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Utopia Talk / Politics / The Texas pro-life law
Rugian
Member
Thu Sep 02 08:31:13
Its absolutely hilarious to watch the same people who have spent the last year pushing for vaccine mandates now revert to mindlessly chanting the "My Body My Choice" mantra. Lol stupid sheeple.

Anyway, six weeks seems to me to be a too-early cutoff date, but it should be a state's right to determine its own abortion laws. In any case we should be glad that thousands of unborn children are now receiving legal protections to keep them alive.
murder
Member
Thu Sep 02 08:39:09

Abortion doesn't endanger the general population.

Going around unvaxxed and unmasked is somewhere between drunk driving on steroids ... and opening fire towards a crowd with an assault rifle.

Also Texas also has lax gun laws and allows people to defend themselves if they feel threatened. Women should use that liberally.

Rugian
Member
Thu Sep 02 08:43:17
"Abortion doesn't endanger the general population."

It endangers the life of the fetus being aborted.

And no, an unvaccinated person doesn't pose a major threat to you, if you yourself are vaccinated. So I don't have much sympathy for the line of thinking.
Seb
Member
Thu Sep 02 08:44:09
Rugian:

"same people who have spent the last year pushing for vaccine mandates"
Who, exactly has pushed for mandatory vaccine?

"but it should be a state's right to determine its own abortion laws"
Should it be a state's right to determine mandatory vaccination too?


Seb
Member
Thu Sep 02 08:46:00
Rugian:

"And no, an unvaccinated person doesn't pose a major threat to you, if you yourself are vaccinated."

Incorrect, also there are plenty of people who cannot be vaccinated or for whom the vaccine will not be effective as they are immunocompromised.

I suppose you can use stand your ground laws to shoot the unmasked in that case though.
Seb
Member
Thu Sep 02 08:46:44
Also, the detailed nature of the decision of the SC itself is laughable and demonstrates to what degree it is a dead letter.
Rugian
Member
Thu Sep 02 08:48:05
Seb

"Who, exactly has pushed for mandatory vaccine?"

Is this a joke? Or do you just really, really, really not pay attention to American politics?

If the latter, the answer is everyone from the President of the United States down to almost every left leaning organization in the country (labor unions being the major exception) together with the bulk of the mass media outlets and a majority of corporate and educational institutions.

"Should it be a state's right to determine mandatory vaccination too?"

It kind of is, right now.
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Thu Sep 02 08:50:45
murder
Member Thu Sep 02 08:39:09

Abortion doesn't endanger the general population.

Smashing some random person in the head with a hammer until they die, also doesn't endanger the general population.
Cloud Strife
Member
Thu Sep 02 09:16:26
“The unborn” are a convenient group of people to advocate for. They never make demands of you; they are morally uncomplicated, unlike the incarcerated, addicted, or the chronically poor; they don’t resent your condescension or complain that you are not politically correct; unlike widows, they don’t ask you to question patriarchy; unlike orphans, they don’t need money, education, or childcare; unlike aliens, they don’t bring all that racial, cultural, and religious baggage that you dislike; they allow you to feel good about yourself without any work at creating or maintaining relationships; and when they are born, you can forget about them, because they cease to be unborn. You can love the unborn and advocate for them without substantially challenging your own wealth, power, or privilege, without re-imagining social structures, apologizing, or making reparations to anyone. They are, in short, the perfect people to love if you want to claim you love Jesus, but actually dislike people who breathe. Prisoners? Immigrants? The sick? The poor? Widows? Orphans? All the groups that are specifically mentioned in the Bible? They all get thrown under the bus for the unborn.
Cloud Strife
Member
Thu Sep 02 09:18:30
`Smashing some random person in the head with a hammer until they die, also doesn't endanger the general population. '

Technically it does, because that random person is quite endangered. Now go eat your horse paste, and drink your drain-o and go cough on your grandma, because these are all sane, moral, productive things to do.
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Thu Sep 02 09:44:28
CS
I'm not gonna pretend I actually understood anything you just said, but I thought "doesn't endanger the public" was a very low bar for not killing.
Cloud Strife
Member
Thu Sep 02 09:54:59
I agree that not endangering the public is important, and am noting that yourself, your grandma, and random strangers are included in that sentiment.
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Thu Sep 02 10:05:53
Ethically, legally and morally what murder said was complete nonsense. That was the point and I think you understood that.
Cloud Strife
Member
Thu Sep 02 10:09:43
Unvaccinated people lead to increased viral mutations, meaning more variants and less effective vaccines, leading to the need for more vaccines, more masking, and more restrictions over time, not to mention hundreds of thousands of corpses and billions in medical expenses.

But, I'm oddly fine letting my political opponents commit mass suicide. This is natural selection, and seems to be a conclusive way to scientifically prove that science is better than conspiracies, dreams, and wishes. A few more shots and wearing a mask is a small price to pay.
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Thu Sep 02 10:23:32
This virus isn't bad enough for it make a dent into your political opponents. Another angle here is that you and your political tribe getting vaccinated provides protection for those will not motivated by ideology and conspiracy. Damned if you do and damned if you don't!
Cloud Strife
Member
Thu Sep 02 10:39:08
`This virus isn't bad enough for it make a dent into your political opponents.'

This statement is false. Antivaxxers are overwhelmingly Republican, (I think this phenomena is mainly US based). There are also key contingencies in important states in the south and midwest. My data suggests Rep to Dem deaths are 5 or 6 to 1 at this point, but the data is somewhat difficult to parse, although this jives with what I see on the ground, and also with the general "rugged inviduality/government bad/heil jesus" mentality.

It's hard to say how many will die, or at what rate, but there are already hundreds of thousands dead in the US, though the exact number is hard to obtain, due to the byzantine reporting (or non-reporting) requirements that were installed, and the general underreporting of "covid" deaths due to preferring things like pneumonia or any number of co-morbidities. Practically, all that matters is excess deaths, and that number should surpass a million in 2021. Let's assume 500k antivaxxers commit their ritual suicide on the pyres of freedom. That's a half million of the dumbest, most brainwashed voters gone... for life, many of which will fall in politically relevant states.


`Another angle here is that you and your political tribe getting vaccinated provides protection for those will not motivated by ideology and conspiracy.'

??? I don't know what you're getting at here. People vaccinate because they don't want themselves or others to die. The ones deciding about vaccinations based on ideology and conspiracy are the ones in the death cult.
murder
Member
Thu Sep 02 10:45:19

"Smashing some random person in the head with a hammer until they die, also doesn't endanger the general population."

That's correct, and society may want to outlaw that. But that doesn't really relate to the equivalence drawn in the OP.

Trying to keep someone from endangering everyone around them is not nearly the same as enslaving someone and forcing them to carry around a parasite for 9 months and then care for them for another 18 years.

But white men embracing slavery and the subjugation of women is not exactly a new theme.

murder
Member
Thu Sep 02 10:46:24

"This statement is false. Antivaxxers are overwhelmingly Republican"

And black.

I'll let Sammy take it from here.

Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Thu Sep 02 11:12:10
"500k antivaxxers commit their ritual suicide"

Is this a dent? I bet you anti-vaxxers and the broader group they belong to, have more kids. If we are talking about this in evolutionary terms.

"???"

It was mostly a joke :P

"the ones deciding about vaccinations based on ideology and conspiracy are the ones in the death cult."

I don't think what you said and what I said are at odds, I would just say this thing we call a "death cult", exists in many places, it isn't exclusive to these groups in the US, or for that matter the US. Assuming we have somewhat close definition of what that means. The same way you think the anti vaxxers position is unethical and steeped in a denial of facts about physical reality of how serious this virus is, that is how some people think about the loony and unscientific ideas pro-right people have about human reproduction. Just saying.

I agree with you on the pandemic related stuff, mostly I would say, just generically based on you taking it seriously. While this pandemic could have been much much worse, it is above the threshold for us needing to collectively take it seriously. How exactly to go about handling this, well that is perhaps less clear _some_ times. Mostly I think it is sad that questions with empirical answers become politicized, but part of that blame is on the scientific community and public health officials and how public health is conducted broadly. It is pseudoscientific, at some very early level public health is in equal part about game theory and behavioral economics, as it is about The Science. That probably will not work in the information landscape we are living in and in most countries in the west.
Rugian
Member
Thu Sep 02 11:20:40
The only "death cult" is the one that supports the abortion of 600,000 unborn children in the United States EVERY SINGLE YEAR.
Cloud Strife
Member
Thu Sep 02 12:00:21
Are you vaxxed up Rugian?
Sam Adams
Member
Thu Sep 02 13:36:14
Unwanted babies= future crime and welfare.

Abort em.
Dukhat
Member
Thu Sep 02 13:48:34
Probably gonna help galvanize the left and center in the midterms which were shaping up to be rough for Dems if inflation doesn't come down a little.

Dukhat
Member
Thu Sep 02 13:48:58
Rugian is a pro-life warrior now lol
Rugian
Member
Thu Sep 02 14:25:58
Onward, Christian soldiers,
marching as to war,
With the cross of Jesus
going on before!
Seb
Member
Thu Sep 02 14:26:44
Rugian

"the answer is everyone from the President of the United States"

Biden has called for mandatory vaccination?

Most I can see is that he has called for some employers to require it of their employees, which isn't unusual in e.g. healthcare.
Rugian
Member
Thu Sep 02 14:43:44
Seb

Employer-based vaccine mandates are vaccine mandates.

And no, its not usual practice for the federal government to pressure employers to require employees to receive mandates, any more than it is for the federal government to pressure employers to require employees to say eat healthier or stop drinking.
Rugian
Member
Thu Sep 02 14:45:19
"I'm calling on more companies in the private sector to step up with vaccine requirements that will reach millions more people," Biden said in remarks at the White House. "If you're a business leader, a nonprofit leader, a state or local leader, who has been waiting for full FDA approval to require vaccinations, I call on you now to do that — require it. It only makes sense to require a vaccine to stop the spread of Covid-19."

^that was last week. You really don't see that as a call for vaccine mandates?
murder
Member
Thu Sep 02 19:54:51

He's also called on everyone to vote Democrat. Is that a mandate?

Rugian
Member
Thu Sep 02 19:58:12
If he called on your employer to force you to vote Democrat, then yes it would be a mandate.
murder
Member
Thu Sep 02 20:04:03

Do we need to discuss what the word mandate means?

jergul
large member
Fri Sep 03 00:08:54
Ruggy
You cant have at will employment and think an employer can force vaccination.
Rugian
Member
Fri Sep 03 08:17:43
^ This is such asinine pedantic from both of you that it barely deserves any response.

Sure, even if Biden gets his way there would be ways of avoiding the mandate, if you're willing to go unemployed for the rest of your life. Its still effectively a mandate.
Cloud Strife
Member
Fri Sep 03 08:30:36
Oh no, people don't want to enter into contracts with a plague rat, what a harsh and oppressive society.
Rugian
Member
Fri Sep 03 08:39:38
Plague rat? Did I miss the part where Covid suddenly morphed into a disease with a 33% mortality rate?
Cloud Strife
Member
Fri Sep 03 08:50:30
Among other parts.
Seb
Member
Fri Sep 03 09:43:29
Rugian:

"Employer-based vaccine mandates are vaccine mandates."

In that case, they already exist and have for a long time.

Employers that have a good reason for requiring their employees to be vaccinated should be permitted to make that a requirement. I think it is reasonable for any private employer to require that if you are regularly working indoors with customers or other workers - provided they also pay for it.

This is not the same as mandatory - you do not have to be employed.
Sam Adams
Member
Fri Sep 03 09:46:26
"Onward, Christian soldiers,
marching as to war,
With the cross of Jesus
going on before! "

Catchy tune.

Check out this one though

http://www...urceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8#
Seb
Member
Fri Sep 03 09:46:48
tl;dr - employers making it a requirement of employment where they can show it is reasonable and where they also pay for it seems entirely reasonable to me, once the drugs have full market authorisation. Provided this does not conflict with some other protected characteristics (if an individual is medically unable to have the vaccine, they should be able to get a doctors note or some such)

This does not amount to a mandate in my mind - you can choose not to get vaccinated.
jergul
large member
Fri Sep 03 10:21:40
Seb
Ruggy thinks employers can dismiss people when they want except when it is about something he does not want people to be dismissed for.
patom
Member
Fri Sep 03 10:33:38
Here in Maine, Governor Mills has extended the Vaccine Mandate for health care workers till Oct. 29.
Many of our Hospitals have made Covid 19 vaccination mandatory.
The Military is going to mandate it for the troops as soon as they are FDA approved.
patom
Member
Fri Sep 03 10:38:44
Texas law is easily gotten around for those who are wealthy or well connected. Of course none of those women have unwanted pregnancies. They may have "Female Problems" that require the services of their friendly OBGYN to cure them with a D&C procedure.
As for the trailer trash, slum rats, they are there to make the Jesus freaks feel good by putting them in prison for daring to have an abortion.
Sam Adams
Member
Fri Sep 03 15:30:17
"As for the trailer trash, slum rats, they are there to make the Jesus freaks feel good by putting them in prison for daring to have an abortion."

If its only used to put trash in prison, then it could be a good law.
kargen
Member
Fri Sep 03 17:15:59
"Going around unvaxxed and unmasked is somewhere between drunk driving on steroids ... and opening fire towards a crowd with an assault rifle."

According to the CDC getting vaccinated makes you bullet proof using your analogy so you wouldn't give a shit if people were spraying bullets all over hell and the other half of Georgia.

Not getting vaccinated is putting yourself in greater risk. They are saying vaccinated can spread as easy as non vaccinated and all the vaccine does is lessen the affects of COVID if you do get it.

Here in Colorado we have a shortage of nurses and other health providers and our idiot governor has decided that the same nurses that were able to survive 2020 without the vaccine will not be able to survive without the vaccine now. All medical staff has to get vaccinated or will be unable to work. This is almost as stupid as when he announced a meat free day to promote vegan lifestyles.

And as always the government should have little to no say in what we choose to do with our bodies.
Sam Adams
Member
Fri Sep 03 19:01:02
"They are saying vaccinated can spread as easy as non vaccinated and all the vaccine does is lessen the affects of COVID if you do get it."

Wrong.

No one intelligent is saying this.
Dukhat
Member
Fri Sep 03 19:02:08
Kargen deciding he is an expert on public health now and getting upset about it.

These people work with immuno-compromised people and are required to be vaccinated for other diseases already.

Once again, Kargen is brain dead and apes the far-right talking points about "vaccines causing worker shortages" without any semblance of critical thought.

So much fucking stupid flying around even with Trump out of office.
Dukhat
Member
Fri Sep 03 19:06:11
If you are a healthcare worker and don't understand how important it is to get vaccinated, you are probably fucking incompetent and I am glad you are nowhere near sick patients.
Y2A
Member
Fri Sep 03 19:08:19
They don't care, so why should we?

http://edi...2018/exit-polls/texas/governor

Race by gender
Valdez Abbott No Answer

White men (27%)
23% 75% 2%

White women (29%)
34% 65% 1%

Black men (6%)
75% 24% 1%

Black women (6%)
89% 8% 3%

Latino men (12%)
49% 42% 9%

Latino women (13%)
56% 42% 2%

Others (6%)
46% 53% 1%
kargen
Member
Fri Sep 03 20:28:04
I will agree with you Sam that no one intelligent is saying it but some government officials are. Hell even the CDC is acting as if the vaccines do not matter when it comes to being able to spread the virus to others especially if infected. That is why they are saying even if vaccinated you have to wear a mask and all that other shit.

And no not an expert on public health. I think the government has severely overreached their authority based on biases and opinions. If health employees follow the same strict guidelines they followed in 2020 they will be fine. And even if they do get the vaccination they are still expected to follow those same strict guidelines.
Forwyn
Member
Fri Sep 03 21:02:16
muhhhhhhhhh immunocompromised
Dukhat
Member
Fri Sep 03 21:11:17
The immunocompromised do indeed go to hospitals for care. Many become immunocompromised there because they have to get treated for cancer and so on.

So what point are you trying to make? You think by getting ahead of the point, you somehow invalidate it? Are you that fucking stupid you fat degenerate piece of shit? Oh wait this is Foreskin.

Fucking retard.
Sam Adams
Member
Fri Sep 03 22:57:20
True kargen, the CDC has done a spectacularly poor job this entire time. Perhaps if they focussed on you know, maybe virology, instead of social justice, we wouldnt be in this mess.
Forwyn
Member
Fri Sep 03 23:03:11
No one argued they don't exist, I'm just - again - laughing at the rape/incest scapegoat of 2-3%.

I might have a recessive Asian gene, I'm chronically skinny bro, it's taken me a decade to close in on 200
Dukhat
Member
Sat Sep 04 01:35:46
You dont even know what scapegoat means you stupid fuck.

And the immunocompromised are a much higher percentage of the hospital population for obvious reasons.

Not only that hospitals know this and that they will be liable so that 1 immunocompromised kid becomes a 7 figure settlement because your overweight boomer nurse let herself get redpilled like Aeros and decided not to get vaccinated.

Muh free markets and personal responsibility at work.

Forwyn
Member
Sat Sep 04 01:53:12
Lol, okay. If your point stands, it stands with or without the magical 2% of people no one has met.

Extra lol @ Commies in denial meme-ing about "free markets" vis a vis parasitic healthcare conglomerates enabled by tax-free brackets that created the nursing shortage with Excel-generated provider-patient ratios and minimized provider-patient time. Hospitals were turning over every year to a new corporation, visits were up each year, and staffing remained neutral or became negative, long before Covid.

These are the same entities "minimizing liability". They had no liability six months ago with unvaccinated providers interacting with patients in the same ultraminimized settings. lol.
Dukhat
Member
Sat Sep 04 02:06:13
When the vaccine doesn’t exist, obviously you do the best you can. If it does you get it.

Just doubling down on the stupid. Right wing narratives spread so quickly nowadays and you repeat it just because the fellow dumbass cuckservative white male in your online groups repeat it.
Habebe
Member
Sat Sep 04 02:09:21
As for the TX abortion law, I see. Plenty of left wingers calling it "evil genius" and such (CNN term btw) because it pretty much uses a loophole where citizens sue the doctors out of business, circumventing Roe.

A tactic clearly from the democratic playbook.But you wont hear loophole attempts against guns called "evil genius", even tough that id an actual right in the constitution.

People act like abortion is a right protected in the constitution, but in reality it was a liberal court overreach that exists mostly now due to precedent, not solid law.

Roe was based on an odd loophole yo begin with, that an abortion bans are somehow against the 4th amendment (privacy).

And I'm actually pro abortion, but roe V. Wade is a castle built on sand.If you want abortion as a protected right, either pass.an amendment or treat "my body, my rights" fairly for say drug use or child Support laws.
Forwyn
Member
Sat Sep 04 02:52:25
Meanwhile, cases pending against Remington. Lol

Again, the immunocompromised is a scapegoat. The vast majority of IC can safely receive the vaccine, they'll just need a booster sooner - which has already been approved.
patom
Member
Sat Sep 04 04:20:34
How about a law that mandates DNA testing of all males and all newborn infants. Mandating that children will be the financial responsibility of the male sperm donors.
murder
Member
Sat Sep 04 09:36:22

Forced vasectomies seems like a good compromise to end the scourge of abortion.

jergul
large member
Sat Sep 04 16:46:20
Or for something that is literally being added to the drinking water. On current trends, will not malke sperm counts reach 0 in 35 years? :D.
jergul
large member
Sat Sep 04 16:46:36
male*
Habebe
Member
Sat Sep 04 16:57:53
All dumb solutions, its so simple, just let people hunt unwanted babies.
murder
Member
Sun Sep 05 11:06:23

But that would create increased demand for unwanted babies ... which would increase the value of unwanted babies ... which would make less and less babies unwanted.

My god you've solved the problem of unwanted babies! :o)

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