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Utopia Talk / Politics / Traitor Lee statue finally removed
Im better then you
2012 UP Football Champ
Tue Sep 07 13:46:27
The man that led two of the largest military invasions of US will finally have his statue removed.

http://www...ginia-remove-lee-statue-510136

Virginia is set to remove Richmond's Lee statue on Wednesday
Gov. Ralph Northam announced plans to take down the statue in June 2020.

A towering statue of Confederate Gen. Robert E. Lee in Richmond, Virginia, is expected to be taken down on Wednesday as a symbol of racial injustice, more than 130 years after it was erected in tribute to the South’s Civil War leader.

While many other Confederate symbols across the South have been removed without public announcements beforehand to avoid unruly crowds, Gov. Ralph Northam's office is expecting a multitude and plans to livestream the event on social media.


The plans to remove the statue of Robert E. Lee in Richmond, Va., were stalled for more than a year. | Eze Amos/Getty Images

By ASSOCIATED PRESS

09/07/2021 12:48 PM EDT

A towering statue of Confederate Gen. Robert E. Lee in Richmond, Virginia, is expected to be taken down on Wednesday as a symbol of racial injustice, more than 130 years after it was erected in tribute to the South’s Civil War leader.

While many other Confederate symbols across the South have been removed without public announcements beforehand to avoid unruly crowds, Gov. Ralph Northam's office is expecting a multitude and plans to livestream the event on social media.


Gov. Ralph Northam announced plans to take down the statue in June 2020, 10 days after George Floyd died under the knee of a Minneapolis police officer, sparking nationwide protests against police brutality and racism. The plans were stalled for more than a year by two lawsuits filed by residents opposed to its removal, but rulings last week by the Supreme Court of Virginia cleared the way for the statue to be taken down.


Patrick McSweeney, an attorney for plaintiffs in one of the lawsuits, said Monday that he plans to notify the high court that he will ask for a rehearing, but such requests are rarely granted. From 2016 through 2020, the court granted rehearings in just two of the 86 requests it received, said L. Steven Emmert, an appellate attorney who publishes a website focusing on appellate rulings in Virginia.

"The chances are extremely remote,” Emmert said.

The imposing, 21-foot tall bronze likeness of Lee on a horse sits atop a granite pedestal nearly twice that high in the grassy center of a traffic circle on Richmond’s famed Monument Avenue

“Virginia’s largest monument to the Confederate insurrection will come down this week,” Northam said in news release on Monday. “This is an important step in showing who we are and what we value as a commonwealth.”

In Monday's news release, state officials said that preparations for the statue's removal will began 6 p.m. Tuesday when crews will install protective fencing.

Once the statue is hoisted off the pedestal, it's expected to be cut into two pieces for transport, although the final plan is subject to change, said Dena Potter, a spokeswoman for the state's Department of General Services.

After the statue is taken down Wednesday, crews on Thursday will remove plaques from the base of the monument and will replace a time capsule that is believed to be there.

In Richmond, a city that was the capital of the Confederacy for much of the Civil War, the Lee statue became the epicenter of last summer’s protest movement. The city has removed more than a dozen other pieces of Confederate statuary on city land since Floyd’s death.

As one of the largest and most recognizable Confederate statues in the country, the removal of the Lee statute is expected to draw large crowds.

Limited viewing opportunities will be available on a first‐come, first‐serve basis, state officials said in Monday's news release. The removal will also be livestreamed through the governor's Facebook and Twitter accounts, both of which have the handle of @governorVA.

The Lee statue was created by the internationally renowned French sculptor Marius-Jean-Antonin Mercie and is considered a “masterpiece,” according to its nomination to the National Register of Historic Places, where it has been listed since 2007.

When the statue arrived in 1890 from France, an estimated 10,000 Virginians used wagons to haul its pieces more than a mile to where it now stands. White residents celebrated the statue, but many Black residents have long seen it as a monument glorifying slavery.

The Northam administration has said it would seek public input on the statue’s future. The 40-foot granite pedestal will be left behind for now amid efforts to rethink the design of Monument Avenue. Some racial justice advocates don’t want it removed, seeing the graffiti-covered pedestal as a symbol of the protest movement that erupted after Floyd’s killing.

Lawrence West, 38, member of BLM RVA, an activist group that’s been occupying the transformed space at the Lee monument, said he believes the decision to remove the statue was fueled by the work of protesters.

“I mean, it hadn’t come down before. They (Democrats in charge of state government) had all the opportunities in the world.”

West said he would like to see the statue site turned into a community space “to cultivate all types of connections between different people.”
Rugian
Member
Tue Sep 07 13:50:07
So we are tearing down statues of great men of principle who bravely took up arms to defend their home states when called to serve.

And we are putting up statues of lowlife scumbag career criminals who ODed while resisting arrest.

What a state America is in these days.
Sam Adams
Member
Tue Sep 07 14:03:24
This country is fucked. Taking down a monument to one of the great military leaders of all time, over the whimpering of some low iq rejects and retards... the inmates run the asylum these days. Shakes head sadly.
Im better then you
2012 UP Football Champ
Tue Sep 07 14:07:26
When fakenews becomes fake history.

For the record Gettysburg is in Pennsylvania a nonslave state.

Lee was not a great man of principal. He was a bureaucrat military man who stumbled into treason for reasons that still baffle actual historians.
Rugian
Member
Tue Sep 07 14:18:42
Ibty crying treason, when he spent the last year siding with people who ALSO wanted to tear down statues of everyone from Ulysses Grant to Abraham Lincoln to Thomas Jefferson, is absolutely hilarious.

You don't get to play the patriot card here ibty. You showed your true colors last summer, and you are the furthest thing from someone who loves America.
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Tue Sep 07 14:28:58
He does though, because he actually values the integrity of the UNITED STATES of America. Someone patriotic about that would strongly object to secessionist. YOU on the other hand celebrate the secessionist and thusly can NOT be said to be concerned with a UNITED states of AMERICA!
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Tue Sep 07 14:29:15
!
Rugian
Member
Tue Sep 07 14:43:31
Nim

Very droll.

I'm an American, not a United Statesian. My primary concern is with American VALUES, freedom, right to life, liberty, pursuit of happiness, all that jazz.

It's nice that IBTY is concerned about maintaining the territorial integrity of the US and all. Problem is, he wants the government running that territory to be morphed into USSR 2.0.

The US that he advocates for wouldn't be worth shit.

(or maybe Maoist China 2.0 would be a more appropriate comparison, the recent activities of the left in the past few years have had more than a passing resemblance to being a new Cultural Revolution after all)
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Tue Sep 07 14:57:08
You are a fancy pansy cultural patriot, IBTY is a hardcore STATIST patriot. That is the best I can do, final offer.

The civil war is a defining moment in your history a watershed moment you could say for freedom, right to life, liberty and all that jazz. Abraham Lincoln had to beat the slavery out of the south, so you could stand here and be proud about those values. Would you be proud if slavery was legal in your country?
Im better then you
2012 UP Football Champ
Tue Sep 07 14:58:44
-rugian I didn't and never have supported bringing down all statues.

"I'm an American, not a United Statesian. My primary concern is with American VALUES, freedom, right to life, liberty, pursuit of happiness, all that jazz."

That's why you idolize Noble SLAVE OWNERS and a rebellion to protecting the SLAVEOWNER rights.

"It's nice that IBTY is concerned about maintaining the territorial integrity of the US and all. Problem is, he wants the government running that territory to be morphed into USSR 2.0."

WTF are you talking about? Bernie Sanders is the furtherst left American politican and he does not support government taking over businesses.
murder
Member
Tue Sep 07 15:02:59

"That's why you idolize Noble SLAVE OWNERS and a rebellion to protecting the SLAVEOWNER rights."

Point. Set. Match. :o)

Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Tue Sep 07 15:11:05
Also funny that Rugian mentioned "jazz", since without Abe freeing the blacks, there wouldn't be any Jazz!
murder
Member
Tue Sep 07 15:13:07

"This country is fucked. Taking down a monument to one of the great military leaders of all time, over the whimpering of some low iq rejects and retards... the inmates run the asylum these days. Shakes head sadly."

Rather than erecting monuments in his honor, Lee should have been hung.

Not dealing firmly with confederate traitors is why we're in the situation we are today.
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Tue Sep 07 15:13:12
It would be freedom, right to life, liberty, pursuit of happiness for some, and Jazz for none!
Paramount
Member
Tue Sep 07 15:13:28
” A towering statue of Confederate Gen. Robert E. Lee in Richmond, Virginia, is expected to be taken down on Wednesday”


Well, he was a loser. He lost. No one likes a loser. And certainly not Mr Trump. So you might as well get rid of the statue.
Rugian
Member
Tue Sep 07 15:16:51
I'm pretty sure Virginia didn't secede until Lincoln demanded that it provide troops for an army of invasion to destroy its sister states.

Also, (1) whatever the South's motivations, the North certainly didn't start the war to end slavery, (2) at the outset of the war, the North was governed by a Constitution that explicitly permitted slavery, and (3) while the North may not have had slavery (in most places), it did have child laborers who were being maimed in textile factories, because the 19th century was a shittier era to live in in general.

"I didn't and never have supported bringing down all statues."

That sure wasn't the message you were evoking when you and the entirety of the Democratic Party threw yourselves behind the Marxist movement popularly known as BLM and the (ironically fascist) Antifa crowd.
Sam Adams
Member
Tue Sep 07 15:18:46
"who stumbled into treason for reasons that still baffle actual historians."

Idiotic claim, ignorant of actual history.

Almost all officers - both north and south - had more allegiance to their state than the federal government. Travel was difficult back then, and peoples friends and family usually were close by. Almost everyone therefore simply sided with whatever their state was doing. Slavery for most was not a factor... they merely followed the local crowd.

This is known by any civil war historian.
Sam Adams
Member
Tue Sep 07 15:20:13
"Well, he was a loser."

So was Napoleon. Plenty of statues of him around.
Rugian
Member
Tue Sep 07 15:30:07
Sam

Give it time, IBTY and his friends will fix that too.

"Anti-racism protesters in Martinique tear down statue of Napoleon's wife

Issued on: 27/07/2020 - 13:00"

http://www...ine-beauharnais-racism-slavery
Forwyn
Member
Tue Sep 07 16:56:26
"Not dealing firmly with confederate traitors is why we're in the situation we are today."

What, Californians and New Yorkers crying about Texas laws?
murder
Member
Tue Sep 07 17:28:31

I wasn't talking specifically about Texas. I was talking about idiots feeling emboldened to storm the Capitol and expecting to get away with it. I was talking about idiots getting into armed confrontations with the government so that some moron can graze his cattle on public lands for free and expecting to get away with it. I was talking about all the armed antigovernment "militias" we have all over the country that for some reason aren't crushed with Abrams tanks and Apache attack helicopters.

kargen
Member
Tue Sep 07 18:00:14
funny how you don't talk about a two month siege on a Federal Courthouse.

Your outrage is manufactured and fake.
Habebe
Member
Tue Sep 07 19:38:46
"Well, he was a loser."

So was Napoleon. Plenty of statues of him around.

------

MLK too.
Im better then you
2012 UP Football Champ
Tue Sep 07 22:50:52
Sam Adams
So was Napoleon. Plenty of statues of him around.

Not in Russia


"I'm pretty sure Virginia didn't secede until Lincoln demanded that it provide troops for an army of invasion to destroy its sister states."

Virginia waffled until it was obvious the South was serious about defending the rights of Slaveowners.


(1) whatever the South's motivations, the North certainly didn't start the war to end slavery,

Pre-war Most Northerners thought that slavery would become outdated and die a natural death. When it became obvious that the South was going to try and force slavery on free states and abandon democratic principals is what finally convinced the North to use force to end slavery.

(2) at the outset of the war, the North was governed by a Constitution that explicitly permitted slavery,

The only mention of slavery in US constitution is in reference to the Census.

(3) while the North may not have had slavery (in most places), it did have child laborers who were being maimed in textile factories, because the 19th century was a shittier era to live in in general.

Not a perfect system but at least they could quit, sue, or vote/complain to elected officials and because of that we live in a better world.


Heck look at modern society every institution has had to deal with perverts and predators using there position to exploit more vulnerable. Larry Nasser, Harvey Weinstein, Ted Bundy, Bill O'Reily, Jon Burke, Mikey Dowd, 1/10 catholic priests in 20th century and You really believe the noble slaveowner with few if any checks on his power was immune from such corrption.


Jesse Malcolm Barack
Member
Wed Sep 08 06:59:59
"Problem is, he wants the government running that territory to be morphed into USSR 2.0."

Dude you supported Trump trying to steal a whole damn election and cheered the mob who invaded congress hoping to make Trump an unelected emperor of America
Jesse Malcolm Barack
Member
Wed Sep 08 07:02:23
Dont pretend you care about America dude youve become hot rod
The only thing you care about is repubs being in power no matter what
Dukhat
Member
Wed Sep 08 07:58:21
What's sad is that Sam is trying to flex so hard that Lee was some genius.

Lee was not one of the greatest military leaders of all time. If he fought Grant from the start, he would've been destroyed.

Dude basically fought a chickenshit McClellan who was trying to already become president before fighting even a single battle. Dude was trying to avoid losing rather than using his huge numerical advantage to win.

Battles back then were simple. Victory was being able to move troops quickly to a point of weakness to break their lines and then have enough of a numerical advantage afterwards to push that advantage and capture/kill them as they retreated.

Lee just kept "winning" battles but never accomplished anything meaningful in a strategic sense because those battles were more McClellan losing than Lee winning.

Which is to say, nobody with a brain gives 2 shits about confederate statues being taken down. They were dumbass dumb white men fighting for rich white men who were slave owners.

Pretty much symbolic of Republicans and their idiot white male supporters today.
Sam Adams
Member
Wed Sep 08 11:08:02
"When it became obvious that the South was going to try and force slavery on free states and abandon democratic principals"

Lol. MSNBC writes history books now?
Sam Adams
Member
Wed Sep 08 11:14:35
"Lee was not one of the greatest military leaders of all time. If he fought Grant from the start, he would've been destroyed."

Lol cuckhat the military historian.

Fact is, the army of northern virginia, commanded by Lee mostly, accomplished one of the greatest campaigns in military history. The list of generals/armies that won more and lost less throughout history is very short... Alexander... Caesar... Wellington.
Dukhat
Member
Wed Sep 08 11:55:22
1) He beat the same guy over and over again. Great generals can beat anyone.

2) He was only ok at tactics. He never captured any strategic territory or destroyed the ability of the other side to fight.

3) He was absolutely horrible in the later years of the war and lost battles by larger amounts than he needed to because he kept using the same tactics.

General Lee was at best a mediocre general irrespective about how you feel about slavery or the confederacy.

You elevate him now because you're a cuck. A yankee living in the North talking about how great a shitty confederate general was. Pathetic.

Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Wed Sep 08 12:15:58
All he did was delay the inevitable defeat of the south. That is a big part of the issue, these confederate apologists are stuck with the bitter mentality of loser ancestors. Who on top of being losers, also owned slaves. I thought America was a country of winners! Stop idolizing losers!
patom
Member
Wed Sep 08 12:21:53
A statue erected in 1890 by the segregationist South in order to scare black people.
Rugian
Member
Wed Sep 08 13:39:49
I love Dukhat's third-grade level of understanding of the Civil War.

I remember being a kid and one of first times we covered the war in class, the teacher had significantly dumbed down the timeline to make it easier for us younglings to understand. First Bull Run, McClellan fails to make any advances, Lee wins a bunch, Stonewall Jackson gets shot by his own man, Gettysburg, Grant takes over and starts winning, Sherman marches to the sea, Appomattox.

Hey dumbass, Lee fought a whole bunch of other generals besides McClellan during the war. Lol Dukhat you suck at history.
Dukhat
Member
Wed Sep 08 13:48:25
Nobody cares about those other guys. They were McClellan's shitty revolving door replacements. All of them sucked except for Grant who wasn't even great except he understood what needed to be done.
Dukhat
Member
Wed Sep 08 13:48:50
Now Rugian, the Yankee is starting to join in on "Confederate General Good" because it "ownz the libs"
Sam Adams
Member
Wed Sep 08 14:00:45
"He beat the same guy over and over again. Great generals can beat anyone."

Lees biggest wins were against were against Pope and Hooker, not McLellan.

Dumbass cuckhat cant even get the 101 level shit right.
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Wed Sep 08 14:06:52
Hey guys look, I won every battle, lost the entire war, then I became the symbol for the golden age of a pseudo-feudal failed slave state that lived for almost 5 years!

I really pity you people, because now I understand you and the defeat mentality that is the substrate of all your thoughts.
Rugian
Member
Wed Sep 08 14:14:21
Nimatzo would have preferred working in a Northern textile mill for pennies as opposed to a Southern cotton field for free. Fair enough.
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Wed Sep 08 14:18:43
Those where the seeds of a capitalist system that came to dominate the world financially and culturally. Be patriotic and stand up for American values.
jergul
large member
Wed Sep 08 14:22:28
So would anyone.

Plantation sexual abuse would be reason enough, never mind the cultural genocide. Think about that the next time you go to an Irish pub.

Your relativism is trite, incorrect, but most of all, boring.
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Wed Sep 08 14:26:33
Does that even count as _two_ options?
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Wed Sep 08 14:46:58
I am not denying anyone the right to be proud of their ancestors, even if they were ultimately defeated. I do that with my Iranian history, but at least the ancient king of Iran fucking did something besides owning slaves. They rivaled the Roman empires might with a much smaller population. You know, the kind of odds the south had. We were one of the greatest civilizations and empires for over a THOUSAND years. They ruled the civilized world and crushed Roman armies and captured Valarian and used him as a footstool! We burned down Athens bitches! TWICE! We traded silk and spice from coroners of the earth.

All of it gone now :,( so the stories are all I have, but god dam it my ancestors stories are the real stuff of legends!

See you have to win wars and territories, bring home the loot and feast! To the be robbed of all that and taste the bitter taste of defeat. That is perhaps the saddest part of all of this, the south didn't even lose, they were never contenders to being with!

murder
Member
Wed Sep 08 15:13:10

"A statue erected in 1890 by the segregationist South in order to scare black people."

Yep. All those monuments served the purpose of reminding blacks who was still in charge.

jergul
large member
Wed Sep 08 16:02:02
Nimi
That was for Ruggy :)
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Wed Sep 08 16:34:22
Jergul
Me too, for Rugian et. al. But what you said "So would anyone." made me think, is it even fair of Rugian to call it a "preference" that I or anyone would choose something other than being a literal slave? I can't think of many situations where being a slave would be the best option. Life must be really really bad and those textile factories, where not that bad. A fucking resort in comparison!
Sam Adams
Member
Wed Sep 08 16:51:50
"and those textile factories, where not that bad."

The textile factories sucked donkey balls for a long time. The average slave had a worse life... but perhaps not by all that much.
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