Utopia Talk - Politics - Texas wants to teach another

Welcome to the Utopia Forums! Register a new account
The current time is Sat Apr 20 04:26:41 2024

Utopia Talk / Politics / Texas wants to teach another

patom
Member Fri Oct 15 11:39:03
perspective to the Holocaust.
https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/texas-school-administrator-told-teachers-to-include-holocaust-books-with-opposing-views-1.5624252

Sam Adams
Member Fri Oct 15 12:41:33
I wonder if the hamas caucus of leftists agrees with this

murder
Member Fri Oct 15 12:58:21

Personally I think they should study the inefficiencies in the Nazi plan to get every Jew from the ghettos to the ash heap.

Develop a set of best practices.

Forwyn
Member Fri Oct 15 13:18:01
Out-German the Germans? A tall task

kargen
Member Fri Oct 15 13:18:05
Nice sensational headline you have there patom! Doesn't really have anything much to do with the story though. Kind of like those headlines in the right column of facebook "The Real Reason Brady Left the Patriots" and it ends up being an ad for hemp oil.
Going through some of her tweets it seems pretty clear she opposes the new law and was trying to come up with something outlandish to show how bad it is and it backfired on her. You get that vibe just from the article with this exchange.

"How do you oppose the Holocaust?" one teacher could be heard asking.

"Believe me," Peddy said in a longer recording obtained by NBC. "That's come up."

Basically she is suggesting the law will be used to promote racism.

Dukhat
Member Fri Oct 15 13:29:58
Really it's about philosophy. If 6 million jews die in an gas chamber and nobody else is around to see or hear it, did it really happen?

patom
Member Fri Oct 15 13:30:58
The law may not have been written to target the Holocaust. More like another attempt by the Evangelicals to force 'creationism' into school curriculum.

patom
Member Fri Oct 15 13:33:40
I really don't think there are a ton of books out there documenting an alternative or rationalization of the Holocaust. Or the events of Pearl Harbor.

kargen
Member Fri Oct 15 13:38:40
The law is in response to critical race theory. It says theories on race must be accompanied by opposing theories.

Norm Macdonald did a ventriloquism act on a radio show (Dennis Miller's show) and said one of his dummies was a holocaust denier. Whole bit is really funny. The end joke Norm says one of his Jewish friends suggests he should burn the dummy and Norm responds two wrongs doesn't make a right. You can hear the groans in the background.

Anyway this is a left wing person trying to undermine the law. If she were a Republican she would already be fired.

murder
Member Fri Oct 15 17:09:45

"I really don't think there are a ton of books out there documenting an alternative or rationalization of the Holocaust. Or the events of Pearl Harbor."

There's plenty of holocaust denial. None from reputable publishers, but plenty nonetheless.

Habebe
Member Fri Oct 15 18:22:22
PAtom, In all fairness pearl harbor was a rational act.A fatally dumb one, but still.

FDR initiated acts of war against Japan.

Habebe
Member Fri Oct 15 18:28:05
What this seems like is an over reaching openness to discussion.

Its in response to the left wanting everything to have only definitive side.Well not everything is blacl and white.

If the downside is we hear some crazier points of view or your only allowed to have approved points of view, Id rather decide for myself.

patom
Member Sat Oct 16 04:31:19
Nah, it's just another end around to instill creationism in the school curriculum in Texas.

kargen
Member Sat Oct 16 04:52:43
This is the part that has the left raising hell. Also another part that says they can't teach one race is better than others or a person is racist based on their race. Not a mention of Creationism or religion in general in the entire bill.

"no teacher shall be compelled by a policy of any
state agency, school district, campus, open-enrollment charter school, or school administration to discuss current events or widely debated and currently controversial issues of public policy or social affairs;
(2) teachers who choose to discuss current events or widely debated and currently controversial issues of public policy or social affairs shall, to the best of their ability, strive to explore such issues from diverse and contending perspectives without giving deference to any one perspective;
(3) no school district or teacher shall require, make part of a course, or award course grading or credit including extra credit for, student work for, affiliation with, or service learning in association with any organization engaged in lobbying for legislation at the local, state or federal level, or in social or public policy advocacy; and
(4) no school district or teacher shall require, make part of a course, or award course grading or credit including extra credit for, political activism, lobbying, or efforts to persuade members of the legislative or executive branch to take specific actions by direct communication at the local, state or federal level, or any practicum or like activity involving social or public policy advocacy."

patom
Member Sat Oct 16 06:26:23
Kargen, do you honestly think that current affairs should not be discussed in schools? At what age will students be encouraged to hear or discuss current events?

Habebe
Member Sat Oct 16 07:33:57
It just sets the standard to be open to multiple view points on a topic.Sounds reasonable.

patom
Member Sat Oct 16 08:10:10
So what topic?
Slavery?
9/11?
Segregation?
Lynching?
The last POTUS election?
Jan, 6?

Habebe
Member Sat Oct 16 09:01:00
Patom, Obviously common sense discretion applies.

Would you rather habe teachers foster open discussion or dogmatic answers?

I see no problem with say a mock debate on all of those topics for example.

Habebe
Member Sat Oct 16 09:28:40
The down side of a free and open society is that you will deal with some crazies and crazy ideas.

This isn't soley the domain of the right by a long shot.

kargen
Member Sat Oct 16 22:45:30
"Kargen, do you honestly think that current affairs should not be discussed in schools?"

What in anything I typed made you think that?

I copy and pasted the actual law. I offered no opinion about the law.

But since you brought it up yeah I think current affairs should honestly be discussed in schools. Big emphasis on honestly. That means allowing differing points of view. This law says teachers can't be compelled by policy to teach current events. It also says if they do wish to teach current events they must provide differing view points. That's it basically. So what is wrong with that and what does the law have to do with the title of this thread?

show deleted posts

patom Member	Fri Oct 15 11:39:03 perspective to the Holocaust. https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/texas-school-administrator-told-teachers-to-include-holocaust-books-with-opposing-views-1.5624252
Sam Adams Member	Fri Oct 15 12:41:33 I wonder if the hamas caucus of leftists agrees with this
murder Member	Fri Oct 15 12:58:21 Personally I think they should study the inefficiencies in the Nazi plan to get every Jew from the ghettos to the ash heap. Develop a set of best practices.
Forwyn Member	Fri Oct 15 13:18:01 Out-German the Germans? A tall task
kargen Member	Fri Oct 15 13:18:05 Nice sensational headline you have there patom! Doesn't really have anything much to do with the story though. Kind of like those headlines in the right column of facebook "The Real Reason Brady Left the Patriots" and it ends up being an ad for hemp oil. Going through some of her tweets it seems pretty clear she opposes the new law and was trying to come up with something outlandish to show how bad it is and it backfired on her. You get that vibe just from the article with this exchange. "How do you oppose the Holocaust?" one teacher could be heard asking. "Believe me," Peddy said in a longer recording obtained by NBC. "That's come up." Basically she is suggesting the law will be used to promote racism.
Dukhat Member	Fri Oct 15 13:29:58 Really it's about philosophy. If 6 million jews die in an gas chamber and nobody else is around to see or hear it, did it really happen?
patom Member	Fri Oct 15 13:30:58 The law may not have been written to target the Holocaust. More like another attempt by the Evangelicals to force 'creationism' into school curriculum.
patom Member	Fri Oct 15 13:33:40 I really don't think there are a ton of books out there documenting an alternative or rationalization of the Holocaust. Or the events of Pearl Harbor.
kargen Member	Fri Oct 15 13:38:40 The law is in response to critical race theory. It says theories on race must be accompanied by opposing theories. Norm Macdonald did a ventriloquism act on a radio show (Dennis Miller's show) and said one of his dummies was a holocaust denier. Whole bit is really funny. The end joke Norm says one of his Jewish friends suggests he should burn the dummy and Norm responds two wrongs doesn't make a right. You can hear the groans in the background. Anyway this is a left wing person trying to undermine the law. If she were a Republican she would already be fired.
murder Member	Fri Oct 15 17:09:45 "I really don't think there are a ton of books out there documenting an alternative or rationalization of the Holocaust. Or the events of Pearl Harbor." There's plenty of holocaust denial. None from reputable publishers, but plenty nonetheless.
Habebe Member	Fri Oct 15 18:22:22 PAtom, In all fairness pearl harbor was a rational act.A fatally dumb one, but still. FDR initiated acts of war against Japan.
Habebe Member	Fri Oct 15 18:28:05 What this seems like is an over reaching openness to discussion. Its in response to the left wanting everything to have only definitive side.Well not everything is blacl and white. If the downside is we hear some crazier points of view or your only allowed to have approved points of view, Id rather decide for myself.
patom Member	Sat Oct 16 04:31:19 Nah, it's just another end around to instill creationism in the school curriculum in Texas.
kargen Member	Sat Oct 16 04:52:43 This is the part that has the left raising hell. Also another part that says they can't teach one race is better than others or a person is racist based on their race. Not a mention of Creationism or religion in general in the entire bill. "no teacher shall be compelled by a policy of any state agency, school district, campus, open-enrollment charter school, or school administration to discuss current events or widely debated and currently controversial issues of public policy or social affairs; (2) teachers who choose to discuss current events or widely debated and currently controversial issues of public policy or social affairs shall, to the best of their ability, strive to explore such issues from diverse and contending perspectives without giving deference to any one perspective; (3) no school district or teacher shall require, make part of a course, or award course grading or credit including extra credit for, student work for, affiliation with, or service learning in association with any organization engaged in lobbying for legislation at the local, state or federal level, or in social or public policy advocacy; and (4) no school district or teacher shall require, make part of a course, or award course grading or credit including extra credit for, political activism, lobbying, or efforts to persuade members of the legislative or executive branch to take specific actions by direct communication at the local, state or federal level, or any practicum or like activity involving social or public policy advocacy."
patom Member	Sat Oct 16 06:26:23 Kargen, do you honestly think that current affairs should not be discussed in schools? At what age will students be encouraged to hear or discuss current events?
Habebe Member	Sat Oct 16 07:33:57 It just sets the standard to be open to multiple view points on a topic.Sounds reasonable.
patom Member	Sat Oct 16 08:10:10 So what topic? Slavery? 9/11? Segregation? Lynching? The last POTUS election? Jan, 6?
Habebe Member	Sat Oct 16 09:01:00 Patom, Obviously common sense discretion applies. Would you rather habe teachers foster open discussion or dogmatic answers? I see no problem with say a mock debate on all of those topics for example.
Habebe Member	Sat Oct 16 09:28:40 The down side of a free and open society is that you will deal with some crazies and crazy ideas. This isn't soley the domain of the right by a long shot.
kargen Member	Sat Oct 16 22:45:30 "Kargen, do you honestly think that current affairs should not be discussed in schools?" What in anything I typed made you think that? I copy and pasted the actual law. I offered no opinion about the law. But since you brought it up yeah I think current affairs should honestly be discussed in schools. Big emphasis on honestly. That means allowing differing points of view. This law says teachers can't be compelled by policy to teach current events. It also says if they do wish to teach current events they must provide differing view points. That's it basically. So what is wrong with that and what does the law have to do with the title of this thread?
	show deleted posts

Your Name:
Your Password:
Your Message: