Utopia Talk / Politics / Flip Flop competition

patom Member	Fri Jul 23 05:40:06 For some reason the Conservatives are now telling everyone to roll up their sleeves and get vaccinated. Gov. DeSantis of Fl. is doing a quickie flip flop. “These vaccines are saving lives,” said DeSantis, who recently began selling campaign merchandise mocking masks and medical experts.
Rugian Member	Fri Jul 23 06:46:04 What is this utter horseshit? Florida was famous for prioritizing seniors when the vaccines first rolled out and making sure they could get a shot as early as possible. How do you go from that to "DeSantis was anti-vaxx until today, what a flip-flopper lololol?"
patom Member	Fri Jul 23 08:42:10 Rugian, These vaccines are saving lives,” said DeSantis, who recently began selling campaign merchandise mocking masks and medical experts.
Dukhat Member	Fri Jul 23 08:52:59 Republicans had no problem with the virus killing people in blue cities and other densely populated areas. But now, the delta variant basically spreads like wildfire among the unvaccinated meaning it kills way more Republicans than democrats if left to run amuck. So of course now the fucking repuglicans care. Fucking selfish ingrates.
Average Ameriacn Member	Fri Jul 23 11:02:03 The delta variant is from India. From the same people who do all the telephone scams.
nhill Member	Fri Jul 23 13:21:03 I was hoping this thread would be us comparing flip flops to see who has the nicest pair. Very disappointed, patom.
Rugian Member	Fri Jul 23 18:25:25 "Michael Tracey @mtracey Just double-checked: literally every GOP Governor in the country, all 27 of them, personally received the vaccine months ago and has consistently encouraged their state's residents to do so. Again, the problem some seem to have is they haven't been scoldingly sanctimonious enough" http://mobile.twitter.com/mtracey/status/1418419568209502208 Just because the Bangor propaganda rag you call "news" never reported on this doesn't mean it didn't happen, patom.
Rugian Member	Fri Jul 23 18:26:30 And yes, you can simultaneously be pro-vaccine while advocating against continued mask use and telling frauds like Dr. Fauci to fuck up. There's no contradiction between those positions.
kargen Member	Fri Jul 23 21:14:11 "These vaccines are saving lives,” said DeSantis, who recently began selling campaign merchandise mocking masks and medical experts." You do realize a mask isn't actually a vaccine?
tumbleweed the wanderer	Fri Jul 23 21:28:07 there’s definitely been a marked change amongst the Fox crowd on vaccines... probably as the partisan divide has become completely clear (except to kargen) and they are largely to blame for the rising problems
Habebe Member	Sat Jul 24 00:03:55 IDK about the Fox crowd, but Trump has been very pro vaccinne from day 1.
kargen Member	Sat Jul 24 01:37:33 So have most the Fox crowd that I watch though admittedly that is limited. They were/are pro vaccine they were/are against the shut down and masks outdoors. And they think Fauci is a douche.
patom Member	Sat Jul 24 04:35:06 Louisiana's Steve Scalise just got his first shot of vaccine. I wonder what changed his mind? I thought he was one of the leaders of the anti-vaccine, anti-mask, anti-any protections crowd.
kargen Member	Sat Jul 24 05:29:51 First few articles I found it looks like he wasn't anti-vaccine. "Scalise said he waited, in part, because he tested positive for COVID antibodies a while back – he believes he had a mild case of the virus at some point – and thought he had some immunity from that."
tumbleweed the wanderer	Sat Jul 24 12:30:08 "Trump has been very pro vaccinne from day 1" not remotely... he downplayed the virus "from day 1" saying flu worse, a position he's basically maintained except for a 4-6 week period (Mar/Apr 2020), as he always returns to his original no-info positions. He said "it's going away" (every month since Apr 2020, "rounding corner" in Sept/Oct), & demonstrated a horrible example throughout, flouting local regulations & his own admin's guidance at EVERY single rally. I don't believe a single tweet/blog post/statement encouraging vaccine. But yes, in ~2 interviews when asked if he encourages the vaccine he gave a weak 'yeah' type answer. and just days ago: "Joe Biden kept talking about how good of a job he's doing on the distribution of the Vaccine that was developed by Operation Warp Speed or, quite simply, the Trump Administration. He's not doing well at all. He's way behind schedule, and people are refusing to take the Vaccine because they don't trust his Administration, they don't trust the Election results, and they certainly don't trust the Fake News, which is refusing to tell the Truth" a perfect opportunity to encourage it but nope, not a word... just focused on his own personal interests... taking credit, attacking Biden, attacking election results (of course) & attacking the media anyway, no need to go into another Trump argument, i know some of you see a completely different person & can't spot his ridiculously awful response to the pandemic
tumbleweed the wanderer	Sat Jul 24 12:33:12 in fact the statement basically discouraging his cultists from getting vaccine, as then you're helping Biden & you're trusting the administration/election results/media (or course there's no reason a sane person would be talking about election results in that post at all, but Trump is not sane)
Rugian Member	Sat Jul 24 15:13:13 Joy-Ann (Pro-Democracy) Reid @JoyAnnReid I mean, will anyone ... anyone at all ... ever fully trust the @CDCgov again? And who on God's earth would trust a vaccine approved by the @US_FDA?? How do we get a vaccine distributed after this broken, Trumpist nonsense has infected everything? Even if Biden wins? 9:11 PM · Sep 17, 2020
Rugian Member	Sat Jul 24 15:14:59 Chris Hayes @chrislhayes Trump's obsession/focus on a vaccine is nuts. It is totally immaterial to the short-term challenges, which are substantial. 6:18 PM · Mar 3, 2020
Rugian Member	Sat Jul 24 15:16:56 Rachel Maddow MSNBC @maddow "Trump has plotted with his team on a pre-election promotional campaign to try to convince voters a vaccine is safe, approved and ready for mass distribution — even if none of that is true yet." 2:30 PM · Oct 19, 2020·
Rugian Member	Sat Jul 24 15:20:28 Brian Stelter @brianstelter "Biden has spent these early days as President-elect pleading with Americans to pay attention to the relentless surge of Covid-19" as Trump "continues to ignore the deepening crisis and touts the promises of yet-to-be-approved vaccines as his panacea." 4:39 PM · Nov 15, 2020
Rugian Member	Sat Jul 24 15:23:22 Drew Holden @DrewHolden360 Thread Pfizer announced positive trial results for their coronavirus vaccine today. That’s great news, but it’s undermined when Dems & others have pushed a conspiracy that, because Orange Man Bad, the vaccine won’t work. Don’t remember? Well follow me down memory lane. http://mob...360/status/1325953696136617984
Rugian Member	Sat Jul 24 15:24:00 Drew Holden @DrewHolden360 Perhaps the most well-known anti-vaccine voice on this was @KamalaHarris, who kicked up a firestorm when she suggested she wouldn’t trust or take a vaccine coming out of the Trump Administration.
Rugian Member	Sat Jul 24 15:24:55 Drew Holden @DrewHolden360 But she wasn’t alone. Where bad and dangerous coronavirus ideas go, @NYGovCuomo is never far behind. By now you’ve surely heard of his comments that it’s “bad news” that we got a vaccine during the Trump Admin. Just a vile comment.
Rugian Member	Sat Jul 24 15:25:38 Drew Holden @DrewHolden360 · But what you may not remember is that @NYGovCuomo has been saying since September that he doesn’t trust the president or the FDA (!!) about a vaccine. (No pushback from @MSNBC on this one, by the way)
Rugian Member	Sat Jul 24 15:27:35 Drew Holden @DrewHolden360 · You may be familiar with one @JoeBiden, who shared a similar perspective as his running mate. Just look at that @nytimes headline (which is sure to go down the memoryhole eventually) and tell me that perspective is fine and dandy. (NYT headline reads "Biden, Seizing on Worries of Rushed Vaccine, Says Trump Can't Be Trusted")
Rugian Member	Sat Jul 24 15:29:19 Drew Holden @DrewHolden360 We had a similar lack of confidence on Capitol Hill. Here’s @TinaSmithMN, suggesting that political pressure would undermine a safe and effective vaccine. To be clear, this can only rightly be called a conspiracy theory. (Article is about Smith speculating that Trump would roll out a rushed vaccine as an October surprise)
Rugian Member	Sat Jul 24 15:30:58 Drew Holden @DrewHolden360 We had some former electeds, too. Surely you remember @KatieHill4CA? She suggested - again, as with all of these, absent evidence - that a vaccine approved by the Trump Admin couldn’t be trusted.
Rugian Member	Sat Jul 24 15:34:02 Drew Holden @DrewHolden360 This tweet from @DavidJollyFL is presented without comment. ("This Putin vaccine thing is all about him giving the alleged science to Trump so the President can take personal credit for a vaccine ahead of the U.S. elections")
Rugian Member	Sat Jul 24 15:34:35 Drew Holden @DrewHolden360 · We also had some almost politicians, including @CalforNC, who suggested that he would be “hesitant” to receive a vaccination, approved by the most advanced medical oversight body in the world, during a global pandemic.
Rugian Member	Sat Jul 24 15:36:24 Drew Holden @DrewHolden360 · The media didn’t help. Some of them, like @ForeignPolicy, were very clear about what they thought of a vaccine approved by a Trump Administration. This one from @Laurie_Garrett. Check out that highlighted line. ("Worse, I can no longer recommend that anyone retain faith in any public health pronouncements issued by government agencies.")
Rugian Member	Sat Jul 24 15:37:19 Drew Holden @DrewHolden360 · You won’t be surprised to see the media’s chief conspiracymonger, @JoyAnnReid, get in on this one. She went from lambasting POTUS for not caring to find a vaccine in May to suggesting *this morning* (November 9) that she wouldn’t have trusted one anyway. Remarkable mental gymnastics.
Rugian Member	Sat Jul 24 15:38:16 Drew Holden @DrewHolden360 · It’s been a tough couple of weeks for @TheAtlantic and @JeffreyGoldberg. “Trump’s Operation Warp Speed is an election ploy” is...not a quote that has held up particularly well, @juliettekayyem.
Rugian Member	Sat Jul 24 15:39:39 Drew Holden @DrewHolden360 We saw the same sentiment elsewhere. Here’s @sbg1, talking to @OliviaTroye, suggesting an ineffective or unsafe vaccine would be rushed out before Election Day. Hope the fear-porn clicks were worth it for @NewYorker.
Rugian Member	Sat Jul 24 15:40:18 Drew Holden @DrewHolden360 · Across the street at @NYMag we got the same perspective from @jonathanchait, a man who has never seen a left-wing conspiracy theory he didn’t like. We could’ve expected that sentiment would extend to Trump’s killer vaccine push.
Rugian Member	Sat Jul 24 15:41:51 Drew Holden @DrewHolden360 So much journalisming from @VanityFair. ("Will Anyone Trust Serial Liar Trump's Coronavirus Vaccine?")
Rugian Member	Sat Jul 24 15:43:42 Drew Holden @DrewHolden360 · It wasn’t quite a banner couple of weeks for the opinion pages, either. Here’s one from @USATODAY, written by Jason Sattler. ("If Trump Announces a Pre-election Covid Vaccine, Who'd Believe Him - Or Go And Get One?")
Rugian Member	Sat Jul 24 15:44:39 Drew Holden @DrewHolden360 And many just flat out gaslit their audience around what various electeds had said. Here’s @kylegriffin1 pretending that Biden didn’t say what he said above.
Rugian Member	Sat Jul 24 15:46:16 Drew Holden @DrewHolden360 · This is, regrettably, only the tip of the iceberg when it comes to lefty bluechecks undermining confidence in the vaccine. Leading the charge is the increasingly unhinged @tribelaw, who suggested the virus was as lethal as drinking Lysol.
Rugian Member	Sat Jul 24 15:47:32 (Okay I'm done)
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Sat Jul 24 15:55:26 I thought this was about the ones you wear on your feet. I read a bunch of wiki articles to be prepared and boy am I disappointed.
tumbleweed the wanderer	Sat Jul 24 15:56:10 i checked that Chris Hayes one, it was March 3, 2020 in response to Alex Azar w/ Trump saying scientists have developed a potential vaccine http://twitter.com/chrislhayes/status/1234981500728172545 obviously there should've been no expectation it would be available to anyone for a long time - for which Trump lied about as w/ -everything- else (plus that's 2 months -before- 'warp speed' so obviously Trump is not singularly responsible for it as his people claim, nor responsible at all as obviously it wasn't his idea) --- Rachel Maddow is 100% correct... Trump was lying about a vaccine being ready (& trying to get it rushed out) before election purely for election purpose, ignoring any proper trial procedure (or even understanding the purpose of trials, just calling it red tape) skimming the rest you have more proper distrust of Trump personally (that's -all- Kamala Harris did, not attack vaccine) & he -absolutely- earned the distrust however, all provably irrelevant as quite clear which side of the aisle is by far avoiding vaccine (& unsurprising as their cult leader said & acted as virus no big deal the entire time, gleefully ignoring any precautions whatsoever... plus Fox w/ Tucker & Ingraham in particular having frequent segments to discourage it)
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