Utopia Talk - Politics - some more self defense? Lubbock, TX

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Utopia Talk / Politics / some more self defense? Lubbock, TX

tumbleweed
the wanderer Fri Nov 26 13:04:17
video of it at the top (the audio seems delayed a couple secs... listen for gunshot when aiming at feet, then 2 more into guy):

http://www...rruth-lubbock-home/8754796002/

summary: guy arguing w/ ex-wife on front yard, armed guy comes out of home... some testosterone chest wrestling, then shooting

guns are always helping

murder
Member Fri Nov 26 13:17:25

I read the story but can't keep track of the players.

Rugian
Member Fri Nov 26 13:55:56
"guns are always helping"

We know, Mr. "I'm just a regular American who hates Donald Trump, I'm not a rabid leftist who despises conservativism, wants to ban guns and raise taxes, claims CRT isn't real, pushes transgender extremism, supports the censorship of anyone who has a disagreeable opinion, and desires a wholesale expansion of the federal government."

tumbleweed
the wanderer Fri Nov 26 14:03:58
i'm quite certain i didn't advocate some of that^... and i assume you're still trying to pretend my hatred of Trump is just over his alleged politics? as if it's not extremely abundantly clear otherwise from every complaint i make of him which are never about his alleged politics...

also in what sense is his party on the same page as him (their leader that they can't dump as he has a strangle hold on the cult voter base)? what shared message are they putting out?

---------

"I read the story but can't keep track of the players."

i mostly just watched video & didn't read story :p

this is a youtube link of it, video starts later though (doesn't show him arguing w/ wife)
http://youtu.be/RYswDs5gNfs?t=39

Rugian
Member Fri Nov 26 14:13:23
I'm quite certain you've advocated every single last one of those things.

"and i assume you're still trying to pretend my hatred of Trump is just over his alleged politics?"

It is.

"as if it's not extremely abundantly clear otherwise from every complaint i make of him which are never about his alleged politics"

Your selective complaining, in which you condemn every move that Trump makes as Hitlerian, while excusing similar moves made by politicians on the far left (see your excusing of Biden's chronic lying by claiming "he's lying the correct way).

Not to mention that your hatred for conservative politicians has clearly survived Trump, and you attack people who don't even have anything to do with him...so yeah.

"also in what sense is his party on the same page as him (their leader that they can't dump as he has a strangle hold on the cult voter base)?"

I have explained this to you multiple times, the Democratic Party cult is an ideological one. It doesn't revolve around any single person, but around an ethos that includes a deep antipathy for America and its values.

Say what you will about Trump's personality, but at the end of the day we had an entirely conventional Republican administration from 2017 and 2021. It certainly doesn't compete with the radicalism that's now on display by the party opoosite.

tumbleweed
the wanderer Fri Nov 26 14:23:05
"I'm quite certain you've advocated every single last one of those things"

nope

---------------

"It is."

yep, no possible way to have a problem w/ Trump except over his alleged political views...

you're delusional

Rugian
Member Fri Nov 26 14:33:11
So you wouldn't mind seeing Ron DeSantis as President in 2025.

Prefer it, actually, if the only alternative was a Democrat pushing for an AOC-style administration.

Right?

murder
Member Fri Nov 26 14:39:43

It's funny that you think that a governor who has killed tens of thousands of his states residents, and who is still fighting to kill tens of thousands more, is the less offensive alternative.

Rugian
Member Fri Nov 26 14:48:53
Florida is currently one of the lowest states in terms of new case counts.

http://cov...ml#cases_casesper100klast7days

Imagine that. It's almost like government restrictions have little to no effect on a disease that spreads as easily as Covid-19 does.

DeSantis isn't responsible for shit, you hack.

tumbleweed
the wanderer Fri Nov 26 14:53:21
if i'm evaluating DeSantis vs AOC it would be on politics

w/ Trump no need to go to that level of analysis... he's -ridiculously- unfit as a person

now people start specifying whether this looks like self defense... dead guy does grab at the gun after guy shoots at his feet... so is that insta-kill permission?

Rugian
Member Fri Nov 26 14:58:08
tumbleweed
the wanderer Fri Nov 26 14:53:21
if i'm evaluating DeSantis vs AOC it would be on politics

So who's better? The standard conventional conservative Republican, or the far left socialist extremist?

obaminated
Member Fri Nov 26 15:04:07
Ex husband rightly got shot. He confronted his ex wife at her boyfriends house. Wouldn't leave. Boyfriend comes out with a shotgun and ex husband doesn't seem to get the hint so they bump chest, boyfriend tries to slide away from ex husband who uses the tried and true strategy of grabbing the gun only to lose his grip on said gun, as boyfriend backs away and raises the gun ex husband charges.

Gun solved the problem. Imagine if the boyfriend wasn't home when ex husband came in a clearly belligerent attitude with violent intent.

kargen
Member Fri Nov 26 15:11:10
Self defense might not fly with the Texas law. Not nearly as clear cut case of self defense as Rittenhouse.

"SELF-DEFENSE. (a) Except as provided in Subsection (b), a person is justified in using force against another when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to protect the actor against the other's use or attempted use of unlawful force. The actor's belief that the force was immediately necessary as described by this subsection is presumed to be reasonable if the actor:

(1) knew or had reason to believe that the person against whom the force was used:

(A) unlawfully and with force entered, or was attempting to enter unlawfully and with force, the actor's occupied habitation, vehicle, or place of business or employment;

(B) unlawfully and with force removed, or was attempting to remove unlawfully and with force, the actor from the actor's habitation, vehicle, or place of business or employment; or

(C) was committing or attempting to commit aggravated kidnapping, murder, sexual assault, aggravated sexual assault, robbery, or aggravated robbery;

(2) did not provoke the person against whom the force was used; and

(3) was not otherwise engaged in criminal activity, other than a Class C misdemeanor that is a violation of a law or ordinance regulating traffic at the time the force was used.

(b) The use of force against another is not justified:

(1) in response to verbal provocation alone;

(2) to resist an arrest or search that the actor knows is being made by a peace officer, or by a person acting in a peace officer's presence and at his direction, even though the arrest or search is unlawful, unless the resistance is justified under Subsection (c);

(3) if the actor consented to the exact force used or attempted by the other;

(4) if the actor provoked the other's use or attempted use of unlawful force, unless:

(A) the actor abandons the encounter, or clearly communicates to the other his intent to do so reasonably believing he cannot safely abandon the encounter; and

(B) the other nevertheless continues or attempts to use unlawful force against the actor;"

There wasn't an attempt to enter the house that we can see on the video. We don't know what happened before recording started though. The altercation up until the gun was brought out was verbal only from what we can see in the video. Firing near a persons feet would be considered provocation or at least in my opinion it would. He did then back away a couple of steps before firing but is that enough to fulfill the requirement of abandoning the encounter? We also do not see in the video what the guy shot was doing right as he is shot. Was he advancing on the guy with the gun? Even if he were could it be said because of the first shot fired he was just trying to defend himself?

The most pertinent part that I see is that the original confrontation was verbal only until the man with the gun fired a shot at the feet of the other. At that point self defense with deadly force wasn't a legal option. Seems obvious the gun provoked the other guy.

tumbleweed
the wanderer Fri Nov 26 15:25:47
"The standard conventional conservative Republican"

i know little about DeSantis other than he tries to emulate Trump which is a bad sign... i don't know what national political views he would bring

& all completely irrelevant to my massive hatred of Trump... Trump is not merely lying the same as every other politician, heaps of magnitude different in quantity & the reasoning behind it also important (pure mental illness vs promoting political views) politicians misleading to promote their politics is -always- going to happen. always. Trump misleads & lies just to promote himself (or because he can't be bothered to ever once learn information when just guessing/making it up is so much easier) & the lies range from tiny insignificant shit that a normal adult would be embarrassed to lie about to all the way to massively dangerous lies like he continues to make about our elections... he's a completely uninformed delusional mentally-ill fraud moron child leading a massive cult

tumbleweed
the wanderer Fri Nov 26 15:37:43
the video at start of OP article is more extensive, shows dead guy arguing w/ ex-wife before gunman ever comes out

it seems to have some similarity to Rittenhouse to me... dead guy walks up on shooter & makes actual contact w/ shooter (unlike 2 of Kyle's victims) & does grab gun barrel

although it's different state laws as noted

Rugian
Member Fri Nov 26 15:52:13
Noted, tw would vote for Ron DeSantis.

Forwyn
Member Fri Nov 26 16:21:04
Another guy dead for a PoS woman who flagrantly disobeys her court-ordered visitation

murder
Member Fri Nov 26 16:52:34

"Florida is currently one of the lowest states in terms of new case counts."

Thanks in part to businesses, school boards, and counties, ignoring his ban on mandates.

show deleted posts

tumbleweed the wanderer	Fri Nov 26 13:04:17 video of it at the top (the audio seems delayed a couple secs... listen for gunshot when aiming at feet, then 2 more into guy): http://www...rruth-lubbock-home/8754796002/ summary: guy arguing w/ ex-wife on front yard, armed guy comes out of home... some testosterone chest wrestling, then shooting guns are always helping
murder Member	Fri Nov 26 13:17:25 I read the story but can't keep track of the players.
Rugian Member	Fri Nov 26 13:55:56 "guns are always helping" We know, Mr. "I'm just a regular American who hates Donald Trump, I'm not a rabid leftist who despises conservativism, wants to ban guns and raise taxes, claims CRT isn't real, pushes transgender extremism, supports the censorship of anyone who has a disagreeable opinion, and desires a wholesale expansion of the federal government."
tumbleweed the wanderer	Fri Nov 26 14:03:58 i'm quite certain i didn't advocate some of that^... and i assume you're still trying to pretend my hatred of Trump is just over his alleged politics? as if it's not extremely abundantly clear otherwise from every complaint i make of him which are never about his alleged politics... also in what sense is his party on the same page as him (their leader that they can't dump as he has a strangle hold on the cult voter base)? what shared message are they putting out? --------- "I read the story but can't keep track of the players." i mostly just watched video & didn't read story :p this is a youtube link of it, video starts later though (doesn't show him arguing w/ wife) http://youtu.be/RYswDs5gNfs?t=39
Rugian Member	Fri Nov 26 14:13:23 I'm quite certain you've advocated every single last one of those things. "and i assume you're still trying to pretend my hatred of Trump is just over his alleged politics?" It is. "as if it's not extremely abundantly clear otherwise from every complaint i make of him which are never about his alleged politics" Your selective complaining, in which you condemn every move that Trump makes as Hitlerian, while excusing similar moves made by politicians on the far left (see your excusing of Biden's chronic lying by claiming "he's lying the correct way). Not to mention that your hatred for conservative politicians has clearly survived Trump, and you attack people who don't even have anything to do with him...so yeah. "also in what sense is his party on the same page as him (their leader that they can't dump as he has a strangle hold on the cult voter base)?" I have explained this to you multiple times, the Democratic Party cult is an ideological one. It doesn't revolve around any single person, but around an ethos that includes a deep antipathy for America and its values. Say what you will about Trump's personality, but at the end of the day we had an entirely conventional Republican administration from 2017 and 2021. It certainly doesn't compete with the radicalism that's now on display by the party opoosite.
tumbleweed the wanderer	Fri Nov 26 14:23:05 "I'm quite certain you've advocated every single last one of those things" nope --------------- "It is." yep, no possible way to have a problem w/ Trump except over his alleged political views... you're delusional
Rugian Member	Fri Nov 26 14:33:11 So you wouldn't mind seeing Ron DeSantis as President in 2025. Prefer it, actually, if the only alternative was a Democrat pushing for an AOC-style administration. Right?
murder Member	Fri Nov 26 14:39:43 It's funny that you think that a governor who has killed tens of thousands of his states residents, and who is still fighting to kill tens of thousands more, is the less offensive alternative.
Rugian Member	Fri Nov 26 14:48:53 Florida is currently one of the lowest states in terms of new case counts. http://cov...ml#cases_casesper100klast7days Imagine that. It's almost like government restrictions have little to no effect on a disease that spreads as easily as Covid-19 does. DeSantis isn't responsible for shit, you hack.
tumbleweed the wanderer	Fri Nov 26 14:53:21 if i'm evaluating DeSantis vs AOC it would be on politics w/ Trump no need to go to that level of analysis... he's -ridiculously- unfit as a person now people start specifying whether this looks like self defense... dead guy does grab at the gun after guy shoots at his feet... so is that insta-kill permission?
Rugian Member	Fri Nov 26 14:58:08 tumbleweed the wanderer Fri Nov 26 14:53:21 if i'm evaluating DeSantis vs AOC it would be on politics So who's better? The standard conventional conservative Republican, or the far left socialist extremist?
obaminated Member	Fri Nov 26 15:04:07 Ex husband rightly got shot. He confronted his ex wife at her boyfriends house. Wouldn't leave. Boyfriend comes out with a shotgun and ex husband doesn't seem to get the hint so they bump chest, boyfriend tries to slide away from ex husband who uses the tried and true strategy of grabbing the gun only to lose his grip on said gun, as boyfriend backs away and raises the gun ex husband charges. Gun solved the problem. Imagine if the boyfriend wasn't home when ex husband came in a clearly belligerent attitude with violent intent.
kargen Member	Fri Nov 26 15:11:10 Self defense might not fly with the Texas law. Not nearly as clear cut case of self defense as Rittenhouse. "SELF-DEFENSE. (a) Except as provided in Subsection (b), a person is justified in using force against another when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to protect the actor against the other's use or attempted use of unlawful force. The actor's belief that the force was immediately necessary as described by this subsection is presumed to be reasonable if the actor: (1) knew or had reason to believe that the person against whom the force was used: (A) unlawfully and with force entered, or was attempting to enter unlawfully and with force, the actor's occupied habitation, vehicle, or place of business or employment; (B) unlawfully and with force removed, or was attempting to remove unlawfully and with force, the actor from the actor's habitation, vehicle, or place of business or employment; or (C) was committing or attempting to commit aggravated kidnapping, murder, sexual assault, aggravated sexual assault, robbery, or aggravated robbery; (2) did not provoke the person against whom the force was used; and (3) was not otherwise engaged in criminal activity, other than a Class C misdemeanor that is a violation of a law or ordinance regulating traffic at the time the force was used. (b) The use of force against another is not justified: (1) in response to verbal provocation alone; (2) to resist an arrest or search that the actor knows is being made by a peace officer, or by a person acting in a peace officer's presence and at his direction, even though the arrest or search is unlawful, unless the resistance is justified under Subsection (c); (3) if the actor consented to the exact force used or attempted by the other; (4) if the actor provoked the other's use or attempted use of unlawful force, unless: (A) the actor abandons the encounter, or clearly communicates to the other his intent to do so reasonably believing he cannot safely abandon the encounter; and (B) the other nevertheless continues or attempts to use unlawful force against the actor;" There wasn't an attempt to enter the house that we can see on the video. We don't know what happened before recording started though. The altercation up until the gun was brought out was verbal only from what we can see in the video. Firing near a persons feet would be considered provocation or at least in my opinion it would. He did then back away a couple of steps before firing but is that enough to fulfill the requirement of abandoning the encounter? We also do not see in the video what the guy shot was doing right as he is shot. Was he advancing on the guy with the gun? Even if he were could it be said because of the first shot fired he was just trying to defend himself? The most pertinent part that I see is that the original confrontation was verbal only until the man with the gun fired a shot at the feet of the other. At that point self defense with deadly force wasn't a legal option. Seems obvious the gun provoked the other guy.
tumbleweed the wanderer	Fri Nov 26 15:25:47 "The standard conventional conservative Republican" i know little about DeSantis other than he tries to emulate Trump which is a bad sign... i don't know what national political views he would bring & all completely irrelevant to my massive hatred of Trump... Trump is not merely lying the same as every other politician, heaps of magnitude different in quantity & the reasoning behind it also important (pure mental illness vs promoting political views) politicians misleading to promote their politics is -always- going to happen. always. Trump misleads & lies just to promote himself (or because he can't be bothered to ever once learn information when just guessing/making it up is so much easier) & the lies range from tiny insignificant shit that a normal adult would be embarrassed to lie about to all the way to massively dangerous lies like he continues to make about our elections... he's a completely uninformed delusional mentally-ill fraud moron child leading a massive cult
tumbleweed the wanderer	Fri Nov 26 15:37:43 the video at start of OP article is more extensive, shows dead guy arguing w/ ex-wife before gunman ever comes out it seems to have some similarity to Rittenhouse to me... dead guy walks up on shooter & makes actual contact w/ shooter (unlike 2 of Kyle's victims) & does grab gun barrel although it's different state laws as noted
Rugian Member	Fri Nov 26 15:52:13 Noted, tw would vote for Ron DeSantis.
Forwyn Member	Fri Nov 26 16:21:04 Another guy dead for a PoS woman who flagrantly disobeys her court-ordered visitation
murder Member	Fri Nov 26 16:52:34 "Florida is currently one of the lowest states in terms of new case counts." Thanks in part to businesses, school boards, and counties, ignoring his ban on mandates.
	show deleted posts

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