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Utopia Talk / Politics / Good guy with a gun takes down fetus ...
murder
Member
Wed Nov 24 12:15:10
... with a gun? The fetus had it coming!


--------------------------------------------

Police: Orange City woman fatally shot after pointing gun at man

Patricio G. Balona - The Daytona Beach News-Journal

ORANGE CITY — An Orange City woman who was also a Volusia County librarian was fatally shot Saturday after she pointed a handgun at a man whose motorcycle she had earlier hit and the man returned fire.

The shooting occurred at about 5:14 p.m. at the woman's home in the 1000 block of E. Wisconsin Ave., said Orange City Police Lt. Jason Sampsell.

In a press release, the police identified the woman as Sara-Nicole Morales, 35. A press release from Volusia County identified Morales as an employee of the county's library system.

The motorcyclist was identified as Andrew Derr, 40, also of Orange City. He has not been charged, and police said he has been cooperating with the investigation from the beginning.

Morales drove to the Wisconsin Avenue home after she hit the motorcyclist on Volusia Avenue/US 17-92. The motorcycle was not badly damaged, and Derr followed her to the home, and at one point he told Morales to stop and that police had been called, said Orange City police Lt. Jason Sampsell.

A 9-1-1 recording of the incident indicates Morales pulled a gun on Derr on the street in front of her Orange City home.

“You are three men who followed me, you were screaming at me,” Morales can be heard shouting.

Before Morales could finish talking, eight gunshots can be heard in the recording.

“She tried to pull a gun on me,” a man can be heard saying.

A witness then told the 9-1-1 dispatcher, “The lady is shot. The dude on the bike shot her. He shot her in self-defense.”

Morales intentionally struck Derr's motorcycle, but because the motorcycle was moving, Derr was not injured, Sampsell said. Morales and Derr exchanged words just before she struck him, Sampsell added.

"We don't know why she hit him." Sampsell said. "She swerved into him and prior to the vehicle making impact he warned her to stay away, and he is pulling away and she gets to the side of him and comes right into him."

The motorcyclist and two other witnesses, who did not know each other, then followed Morales to her home in attempt to help identify her for police, Sampsell said.

Once at the home, Morales exchanged words with Derr and the witnesses and then went into her house and came back with a gun, the lieutenant said.

"Morales pointed a handgun at the witnesses and Derr," a press release states. "Derr having a valid Florida concealed weapons permit, drew his concealed handgun and fired multiple rounds, striking Morales."

Morales was hit several times. She was taken to Halifax Health Medical Center where she died of her injuries, Sampsell said.

Morales’ handgun was recovered on-scene, investigators said. Derr remained on scene, the press release states.

The Orange City Police Department and the State Attorney’s Office are continuing to investigate the shooting.

“The investigation into the shooting is on-going and no one has been charged at this point in time,” Sampsell said.

Anyone with information about the shooting is asked to contact Orange City Detective Kenneth Jones at 386-775-9999.

The county's press release stated that Morales’ death prompted the temporary closure of the DeLand and Pierson libraries to allow staff to grieve. Morales had been a library assistant since 2019.

"The County’s focus right now is with our employees and all those who’ve been impacted by Sara’s death," the press release stated. "The county’s critical incident stress management team (CISM) as well as grief counselors are being made available to provide emotional support to our employees. We are unable to comment on the details of the incident, as they are the subject of a law enforcement investigation."

“Our immediate concern is for the welfare of Sara’s family, her library colleagues, and all of our county employees,” said Volusia County Deputy Manager Suzanne Konchan in the press release. "We are all shaken up by the incident. As we grieve the loss of one of our own, we stand together in wholeheartedly supporting one another during this difficult time.”

On Monday, Morales' boyfriend, Wilber Perez, said his girlfriend was scared after being chased down by three men all the way to her home.

"She is not the kind to give trouble or just go about pulling a gun on people," Perez said. "She must have been really scared having her mother and her 11-year-old daughter at home."

Morales was five months pregnant and the couple were getting engaged soon, Perez said.

According to Perez, Morales' mother, Doreen Flaherty, saw her daughter with her hands in the air telling Derr and the others to leave when she was shot.

"She was shot dead in her own yard," Flaherty said in a text message. "She is gone at 36 years old. She was pregnant with her second child and she leaves her 11-year-old daughter and a loving fiance."

http://www...road-rage-incident/8718048002/



murder
Member
Wed Nov 24 12:15:50

Now sue the grieving husband and father for the damage the woman did to your bike! :o)

murder
Member
Wed Nov 24 12:19:34

grieving boyfriend* and father

tumbleweed
the wanderer
Wed Nov 24 12:20:19
if this guy gets away w/ it then White Marge could've been legally shot dead too

http://blo...ae4aa2/5ef9e2582cf18.image.jpg
murder
Member
Wed Nov 24 12:21:24

Now the questions are ...

Who was the aggressor?

Who had a right to self-defense?

Who was standing their ground?

And did the baby have a permit to carry a gun?

murder
Member
Wed Nov 24 12:22:13

White Marge should have been shot dead. Then or some other time.

Rugian
Member
Wed Nov 24 14:43:40
murder's weird Brown Pride kicking in at full strength here.

I don't know what exactly happened here, but by the sound of it Morales had it coming. Boo hoo.
murder
Member
Wed Nov 24 15:06:15

I don't know wtf you're talking about.

obaminated
Member
Wed Nov 24 15:54:31
It's pretty obvious who is at fault. Only murder seems to think it isn't a clear cut case.
Habebe
Member
Wed Nov 24 16:58:37
"The motorcyclist and two other witnesses, who did not know each other, then followed Morales to her home in attempt to help identify her for police, Sampsell said."


Wait, so the cops supposedly told him to follow her to her house without an officer there?

That doesn't sound right.

He should have waited down the street and called police.Confronting the woman at her house alone doesn't sound kosher.
Dukhat
Member
Wed Nov 24 17:23:09
Guns make it so that a moment of passion ends your life instead of becoming a bad hangover.

Sometimes it can save your life but very rarely compared to all the everyday incidents or moments of weaknesses that suddenly become deadly instead of quickly forgotten hangovers.
nhill
Member
Wed Nov 24 17:27:19
If you're an idiot, yeah. What's the downside here?
Dukhat
Member
Wed Nov 24 18:01:12
We've all been idiots at some point in our lives. Guns make it so that our mistakes become permanent.

That being said, I'm really only sad she hurt her baby and her family. She may have had a moment of weakness but she had plenty of time to think over her actions and still doubled down like a fucking moron.

Her poor daughter.
murder
Member
Wed Nov 24 19:11:55

"It's pretty obvious who is at fault. Only murder seems to think it isn't a clear cut case."

It's pretty obvious that I don't know what the fuck you're talking about.

murder
Member
Wed Nov 24 19:16:27

"Wait, so the cops supposedly told him to follow her to her house without an officer there?"

Not likely. They probably followed on their own initiative. That's not usual.

murder
Member
Wed Nov 24 19:22:29

"He should have waited down the street and called police.Confronting the woman at her house alone doesn't sound kosher."

People with guns feel emboldened. Him and her ... and cops.

This was just stupid run amok.

Personally I think he just used her pulling a gun as an excuse to kill her. But she set it up so he could get away with it.

Habebe
Member
Wed Nov 24 19:24:29
No it's not.After an incident occurred but the parties were separated situation diffused going to her home to confront her seems like escalating.

Driving past and parking down the street until an officer came out would have been the most Id say a reasonable person in this situation should have done.

I don't know or care that much to debate the legal details. Im kind of tired of doing that lately.
murder
Member
Wed Nov 24 19:32:22

Most people would have just snapped the cars license plate. But where's the drama in that?

Habebe
Member
Wed Nov 24 20:17:51
Yeah because hordes of people broke down a gate to march over her private property during the summer of burning.

The husband is running for office now.
Habebe
Member
Wed Nov 24 20:20:12
The last post was about marge.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Wed Nov 24 20:56:27
the gate was open and they walked through (with video proof), and was just a gate to the neighborhood not White Marge’s gate... they were never headed to her home

OP story has a road rage hit-and-run by woman, but angry biker followed her home to confront... those are the added elements
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Wed Nov 24 20:58:58
her words at time of shooting don’t seem like about-to-shoot words to me... for whatever that matters
Forwyn
Member
Wed Nov 24 21:03:10
Hit and run is a felony. Dude was fully entitled to Ahmaud her.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Wed Nov 24 22:20:28
i'll need a diagram of the crime scene & record of police calls by all parties & whether shooter ever was on her property & whether the witnesses are fellow motorcyclists to properly judge these people :p


we know there was hostility between the parties before the hit-and-run ever happened... i can see why a pregnant woman (or anyone) wouldn't want to pull over to chat w/ an angry biker... i can also see why she might be afraid when 3 men follow her home (w/ a young daughter inside) & the odds she was about to shoot 3 people seems unlikely


but perhaps the shooter can intern w/ Kyle as another heroic killer of those who weren't going to kill anyone
Habebe
Member
Wed Nov 24 22:44:06
TW, Im not arguing legalities, but for me going to someones house or standing right in front of it both seem to be escalating it.
Sam Adams
Member
Thu Nov 25 00:45:16
Is it reasonable to follow a hit and run felon to their home? Yes? Then the shooting is legal.
Paramount
Member
Thu Nov 25 03:06:39
Buy more guns.
murder
Member
Thu Nov 25 09:45:31

"Is it reasonable to follow a hit and run felon to their home? Yes?"

It's not illegal. But honestly I'm not buying his bullshit story. And I want to know more about the witness(es).


"Then the shooting is legal."

Probably. She made the mistake of using a gun to warn or menace. Rookie mistake. Unfortunately for her, rookies only get one of those.

Now baby daddy needs to man up and do what needs doing.

murder
Member
Thu Nov 25 10:00:20

"Buy more guns."

Honestly gun stores should give the cheap ones away to anyone who commits to buying a certain amount of ammo every month for a couple of years.

They could make a killing just selling ammo. ;o)

Habebe
Member
Thu Nov 25 10:32:07
Yeah Im not really buying the "I just wanted a better description" story either.

I think Its far more likely he had some road rage since he was just hit and run and he went to confrint her.

Doesnt that sound more likely?

If a guy sucker punched younin a bar and takes off, do you follow him to his house? Maybe. But its to beat his ass not to get a better description to give to the police.

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