Utopia Talk - Politics - California bans bacon!!!

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Utopia Talk / Politics / California bans bacon!!!

Habebe
Member Tue Sep 14 23:42:08
So goes the headlines...

In reality they are implementing from what I understand, some of the strongest livestock protection laws on the books.

Now I don't know all of the nitty gritty details, such as the exemptions.

But at the very least this is a step in the right direction.Cali finally gets something right.

And no they didnt ban any food items, unless they are from factory farms that are too confining, honestly this law should be steadily strengthened over time.

Covid 19 didn't start in a factory farm, but it could have easily, they are dangerous to life on earth.

Cloud Strife
Member Wed Sep 15 13:15:07
Regulations save money and lives. The sooner ancap ideology dies, the better we can move forward.

Nimatzo
iChihuaha Wed Sep 15 13:22:21
Ethical bacon is the best.

Habebe
Member Wed Sep 15 13:33:09
Nimatzo, Its more than kust ethical treatment (which I do find important) it's a safety issue as well, factory farms could easily cause the next pandemic, as well as environmental concerns.

It's dangerous.Once again though the media (mostly right wing in this instance) is tagging this as crazy banning of bacon.

Nimatzo
iChihuaha Wed Sep 15 13:38:39
Mmmm ethical and organic bacon.

jergul
large member Wed Sep 15 13:38:44
As a former active genocide practioner (no, not the human species), I would have to say that the ethical treatment of all animals is perhaps the yardstick by which we should measure the success of human existence.

Its crazy the things we tell ourselves are ok.

Sam Adams
Member Wed Sep 15 13:43:17
"Regulations save money and lives."

That depends on the regulation. Some are wise, such as, dont fly below weather minimums on approach to aspen.

Others are retarded and pointless, such as taking your shoes off before going through the tsa full body scanner.

Nimatzo
iChihuaha Wed Sep 15 13:45:25
Right, but so far it only applies to animals that live on land. Because we will just pull the fish up by the thousands and slowly asphyxiate them. It's because they make no noise when dying. Dolphins have managed to get on our good side, they make noise, cute noise. Whales kinda, but they are not as cute and too big and sharks, well they are basically cold emotionless monsters straight out of a horror story. Poor sharks.

People are strange.

Nimatzo
iChihuaha Wed Sep 15 13:45:40
^jergul

Habebe
Member Wed Sep 15 13:59:14
We definitely over fish and have no real mechanism globally to deal with it.

Deer sound horrendous when they die, I remember an early tag along hunting with my dad and my dad had words with some guy who shot a deer and was just sitting with it while it died painfully.

We always took a pistol for close up euthanasia at that point.

But even in deer diseases spread, Chronic wasting disease is bad, we have testing locations for the disease as it can be asymptomatic until the end.

kargen
Member Wed Sep 15 13:59:20
For pigs (sows) basically instead of the current market standard of 16 square feet of space the sow will get 24 square feet of space.
The market was already moving away from the very small pens that didn't allow the sows to move around.
The unintended consequence of this law at least short term will be pork producers will reduce the pen space for sows not intended for the California market to expand pen space for the sows producing pigs that will end up as bacon in California.

Long term solution would be either convert existing buildings and raise less product or expand buildings. So if we don't want more land used to put up ugly assed metal buildings we need to eat less pork.

We should all be eating more rabbit. Better water to protein ratio, doesn't compete with humans for food source and takes less resources to produce.

The confining pens came to be in part because sows sometimes eat or bite causing death the first few piglets born. Also sows especially those with their first litter will roll over and crush their piglets from time to time. The small pens were designed to prevent that from happening. The small confining pens also made it much easier and cheaper to feed and care for the pigs especially the sows.

kargen
Member Wed Sep 15 14:03:20
Should add the 16 square feet is becoming the standard and is voluntary. Most the larger pork producers have agreed to that standard but some mid size companies are holding out probably because they can not afford the change.

Sam Adams
Member Wed Sep 15 15:04:01
"Deer sound horrendous when they die"

Not if you hit em in the vitals with a big hollow point and rip everything to shreads. Ive been fortunate i guess, the deer ive harvested or seen buddies harvest were dead within a dozen yards. Poor beasts didnt feel much. Ive always thought bow hunting was a bit of a dick move... they live for a while. Or taking shitty shots.

Sam Adams
Member Wed Sep 15 15:05:40
"some guy who shot a deer and was just sitting with it while it died painfully. "

What a dick. Cant afford a second round?

Habebe
Member Wed Sep 15 15:32:38
Sam, I was like 12 or 13, it really stuck with me.That sound isn't one you forget.

I was trained to aim a little above the base of the neck ( to account for distance) hopefully severing the spine, but any solid shot in the neck will cause a quick death.Unless your close enough for a head shot.

Also, as an ex butchers assistant in HS (also a fish monger) I prefer butchering my own meat.You will get more meat and and I also dont like the blood taste or hair in my meat.

Down here it still baffles me that common practice is NOT to gut it on the spot. For starters its just lighter to carry, but its gross too.

Habebe
Member Wed Sep 15 15:33:18
You also risk rupturing organs like the bladder, and no one wants pissy meat.

Sam Adams
Member Wed Sep 15 16:45:20
Yup, get the weight down and get rid of the digestive track asap. Ive always taken the quarters plus backstraps. Maybe the hide if my buddy wants it. Aim just behind the forward shoulder. The heart and lungs are a big target, so a wounding shot is less likely. A big expanding round will blow up the lungs/heart so severly that the animal will be dead in seconds. The easiest way to "miss" is to hit the forward part of the heart/lungs, knicking the forward shoulder, which will ruin a small amount of kindof crappy meat, and still put the animal down near instantly.

show deleted posts

Habebe Member	Tue Sep 14 23:42:08 So goes the headlines... In reality they are implementing from what I understand, some of the strongest livestock protection laws on the books. Now I don't know all of the nitty gritty details, such as the exemptions. But at the very least this is a step in the right direction.Cali finally gets something right. And no they didnt ban any food items, unless they are from factory farms that are too confining, honestly this law should be steadily strengthened over time. Covid 19 didn't start in a factory farm, but it could have easily, they are dangerous to life on earth.
Cloud Strife Member	Wed Sep 15 13:15:07 Regulations save money and lives. The sooner ancap ideology dies, the better we can move forward.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Wed Sep 15 13:22:21 Ethical bacon is the best.
Habebe Member	Wed Sep 15 13:33:09 Nimatzo, Its more than kust ethical treatment (which I do find important) it's a safety issue as well, factory farms could easily cause the next pandemic, as well as environmental concerns. It's dangerous.Once again though the media (mostly right wing in this instance) is tagging this as crazy banning of bacon.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Wed Sep 15 13:38:39 Mmmm ethical and organic bacon.
jergul large member	Wed Sep 15 13:38:44 As a former active genocide practioner (no, not the human species), I would have to say that the ethical treatment of all animals is perhaps the yardstick by which we should measure the success of human existence. Its crazy the things we tell ourselves are ok.
Sam Adams Member	Wed Sep 15 13:43:17 "Regulations save money and lives." That depends on the regulation. Some are wise, such as, dont fly below weather minimums on approach to aspen. Others are retarded and pointless, such as taking your shoes off before going through the tsa full body scanner.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Wed Sep 15 13:45:25 Right, but so far it only applies to animals that live on land. Because we will just pull the fish up by the thousands and slowly asphyxiate them. It's because they make no noise when dying. Dolphins have managed to get on our good side, they make noise, cute noise. Whales kinda, but they are not as cute and too big and sharks, well they are basically cold emotionless monsters straight out of a horror story. Poor sharks. People are strange.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Wed Sep 15 13:45:40 ^jergul
Habebe Member	Wed Sep 15 13:59:14 We definitely over fish and have no real mechanism globally to deal with it. Deer sound horrendous when they die, I remember an early tag along hunting with my dad and my dad had words with some guy who shot a deer and was just sitting with it while it died painfully. We always took a pistol for close up euthanasia at that point. But even in deer diseases spread, Chronic wasting disease is bad, we have testing locations for the disease as it can be asymptomatic until the end.
kargen Member	Wed Sep 15 13:59:20 For pigs (sows) basically instead of the current market standard of 16 square feet of space the sow will get 24 square feet of space. The market was already moving away from the very small pens that didn't allow the sows to move around. The unintended consequence of this law at least short term will be pork producers will reduce the pen space for sows not intended for the California market to expand pen space for the sows producing pigs that will end up as bacon in California. Long term solution would be either convert existing buildings and raise less product or expand buildings. So if we don't want more land used to put up ugly assed metal buildings we need to eat less pork. We should all be eating more rabbit. Better water to protein ratio, doesn't compete with humans for food source and takes less resources to produce. The confining pens came to be in part because sows sometimes eat or bite causing death the first few piglets born. Also sows especially those with their first litter will roll over and crush their piglets from time to time. The small pens were designed to prevent that from happening. The small confining pens also made it much easier and cheaper to feed and care for the pigs especially the sows.
kargen Member	Wed Sep 15 14:03:20 Should add the 16 square feet is becoming the standard and is voluntary. Most the larger pork producers have agreed to that standard but some mid size companies are holding out probably because they can not afford the change.
Sam Adams Member	Wed Sep 15 15:04:01 "Deer sound horrendous when they die" Not if you hit em in the vitals with a big hollow point and rip everything to shreads. Ive been fortunate i guess, the deer ive harvested or seen buddies harvest were dead within a dozen yards. Poor beasts didnt feel much. Ive always thought bow hunting was a bit of a dick move... they live for a while. Or taking shitty shots.
Sam Adams Member	Wed Sep 15 15:05:40 "some guy who shot a deer and was just sitting with it while it died painfully. " What a dick. Cant afford a second round?
Habebe Member	Wed Sep 15 15:32:38 Sam, I was like 12 or 13, it really stuck with me.That sound isn't one you forget. I was trained to aim a little above the base of the neck ( to account for distance) hopefully severing the spine, but any solid shot in the neck will cause a quick death.Unless your close enough for a head shot. Also, as an ex butchers assistant in HS (also a fish monger) I prefer butchering my own meat.You will get more meat and and I also dont like the blood taste or hair in my meat. Down here it still baffles me that common practice is NOT to gut it on the spot. For starters its just lighter to carry, but its gross too.
Habebe Member	Wed Sep 15 15:33:18 You also risk rupturing organs like the bladder, and no one wants pissy meat.
Sam Adams Member	Wed Sep 15 16:45:20 Yup, get the weight down and get rid of the digestive track asap. Ive always taken the quarters plus backstraps. Maybe the hide if my buddy wants it. Aim just behind the forward shoulder. The heart and lungs are a big target, so a wounding shot is less likely. A big expanding round will blow up the lungs/heart so severly that the animal will be dead in seconds. The easiest way to "miss" is to hit the forward part of the heart/lungs, knicking the forward shoulder, which will ruin a small amount of kindof crappy meat, and still put the animal down near instantly.
	show deleted posts

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