Utopia Talk / Politics / school shooting Michigan

tumbleweed the wanderer	Tue Nov 30 14:15:15 OXFORD TOWNSHIP, Mich. (AP) — Authorities say a 15-year-old sophomore opened fire at his Michigan high school, killing three other students and wounding six other people, including a teacher. Oakland County Undersheriff Mike McCabe said at a news conference that he didn’t know what the assailant’s motives were for the attack Tuesday afternoon at Oxford High School in Oxford Township, a community of about 22,000 people roughly 30 miles (48 kilometers) north of Detroit. Authorities arrested the suspect at the school and recovered a handgun. They didn’t immediately release the names of the suspect or victims. http://apn...276c6f90ff36f5c32bce7698ce9128 things getting back to normal
murder Member	Tue Nov 30 15:36:04 We need to arm more teachers.
Pillz Member	Tue Nov 30 17:01:26 Lol
tumbleweed the wanderer	Tue Nov 30 17:27:22 some video of kids fleeing out a window when concerned shooter at the door http://twitter.com/Phil_Lewis_/status/1465802106867269634 (but probably -was- a cop at door is my guess)
Sam Adams Member	Tue Nov 30 19:13:04 If the perp is white, this will be in the news way longer than the waukesha terror attack.
Paramount Member	Wed Dec 01 09:15:27 The shooter is probably white because the police didn't shoot the shooter.
Forwyn Member	Wed Dec 01 09:22:21 But was he bullied and black? Maybe he can make bail, he has a party to get to.
Paramount Member	Wed Dec 01 09:32:53 There was another shooting in a mall the other day. None of the hundreds of shoppers had a gun and could shoot the shooter. Instead, the entire mall fled, people screamed in terror, cried and vomited: Black Friday shooting at Tacoma Mall left shoppers ‘running for their lives’ Frantic parents with children in their arms fled in every direction during a Black Friday shooting at a packed mall in Washington, witnesses said. People were screaming and “running for their lives,” Marsh said. “It was chaos,” Marsh said “I saw people throwing up, I guess they were so scared.” “We saw mothers crying, with their kids in their arms just running. Other people were just really confused” Marsh said. “It was terrifying. There were just hundreds of people flooding out of the mall. http://nyp...e-injured-in-washington-chaos/
Sam Adams Member	Wed Dec 01 10:58:36 "Black Friday shooting at Tacoma Mall left shoppers ‘running for their lives’ " Why you gotta be racist against fridays like that?
murder Member	Wed Dec 01 13:04:18 "If the perp is white, this will be in the news way longer than the waukesha terror attack." 3 deaths aren't even enough to lead the evening news on the same day anymore.
tumbleweed the wanderer	Wed Dec 01 13:32:58 criminal: 15-year-old Ethan Crumbley... sounding pretty white charged w/ a count of terrorism & 4 murders (a 4th has died) & other lesser stuff
kargen Member	Wed Dec 01 15:06:52 I didn't think we would learn his name this quick but they decided to charge him as an adult. Articles say he gained access to at least one locked room pretending to be the police and that he planned the attack days before. He used a handgun his dad purchased on Black Friday.
murder Member	Wed Dec 01 16:40:52 "He used a handgun his dad purchased on Black Friday." I hope he got a GREAT deal. The country is swimming in fucking guns, and they are having sales on Black Friday. >:o\
kargen Member	Wed Dec 01 17:07:26 " The National Shooting Sports Foundation® (NSSF®), the firearm industry trade association, revealed that the FBI’s National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) processed 687,788 background checks during the week leading up to and including Black Friday. FBI’s NICS recorded 187,585 on Black Friday alone, ranking it among the Top 10 Highest Days for NICS checks and a .50 percent increase from Black Friday 2020 (186,645)." This is what happens when you defund police, create no bail policies and ignore crime. 2020 set a record for sales of guns and 2021 will easily break that record. The left has affectively killed any gun rights restriction legislation because they allowed riots to happen and wouldn't let police do their jobs. That said this kid was set on causing harm and even without the gun would have found a way.
tumbleweed the wanderer	Wed Dec 01 17:48:28 "even without the gun would have found a way" yep, i'm sure all his murderous rage formed since last Friday (thus why he didn't use that other way yet)
kargen Member	Wed Dec 01 18:01:57 "Earlier, Sheriff Mike Bouchard told reporters that Crumbley’s parents were called to the school Tuesday “for behavior in the classroom that was concerning.” The teen remained in school, and the shooting occurred a few hours later." Something happened in school and he knew his parents had a conference. he planned his attack for after that conference. He still could have planned some form of attack after the conference even without access to a gun.
tumbleweed the wanderer	Wed Dec 01 18:32:41 yep, happens all the time
murder Member	Wed Dec 01 18:52:18 "This is what happens when you defund police ..." And the other 400 million were purchased because ... ?
murder Member	Wed Dec 01 19:26:00 I want to see this kid claim self-defense.
Sam Adams Member	Wed Dec 01 22:08:37 Execute the parents too. Sounds like they helped.
Habebe Member	Wed Dec 01 22:29:22 Murder, Clear cut case of self defense. He has to go to school or He will get in trouble, lets face it most public school bathrooms are just stomping grounds for roving gangs of trannies, pedophile rapists.Like forceable rape, like Norweigan style.
kargen Member	Wed Dec 01 23:12:41 tumbleweed if the guns were taken away other types of mass murder would happen more often. A gun is the most convenient. Take away the most convenient and they go to the next most convenient. Look at Australia after the Port Arthur massacre. They took away guns and mass murder by arson increased. People intent on causing harm will find a way.
murder Member	Wed Dec 01 23:13:16 Nah I just meant that he could claim that people kept trying to grab his gun. ;o)
Habebe Member	Wed Dec 01 23:42:21 Kargen, I think the argument is more that the convienience of the gun leads to higher death counts and more frequent incidents. That isn't an unreasonable assumption. I'm personally ok with that as I think its outweighed by the value of personal gun ownership rights.
jergul large member	Thu Dec 02 05:17:36 Gun ownership to compensate for decades of emasculation seems a sad and pathetic deal.
kargen Member	Thu Dec 02 12:48:31 I understand that argument but it could also be guns are used out of laziness or lack of imagination. There are ways to kill so many more people that would take only a little more effort. We don't know if the removal of guns means the nut decides to use a knife or a bomb. This kid could have pulled the fire alarm then drove a vehicle through the other students as they gathered outside the school. Usually they gather in an open area. The anti gun crowd mostly assumes they would just say fuck it and not attack at all. jergul we all wish you well on overcoming your personal struggles.
jergul large member	Thu Dec 02 13:06:11 Kargen I am alluding to the life portrayed in "F is for Family" and "The Simpsons" no longer being achievable for the average man. Guns are a poor substitute for a middle-class lifestyle, but I guess you have to take what you can get.
tumbleweed the wanderer	Thu Dec 02 13:24:20 "This kid could have pulled the fire alarm then drove a vehicle through the other students as they gathered outside the school" as no one has ever done... and would not be easy to actually get up dangerous levels of speed in whatever area people gathered they go w/ the top gun they can get... and yes, there are people who simply don't do it without access to a gun & the odds they go w/ something more deadly is a made-up guess that seems unlikely as it would happen already some might go w/ a knife... & have a LOT less success note i haven't actually advocated banning all guns... just sick of the -stupid- argument that they would do something just as deadly anyway
kargen Member	Thu Dec 02 14:28:18 "as no one has ever done...and would not be easy to actually get up dangerous levels of speed in whatever area people gathered" because they take the lazy/easy way and use a gun instead of going for more carnage. Usually the students gather in a parking lot, football field or some other open area. "& the odds they go w/ something more deadly is a made-up guess that seems unlikely as it would happen already" Like an increase of mass murder by arson in Australia? and I find the argument that people who have bad intentions would simply not act on those bad intentions were it not for the availability of a gun to be asinine. The thing that should be taken away from this story is if the parents had followed existing gun laws the kid wouldn't have had access to the gun. Gun owners are suppose to secure their guns so that minors can not gain access to them. With older children such as this case that law is often ignored.
tumbleweed the wanderer	Thu Dec 02 14:50:54 "gather in a parking lot, football field or some other open area" a parking lot w/ lots of parked cars... a field far from pavement... just give it up... NO ONE DOES IT... beyond being impractical, being able to pick targets & see the faces & terror they cause is probably important to them too "Like an increase of mass murder by arson in Australia?" show me your proof... not that arson went up, that casualties went up "I find the argument that people who have bad intentions would simply not act on those bad intentions were it not for the availability of a gun to be asinine" well, you are a fool... would everyone who has suicided by gun, just suicided by another means? (they would not have) easiness matters
tumbleweed the wanderer	Fri Dec 03 12:41:50 the parents both charged w/ 4 counts of involuntary manslaughter... some actions/timeline detailed out here: http://twitter.com/ABC/status/1466821595071193095 father bought gun w/ son on the prior Friday, w/ some indication it was a gift for son the day before shooting (i think, she appears to read wrong date), the son was caught searching phone for how to get ammo, and mother didn't care at all, told him to be more careful to not get caught day of shooting, teacher saw a disturbing drawing he did of someone being shot, and various concerning comments written, that's why parents called in & told he needed to be put in counseling w/in 48 hrs (& she blames them for not asking son where gun was or checking his backpack)
kargen Member	Fri Dec 03 13:56:11 "show me your proof... not that arson went up, that casualties went up" In some of the arson incidents every person in the building died. A gun isn't going to top that. Point still stands. People intent on doing bad things will find a way to do those bad things. Do you blame your keyboard when you misspell a word? "would everyone who has suicided by gun, just suicided by another means? (they would not have)" I see you have taken your mind reading skills beyond just reading the minds of prominent politicians. Good for you. Shows growth. There is no parallel universe we can access to test your asinine theory.
tumbleweed the wanderer	Fri Dec 03 14:01:04 yep, i'm amazing, no doubt about it it doesn't require any tests, it's completely obvious, but you do you ---- update on the parents: they have fled
Forwyn Member	Fri Dec 03 15:15:47 "update on the parents: they have fled" Hope they make it to Cabo
tumbleweed the wanderer	Fri Dec 03 15:22:52 lawyer now says they aren't trying to flee but just left town for safety & are returning (though they did miss a court appearance) it's possible that story true or possibly they've realized a bad move... or possibly still running...
Sam Adams Member	Fri Dec 03 15:49:38 "the parents both charged w/ 4 counts of involuntary manslaughter... some actions/timeline detailed out here" Thats worth about 20 years in jail if they didnt realize their kid was suicidal. If they realized he was crazy and still gave him a gun, they should be executed. Kid of course should be executed rapidly.
Forwyn Member	Fri Dec 03 16:31:00 "(though they did miss a court appearance)" Courts just out here giving six hour notices now?
murder Member	Fri Dec 03 20:21:14 Even ignoring the other stuff, what kind of fucked up parents leave town and leave their kid behind to deal with this on his own?
Forwyn Member	Fri Dec 03 21:35:54 Bro's in a cage for life, write the little shit off as dead and move on
murder Member	Fri Dec 03 21:44:38 Oh he's fucked good, and once he's in adult prison, he's going to be fucked non-stop. But your kid is your kid. Besides, it looks like father and son are going to spend a lot of quality time together ... fending off prison rape. ;o)
tumbleweed the wanderer	Fri Dec 03 22:16:04 the US Marshals offering $10,000 reward for the parents so i guess they aren't buying the 'not running' story and if the court doesn't buy it (once found), no bail for them... they get to sit in jail for 6 months to a year or more waiting for trial
tumbleweed the wanderer	Sat Dec 04 00:48:53 their vehicle supposedly found in Detroit: http://pbs...XIAAmOgJ?format=jpg&name=large seems they are not good at parking either... monsters
tumbleweed the wanderer	Sat Dec 04 01:03:46 there’s a border crossing in Detroit so they may have already fled to Ted Cruz’ homeland perhaps they aren’t even the kids parents & it’s one of them kidnapped babies situations... or maybe they’re meth dealers...
Forwyn Member	Sat Dec 04 01:27:03 Lulz. Police combing the streets in SWAT gear for America's most wanted, parents nabbed Thank God the day is saved.
tumbleweed the wanderer	Sat Dec 04 02:02:53 James and Jennifer Crumbley were found on the first floor of an industrial building on Bellevue Street, near where their vehicle was found overnight, Detroit Police spokesperson Rudy Harper told CNN. kinda anti-climactic... but doesn’t sound like behavior of people who were returning though
Forwyn Member	Sat Dec 04 02:11:10 Watched too many movies, thinking you can ditch your car in Detroit and hide out two blocks away in a random warehouse while you patch up your gunshot wounds.
tumbleweed the wanderer	Sat Dec 04 02:15:58 cops are holding a presser, cop described them as “hiding” no bail for you!
tumbleweed the wanderer	Sat Dec 04 13:07:24 well they still got bail... $500,000 each... which Tucker will probably pay for
Kaylana Moderator	Sat Dec 04 14:51:12 I really can't get my head around their plan to just abandon their 15-year old son to deal with the consequences of all of their bad decisions by himself. I understand this tracts with their bad choices to date, but still. Just "BYE SON" and gone? How cold do you have to be for that to even be an option as a parent? If I put myself in their shoes in this nightmare scenario, there are only two states of mind I could picture myself being in: 1. Either so numb to the horror of the part that I played in all of this that I have no fear of showing up to my own arraignment because what else do I have to lose, my child and whole world is shattered beyond comprehension; or 2. Curled up catatonic on the floor. The fact that they even had the presence of mind to look out for themselves makes their level of selfishness mind-boggling to me.
tumbleweed the wanderer	Sat Dec 04 16:23:57 that's why i'm going w/ them not being the real parents... or some other big crime going on :p oddly, DNA testing was read by judge as part of the punishment if they get convicted their lawyer is still claiming they planned to turn themselves in (but any lawyer would say that)... cops said the parents arrived at that warehouse while still daylight so they had plenty of time to return home (40 miles) or just turn themselves in anywhere
murder Member	Sat Dec 04 16:44:20 "I really can't get my head around their plan to just abandon their 15-year old son to deal with the consequences of all of their bad decisions by himself." Some people aren't capable of thinking of anyone's welfare but their own.
Forwyn Member	Sat Dec 04 19:02:07 The screeching from all circles about bad parenting is a little weird. We have virtually zero data points to make that call.
tumbleweed the wanderer	Sat Dec 04 21:57:19 i'd say there are some data points but here's Pirro's take: http://twitter.com/MollyJongFast/status/1467324606289784832 "liberal school personnel should have known Crumbley had a gun or at least had access to one (um, why?) but never bothered to ask" ... and his parents never bothered to note they just bought one for him "then they [the liberal school personnel] let him go right back to class" ... since the parents resisted taking him, which the liberal school personnel had wanted
Forwyn Member	Sat Dec 04 23:50:58 They bought a gun and took him to shoot it. He was under the impression it was his. He made a happy post about it. It was in an unsecured drawer. Mom didn't freak out about his ammo shopping. Any other points of interest?
tumbleweed the wanderer	Sun Dec 05 00:24:19 "He was under the impression it was his" so was the mother, her shooting range post: "Mom & son day testing out his new Xmas present" (<-- "his") i won't be surprised if it turns out he had complete control of the gun (no drawer in parents' room) while i don't see the ammo googling as a particularly big red flag, the mother shouldn't be supportive of him dicking off during class (& breaking the 'parents shouldn't be their kid's friend' notion) then you have the disturbing image w/ literal cry for help on it ("The thoughts won't stop. Help me."), and they "resist" the school's request that they take him home & don't mention his gun that they just bought him and then their apparent fleeing, abandoning the criminal they raised (plus they are Trump voters :p... although mother's letter to Trump may actually be of use understanding why various people voted for the piece of shit... i haven't found the whole thing anywhere, just different portions or i'd link it)
tumbleweed the wanderer	Sun Dec 05 13:26:28 some crazy analysis by (terrible) Saagar's (apparently terrible) replacement on Hill.TV: http://twitter.com/skepticalspice/status/1467055081300312068 i've never seen that young photo before (& suspect 'Milne News' isn't a top outlet... but gotta create a narrative)... & somehow she concludes using the young pic is an effort by media to create fear of white people (yet a young pic of Trayvon is to get sympathy...)
murder Member	Mon Dec 06 09:01:27 The parents were fleeing without their kid, so this should come as no surprise ... ---------------------------------- Crumbleys' Parenting Prompted Child Protective Services Complaint Years Before Shooting Jennifer and James Crumbley's parenting style raised alarms long before they allegedly enabled their 15-year-old son to carry out last week's shooting at Oxford High Shool, the Free Press reports. In 2014 and 2015, before Ethan Crumbley was 10, they often left him home alone in their Lake Orion townhouse while they hit the downtown bars about a half-mile away. A neighbor alerted Child Protective Services. **************** “When they were gone, he would come knock on our door,” (neighbor Kayla) LeMieux said of the boy. “They didn’t leave him with a phone.” The boy would ask LeMieux to call his parents, she said. LeMieux, who also worked as a restaurant server with Jennifer in 2012, considered her a friend and said they would often hang out at downtown spots together. But the relationship soured partly because she was concerned the boy was left home alone, she said. “It was really when I finally started to say more, because I was just like, even after calling CPS, they were still doing it and even me saying something to them, they were still like ‘Oh he is fine,’ ” LeMieux said. **************** LeMieux said she doesn't know what came of the CPS complaint. The state tells the paper it can't divulge because the agency's communications are private. http://www...omplaint_years_before_shooting
tumbleweed the wanderer	Mon Dec 06 12:14:36 so they were like Casey Anthony if she hadn't killed her child
tumbleweed the wanderer	Mon Dec 06 21:49:02 the Fox defense of the parents has begun... http://twitter.com/Acyn/status/1468060749683564545 ^Ingraham guest saying the school is in far better position than the parents to evaluate their child's psychological state (& her nodding along) i'm confident this is not their consistent position in other cases (plus the school did insist counseling w/in 48 hours & requested the parents take him that day... the parents declined, & didn't mention the gun they just bought him)
murder Member	Tue Dec 07 07:38:01 "^Ingraham guest saying the school is in far better position than the parents to evaluate their child's psychological state (& her nodding along)" Of course. It's unreasonable to expect parents to know their own child better than a series of semi-strangers who maybe see their kid for an hour a day 5 days a week and maybe only engage them in passing if at all. It makes perfect sense.
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