Utopia Talk / Politics / Crypto Gaming Company Gets $360 Million

nhill Member	Tue Jan 18 21:58:29 Blockchain Gaming Company Animoca Brands Raises $360 Million In Quest To Build ‘The Open Metaverse’ Probably nothing. Lol. http://www...st-to-build-the-open-metaverse
nhill Member	Tue Jan 18 22:00:10 Imagine thinking you're smarter than all people injecting almost half a billion dollars into a capital raise that will be directly spent in the crypto ecosystem. Lmao.
nhill Member	Tue Jan 18 22:02:45 http://tec...r-its-fantasy-sports-nft-game/ Just another casual half a billion dropped into crypto. Don't worry though. You are probably smarter than all these investors. Lol.
nhill Member	Tue Jan 18 22:11:54 > "B--b-but these are companies targeting NFTs..." Yeah punk, NFTs are the digital future. And guess what you have to use to purchase an NFT? That's right. Crypto. Mmm, I'm going to enjoy this next decade so much. What an awesome timeline we find ourselves in.
Habebe Member	Tue Jan 18 22:42:26 I seen Walmart is even getting in on NFTs and their own crypto.
nhill Member	Wed Jan 19 00:04:57 Yup, but I'm sure they are just YOLOing it and have done little to no research on the future of the cryptoverse.
nhill Member	Wed Jan 19 00:05:25 Thankfully we have experts like Seb and Dukhat to keep us out of these internet scams.
Nekran Member	Wed Jan 19 00:23:47 I don't lean heavily either way on the whole crypto debate (though people selling air as NFT's is stupid on the face of it in plenty of instances), but the claim that a couple 100 million invested dollars is proof of anything is ludicrous. Surely you remember Bernie Madoff?
Habebe Member	Wed Jan 19 01:07:41 Is selling an NFT any worse than a painting or a banana raped to a wall for thousands of dollars?
Habebe Member	Wed Jan 19 01:26:53 Taped*** Lol
nhill Member	Wed Jan 19 01:42:51 Nekran It's a very obvious and persistent trend spread across a multitude of sectors. Not even remotely comparable.
nhill Member	Wed Jan 19 01:47:34 Also it's around 200 billion dollars, not 100 million. But I'm sure they all know less than you, don't worry.
nhill Member	Wed Jan 19 01:51:29 > Is selling an NFT any worse than a painting or a banana taped to a wall for thousands of dollars? Art and the value of it is in the eye of the beholder. The people ragging on NFTs either a) simply don't understand how they work or b) are salty that they didn't understand it sooner and have doubled down on their hatred.
Habebe Member	Wed Jan 19 02:37:56 Or c lack the understanding of what makes art valuable. Ive had this discussion before, they always say "but they are charging money for nothing tangible" My argument is that what makes art valuable is almost never in its tangibile parts. Yes there are varying degrees with say jewelry, but even in that case a ring is worth more than a lump of gold. As is the mona Lisa worth more than canvas and home made paints. What makes the mona Lisa valuable isnt very tangible at all. If it's pure artistic appreciation, we can all google it and enjoy it. Ownership of art in most cases is either for novelty/status symbol or its an investment. The same applies to digital art bought through means of NFTs which the NFT isnt the art but documentation of ownership for the purposes of novelty, status or as an investment.
murder Member	Wed Jan 19 05:36:10 "Imagine thinking you're smarter than all people injecting almost half a billion dollars into a capital raise that will be directly spent in the crypto ecosystem." I know right? People keep insisting that Bernie Madoff was a crook, but that can't be true because rich people never get defrauded.
murder Member	Wed Jan 19 05:48:20 btw that should be ... "Crypto Gaming Company Gets 257 Million ADA" or "Crypto Gaming Company Gets 486 Million XRP" or "Crypto Gaming Company Gets 25 Million JWL" Or whatever random shit token is being pumped today.
Habebe Member	Wed Jan 19 06:11:24 Murder, I think your comparing Apple's to oranges. Madoff ran a scam investment. Some crypto coins are scams as well. But I wouldn't say that all investment funds are scams. Same with Enron, a scam company. But not all companies are scams.
murder Member	Wed Jan 19 07:21:18 All cryptocurrencies that are not backed by a government are scams. Every single one of them. They are all 100% pumping and FOMO. Unfortunately many "investors" have no scruples, and so they don't care that it's a scam. They just want to get in early enough so that they can be part of the group that profits off the late arriving suckers.
Habebe Member	Wed Jan 19 07:34:55 "All cryptocurrencies that are not backed by a government are scams." Why?
Habebe Member	Wed Jan 19 07:41:08 They both seem to be articles of faith. A dollar is worth a dollar because people accept it as that, not government decree. Your arguments seem reminiscent of the people who didn't trust fiat currency that wasn't backed by gold or silver.
murder Member	Wed Jan 19 07:43:29 It kind of explains itself. There are any number of reasons that affect the value of a currency, but the #1 reason why government backed currencies have real value is because they are backed by the government. That dollar in your pocket is in demand worldwide. But if tomorrow the rest of the world decided that it had no use for it, you could still pay your taxes with it, and the government could still require that it be accepted as payment for all debts inside its borders.
Seb Member	Wed Jan 19 07:44:23 nhill: "It's a very obvious and persistent trend spread across a multitude of sectors. Not even remotely comparable." Allow me to introduce you to mortgage backed collateralized debt obligations. Imagine thinking that a pile of shit MUST have a pony under it, simply because it is so big.
murder Member	Wed Jan 19 07:45:32 "Your arguments seem reminiscent of the people who didn't trust fiat currency that wasn't backed by gold or silver." Actually it's the other way around. That's why cryptocurrencies generally try to pretend that scarcity is a virtue. It's not. But it appeals to the gold bugs.
murder Member	Wed Jan 19 07:57:42 This cryptocurrency idiocy has gotten so out of control that it demands a UPcoin.
Habebe Member	Wed Jan 19 08:13:33 "but the #1 reason why government backed currencies have real value is because they are backed by the government." Have you seen the value of the dollar lately? " That dollar in your pocket is in demand worldwide. But if tomorrow the rest of the world decided that it had no use for it, you could still pay your taxes with it, and the government could still require that it be accepted as payment for all debts inside its borders." That doesn't last too long once your currency is worth shit. What hapens is two realities. What the government says and what actual prices are.
Seb Member	Wed Jan 19 08:40:41 Habebe: "A dollar is worth a dollar because people accept it as that, not government decree." Er no. Quite the opposite. It has a value largely because the US govt taxes x% of its GDP, and insists on those payments being made in dollars, which then pegs the number of dollars in circulation to US GDP based on supply and demand dynamics. The value of the dollar in terms of its purchasing power fluctuates based on various supply and demand factors.
nhill Member	Wed Jan 19 08:45:21 Lmao big brain murder and Seb explaining why their net worth is stagnant. Cute. They are so smart at the habit of life that they’re losing! Buy their course.
nhill Member	Wed Jan 19 08:53:01 Murder is so idiotic he keeps thinking crypto is all about being a currency. Most crypto project tokens are simply a way to gain the utility of the project and/or I invest in the team running the project. Like, idk, owning a stock? Except you can do more with it (like pay for rendering services) than simply look at a line item in your brokerage account. God damn these past few years have been great but the next decade is going to be even better! Especially since I can periodically load up on your salty tears periodically.
murder Member	Wed Jan 19 09:05:14 "Lmao big brain murder and Seb explaining why their net worth is stagnant. Cute. They are so smart at the habit of life that they’re losing! Buy their course." Cute is you panicking every time the scam gets exposed.
Habebe Member	Wed Jan 19 09:07:25 Seb, Are you familiar with publilius syrus?
Habebe Member	Wed Jan 19 09:14:04 Or look to Venezuelan price controls to see whether or not government decrees of value or what an individual is willing to offer in exchange for it is the real value.
nhill Member	Wed Jan 19 12:08:29 Ignore headlines of Web2 companies developing a Web3 strategy at your peril. Or just be dumb like Seb and murder and think you've outsmarted and out researched this list, a small sample: Intel IBM Microsoft Oracle Anheuser-Busch InBev Daimler Walmart Goldman Sachs But I'm sure they don't have big brains like Seb in any of these companies. Probably nothing.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Wed Jan 19 12:15:17 löl
TheChildren Member	Wed Jan 19 12:16:42 there was this nft for a book. some fuckers paid 20 mill coz they thought it means all LOTR books will be exclusive owned by them. or something like that. this shit is fuckin crazy
Seb Member	Wed Jan 19 13:05:15 Habebe: Not hugely. In any case you are conflating price and value. A dollar holds value because it is linked to the US economies production, consumption and trade in goods and services. It is the US govts ability to impose tax obligations that must be paid in dollars that creates that link. Venezuelan attempts to set price of three Bolivar is a different kettle of fish. Need to import stuff priced in dollars for to collapsing local production and easy ability to convert dollars into bolivars, plus rampant tax evasion, mean that the linkage between the Venezuelan economy (such as it is) and the Bolivar broke down.
Seb Member	Wed Jan 19 13:06:24 Nhill: Want a list of all the big firms that invested heavily into mortgage backed CDOs? The pile, so large, there must be a pony!
nhill Member	Wed Jan 19 13:19:44 Such a weak comparison. These companies aren't investing in crypto, they are building it you dumbass. Lol.
murder Member	Wed Jan 19 13:38:09 Venezuela has its own (petro) cryptocurrency, but they don't seem to know what the hell to do with it. They are clearly afraid to set it free. Which is a shame because in their case it could probably help stabilize their economy.
Seb Member	Wed Jan 19 14:30:57 nhill: You seem to have a very very strange definition of investment.
nhill Member	Wed Jan 19 14:35:25 You're comparing purchases of mortgage backed CDOs to building products. Not sure how I can help, as that's one of the most idiotic comparisons I've seen in a while.
nhill Member	Wed Jan 19 14:38:14 Watch Seb unpack and backtrack in 3... 2... 1...
Habebe Member	Wed Jan 19 16:57:31 Seb, I'm sure you know his famous quote. Something is worth whatever a purchaser will pay for it. The government can not set value. They influence it with policy, but everyone has influence over it. Government decree does not nor really can not set value. You offer the rationale behind how people/governments often figure out how they determine value. That isnt the same. The dollar is only worth what it is because people beleive it is worth that. I think you slipped up and posted in haste, not that big of a deal.
murder Member	Wed Jan 19 17:22:22 "Something is worth whatever a purchaser will pay for it." By that line of thinking scamming should be perfectly legal. "The dollar is only worth what it is because people beleive it is worth that." If you owe a dollar in taxes, a dollar will always settle that debt. Always. It doesn't matter what anyone thinks a dollar is really worth.
Habebe Member	Wed Jan 19 19:05:27 Yes and if its listed as you owe one small rock for taxes it will settle that debt too.The government sets the taxes and what they will benpaid in. But history has shown us time and time again that a currency's value is in what someone is willing to offer for it. I didn't say scamming should be legal. But its an indisputable fact that something is worth whatever someone is willing to pay for it.
Habebe Member	Wed Jan 19 19:56:38 http://new...nuary-18-2022-2061070/amp-page I think there is going to be a lot of law cases the courts will not be equipped to handle because of said technology. This group thought they bought the copy right to dune and was planning to sell NFTs and split it. They spent 3 million on a 40k book.
Seb Member	Thu Jan 20 04:58:43 nhill: "You're comparing purchases of mortgage backed CDOs to building products." CDO's are highly structured. You think each product wasn't designed and built by investment banks? They just spring into existence naturally? You think that spending resources in building something isn't investment? You seem to be focusing on some very tiny distinctions - I also had a look at some of your examples and they appear to not actually be decentralised blockchains, but just a centralised system. Yay for buzzwords for marketing processes.
Seb Member	Thu Jan 20 05:00:09 Here is the point: No amount of investment would prove the value of the investment. People lose money investing in building things that don't work, and many will happily build things that they know will not work provided someone else is willing to buy it. Imagine being so ignorant of the history of... everything... not to know that.
Seb Member	Thu Jan 20 05:02:06 I mean, you listed Goldman Sachs - one of the main developers of CDO products. They went around buying mortgage books, developing the portfolio, and then flogging them on. And you tell us "look, Goldman Sachs is developing blockchain stuff - so it must be great".
murder Member	Thu Jan 20 05:42:25 "I didn't say scamming should be legal. But its an indisputable fact that something is worth whatever someone is willing to pay for it." No it's not an indisputable fact. Every dumbass that pays double just to have a phone with an Apple logo on it is overpaying. What they pay is the selling price, not it's value.
murder Member	Thu Jan 20 05:44:41 "Here is the point: No amount of investment would prove the value of the investment. People lose money investing in building things that don't work, and many will happily build things that they know will not work provided someone else is willing to buy it." I wish there was a recent Theranos example that could be used to illustrate that.
Seb Member	Thu Jan 20 05:57:56 murder: I feel outright fraud may be unreasonable example. I am thinking more of companies like Amazon and Oracle creating "private blockchain-as-a-service" offerings. It's relatively cost free for them, there is a market of people that want that, and they don't really need to care too much about whether it pans out. Particularly with so many scammy or merely shonkey business models that are happy to outsource the tech part. If there is a market for Tulips, Farmers spending money on ploughing up fields to sell Tulip's isn't evidence that Tulip's are correctly valued. The famer may well think that everyone is mad.
LazyCommunist Member	Thu Jan 20 09:47:23 http://twitter.com/nntaleb/status/1483087946504933376 Nassim Nicholas Taleb@nntaleb View BTC is as a contagious disease. It will spread, spread & its price will rally until saturation, that is ~every sucker stupid enough to buy the story is invested. When all suckers are in, the prevailing belief will make it an "obvious" investment. That's maximal fragility. 3:44 PM · Jan 17, 2022 2) And no, BTC is not competing against "fiat". It is competing against the thousands of other sucker products that are born every year. Note: Fragility also comes when free money stops & they raise rates so BTC could prove to be a product of deflation, not inflation. ---------- Nassim Nicholas Taleb is a Lebanese-American essayist, mathematical statistician, former option trader, risk analyst, and aphorist[1] whose work concerns problems of randomness, probability, and uncertainty. The Sunday Times called his 2007 book The Black Swan one of the 12 most influential books since World War II.
nhill Member	Thu Jan 20 16:06:38 "nhill Member Wed Jan 19 14:38:14 Watch Seb unpack and backtrack in 3... 2... 1..." Damn, called this one to a T. Lmao. Sometimes I wonder if Seb is parodying himself.
Seb Member	Thu Jan 20 16:30:37 Nhill is so unable to defend his idiotic claim that "building" isn't a form of investment and failure to understand that people built CDOs and markets for CDOs that he's actually just pretending a refutation of his dumbarse post is a walk back.
nhill Member	Thu Jan 20 16:36:48 Yes, Seb, adding CDOs to your balance sheet is the same thing as creating thousands of working and useful products, ranging from technology provisioning, financial products, art, and entertainment, and much more. Yes, that's a reasonable position to take.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Thu Jan 20 18:03:19 I will just leave this here. http://twitter.com/JustinBarlow/status/1483870038952378370 In 2021, VISA moved $10.4 trillion in payments volume and Ethereum moved $11.6 trillion. According to @sophon_xyz Solana is casually settling $1-$3 trillion dollars worth of assets PER DAY. Probably nothing though right anon?
Forwyn Member	Thu Jan 20 18:09:47 Lol @ murder's infatuation with gubmint fiat scams
nhill Member	Thu Jan 20 18:29:28 > Solana is casually settling $1-$3 trillion dollars worth of assets PER DAY. Probably nothing. Lol.
nhill Member	Thu Jan 20 18:32:50 Didn't you know, Forwyn? Murder gets a hard on out of being scammed by big government and the old boys club known as the Federal Reserve. He's a wage cuck and the inspiration for this: http://i.imgur.com/F1RSOQE.jpg
Seb Member	Fri Jan 21 02:55:47 Nhill: Oh dear. You don't understand the difference between buying a CDO and making one.
Seb Member	Fri Jan 21 03:03:47 Nim/Nhill: You... you do both know how to read a graph right? That's a stacked bar chart, and your source is quoting the whole stack. Or do you just regurgitate everything you read that's positive without interrogation? Volume of transactions are what matters (particularity of you have lots of wash trades going on inflating dollar figures).
nhill Member	Fri Jan 21 03:07:48 Yes, I'm aware they aren't directly comparable. Congrats detective!
nhill Member	Fri Jan 21 03:10:43 > buying a CDO and making one. Not sure why you keep harping on that. My point is about the variety, not the structure.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Fri Jan 21 03:49:14 "Volume of transactions are what matters (particularity of you have lots of wash trades going on inflating dollar figures)." Why would that be what matters, if the question is, can it handle what VISA does? System wise, a trade is a trade, a transaction is a transaction, whether it is market manipulation or not. I thought it was obvious what the point was, given that we have talked about scalability vs traditional payment systems in the past. It was already clear on paper that block chains a handful of year into the development had better specs than systems that have been around for decades.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Fri Jan 21 04:02:45 Oh ffs, for whatever reason I am not paying attention to the dollar sign. I kept reading that number of transactions... Was not paying attention. Trillions of transactions per day seem unrealistic.
murder Member	Fri Jan 21 05:02:47 "In 2021, VISA moved $10.4 trillion in payments volume and Ethereum moved $11.6 trillion." VISA - people buying real shit they want and need Ether - people using fake imaginary money to buy other fake imaginary money/tokens.
Seb Member	Fri Jan 21 05:51:25 Nhill/Nim: So, are you standing by that 1-3USD trillion a day figure? Nhill: No it wasn't. Your original argument was that "look at all the smart money going into blockchain, you'd be mad to bet against that". Then it was "ah, but buying CDOs is investing, and putting money into building blockhain infrastructure and blockchain dependent services isn't investment" Charitably, what you probably meant to say is "buying CDOs is speculating on an asset to invest, but what is key here is this money is going into making the infrastructure itself" Yet the there are analogues here too (and by point all along) - some of the same authorities you are citing here sunk billions in inventing, producing and creating markets for these products - and made huge profits of them - that were ultimately way over valued. Looking at either investment in creating the market and products, or what people pay for them, don't provide evidence of value.
Seb Member	Fri Jan 21 05:57:38 Nim: No worries, we all make mistakes. Also it's actually only 550bn USD when you look at the chart ;-).
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Fri Jan 21 06:36:24 Yea trillions seemed a bit too much even as I read it, but with all the games and NFTs and other non financial possibilities I thought maybe. Transactions start to have a different meaning on blockchain. But yes it is USD volume and it does include cancelled transaction and what not. A better indication of real world (the on paper figure for Solana is 65k/second) transaction rate and scalability - Solana broke down from a DDos peaking at 400k transactions per second. So the stable figure is somewhere between, which is far less than trillions per day, but more than enough. Whether we are talking about USD value of assets or 100's of thousands of transactions per second, the figures should be viewed in the context that Solana launched in 2019. I think we can put the scalability question to rest, it was never on the list of possible things that can make crypto fail as a financial project.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Fri Jan 21 06:40:45 I think the biggest hurdle at the moment is the lack of regulation, both in terms of consumer protection, but also the entry of the real institutional money.
Seb Member	Fri Jan 21 06:49:40 Well, except that by moving to proof of stake you end up centralising power to the wealthy directly - relying purely on technology to prevent manipulation - and on that level it as deficiencies against PoW based consensus mechanisms. What's the actual time for a single transaction though that also matters.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Fri Jan 21 08:12:20 There are trade offs as with anything with these things that live in a gradient with block chain and not binary. Unlike the current totally centralized financial monopolies and oligopolies. Of course new consensus mechanism develop as time goes and they compliment each other, in layers and cross chain. The decentralization factor is thus bigger than the consensus mechanism specific to one chain.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Fri Jan 21 08:21:18 "What's the actual time for a single transaction though that also matters." A few seconds on Solana, with other chains when they have been congested it has taken upwards of 20-30 seconds. Bridging can take a minute, but that depends on the amount, it could take hours in the worst case. Compared to the 1-3 bank days (i.e not weekends and holidays and has to be done during working hours :P) it takes for payments to settle with traditional banks. The reality as that you don't send bank payments if you want the money to arrive quickly, we all have accepted that it takes a few days. So the banks, at least here in Sweden, have built payment layers now on top of it. One is called Swish here and uses your cell phone number to connect to your bank account. But it is quite an annoying app, works ok with smaller sums of money.
nhill Member	Fri Jan 21 08:47:16 > buying CDOs is speculating on an asset to invest, but what is key here is this money is going into making the infrastructure itself" That was obvious from the get go, but you had to unpack, backtrack, and be your usual pedantic self.
nhill Member	Fri Jan 21 08:51:41 > Your original argument was that "look at all the smart money going into blockchain, you'd be mad to bet against that". No. My original argument? There was none. I simply think it's hilarious that people of your ilk continue to think they are smarter than an entire thriving ecosystem that includes, but is not limited to, the list of companies above. I will continue to enjoy this spectacle you make of yourself, regardless of how many convoluted and pointless CDO and tulip analogies you pull outta your ass.
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