Utopia Talk / Politics / Truck Drivers - Canada and UK

Pillz Member	Wed Oct 06 06:38:37 "What's behind a trucker shortage in Canada? Britain's labour crisis offers a clue" http://www...ruck-driver-shortage-1.6198830 What's behind a trucker shortage in Canada? Britain's labour crisis offers a clue Trucking companies trying to recruit more diverse pool of drivers as aging workforce nears retirement Jaela Bernstien - CBC News Posted: October 04, 2021 Last Updated: October 05, 2021 While the British government sends in the army to help deliver fuel to gas stations, Canada's trucking industry is watching the crisis unfold with concern as it grapples with its own shortage of truck drivers. Last week, the labour shortage in Britain strained supply chains and triggered chaotic scenes of panic-buying at the pumps. Since then, British Finance Minister Rishi Sunak said the situation is stabilizing and that sending in the military was an "extra precaution," after the shortage set off a chain reaction that affected everything from petrol and pork to medicine and milk. "It's pretty scary. We're not at that point so far. And we hope we will never get there," said Marc Cadieux, the president of the Quebec Trucking Association. ADVERTISEMENT He said in Quebec alone, they need somewhere between 2,000 and 3,000 truck drivers. "Our carriers are complaining that they have the work but they don't have the workers." U.K. military begins fuel delivery amid driver shortage U.K. to issue thousands of temporary truck driver visas to ease supply-chain problems In the second quarter of 2021, an average of 18,000 truck driver jobs needed filling in Canada, according to the latest report from Trucking HR Canada, an organization that focuses on addressing workforce issues and challenges in the trucking and logistics sector. The labour shortage crisis in the United Kingdom came from a perfect storm of factors — the combination of Brexit immigration rules, the impacts of COVID-19, on top of other underlying issues such as an aging workforce and poor working conditions. Brexit aside, Canada's trucking industry is struggling with some of those same issues. ADVERTISEMENT Tap to see caption Tap to see caption Retiring truckers, work-life balance a struggle Already, trucking companies are struggling to fill vacancies, and they expect a looming wave of retirements will create a lot more openings in the near future. According to a 2019 report by Statistics Canada based on 2016 Census data, 31 per cent of male transport truck drivers were at least 55 years old, while just 22 per cent of the total employed population across all occupations was aged 55 and over. The job was also considered to be "among the top occupations for the most employer-reported vacancies in recent years." Angela Splinter, CEO at Trucking HR Canada, said they're trying to expand their workforce by recruiting younger drivers and more women, but it's difficult. "We know that work-life balance is a concern in our industry. The longer the haul, the harder it is to recruit people," she said. "We know that internally, within the industry, we need to address that." According to projections from Trucking HR Canada, the country needs to hire about 17,230 new truck drivers per year up until 2025 to keep up with demand. ADVERTISEMENT "Trucks are parked. It means trucking companies aren't moving those goods," Splinter said. Labour shortages in the trucking industry can quickly ripple out and impact a wide range of sectors, as the United Kingdom has seen in recent weeks. British pork industry warns of massive pig cull due to labour shortages U.K. government sees 'tentative' signs fuel crisis is easing "We support almost every other essential service — agriculture, manufacturing, forestry, the list goes on," Splinter said. "We're all impacted when we don't have enough drivers." While the lack of drivers in Canada is only affecting non-essential goods for the time being, she said they need to tackle the problem now to prevent it from getting worse. Recruiting women, youth and new Canadians In order to attract more drivers, the Quebec Trucking Association, with financial support from the province, rolled out a campaign called Choose Your Way, or Choisis Ta Route, in French. ADVERTISEMENT They've focused on three major pillars to address shortages in Quebec: recruiting more women, promoting truck-driving jobs to immigrants and retaining as many older drivers as possible. Currently women represent four per cent of the truck driver workforce in Quebec. The Quebec Trucking Association is aiming to increase that to 10 per cent. VIDEO A 'demographic tsunami' is about to make Canada's trucker shortage even worse Mark Seymour, CEO of Kriska Transportation Group, said a certain amount of churn is a given in the industry and it's tough to recruit when competing with other jobs that offer a better work-life balance. Kriska Transportation employs about 900 drivers, and Seymour says that at any given time, 20 to 30 of those jobs are open. "It's just very frustrating to have that much equipment sitting, when it could otherwise be working." ADVERTISEMENT He said the industry is not at a crisis point yet, but he's worried about what will happen if demand increases and the labour supply continues to shrink. Peace Bridge Ontario 20201021 Trucks line up on the Peace Bridge in Fort Erie, Ont., as they enter the United States in October 2020. An aging workforce, long hauls and poor working conditions are just some of the factors contributing to a shortage of labour when it comes to truck drivers in Canada. (Frank Gunn/The Canadian Press) That's a concern shared by Teamsters Canada, the union representing many of Canada's truck drivers. "What we're seeing is employers offering those who have recently retired opportunities to come back and drive trucks, because they just cannot get younger people to do the job," said John McCann, the national freight and tankhaul director for Teamsters Canada. According to McCann, it's difficult to recruit young people in the trucking industry. He gave the example of a friend's son, who had dreamed of being a truck driver since he was a child. McCann said he helped find him a job that would have paid $60,000-$70,000. It was a day run, meaning no overnight trips, with no inter-provincial travel. Still, he said the young man lasted four days. "His dad called me up and said, 'John I apologize, he couldn't do it,'" McCann said. The 4 a.m. start time and crossing the Peace Bridge into the U.S. every day turned him off. ADVERTISEMENT McCann says those are the types of stories he's heard about why younger people aren't interested in trucking as a career. Training expense One key barrier for new hires is the expense of the training required to get a commercial driver's licence, which can cost between $5,000 and $10,000, depending on the province and the training school. "Those [younger people] that would consider a career in trucking, those that would consider this blue collar type work, we know we're losing them to other industries. Construction is our number one competition for those workers," said Splinter, with Trucking HR Canada. "You can go work in construction tomorrow, depending on the job." She says her organization hopes to see more government subsidies across the country that would make the cost of entry more accessible.
Pillz Member	Wed Oct 06 06:39:15 Also, CBC should be treated the same as RT on social media. State sponsored media service.
murder Member	Wed Oct 06 07:09:03 Go driverless.
Forwyn Member	Wed Oct 06 11:28:10 ^lol
Paramount Member	Wed Oct 06 12:55:49 ” He said in Quebec alone, they need somewhere between 2,000 and 3,000 truck drivers.” Well, it could be worse. As long as people aren’t getting laid off, its all good. Maybe Canada can ask Americans living in Canada to change career to truck drivers.
murder Member	Wed Oct 06 18:06:48 "^lol" The answer to difficulty filling jobs that people don't want to do is always automation. Or immigrants, and nobody wants any of those.
Habebe Member	Wed Oct 06 18:14:43 You left out slavery.
murder Member	Wed Oct 06 19:19:11 I did. It was an oversight. :o)
Forwyn Member	Thu Oct 07 12:08:56 "jobs that people don't want to do" In Seb's case, people want to do the jobs, the government used Covid as an excuse to shut down testing and cause a bottleneck.
Seb Member	Thu Oct 07 13:27:40 Forwyn: That accounts for maybe a third of the shortage.
murder Member	Thu Oct 07 14:27:24 It's 2021. There's no reason why an untrained unlicensed rando can't hop into a rig and drive it with a joystick with a computer compensating for any driver deficiency.
patom Member	Thu Oct 07 15:21:05 I would love to see robot trucks delivering fuel to gas/petrol stations. Hooking up 4" hoses to trailers or getting all the plumbing hooked up to pump loads. Vapor recovery is now the norm. What could go wrong??? lmao
Forwyn Member	Thu Oct 07 16:11:19 "That accounts for maybe a third of the shortage." As reported by the bureaucrats who cause it, based on the queues? Lol. No one has time to wait six months to collect their first paycheck. Obviously the number is higher than reported, and difficult to quantify. "There's no reason why an untrained unlicensed rando can't hop into a rig and drive it with a joystick with a computer compensating for any driver deficiency." For OTR maybe. Check out some of the 3PL/LTL accounts. Little shithole small businesses off two lane roads, or a guy with a forklift on a dirt driveway, but they add up to a significant share of the market. Even a lot of large manufacturing locales weren't designed for docks. It will be a good while before those guys get replaced, and longer before politicians allow it. And lol @ the incident reports when the computer is backing and some retard tries to fly around and blames said computer
Seb Member	Fri Oct 08 03:11:03 Forwyn: "As reported by the bureaucrats who cause it, based on the queues? Lol." I already explained that it wasn't the bureaucrats, it was the politicians looking for budget cuts. It's based on the number of people who normally apply in a year, and the current backlog. LOL! Data. LOL!. " Obviously the number is higher than reported, and difficult to quantify." Not really. Only if you are totally clueless, such as yourself.
EuropeanPussy Member	Fri Oct 08 03:26:59 I want the opinion of Fred on this matter.
patom Member	Fri Oct 08 04:36:06 I can hear the crying of the food industry. Where's the driver? He's supposed to unload the palatized load onto our pallets. We can't have our own employees doing that. Not everyone is willing to spend 4-6 days a week in a truck. No home life, never getting to sleep in a bed that isn't bouncing around. When you do get home you are running around trying to get essential home chores done.
Forwyn Member	Fri Oct 08 07:33:19 "I already explained" And I'm not taking your one-sided word for it, not while DVSA cucks are striking due to "Covid fears". "the current backlog. LOL! Data. LOL!." As I said, the queues. So now you're relegated to the queues, instead of being able to incentivize more into the industry. LOL!
Seb Member	Fri Oct 08 07:48:53 Forwyn: DVSA accredited testers are striking because they are being asked to cram in an extra test in the working day to clear the backlog created by the govt deciding to suspend testing during lockdown. That's not COVID fears. It's "rushed tests and lower standards" free. "As I said, the queues" No, also how many we'd typically test in the year. "So now you're relegated to the queues," Which clearly shows the issue is entirely due to a shutdown in testing versus a large number of drivers exiting the market how, exactly?
Forwyn Member	Fri Oct 08 10:46:55 "cram in an extra test in the working day to clear the backlog created by the govt deciding to suspend testing during lockdown." Classic. Driving the nail home on my first full comment in this thread. "No, also how many we'd typically test in the year." And doesn't account for the numbers in which the industry could attempt to surge with recruitment incentives. "exiting the market" Lol what?
Seb Member	Fri Oct 08 12:02:34 Forwyn: I see, so if your boss unilaterally decided to increase your hours by 15% , but keep your pay fixed, and decrease safety of your workplace, you'd do that withoutv question would ou? That's pretty sad.
Seb Member	Fri Oct 08 12:03:25 "And doesn't account for the numbers in which the industry could attempt" The number of examiners is the number of examiners. We don't keep lots on the books kicking their heels.
Seb Member	Fri Oct 08 12:04:51 Forwyn: "Lol what" Not sure what's hard about that concept...
Forwyn Member	Fri Oct 08 13:19:19 "That's pretty sad." "Not sure what's hard about that concept..." Yeah neither concept is hard, you're just inventing new avenues as we go. You've presented nothing to show that testing would add another test at the end of the day. Regardless, the issue is caused by their bare minimum approach to begin with; we know there was a chronic backlog before the shutdown. "The number of examiners is the number of examiners." Which was my point to begin with - the bottleneck is government licensing, not driver pay structure, which is exceedingly lucrative given the educational level and labor intensity involved.
Seb Member	Fri Oct 08 14:28:04 Forwyn: How is "EU based truck drivers and delivery firms that used to serve the UK and have exited the UK market" a new concept here? "You've presented nothing to show that testing would add another test at the end of the day." It is literally the reason for the strike on the strike ballot. Do you really need a link? http://www...208th%20test%20strike&e=finger "Which was my point to begin with - the bottleneck is government licensing" And as I explained, the examiners are private sector contractors; not "bureaucrats wanting to not go in the office" as you originally claimed; nor is it a bottleneck. The backlog is a combination of not running exams during lockdown (politically driven spending cuts) about 30% and a sudden absence of EU trucking firms and drivers (60%). If the Govt wants to retain more examiners, first of all it needs to certify more examiners, and then it needs to agree to pay them - the small problem is they are not going to pay themselves to become certified examiners and trainers if they know they are not going to get contracted in future once the glut is cleared. So the Govt is going need to pony up and pay for people to get certified as examiners, not try and change their R&C's to agree to run 8 tests a day for the same pay. So lets be clear again: Biggest cause: Brexit induced driver shortage Second biggest cause: Politically motivated budget cuts. Root cause: Swivel eyed Frowyn's that make governments develop policies leading to those two things. What is not a cause: Lazy bureaucrats don't want to work. That is a mad fantasy you invented with no basis in fact because there simply are no bureaucrats involved in the process.
Forwyn Member	Fri Oct 08 14:41:56 "It is literally the reason for the strike on the strike ballot. Do you really need a link?" Maybe you shouldn't try to be condescending when, again, you're inventing things. It is said the eighth test fits into the current working day. http://www...-additional-daily-driving-test "the examiners are private sector contractors" A useless distinction, when things as minuscule as daily scheduling are dictated by the DVSA. "nor is it a bottleneck." Are you being intentionally retarded? If there is a large pool waiting to be accepted, with only a few trickling few weekly while applicants are waiting 24 weeks to get a test, THIS IS A BOTTLENECK. "So the Govt is going need to pony up" Yes. If they are going to mandate licensing schemes for an essential private service, they need to ensure it is done in a timely manner. "Root cause: Swivel eyed Frowyn's that make governments develop policies leading to those two things." Forwyns would shut down essential services due to muhhhh Covid? Lol. If you shut down testing you void your right to demand licensing. Try again. "Lazy bureaucrats don't want to work. That is a mad fantasy you invented with no basis in fact because there simply are no bureaucrats involved in the process." Lol. Gubmint contracting through agents doesn't change the addressing. DVSA still working half classes due to muh social distancing in Scotland, DVLA workers walking out every month due to muh Covid
Seb Member	Sat Oct 09 05:20:30 Forwyn: "but these pilots took place in the best conditions in terms of weather, daylight and traffic conditions." I.e. no, they won't fit into a standard day because they pilots to place during a period when there were few cars on the road, and during optional conditions of daylight and weather. "A useless distinction, when things as minuscule as daily scheduling are dictated by the DVSA." Not really when you think about it. Your implication is that these are govt employees that get paid whether they work or not. Indeed in the last thread you talked about staying home. Actually these are private contractors who have an inventive to work, because they get paid per day of examining, but are not going to up their hours for the same fee. Also because most examiners are also instructors, you are cannibalising training. "If there is a large pool waiting to be accepted, with only a few trickling few weekly while applicants are waiting 24 weeks to get a test, THIS IS A BOTTLENECK." Typically a bottleneck would represent a permanent constriction of supply. Broadly the number of people entering the queue is less than the capacity of thhe flow through the system. The reason there is a queue is because the govt decided to save money by stopping tests. If you want to increase the capacity of the system to quickly process the backlog, then you will have huge redundant testing capacity very shortly afterwards. How, given that people wanting to become examiners need to pay for their own training and accreditation, and the response of the govt to having too many examiners in a few months, will be to cut the account it pays for each test and there's a certainty that you won't get hours... does it seem to you likely that loads of people are going to rush and sign up to become examiners?
Seb Member	Sat Oct 09 05:25:21 "Forwyns would shut down essential services due to muhhhh Covid?" Yeah, you'd totally it essential taxes to reduce govt spending. That's your thing. "DVLA workers walking out every month due to muh Covid" DVLA don't manage testing though. And 500 case cluster is a large one, Eric does suggest unsafe working. Besides almost all the work DVLA does is clerical and can be done remotely. Honestly the entire DVLA could be 500 staff, two databases and a web front end. The only reason it isn't is because every time the Civil Service starts eyeing it up for redundancy, the politicians realised it will screw up Swansea's economy and chicken out.
kargen Member	Mon Oct 11 14:20:16 Colorado has a shortage for snow plow drivers, road workers and all kinds of other stuff that actually pays really well because they don't want to take the drug test. Those jobs being government jobs you can't smoke pot and take those jobs. Many large truck companies in the US have the same problem Drivers don't want to work for them because of the mandatory drug testing policies.
Pillz Member	Mon Oct 11 15:52:01 Drug tests are bullshit, I hope Colorado is buried and leaned their lesson
patom Member	Mon Oct 11 17:19:17 Kargen, do you really want to be on the road with 80K trucks with a stoned driver behind the wheel? It's bad enough being on the road with guys using truck driving pills let alone someone nodding off. I can honestly say that I've never got behind the wheel of a truck while under the influence. Over 3 million miles in my time.
kargen Member	Mon Oct 11 17:32:43 I didn't say whether the policy was a good or bad policy but no I would just as soon the drivers be sober well rested and awake. Going into a truck stop and visiting with drivers about to get back in their trucks should scare the fuck out of just about anybody. Would be ideal if they could adopt a test that would only flag marijuana if it was recently used. Say 48 hours. If a person doesn't go back out on the road until Tuesday why not let them unwind a bit on Friday night?
patom Member	Tue Oct 12 04:57:18 A marijuana test would be good. It's problematic that THC still shows in piss tests up to 30 days after use. Not a problem for me in that I quit trying it after I shared a joint with a girlfriend back in the 70's and went totally nuts with the munchies. I don't like not being in control. My wife does 10 mg in a chocolate bar every night. It helps with her nightmares. There are probably many uses that help people. As in many cases of prescription drugs that you shouldn't drive.
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