can also be used for so much more (such as NFT, etc.). But really, both are pretty similar. I view ETH as an investment in the idea of a robust cryptographically-secured computing network. I view LINK as an investment in that network's most compelling use case: DeFi.
nhill Member	Sun May 09 17:01:06 Duckhat It's a game of extraordinary outcomes. 90% of all these projects will go to $0 and people will go broke. 9.9% of them have 5-10x upside. 0.1% of them have 1000x-100000x upside. They key is diversifying your portfolio and not getting hurt much by the 90% that go to zero. And if you can hit one of the luck 1000 baggers, none of the other ones even matter. Crypto is here to stay though, and currency is a small component of that.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Sun May 09 17:03:18 Are there less risky version of Defi tha liquity? How does it compare? Are there also less risky platforms than liquity? Or is that inherent to either institutional vs community operated?
nhill Member	Sun May 09 17:04:05 > But crytpo is all about evangelists trying to get other people excited about crypto ... because it’s a fucking pyramid scheme and pump and dump manipulation. Blockchain and all this other bullshit has its uses but that value is not the reason why crypto is priced so high. Its because billions of morons in china and india and places are bidding it up as a get-rich-quick scheme. It's true that 95% of the space is this now. From $DOGE to $CUMROCKET, most of these people will be shook loose once they each get caught holding a bag. But, to focus on the most ugly visible manifestation of a system and ignoring the beautiful fundamentals underlying the system is how people experience FOMO & Regret long term. It's people like myself (and many many others in the community) that are able to spot the potential and separate wheat from chaff that will benefit. I've already benefited to the point where I have enough money to live off interest for life.
nhill Member	Sun May 09 17:05:12 Nimatzo MakerDAO is the mature version of Liquity. It's far inferior, by my reckoning, but it's more mature and therefore more stable. You have to pay interest on your loan there.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Sun May 09 17:06:12 I meant liquidity pools in my first question.
nhill Member	Sun May 09 17:07:34 > Almost every other lucrative investment that exists, you try to hide knowledge about it to maximize your gains. Having more information than another person is power. This is why I'm talking about it now. :) I literally have no fucks given at this point. No reason to hide my knowledge or maximize my gains.
nhill Member	Sun May 09 17:11:32 > I meant liquidity pools in my first question. Liquidity pools are a pretty standard fundamental of DeFi. The key is proper incentivization which was difficult in the beginning but has ironed out now. If you want to get a feel for different services, check out http://defipulse.com/
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Sun May 09 17:21:15 Thanks man.
nhill Member	Sun May 09 17:22:07 Sure thing
chuck Member	Sun May 09 17:47:31 Up 37% on the last 19 hours, lol. Just don't get caught holding the tulips I guess...
nhill Member	Sun May 09 17:49:48 Prepare for volatility at some point. Eventually we'll see a mean reversion. But long-term your entry point looks great. Hold some cash to buy the dips :)
habebe Member	Sun May 09 17:51:15 Chuck, Yeah, better to have dropped out a little early than a little late. My buddy bought into Dogs at .035, now its aroumd .60, Ive been urging him to pull out.
chuck Member	Sun May 09 18:13:35 Holy shit lol. RLC FTW.
nhill Member	Sun May 09 18:19:46 > Now that said, I fear crypto in general is our modern day tulips ATM. That analogy is very cringe-worthy. Tulips did not have VISA/Mastercard/Paypal/Tesla/SpaceX/Square/Grayscale Investments all invested in its future. Each of these companies has a vested interest in the success of cryptocurrency, as they all have leveraged it considerably in their recent success. Tulips, on the other hand? Its vested interest came in the form of get-rich-scheme gamblers. To even use the analogy shows you are a bit out of touch. Keep researching.
habebe Member	Sun May 09 18:43:48 Nhill, I think a large amount of the investors are get rich quick scheme gamblers. Yes crypto is inherently more valuable and useful than a tulip bulb. But many of many investors are similarly minded to Tulip investors. Maybe a better analogy is the mid to late 90s tech stocks.
nhill Member	Sun May 09 18:49:33 Ah, yes, from that perspective I understand. Cryptocurrency does have its own form of Tulip Mania. They're called Shitcoins. Like $CUMROCKET and $DOGE. Coins with little or no fundamentals that people are buying just to get rich. But don't mistake that for cryptocurrency as a whole. It's simply the most visible component right now, but the trend will die soon enough.
nhill Member	Sun May 09 18:50:24 Shitcoins are a very small part of the ecosystem. Losing them will actually be a good thing, as that money will get pumped into legitimate projects like Ethereum.
habebe Member	Sun May 09 19:39:56 For as little as I know about them, Ethereum seems IMHO to be the most intriguing and holds the best long term value.as of now. But even as good coins go, many of the small investors in them arenjust buying them because they think it will make them rich.Without doing even the miniscule.research that I have done ( which is very miniscule) You dont have to be able to.write solidity to know Ethereum has value. But it's good to know WHY something has value, is it pump.and dump or can it really be usefull? Ifnits a.coin , how much capital will it take.to gwt it to X to estimate top.end gains etc.
habebe Member	Sun May 09 19:51:15 Which was also.common during the internet bonanza in the 90s. Amazon was a great stock to buy, as was apple. However some people just got lucky, or bought in on hype into lesser companies because they gambled on hype not even having a grasp of things which is common in New markets.
Dukhat Member	Sun May 09 20:09:06 Ethereum has value because it's actually attached to somethign ... digital pieces of art ... otherwise known as jpegs which you can download by right-clicking or "prnt scrn." Amazon and Apple produce things and services people want to buy and will continue to want to want to buy in the near and distant future. Crypto is 99.99% speculators and .01% drug dealers and criminals using it for its actual intended use. Ride the wave if you must, but the price of anything is determined by supply and demand. All this talk about blockchain and all this other bullshit is gaslighting; it has no meaning to what fundamentally matters to the price of crypto. The demand is entirely driven by wild fantasies of wealth by the global poor and the global stupid. You can definitely become rich off crypto, but the time to buy was last year and the time to cash out is probably pretty soon. Ride the wave if you want, but remember, there's nothing stopping your or cryptos fall other than more speculators.
nhill Member	Sun May 09 20:16:06 > Ethereum has value because it's actually attached to somethign ... digital pieces of art ... otherwise known as jpegs which you can download by right-clicking or "prnt scrn." Lol you haven't even researched the first thing about Ethereum. Completely clueless. Even pathetic from a trolling point of view. You really are a shell of your former self.
nhill Member	Sun May 09 20:18:22 > drug dealers and criminals using it for its actual intended use. Not all crypto can be used for criminal activities, and the ones that are used that way are the ones that attempt to maintain a high degree of privacy. That's the tradeoff. Anonymity comes at a price. Your perspective is a pinpoint view into a massive ecosystem.
nhill Member	Sun May 09 20:19:11 > Amazon and Apple produce things and services people want to buy and will continue to want to want to buy in the near and distant future. As does Decentralized Finance. It produces every financial service known to man, from insurance to stock exchanges.
nhill Member	Sun May 09 20:22:18 > Ride the wave if you must, but the price of anything is determined by supply and demand. All this talk about blockchain and all this other bullshit is gaslighting; it has no meaning to what fundamentally matters to the price of crypto. The demand is entirely driven by wild fantasies of wealth by the global poor and the global stupid. This is a poor man's mindset. You're seeing things in the inverse. The core technology behind the cryptocurrency wave has incredible fundamentals, but it's almost impossible to see it with the shitcoin hype. This is why, even now, you can obtain financial freedom just by immersing yourself into the intricacies (clearly you haven't even read a Wikipedia article) and making calculated trades. That's only made possible by laggards like Duckhat, so I guess I should thank you.
nhill Member	Sun May 09 20:23:48 > You can definitely become rich off crypto, but the time to buy was last year and the time to cash out is probably pretty soon. Getting rich isn't even the point. It's a side effect right now, but cryptocurrency is about much more than trading/investing. And the only ones getting rich are the ones able to spot the trends. Or the ones that happen into it by dumb luck. Either way, Duckhat is in the average portion of the bell curve.
habebe Member	Sun May 09 20:46:39 From what I gather Ethereum has 2 big things that offer it value. Dapps- Apps used lonked to the currency. Nhill could probably explain that better. Smart contracts based on Ethereum. Which is basically a contract written in code. If requirements ABC are met then X happens. And to be part of the network you have to own Ethereum to partake.That isnt the case with most other coins. Thats how I understand it so far.Again Nhill probably has a better grasp on it and can fix anything I got wrong.
habebe Member	Sun May 09 20:47:48 "Getting rich isn't even the point. It's a side effect right now, but cryptocurrency is about much more than trading/investing." Like the early days of FB, Amazon and Google.Today we can understand their real contributions to society.
nhill Member	Sun May 09 23:17:18 Yeah, more or less. You can think of Ethereum as a decentralized cloud computing platform that supports the creation of decentralized (most often financial) applications and powers their implementation. Uses of the platform pay miners in Gas (Ether) and that makes Ether a valuable commodity. This is because there's: a) A finite amount. b) Miners rarely sell their Ethereum. They save it for staking Ethereum 2.0. These two facts are why Chuck just made more money in 2 days than Duckhat will make all month.
nhill Member	Sun May 09 23:21:49 Ether is a valuable commodity that is in high demand right now. Just like lumber, for example. Will the demand decrease eventually? Of course. It will decrease & increase. Commodities can be volatile. But there's nothing but upside on a long enough timespan because we are just starting to discover all the paradigm-shifting changes Ether can effect on finance.
habebe Member	Sun May 09 23:33:46 Yeah I dont fully get Ethereum classic and 1 and 2 other than 1 and 2 are supposed to merge and this will make transaction fees cheaper.
nhill Member	Sun May 09 23:48:00 Ethereum Classic (formerly Ethereum) is where a hedge fund got almost fifty million dollars stolen. Ethereum (currently Ethereum) was created to erase that from existence. People still use Ethereum Classic, but it doesn't have near as much value as Ethereum. How that all happened is complex, but it boils down to a bug in the code. That's the risk of these projects right now. Bugs can have disastrous financial consequences. Ethereum 1.0 has miners competing to mine a block and get the reward in gas fees. Ethereum 2.0 has miners staking their Ethereum and each miner gets to mine the amount of transactions relative to their overall stake of the network. For example, if I staked 50% of all Ether that has been staked I now get to mine 50% of all further transactions (until new stakes are made). Ethereum 2.0 will make gas a lot less expensive (staking takes much less computing power, which is essentially the commodity gas represents), and therefore open up DeFi to the common man. Right now DeFi is a game of deeper pockets because gas fees are so high. Complex DeFi strategies entail thousands of dollars of fees per day to obtain the largest APR. Many aren't viable if you don't have at least $10,000 to start. Right now you are looking at $100-200 in fees just to make a deposit in a DeFi savings account. That's not bad considering the APR (often >100%)...if you are depositing thousands of dollars. Ethereum 2.0 will let you do that at a fraction of the price ($10-$20 for DeFi, and $1-2 for p2p Ether transactions). Hopefully by then some of the user experience/interface issues are ironed out and everyone can leverage their money on an equal playing field with big banks.
chuck Member	Mon May 10 00:05:11 > These two facts are why Chuck just made more money in 2 days than Duckhat will make all month. One day! Trying to give it all back rn anyway. Bought into RLC at $6 and $12, liquidated it on the way back down to $14, but just took another stake in it at $10. I will be 100% unsurprised if I wake up and it's at $5.
nhill Member	Mon May 10 00:07:10 Haha, you're straight up gambling and I love it. Good luck!
chuck Member	Mon May 10 00:38:15 Yeah. When my luck eventually does run out, which it inevitably must, (although right now it looks like I called the bottom on RLC), "a fool and his money are soon parted," will be the most fitting aphorism. In the meantime, good clean fun!
chuck Member	Mon May 10 12:05:45 Sold RLC in the $13s today. I'm up 60% over the 38 hours since I started my account
chuck Member	Mon May 10 17:13:58 Luck ran out today. Took an ill-advised position that immediately incurred a loss and has been underwater for a few hours. Unwinding it would give up about half my morning gains (which were about 17%) and the position isn't deeply bad, just marginally so, so I'm not ready to cut and run yet. Still in the green on the day and overall, but it's not all crypto-sunshine and crypto-rainbows any more!
nhill Member	Mon May 10 17:17:26 Yeah, a bunch of overleveraged longs got liquidated in the crypto space today. It happens. Once people get confident and overleveraged, the whales take them out and buy their coins at the lower price. Part of the game right now, part of why I don't recommend people invest in crypto (I'm just here to tell you about the future). It's not a game for the faint of heart. :)
habebe Member	Mon May 10 23:10:07 Of electricity was free,How difficult is it to mine? I mean you pretty much just need a bare bones and good cooking system, right?
nhill Member	Mon May 10 23:12:20 Mining is easy, but getting ahold of the GPUs necessary to mine during a mass semiconductor shortage is very difficult.
habebe Member	Mon May 10 23:40:07 True. Investing in semi conductors looks appealing though atleast.
habebe Member	Mon May 10 23:48:55 I also juat read that POS makes mining pretty much useless.:(
habebe Member	Mon May 10 23:48:56 I also juat read that POS makes mining pretty much useless.:(
nhill Member	Tue May 11 13:17:57 Mining Ether, sure. Plenty of other coins to mine that are similarly profitable.
habebe Member	Tue May 11 14:44:59 I suppose it's easy enough to repurpose the machines to mine whatever. I seen some obvious pump and dumps last night. revin, ICP, and shiba in all jumped like 200%+ in an hours time or so. ICP jumoed like.700% for like 10 minutes and dropped.right back down.
nhill Member	Tue May 11 15:15:09 Some mining software just switches you to whatever's most profitable at the time, so, yes, it's very easy. Or, if you don't want automated stuff, you can just download a new miner for something like Ravencoin and join a pool.
Habebe Member	Tue May 11 15:27:21 Yeah, I think my big drawback right now would be myninternet connection (Hughes net)
nhill Member	Tue May 11 15:58:06 Bandwidth doesn't matter, but latency and packet loss does.
chuck Member	Tue May 11 22:52:20 Realized the loss on my RLC position. Couldn't stand sitting in -20% crypto while every other coin is up 10% on the day. I think the hype train is over anyway. Gave back a lot of gains because I made a bad call there. Still up 20% overall.
jergul large member	Tue May 11 23:57:31 Chuck The house usually wins :)
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Wed May 12 10:23:26 Nhill Do you believe in Liquity, despite the premining of LQTY and going forward, even after the 1 year mark? Is this the most sound defi platform according to you?
nhill Member	Wed May 12 10:54:30 I don't believe in the $LQTY token, no. I believe in the platform, though, and you can 100% avoid the token.
nhill Member	Wed May 12 10:54:59 It's the most elegant, sound, and secure platform I've been able to find so far, but that's a matter of opinion.
nhill Member	Wed May 12 10:55:32 The beautiful part of Liquity is it's immutable. It'll never change, so I don't really have to worry about it. And it's very simple and elegant.
nhill Member	Wed May 12 10:59:04 jergul And this is why I don't speculate or participate in Social Sentiment investing. Someone will ALWAYS hold the bag. And it's so tempting the majority will lose their life savings by doubling down until they're the bag holders. I'm just glad Chuck got out without losing.
nhill Member	Wed May 12 11:00:49 Nimatzo One last thing. Liquity had over a billion dollars in Total Value Locked within 1 week. And now up to $3 billion and the 7th largest project within a couple months (for perspective, most above Liquity took years to reach that). Many others with deep pockets apparently feel the same way. I don't even consider Liquity investing, it's just what I use for my savings and I live off the interest.
nhill Member	Wed May 12 11:01:43 If you really wanted to invest in Liquity you'd buy the $LQTY token. But for reasons already mentioned I see almost no value in the token.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Wed May 12 11:51:58 Ok, here comes a bunch of questions and commentary :) Q1:You keep staking LQTY. How do you "avoid" them? Q2:Not believing in the platforms tokens, what does that mean for the platform. It seems to be a core function, am I missing something? Do you also not believe in Wasabix? Q3:On liquity, besides the initial fees, and of course general network transaction fees, are there other reoccuring fees as you are staking and putting money into liquidity pools? I am trying to understand why I need 10k USD. I have connected metamask to both liquity and wasabix to get a feel for both. These are not very user friendly platforms, oddly Wasabix seems a bit more instructional. I am still in the reading up phase, I have joined the liquity discord. Do you remember a crypto scam called Bitconnect? Functionally for those joining the scam it was similar to liquity. You would trade BTC for BTCC (their own token) and lock in in a trove/vault kind of thing, then get paid in BTC every day, according to some vodoo "trading algorithm". It was a pretty straightforward ponzi scheme. Not arguably, they _are_ not functionally the same, liquity is transparent etc. etc. Q4:Can you only lose 10% of your collateral? I think I get hints that you risk total liquidation if you fall bellow 110%
nhill Member	Wed May 12 11:57:18 Q1: I don't stake $LQTY, if I ever get any I convert to $ETH. But I don't get any because I use Wasabix that didn't have a premine. Q2: Wasabix doesn't have the same concerns. No premine or investors. The platform's token is irrelevant if you use Wasabix. Q3: You don't need 10K but that's my recommendation. Right now gas fees are so high it costs ~$1000 to execute the full strategy. Q
nhill Member	Wed May 12 11:57:39 > Do you remember a crypto scam called Bitconnect? Functionally for those joining the scam it was similar to liquity. You would trade BTC for BTCC (their own token) and lock in in a trove/vault kind of thing, then get paid in BTC every day, according to some vodoo "trading algorithm". It was a pretty straightforward ponzi scheme. Not arguably, they _are_ not functionally the same, liquity is transparent etc. etc. Yes, but liquity pays in LUSD, not BTCC, so it's not the same risk.
nhill Member	Wed May 12 11:57:58 Also I've read the code so I'm not worried about that.
nhill Member	Wed May 12 11:58:35 > Q4:Can you only lose 10% of your collateral? I think I get hints that you risk total liquidation if you fall bellow 110% Yes, so you get liquidated at 110% but the liquidation returns 90% of your capital and the other 10% goes to the pools and liquidators.
nhill Member	Wed May 12 12:00:46 Great questions, btw, can tell you've put a significant amount of thought into this.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Wed May 12 12:02:52 >>I don't stake $LQTY, if I ever get any I convert to $ETH. But I don't get any because I use Wasabix that didn't have a premine.<< I see, but on liquity, this is the highest APR 51%, staking the LQTY to get LUSD. You are suggesting skipping this and buying more ETH and sticking to the stability pool?
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Wed May 12 12:08:53 I appreciate the answers, I can't read code, so understanding this takes a bit more time for me :)
nhill Member	Wed May 12 12:20:35 Wasabix has a better APR than that, and that's where I stake my LUSD instead of the Liquity stability pool. Wasabix actually puts the LUSD in the stability pool behind the scenes but it compounds and returns the money in LUSD instead of $LQTY. Presumably because they have the same concerns that I have about the token.
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