Utopia Talk / Politics / The anti semetic left on the rise

Habebe Member	Thu May 27 16:32:19 http://www...urope/ar-AAKrkRZ?ocid=BingNews Now I will repeat how bad a term "anti-semetic" is because in modern times it refers to anti-jew, because Palestinians are a semetic people....but anyway.... Apparently anti Jewish crimes are on the rise in left wing circles and supposedly a "right wing" group in Italy. Not to pin all ledties as anti Jewish, just pointing out they have their racist poclets as well.
Allahuakbar Member	Fri May 28 13:53:02 http://wt....formation/zyjue855404728411500
Paramount Member	Fri May 28 14:16:58 So, people who are anti-semites are: left-wingers, right-wingers, fascists, nazists, nationalists, religious people, etc. Are Jews hated by everyone? Zionists/some jews has a broad definition of what is anti-semitism though. Criticizing Netanyhau is anti-semitism, criticizing Israel’s war crimes is anti-semitism. Etc and so on. Basically, anything can be anti-semitism. That girl on Allahuakbar’s link/picture is probably an anti-semite too. ”Anti-semitism is on the rise” We always hear this in the news in conjunction with Israel’s bombings of the Palestinian civilian population. That people gets angry and upset at Israel’s behavior is not strange. I would be more suprised if people across the spectrum came together and expressed love for Israel eveytime they decide to destroy property and kill children.
Habebe Member	Fri May 28 14:25:49 Paramount, Sort of, exactly. Its likely that this is way over stated and people who dont actually hate Jewish people are being called anti semites simply for disagreeing with Israel for instance. However this is also accompanied by a slight rise or atleast an uncovering of actual anti jewishness. Sort of how many conservatives are blanketed as racists for disagreeing with things like BLM or the role of confederate symbols, or even mundane things like BBQ.
Habebe Member	Fri May 28 14:26:48 Just like there are real racists who don't like BLM and who like BBQ.
habebe Member	Sat Jun 05 02:41:28 Google's "Head of Diversity" got fired for having an old blog calling Jews murderous warmongers (paraphrased)
kargen Member	Sat Jun 05 03:21:39 not fired. "The company said Bobb would be reassigned to a STEM research role."
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Sat Jun 05 04:05:23 That is interesting. James Damore got fired for citing psychology research. Bobb cited Elder’s of Zion and was reassigned. Curb your double standards.
Sam Adams Member	Sat Jun 05 10:23:09 Of course... only white men get punished these days.
Habebe Member	Sat Jun 05 10:30:12 Yeah bobb was some kind of dark. “If I were a Jew I would be concerned about my insatiable appetite for war and killing in defense of myself. " That's the actual quote. That is way worse than some of the stuff people get in trouble for. But the left looks at anti jewishness as 2nd class racism.
Rugian Member	Sat Jun 05 10:52:38 "But the left looks at anti jewishness as 2nd class racism." It depends on the context. If Trump is president and a bunch of Jews get shot up, then it's a horrific hate crime that was directly caused by the anti-Semitic rhetoric of the orange man (which he never engaged in, but that's beside the point). If the Democrats and the media are going all-in with negative coverage of Israel and all of a sudden a bunch of Jews are getting beat up in the street by minorities...well that's different. Context, habebe. You need to understand the context.
Paramount Member	Sat Jun 05 11:05:12 ” “If I were a Jew I would be concerned about my insatiable appetite for war and killing in defense of myself. " That's the actual quote. That is way worse than some of the stuff people get in trouble for.”” I think a lot worse than that has been said about Arabs and Muslims without people being punished.
Habebe Member	Sat Jun 05 11:48:52 Rugian, Fair enough. Kushner wasnt a minority either when Trump was in office by their standards. They have a rather racist take on who is a POC. Have you noticed how Tulsi didnt tow the line of the DNC and seemed to be treated as not colored enough.
tumbleweed the wanderer	Sat Jun 05 12:19:45 "people are being called anti semites simply for disagreeing with Israel for instance" there was some Republican who flat out said that not long ago R's are as blindly loyal to Israel as Trump was to Russia
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Sat Jun 05 13:43:02 You are probably anti-semitic if you single out what Israel does and obsess over it on humanitarian grounds. At the same not even devoting a fraction of your outrage to the humanitarian travesties going on around the globe, orders of magnitude worse than what Israel does. Yepp.
tumbleweed the wanderer	Sat Jun 05 14:04:00 i've advocated for wiping out China so i'm pretty humanitarian
Habebe Member	Sat Jun 05 14:07:30 Nimatzo, Like say Paramount? He may just hate on the US and any groups strongly allied with their goals.
Paramount Member	Sun Jun 06 02:05:50 ” You are probably anti-semitic if you single out what Israel does and obsess over it on humanitarian grounds. At the same not even devoting a fraction of your outrage to the humanitarian travesties going on around the globe” The thing is that every other humanitarian travesty around the globe is being dealt with one way or another, for an example by sanctions and isolations, military bombing campaigns, military invasions, etc. Every one except the travesty that Israel subjects the Palestinians to. Why is that? It is because you all are anti-Palestinians. You all obsess over China, Iran, Russia, and when someone is killed or kidnapped in some african country, and over Milosevic’s Serbia, at the same time as you are turning a blind eye to Israel’s crimes against humanity which has been allowed to go on for decades now with your support (lack of engagement and condemnation). Sorry, you are not in a position to call someone anti-semitie. It is you who are the anti-semite, as the Palestinians are a semitic people. As long as there is no justice, as long as this travesty is being ignored while all others are dealt with, Israel and people like Nimazto will have to accept that people keep speaking about Israel. Also, of course you can chose to engage in one particular travesty and try to bring justice to it. But once you chose to single out one particular travesty and people that can not have justice but instead will have to continue to be killed and erhnically cleansed – then you are the one who is racist and anti-semite/Palestinian. If it hasn’t been obvious to you yet then it should be now.
habebe Member	Sun Jun 06 02:31:33 Paramount, I think the difference with Israel has a few reasons why its treated differently, but randomly being anti Palestinian has nothing to Do with it. 1. This isn't a one sided issue, their are two parties both commuting acts of violence, the difference is one is poor and is bad at war, the other isn't comparatively. 2. Pals have aligned themselves with unsavory actors, Iran and Hamas. Its debated in different circles but they largely considered terrorist orginizations. 3. Historical ties to Israel, plusas far as the US is concerned its one of two major allies in the region and the only democratic state.You might throw in some weird variation on white guilt/sympathy with the whole holocaust speile. Other than Israelis and maybe some local Arabs who get frustrated with them no one has reason to single out PALS, it just doesn't make sense, they're on no one's radar.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Sun Jun 06 04:13:51 Paramount ”Also, of course you can chose to engage in one particular travesty and try to bring justice to it.” Of course they can, I just explained how a specific group of people, anti-semites, are motivated to ”care” about Israel-Palestine and practically nothing else. You are not the victim of anything, I am already tolerating you and the anti-Israeli lobby, I just explained so basic stuff. Unlike you, I can and have criticized Israel, while acknowledging and pointing out the problematic aspect of the Palestinians, arabs and in extension the larger Islamic world and their contribution to extending and making this worse. You are only obsessed with Israel, you don’t think the Arabs have any blame or part in this. It is difficult to partition the blame, but it is much closer to an even division, than the 99.9999% of blame people like you have handed to Israel.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Sun Jun 06 04:35:50 Paramount Is the Yemeni war worse? How would you rank Saudi Arabia and how it has conducted that conflict next to Israel? What about Turkey and the Kurds? West Sahara vs Morocco? Shall we take a look at the UN resolution on these conflicts and the rebuking of countries by different UN councils? UN general assembly has condemned Israel 112 times since 2015. That isn’t a typo. Russia, comes in at second with 12. North Korea 6, Iran 5, China 0. This isn’t even a contest, but Israel is the most frequent country to be condemned and rebuked in the various instances of the UN. It’s a joke, you would think, but no
Hrothgar Member	Sun Jun 06 09:03:41 There is a difference between hating Jews for being Jews, vs hating the way the nation state of Israel responds to the impoverished people under their within their sphere of influence. Most of the "liberal" anti-Israel stance is government/nation state level and not religious bigotry ("Israel gov and military are violent bastards"). The religious bigotry ("Jews should die because they are Jews") is more heavily found within the right wing fundamentalist's way of thinking. Personally, while I see the liberals' point, it should be considered what would happen if Israel did not respond so violently? Certainly it seems they would suffer from a never ending assault by those impoverished people. Rocket attacks and bombings would be a daily occurrence. This Islamic fundamentalist factions are not innocent in this, and are typically the ones who fire the first rocket barrage that kicks this BS cycle off.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Sun Jun 06 10:03:31 Hrothgar Israel is responding, generally, far better than anyone else. We can take 9/11 as an example. A limited attack and your country invaded 2 countries, one that had nothing to so with the attack. Israel could wipe out every Palestinians tomorrow, they don’t. At some point, peoples obsession with this conflict and Israel, above every other conflict and shithole with questionable human rights record, can o ly be explained by anti-semitism. There is, literally, nothing extra ordinary about the intensity, blood shed or humanitarian aspect of this conflict vs all the other conflict in the ME alone, where Muslims are killing other Muslim. But no one cares.
swordtail Anarchist Prime	Sun Jun 06 10:08:08 lol
Rugian Member	Sun Jun 06 12:22:26 Hamas' founding charter literally calls for the eradication of the Jewish state. It is literally not possible to negotiate with them. The PLO has repeatedly responded to Israeli offers of a Palestinian state by telling them to fuck off and proceeding to launch violent attacks against Jews. But sure, it's the Israelis, who give advance notice to building residents that their properties are about to be bombed by the IDF, that are the bad guys here.
Rugian Member	Sun Jun 06 12:25:40 Y2A was on this board last month accusing the Israelis of *genocide* because a court case resulted in a handful of Palestinian squatters being forced out of their residences. Not all criticism of Israel is anti-Semitic, but as some point you do have to start questioning why they seem to be the target of such a disproportionate and overblown amount of criticism.
Asgard Member	Sun Jun 06 14:30:14 Never in the history of the world, the death of 200 people caused so much outrage. I can think of a hundred other conflicts since and during the Gaza skirmish last month, that caused more deaths and was even more "disproportionate"
Paramount Member	Sun Jun 06 15:11:43 Nimatzo ”Of course they can, I just explained how a specific group of people, anti-semites, are motivated to ”care” about Israel-Palestine and practically nothing else.” What bs is this? You are saying that it is antisemitic to single out Israel for criticism: ”You are probably anti-semitic if you single out what Israel does and obsess over it on humanitarian grounds” – Nimatzo It isn’t antisemitism to chose to engage in one particular travesty and try to bring justice to it. It is you who are anti-Palestinian/anti-semitic because you single out the Palestinians as the only people who are not allowed justice, but instead must continue to be killed and ethnically cleansed, because you also single out Israel as the only country who people are not allowed to criticize. Why don’t you also explain how everyone who criticize Saudi Barbaria but no one else are anti-Arabs/anti-Semites? Please explain how the organization Save the Children are anti-adults. How dare they to only focus on children? Please explain. ” You are only obsessed with Israel, you don’t think the Arabs have any blame or part in this. ” What Arabs? The Palestinians? Is it the current generation of Palestinians fault that they are being ethnically cleansed and murdered by the most advanced and strongest army in the Middle East? I see… it’s the victims fault, right? How do you think it is to be born and raised into a brutal military occupation where your fundamental human rights such as the right to live free (of military occupation) is systematically and with lethal force denied to you? ” Is the Yemeni war worse? How would you rank Saudi Arabia and how it has conducted that conflict next to Israel?” It is not really about what is worse. It’s about the continued and shameless scorn of the rights of the Palestinian people which has been going on for decades and the double standards: every travesty except the travesty that Israel subjects the Palestinians to has or is being dealt with. Saudi Barbarias war on the Yemeni people is brutal. Israel’s war on the Palestinian people over the decades is equally brutal and disgusting, especially since it has been going on for decades without it being dealt with. Israel has been occupying Palestine for 60 years. There are no sanctions, no bombing campaigns. Nothing. Iraq invaded Kuwait and got sanctioned and bombed. Serbia bombed refugee camps and got bombed by Nato. Russia annexed Crimea some time ago and got sanctioned. Israel is bombing refugee camps regularly, they are bombing civilian homes, civilian infrastructure, UN schools, hospitals, ambulances, UN personell, etc and so on. Where are the fucking sanctions and the bombing campaigns? Where are they? Hello? Also, how do you measure pain and sorrow? A destroyed home and a killed family member in Yemen creates as much pain as a destroyed home and a killed family member in Palestine. Which is worse you ask? Saudi Barbarias recent war on the Yemeni people or Israel’s 60 years long war on the Palestinian people? You tell me. ” Shall we take a look at the UN resolution on these conflicts” Yes let’s. Israel has violated numerous of UN resolutions including at least one UN Security Council Resolution. Still, Israel is not being punished. Iraq violated ONE resolution and got invaded and bombed almost immediately. Other countries who violates UN resolutions also gets punished. But no one has violated and ignored the UN and its resolutions as systematically as Israel has. Israel’s head of state even ridicule the UN at the UN while they are at it, and the member states does nothing. Maybe a little bit off-topic but why is Israel even a member of the UN if it does not want to abide by its Charter and its resolutions? Why not kick Israel out and label them a rogue country, which they in fact are since they refuse to abide by international laws, Geneva conventions, UN resolutions. The way you single out Israel as the only criminal state that can not be either criticized or punished is one (if not THE) major reason why people chose to focus on Israel’s crimes against the Palestinians. If it in your eyes makes me (or anyone) an anti-semite to stand up against and continue to highlight Israel’s crimes against humanity, in that case I’m a proud anti-semite, and fuck you Nimatzo. ”Israel is responding, generally, far better than anyone else.” Yeah, lol. The violence that Israel use against the Palestinians is notorius disproportional. Nimatzo, you clown.
Paramount Member	Sun Jun 06 15:16:07 Rugian ”Hamas' founding charter literally calls for the eradication of the Jewish state. It is literally not possible to negotiate with them.” Likud’s charter denies Palestine’s right to exist. It litterally determines the eradication of Palestine.
Paramount Member	Sun Jun 06 15:19:17 ” It is literally not possible to negotiate with them.” Israel/Netanyahu has said numerous times that they will not allow a Palestinian state. No two-state solution. Israel even left the most recent negotiations led by the USA. How can you negotiate with Israel then? You can’t. It is IMPOSSIBLE.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Sun Jun 06 15:25:00 Paramount ”notorius disproportional.” This retarded statement alone reaffirms what I said and the futility of trying to talk with the anti-semite lobby.
Asgard Member	Sun Jun 06 15:56:33 It is very disproportional how the Turks invaded the sovereign nation of Syria in order to advance their own interests in the name of war on terror, when in fact they came to slaughter the Kurds and land grab what they can while both sides had their guns limited at each other with their backs yo Turkey. Literally thousands of dead Syrians ... Woops, sorry, it's not Israel so it's not disproportionate, it's just a random fact being ignored, And 200 Palestinians is a lot more than thousands of Syrians
habebe Member	Sun Jun 06 18:38:46 At this point, I dont see a 2 state solution as feasible from either side. Disproportionate damage is just because Israel is better armed. It doesn't excuse the Pals behaviour entirely just because the Israelis.are better armed. Not that the Israelis are without blame.
hood Member	Mon Jun 07 02:01:45 "Israel has been occupying Palestine for 60 years." First, create the problem, then blame the other people for it. Nobody will ever know!
	show deleted posts

Your Name:
Your Password:
Your Message: