Utopia Talk / Politics / Changing my opinion about Trump

Daemon Member	Wed Jul 07 09:33:20 I think now that he has said and done a lot of good things http://www...ump-hitler-michael-bender-book Trump told chief of staff Hitler ‘did a lot of good things’, book says Remark shocked John Kelly, author Michael Bender reports Book details former president’s ‘stunning disregard for history’ On a visit to Europe to mark the 100th anniversary of the end of the first world war, Donald Trump insisted to his then chief of staff, John Kelly: “Well, Hitler did a lot of good things.” The remark from the former US president on the 2018 trip, which reportedly “stunned” Kelly, a retired US Marine Corps general, is reported in a new book by Michael Bender of the Wall Street Journal. Frankly, We Did Win This Election has been widely trailed ahead of publication next week. The Guardian obtained a copy. Bender reports that Trump made the remark during an impromptu history lesson in which Kelly “reminded the president which countries were on which side during the conflict” and “connected the dots from the first world war to the second world war and all of Hitler’s atrocities”. Bender is one of a number of authors to have interviewed Trump since he was ejected from power. In a statement a Trump spokesperson, Liz Harrington, said: “This is totally false. President Trump never said this. It is made-up fake news, probably by a general who was incompetent and was fired.” But Bender says unnamed sources reported that Kelly “told the president that he was wrong, but Trump was undeterred”, emphasizing German economic recovery under Hitler during the 1930s. “Kelly pushed back again,” Bender writes, “and argued that the German people would have been better off poor than subjected to the Nazi genocide.” Bender adds that Kelly told Trump that even if his claim about the German economy under the Nazis after 1933 were true, “you cannot ever say anything supportive of Adolf Hitler. You just can’t.” Trump ran into considerable trouble on the centennial trip to Europe, even beyond his usual conflicts with other world leaders. A decision to cancel a visit to an American cemetery proved controversial. Trump was later reported to have called US soldiers who died in the war “losers” and “suckers”. Kelly, whose son was killed in Afghanistan in 2010, left the White House in early 2019. He has spoken critically of Trump since, reportedly telling friends the president he served was “the most flawed person I have ever met in my life”. Bender writes that Kelly did his best to overcome Trump’s “stunning disregard for history”. “Senior officials described his understanding of slavery, Jim Crow, or the Black experience in general post-civil war as vague to nonexistent,” he writes. “But Trump’s indifference to Black history was similar to his disregard for the history of any race, religion or creed.” Concern over the rise of the far right in the US grew during Trump’s time in power and continues, as he maintains a grip on a Republican party determined to obstruct investigations of the deadly 6 January assault on the US Capitol by supporters seeking to overturn his election defeat. Trump has made positive remarks about far-right and white supremacist groups. During a presidential debate in 2020, Trump was asked if he would denounce white supremacists and militia groups. He struggled with the answer and eventually told the far-right Proud Boys group to “stand back and stand by”. In 2017, in the aftermath of a neo-Nazi march in Virginia which earned supportive remarks from Trump, the German magazine Stern used on its cover an illustration of Trump giving a Nazi salute while wrapped in the US flag. Its headline: “Sein Kampf” – his struggle.
tumbleweed the wanderer	Wed Jul 07 11:44:50 "Trump’s indifference to Black history was similar to his disregard for the history of any race, religion or creed." ...& his disregard for any factual information at all ---------- "In a statement a Trump spokesperson, Liz Harrington, said: “This is totally false. President Trump never said this. It is made-up fake news, probably by a general who was incompetent and was fired.” " that denial totally has value & Trump sure had a knack for surrounding himself w/ incompetent generals... the cult hates at least 3 now
nhill Member	Wed Jul 07 12:44:56 > Bender adds that Kelly told Trump that even if > his claim about the German economy under the > Nazis after 1933 were true, “you cannot ever say > anything supportive of Adolf Hitler. You just > can’t.” In other words, Bender, more or less, admits Trump is right but he says it's not politically correct. This is why Trump got such a solid base. Of course not every action Adolf Hitler took in his life was bad. Any idiot knows that. It's just that nobody wants to say it out loud. Trump did. That's been his modus operandi the whole time. Boring. Anyone surprised by this doesn't have a clue.
nhill Member	Wed Jul 07 12:46:42 You offended he said things you wouldn't dare to think? Good. You got played.
Daemon Member	Wed Jul 07 13:23:09 "even if his claim about the German economy under the Nazis after 1933 were true" "In other words, Bender, more or less, admits Trump is right" Just no.
Im better then you 2012 UP Football Champ	Wed Jul 07 13:36:05 nhill The American President should NEVER say anything good about Hitler. Its not about hurt feelings its more about him encouraging assholes.
nhill Member	Wed Jul 07 14:24:48 Daemon English is probably not your first language. The "even if" part is a concession. He's saying he doesn't want to argue the point as he deems it irrelevant. A common hedge when a topic makes one uncomfortable. So, yes. I was correct. Next English lesson I'll charge you. IBTY He's appealing to his target market. Would you expect anything different at this point?
Habebe Member	Wed Jul 07 14:42:59 Hitler and his regime did do a lot of good. It just usually gets overshadowed by you know genocide and war crimes bonanza. No very active regime did all terrible things.The PRC for example has lifted 100s of millions out of poverty, rejuvenated deserts, cleaned rivers ( they polluted far worse though) etc. Hitler ended vivisection, created an endangered species, paved roads like a motherfucker, made the poorest nation in the world (debt) into a superpower in a few years, ended the treaty of Versailles etc.
tumbleweed the wanderer	Wed Jul 07 15:43:44 if Trump is proud of it, why put out the lie denial? (complete w/ smearing media & a general) but yes, all of these things are indeed his modus operandi
nhill Member	Wed Jul 07 15:53:32 Because it trolls people like you, tumbleweed, and y'all give him more and more attention while he solidifies his base further. Neither Trump or his team give a rat's ass what the media or politically correct babies think. But he sure gets a lot of free publicity out of it. Clearly, the strategy is working. With such small-minded opposition, I won't give him much credit, though.
tumbleweed the wanderer	Wed Jul 07 16:01:58 no, he is not trolling... he's just a fucking liar but his cult won't care... they'll love him for being not politically correct but they'll also believe it's 'fake news', just like they'll believe -every- negative thing the news ever reports about Trump must be fake whether he denies or not (as Hot Rod demonstrated)
nhill Member	Wed Jul 07 16:05:39 Lol triggered. You got played by Trump again. Please resume your charity marketing on his behalf.
tumbleweed the wanderer	Wed Jul 07 16:07:19 is he trolling with his repeated claims of rigged election & massive #'s of fraud votes being found? how are you determining what is trolling? he's never trolling
tumbleweed the wanderer	Wed Jul 07 16:09:39 ...and even if he was (which he isn't), it still makes him a horrible piece of shit as his cult believes it & repeats all of it & especially deranged as a former 'president', still doing nothing but trying to divide & smear... yet the obvious fraud toddler liar is still the greatest person ever to the cult
nhill Member	Wed Jul 07 16:14:25 I agree with you on most of that. I'm not a fan of Trump (or Biden). But both the liberal-leaning media and people like you are the reason he's still relevant. Free marketing, duh. If my kids act like that, I don't give them attention. Try it sometime. You ask how I know? I look at the results. This thread is a prime example. Attention comes at a premium, and y'all feed him for free.
nhill Member	Wed Jul 07 16:20:07 You can argue whether the tactics are on purpose or not. Doesn't matter. The results speak for themselves. I don't read or see anything about Trump until you or some other wanker whine about his latest interview. This one isn't even controversial. Yes, Hitler did good things in his life. No, that doesn't outweigh the bad. Discussion over. But it got attention, his team (not him, mind you) denied it, fanning the flames even more. And here we are. Either he or someone on his team is lowkey a genius. I read more about Trump from the left than Biden from the right. And Trump's not even in power. He lives rent-free in your head.
tumbleweed the wanderer	Wed Jul 07 16:24:29 "But both the liberal-leaning media and people like you are the reason he's still relevant" really? why is he still drawing large crowds? why is nearly every R afraid to say anything against him? & when they do they quickly back-peddle (Kevin McCarthy, Nikki Haley, Lindsey Graham, more) why are so many people running for office noting their Trump love? it's the propaganda networks hiding his bullshit that's keeping him dangerous
nhill Member	Wed Jul 07 16:25:03 > “This is totally false. President Trump never said this. It is made-up fake news, probably by a general who was incompetent and was fired.” If you can't spot the obvious trolling for attention in this statement, you are braindead.
nhill Member	Wed Jul 07 16:28:02 > really? Yes. I don't expect you to swallow the truth, as your cognitive dissonance knows no bounds. Consider it a favor I even told you. Already answered all the other questions. Pull the wool back over your eyes, now, kid.
Daemon Member	Wed Jul 07 16:28:33 "The "even if" part is a concession. He's saying he doesn't want to argue the point as he deems it irrelevant. A common hedge when a topic makes one uncomfortable. So, yes. I was correct. Next English lesson I'll charge you." Stop trolling retard.
nhill Member	Wed Jul 07 16:31:56 > Stop trolling retard. I was naïve to think you'd understand. Slink back to your basement, and sit up straight next time you speak to me.
Daemon Member	Wed Jul 07 16:41:59 Why did I expect anything better from a retarded Trump fan?
PhunkyPhishStyle Member	Wed Jul 07 16:43:17 “Clearly, the strategy is working. With such small-minded opposition, I won't give him much credit, though” Depends on what his game is. If he’s trying to actually be president, his strategy failed him. If he’s just trying to grift and squeeze his fans for money, he’s doing great. The problem for Trump is that his existence in the public eye predicated on a lie that inherently has a time table. His base expects BIG results from the audits. So much so, that many Anon Qultists actually believe he will be reinstated to POTUS next month. Others believe he’s never left the presidency(Biden is a hologram (or an actor) in a fake Oval Office and Trump still holds power). When that doesn’t come to pass, something is going to break. It’ll be interesting to see the mental gymnastics. The cognitive dissonance of his followers is unmatched.
nhill Member	Wed Jul 07 16:46:44 > Why did I expect anything better from a retarded Trump fan? I don't see any Trump fans other than you here. > Depends on what his game is. If he’s trying to actually be president, his strategy failed him. If he’s just trying to grift and squeeze his fans for money, he’s doing great. It pretty obvious to me that it's more about getting attention, and always has been with Trump. Pre, during, and post-presidency. > When that doesn’t come to pass, something is going to break. It’ll be interesting to see the mental gymnastics. The cognitive dissonance of his followers is unmatched. I'll provide the popcorn.
tumbleweed the wanderer	Wed Jul 07 16:52:12 "If you can't spot the obvious trolling..." there is no trolling... however i can spot it was dictated by Trump (or someone whose mind has turned to mush & imitating him) he wants everyone to find all real media fake, & he always does petty toddlery attacks on those who have made him look bad & he does want to ruin their reputations (& it works for his cult... they boo Pence now, for what?, they boo Gov Kemp, for what?) the wool is over your eyes, not mine
nhill Member	Wed Jul 07 17:02:05 Your prose is so limp and weak I can barely read it. hey guys... this is upsetting to me... trump does that same stuff and it has the same effect. over and over. c'mon... i can't believe you don't see how much the bad man hurt me & i think you are all wrong... Christ. Google 'TRT' and find a doctor.
tumbleweed the wanderer	Wed Jul 07 17:02:07 recall 'shithole' countries he denied then when an African leader was visiting WH, & a reporter asked about it, Trump said 'he knows what i meant'... wait, you denied it happened... we all know he does say these things & he lies about it, not to troll... he never considers the truth, he says whatever sounds best in the moment piece of shits Spicer/Huckster-Sanders/Grisham/Kayleigh would've denied all from podium (not that Grisham ever spoke from the podium)... & not to troll (as if trolling the public is remotely appropriate), he is just a fucking liar
Habebe Member	Wed Jul 07 17:34:20 Tw, The thing is, you dont care about the lies, you only care that it's Trump. Being 100% serious, your encyclopedia example.of the anti Trump cultist.
tumbleweed the wanderer	Wed Jul 07 17:41:48 i don't care about this lie i care it's Trump as his cult BELIEVES him when NOTHING he says should be believed, and the cult is large he is dumbing down the nation & doing nothing but deepening division
Habebe Member	Wed Jul 07 17:52:58 TW, Its attitudes like that, that make them support Trump all that much more. Its not that they think he doesnt lie. Its that they realize all politicians lie, and the. Left media does almost nothing but lie and decieve. They say he "lies more than anyone" and yet only tracked his "lies". 2 problems with that. 1. Thats like eating one mango and saying this is the best tasting mangoes in the world.You need fair comparisons. 2. Id bet that as a proportion Biden has spouted more un truths, but that will just get chalked up to mis speaking by his lackies.
Habebe Member	Wed Jul 07 17:56:47 I mean just the fact that you think absolutely everything he says should be disregarded drives right at the problem. Look at theblab leak theory. Big tech backed the DNC in banning people from even questioning it, basing it on that very assumption. If Trump says it, ban it, supress it and demonize it, no matter what just makes more supporters for.him. He has this lawsuit now, I dont knownthe merits legally, but politically its popular, people dont like this dystopian DNC manufacturing consent as Chomsky would call it (notorious lefty)
tumbleweed the wanderer	Wed Jul 07 18:00:26 "Its not that they think he doesnt lie" there are cultists that specifically say he doesn't lie... also all of them will say election stolen w/ most believing mass fraud has been found (as he keeps saying it has been)... just like all believe the FBI has been exposed for corruptly going after him (as he keeps saying it)... there is no proof of either of those claims at all & so much more they are DEFINITELY believing the lies -------- "They say he "lies more than anyone" and yet only tracked his "lies"." it's his continuous spewing of them that made people track it... i am extremely confident that minimally the R side of media would be counting every Biden one & making articles out of it if it actually was comparable he is totally detached from truth, it's clear every time he speaks he doesn't care what is true
tumbleweed the wanderer	Wed Jul 07 18:03:27 "I mean just the fact that you think absolutely everything he says should be disregarded drives right at the problem. " if he makes a claim, there is more than a 50% chance it is wrong... i stand by this extremely firmly (it's way more than 50%) do you disagree? even the things you claim he's right on require some massaging of what he actually said
PhunkyPhishStyle Member	Wed Jul 07 18:19:55 “ Its not that they think he doesnt lie. Its that they realize all politicians lie, and the. Left media does almost nothing but lie and decieve. ” You give them far too much credit. They don’t have some sophisticated understanding of politics. The vast majority of Trump supporters are simpletons who think we are in the midst of a battle between good vs evil - and that God is using Trump to fight for good. This paradigm is then reaffirmed by their religious institutions and social media echochambers. It’s also a fundamental basis of QAnon.
Habebe Member	Wed Jul 07 18:34:34 TW, IDK true numbers of % of lies, no one does. But his supporters dont trust the left* in general, with good reason.So at the very least his misgivings are overlooked as he is seen as fighting the left*. *To explain the left as seen by Trump supporters, this includes The DNC Liberal media Big tech "Fact" checkers All three are corrupt hacks that no conspiracy theory needed all work together in shadow campaigns. That wpuld sound like a tin matter theory like the Clintons "vast right wing conspiracy" and the false russian narratives, the difference is that we have loads of evidence to support that theory.
Habebe Member	Wed Jul 07 18:34:59 All 4, I added fact checkers later.
tumbleweed the wanderer	Wed Jul 07 19:04:26 _you_ may be in the 'overlooking' group, but PPS is right about a huge portion of his support there's no reason the R party couldn't find a mentally fit leader if the masses actually did see Trump for the continual liar fraud moron traitor he is... yet they are embracing the hell out of him while just secretly hoping he doesn't run
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