Utopia Talk / Politics / shit about Shit & his shit associates#10

tumbleweed the wanderer	Wed Jan 19 00:12:44 "But Biden said he had a plan to end the pandemic" pandemic ended ~May 2020 according to former guy
tumbleweed the wanderer	Wed Jan 19 00:13:06 "DeSantis threw a surprise wrench into the state's [Florida] redistricting process late Sunday night when his office submitted for consideration a new congressional map that heavily favors his party. The highly partisan offering pins Democratic-leaning seats to three urban areas -- Tampa, Orlando and Miami -- and gives Republicans the advantage in at least 18 of the 28 districts in the state and as many as 20." http://www...istricting-desantis/index.html 18-20 R's 8-10 D's yep, totally reflecting the purple state there
Habebe Member	Wed Jan 19 00:37:02 So you agree Trump and Biden are both liars. I'll stick with the more entertaining of the two.
tumbleweed the wanderer	Wed Jan 19 01:01:36 nothing remotely similar when Biden said he had a plan, he almost certainly had put thought into it & had a plan when Trump said he has any plan, no reason to think he'd put a second of thought into it (like his secret plan to defeat ISIS that he couldn't specify at all ever... or how he told people in coal country he'd bring back coal, do you think he had any actual plans? is he even capable of thinking?)
Habebe Member	Wed Jan 19 01:04:58 Oh, I he is just an honest failure.Thats believable.
murder Member	Wed Jan 19 05:21:43 "yep, totally reflecting the purple state there" Florida is NOT a purple state. That is a myth. Florida leans pretty heavily Republican.
murder Member	Wed Jan 19 05:23:34 More interesting is DeSantis' proposal to create an "election police" to monitor voting throughout the state ... you know, like the good old days.
murder Member	Wed Jan 19 05:28:06 "no matter how bad it is, at least that fucking piece of shit fraud traitor criminal isn't in the white house" Maybe, but Biden is weak as fuck. He is literally watching Republicans dismantle women's rights, voting rights, civil rights, and not doing a single thing to stop them. Kind of like Obama watching Russia interfere in our election and not doing a fucking thing to stop it. This nation is on the fast track back to the 1800s because the Democratic Party is run by spineless twats.
murder Member	Wed Jan 19 05:31:08 Basically the current political environment can be summed up as Republicans wiping out their junk and asserting "Our's is bigger!" and telling Democrats to bend over, and Democrats saying "I hope they use lube." There is absolutely no push back.
Habebe Member	Wed Jan 19 07:37:43 I prefer Obama to Biden.Seriously not even a question.
murder Member	Wed Jan 19 07:59:04 Well duh! At least Obama wasn't creeping on senility.
tumbleweed the wanderer	Wed Jan 19 11:47:38 FL may lean red, but it's not 67-33... and i'm guessing the map drawn extremely deliberately to end up that way also, i'm not here to say Biden is great, just to be very pleased Trump gone (for the time being... he should be hated by all & probably hanging from a noose or minimally in prison, rather than still a hero & contender for 2024)
murder Member	Wed Jan 19 13:06:43 No, but it is 60%-65% GOP ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida_Legislature It's closer when it comes to Governor and President for some reason, but the lower the office the more it seems to tilt right.
murder Member	Wed Jan 19 13:08:11 "also, i'm not here to say Biden is great, just to be very pleased Trump gone (for the time being... he should be hated by all & probably hanging from a noose or minimally in prison, rather than still a hero & contender for 2024)" No arguments there. I'm still surprised that he made it all the way through the end of his term without some patriot setting his pea brain free.
tumbleweed the wanderer	Wed Jan 19 13:17:53 "No, but it is 60%-65% GOP" the 67-33 DeSantis map is for the US Congress and R's have unwarranted control of many state legislatures... the governor & president races more accurately reflect the state, not less
murder Member	Wed Jan 19 13:44:10 Florida's congressional delegation is 59% GOP for the House and 100% for the Senate. http://en....ional_delegations_from_Florida
murder Member	Wed Jan 19 13:52:10 "... the governor & president races more accurately reflect the state, not less" Our last 4 governors have been Republican. Senators are red and are trending that way. If you want to know about a state, just look to see who is elected. How liberal are the Democrats that get elected? How conservative are the Republicans that get elected? That will tell you everything you need to know. Manchin didn't get elected because West Virginia is a purple state. He got elected because he is essentially a Republican.
tumbleweed the wanderer	Wed Jan 19 14:19:56 "Florida's congressional delegation is 59% GOP" yes, currently: 16 Republicans, 11 Dems which is already fucked up & DeSantis would have it be way more lopsided 2012 Pres race: 50.01% (D) 49.13% (R) 2014 Gov race: 48.1% (R) to 47.1% (D) 2016 Pres race 49.02% (fraud) 47.82% (D) 2018 Gov race: 49.6% (R) to 49.2% (D) 2020 Pres race: 51.22% (fraud) 47.86% (D) nothing close to 67:33 when whole state voting
murder Member	Wed Jan 19 14:43:37 Again, you have to look at the candidates. I know that Republicans like to call every Democrat a socialist, but Biden, Hillary, Obama, Gore, Clinton, are all Clinton Democrats. "Third Way Democrats". Corporate Democrats. Hell my dad voted for Al Gore. Even Jimmy Carter wasn't exactly a hippie. You can be pretty right wing or even insane like Trump and win Florida as a Republican, but you have to be very moderate to win as a Democrat.
tumbleweed the wanderer	Wed Jan 19 18:10:28 it's clearly extreme & intentional gerrymandering --------- other news, The Supreme Court rejected Trump's attempt to block documents to Jan 6th committee (8-1 vote) all of Trumps picks voting against him thus he will feel betrayed as he's corrupt & should never be allowed in power again
tumbleweed the wanderer	Wed Jan 19 19:09:22 Fox: "EXCLUSIVE: Former President Trump denied President Biden’s suggestion that he is working to "intimidate" members of the GOP, telling Fox News that the Republican Party "loves" him, and that the feeling is mutual." yep, no intimidation going on at all... just primarying & smearing as RINOs every single one who isn't completely loyal to him personally
Habebe Member	Wed Jan 19 19:23:48 TW, And the left hasn't been smearing and attacking Manchin and Sinema?
Habebe Member	Wed Jan 19 19:26:13 Not that one is better than the other or what aboutism. Only that politicians are going to politic.
Rugian Member	Wed Jan 19 19:26:28 "Sanders Says He Is Open to Supporting Primary Challenges to Sinema, Manchin" http://www...-to-sinema-manchin-11642550527
Habebe Member	Wed Jan 19 19:57:52 Politicians politicking.^
tumbleweed the wanderer	Wed Jan 19 21:20:22 so you see no unusual levels of intimidation going on with Trump? plus Manchin and Sinema are being attacked over policy views
Habebe Member	Wed Jan 19 23:56:11 They are being attacked for not towing the party line. Trump has plenty of free time now, what did you expect?
Habebe Member	Wed Jan 19 23:56:56 Sunema and I think * Manchin have been pro filibuster for a while, nothing new.
Habebe Member	Thu Jan 20 00:12:28 Eric Trump appeared for a deposition in October 2020. Tuesday's court filing said he "invoked his Fifth Amendment right against self-incrimination in response to more than 500 questions over six hours." http://www...ays/ar-AASWixn?ocid=uxbndlbing Rotflmao
Habebe Member	Thu Jan 20 00:12:29 Eric Trump appeared for a deposition in October 2020. Tuesday's court filing said he "invoked his Fifth Amendment right against self-incrimination in response to more than 500 questions over six hours." http://www...ays/ar-AASWixn?ocid=uxbndlbing Rotflmao
Habebe Member	Thu Jan 20 00:20:16 http://www...aten-cut-funding-sinema-527413 Now this is grimey. Top donors threaten to cut off funding to Sinema The donors said they will support a primary challenge, and demanded that the senator refund their contributions. ------ Democrats, bought and paid for.
Habebe Member	Thu Jan 20 00:20:51 Republicans should tey and crowd fund her.
tumbleweed the wanderer	Thu Jan 20 00:42:56 "They are being attacked for not towing the party line" and Trump is going after those who don't tow the Trump line the party line is NOT that 2020 was massively fraudulent & that Trump won*...even though he wants it to be & he will make that the theme of every rally he does & every speaker will have to say so *though most too terrified to refute him so just keep mouth shut altogether... & they must secretly disagree otherwise why wouldn't they just be repeating his claims? it's the message of the leader after all
Habebe Member	Thu Jan 20 01:06:05 TW, "and Trump is going after those who don't tow the Trump line" True, 100%.
murder Member	Thu Jan 20 05:23:40 "Sunema and I think * Manchin have been pro filibuster for a while, nothing new." They just supported a carveout to the filibuster last month. Literally just did it.
tumbleweed the wanderer	Thu Jan 20 12:35:03 Jan 6th commission letter to Ivanka Trump http://jan...0and%20Enclosures_Redacted.pdf includes... some comments by rioters surrounding Trump's tweet about Pence failing to chuck the votes as pressured to do: -"Once we found out Pence turned on us and that they had stolen the election, like officially, the crowd went crazy. I mean, it became a mob. We crossed the gate." -"Then we heard the news on Pence... And lost it... So we stormed." -"They're making an announcement right now saying if Pence betrays us you better get your mind right because we're storming that building." =================================== on Ivanka being asked to help: " In his sworn testimony, General Keith Kellogg explained that White House staff wanted the President to take some immediate action to quell the unrest. The President was, according to one account, "stubborn," and staff recognized that you may be the only person who could persuade him to act: Q: Did you think that she [Ivanka Trump] could help get him [President Trump] to a place where he would make a statement to try to stop this? A: Yes Q: So you thought that Ivanka could get her father to do something about it? A: To take a course of action. Q: He didn't say yes to Mark Meadows or Kayleigh McEnany or Keith Kellogg, but he might say yes to his daughter? A: Exactly right. The testimony also suggests that you agreed to talk to the President, but had to make multiple efforts to persuade President Trump to act: Q: And so presumably the first time she [Ivanka Trump] went in, it wasn't sufficient or she wouldn't have had to go back at least one more time, I assume. Is that correct? A: Well, yes, Ma'am. I think she went back there because Ivanka can be pretty tenacious. . .. " =================================== " Incoming Text (from unnamed person): "Is someone getting to potus? He has to tell protestors to dissipate." Response from WH Staff Member: "I've been trying for the last 30 minutes. Literally stormed in outer oval to get him to put out the first one. It's completely insane" " =================================== on post Jan 6th efforts to wrangle the crazed madman: " Sean Hannity appears to have been part of those efforts. Mr Hannity's texts to both the White House Chief of Staff and White House Press Secretary describe his communications with the President. First, on January 7th, Mr. Hannity texted Ms. McEnany, laying out a five point approach for conversations with President Trump. Items one and two of that plan read as follows: "1 - No more stolen election talk" "2 - Yes, impeachment and 25th amendment are real, and many people will quit..." In response, Ms. McEnany replied: "Love that. Thank you. That is the playbook. I will help reinforce. ..." Ms. McEnany also agreed with Mr. Hannity's text specifically recommending that the White House staff should make an effort to keep Mr. Trump away from certain people: Sean Hannity: "... Key now. No more crazy people." Kayleigh McEnany responded: "Yes 100%". A few days later, on January 10, 2021, Mr. Hannity wrote to the White House Chief of Staff and Congressman Jim Jordan with the following message: "Guys, we have a clear path to land the plane in 9 days. He can't mention the election again. Ever. I did not have a good call with him today. And worse, I'm not sure what is left to do or say, and I don't like knowing if it's truly understood. Ideas?" " =================================== so yeah, Trump definitely caused the riot & definitely resisted asking them to stop & Hannity definitely was worried about what the psycho would do & continue to do while in power... & Trump incredibly clearly unfit for office (as was obvious from the beginning, but yet more evidence if any more storage space can be found) ("Key now. No more crazy people" - Hannity how about never any crazy people?... such a fucked up 'presidency'...)
tumbleweed the wanderer	Thu Jan 20 22:55:00 Hannity had Trump on tonight... such good judgment ---------- "My phone call to the Secretary of State of Georgia was perfect, perhaps even more so than my call with the Ukrainian President, if that’s possible." ~ the fifth element of phone calls
tumbleweed the wanderer	Fri Jan 21 00:39:24 fuckhead must've dozed off or something... http://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1484354265946607626 whu? wall! he said wall! state wall bullshit also, apparently the wall was only 3 weeks from completion?... nearly all replacement fencing for 4 years, then only needed 3 more weeks to get all the new fencing... that's some poor time management there
murder Member	Fri Jan 21 04:43:16 ^ lmfao! :o)
murder Member	Fri Jan 21 10:57:12 Great news for the negro! Ron Filipkowski @RonFilipkowski Actor Jon Voigt says Abraham Lincoln’s spirit is now guiding Donald Trump. http://twitter.com/RonFilipkowski/status/1484528973946269700
tumbleweed the wanderer	Fri Jan 21 12:07:20 Voigt has been living proof of the cult for awhile
tumbleweed the wanderer	Fri Jan 21 23:36:14 "M&M’s will not be satisfied until every last cartoon character is deeply unappealing and totally androgynous. Until the moment you wouldn’t want to have a drink with any one of them. That’s the goal. When you’re totally turned off, we’ve achieved equity." ~ Tucker (who apparently lusted after M&M characters til now) http://twitter.com/Acyn/status/1484723825606479872
murder Member	Sat Jan 22 11:54:40 I keep waiting for someone to admit that the M&M thing is just some kind of joke. I mean wtf is there to get upset over. They're fucking M&Ms!
Rugian Member	Sat Jan 22 11:56:59 Murder If thats true, then why the change in the first place? Your side thought that a green M&M with sexy legs was actually a problematic and disempowering objectification of women. My side thinks your side is stupid for believing that. I'm pretty comfortable with my side being the less crazy one here.
Habebe Member	Sat Jan 22 12:06:27 http://rule34.us/index.php?r=posts/index&q=m%26m%27s Dulcisphiliac? Is that a word?
tumbleweed the wanderer	Sat Jan 22 12:25:36 the side advocating for less sexy M&M characters was quite small i bet... just like the side advocating for teaching white kids to hate themselves ------------- an unrelated weird item that was posted recently: http://www...fer-jacket/6465073?color=BLACK but would be decent if Tucker wanted to spend $2000 to make his significant shaped kinda like an M&M character (i suspect it's not meant to be worn without pants though)
tumbleweed the wanderer	Sat Jan 22 12:31:36 ...or maybe Russia should buy it for Tucker to reward him for the repeated anti-Ukraine/pro-Russia stances Tucker has put out it will certainly help when Putin invades to hinder any US response
Rugian Member	Sat Jan 22 12:52:34 tumbleweed the wanderer Sat Jan 22 12:25:36 the side advocating for less sexy M&M characters was quite small i bet... just like the side advocating for teaching white kids to hate themselves If you think that the forces of political correctness are a fringe movement, rather than the dominant ideology in control of virtually every major institution in contemporary America, then you are radically out of touch.
tumbleweed the wanderer	Sat Jan 22 13:01:33 do you think it's more likely they were flooded with hate mail or that it was one woman in the advertising department?
Rugian Member	Sat Jan 22 13:26:27 You seriously think that Mars Inc.'s marketing department makes decisions about one of its most recognizable advertising campaigns based on a single random woman? And even if not a lot of people had an issue with the old characters, those that did were able to get a company with $30 billion of annual revenues to change course on the issue...I'd say that makes them influential.
Rugian Member	Sat Jan 22 13:36:16 "Candy is about to get more “inclusive,” with the maker of M&M’s announcing its famed characters are getting modern makeovers and will have more “nuanced personalities.” ...The green M&M, previously seen in ads posing seductively and strutting her stuff in white go-go boots, will now sport a pair of sneakers. A description for the green candy on the M&M’s website says she enjoys “being a hypewoman for my friends.” “I think we all win when we see more women in leading roles, so I’m happy to take on the part of supportive friend when they succeed,” the green M&M said on the promotional site. Another character, the brown M&M, described her motto as, “Not bossy. Just the boss.” Mars said in announcing the refresh that M&M’s — which were first released in 1941 — will have “an updated tone of voice that is more inclusive, welcoming, and unifying, while remaining rooted in our signature jester, wit and humor.”" http://the...cters-to-become-more-inclusive At the end of the day, I couldn't care less what the mascots for a candy are...but I do care when the company is selling a blatant social justice warrior mentality with them.
Habebe Member	Sat Jan 22 13:51:08 TW, "the side advocating for less sexy M&M characters was quite small i bet... just like the side advocating for teaching white kids to hate themselves" I have to agree with TW here even though its a past time of his to find similarly crazy minorities on the right and amplify their noise as of its sanctioned by the most Republicans. But I think Rugian is talking more about a pattern of crazy actions like this and the Dr. Seuss shit and a million other things which is supported by a sizeable minority and OK'd by a larger group. But its fantastic for Republicans, even full on Trumpists rarely come off as crazy as the side that talks about Transphobic infants.
murder Member	Sat Jan 22 14:00:15 "If thats true, then why the change in the first place?" I don't even know what the change is. They are talking candy. If every single one of them changed character gender and sexual preference for each ad, I'd never even know. "Your side thought that a green M&M with sexy legs was actually a problematic and disempowering objectification of women. My side thinks your side is stupid for believing that." I didn't even realize that there was supposed to be an M&M with "sexy legs". Who keeps track of this shit? lol :o)
Habebe Member	Sat Jan 22 14:02:29 Did no one see my candy porn link?
tumbleweed the wanderer	Sat Jan 22 14:08:12 "You seriously think that Mars Inc.'s marketing department makes decisions about one of its most recognizable advertising campaigns based on a single random woman?" if she was persuasive... i know i haven't heard anyone complain the green M&M was too sexy... perhaps they -thought- the change would impress a lot of people, doesn't mean they were right ============= "find similarly crazy minorities on the right and amplify their noise as of its sanctioned by the most Republicans" the problem is those crazies are being led by Trump... the -leader- of the party, somehow still wanted as 2024 nominee despite having no connection to truth or democracy or lawfulness... and i've noted repeatedly much the party adults do NOT repeat his message despite him being the leader (which is fucked up), yet they are -afraid- to contradict it... so when asked they hedge & talk about 'irregularities' or Dems changing rules, which is NOT at all what Trump talks about, but makes it sound like they are sorta on his side so Trump continues to poison the cult w/ no pushback from the adults who know better... the cult already now thinks all news is fake & Dems are the devil, so pushback from the left or center is meaningless to them (the adults should also be noting how incredibly fucked up Trump's post-election actions were behind the scenes... but nothing, except from the ones being excommunicated)
Habebe Member	Sat Jan 22 14:13:14 Trump said something the other day that should probably be applied to like half of what he says. "I mean, I said it and I sort of meant it, but not really" Or something like that. He was talking about how if Biden won the country would fall apart, it was within the last week. Far more real honesty than we get from most politicians.
tumbleweed the wanderer	Sat Jan 22 14:16:42 his cultists believe what he says, they repeat it & pretty sure every speaker at his last rally claimed Trump won the election (there was a montage of at least 4 of them saying it... & they were all known to push it prior) it's his main message, & will be for every rally going forward it's fucking crazy
Habebe Member	Sat Jan 22 14:23:28 And how many dems have spouted Russia alpied with Trump to steal HRC's election? 78% of Democrats beleived that Russia physically changed vote tallies. ------- http://www...-for-protecting-filibuster.amp Now for standing up for the filibuster the Dems have declared war on Sinema, they have now censured her, pushed to have funding cut all as a means to coerce her vote. Im not saying Republicans are better, but I am saying they are no worse.
murder Member	Sat Jan 22 14:47:37 You're not entitled to funding. You're sure as hell not entitle to funding from people that you are screwing over.
murder Member	Sat Jan 22 14:51:43 "And how many dems have spouted Russia alpied with Trump to steal HRC's election?" Russia absolutely helped Trump. Trump absolutely colluded with Russia to achieve it. It's amazing to me that it is on the record that Trump Jr scheduled a meeting for this very purpose and somehow Republicans keep disputing that fact. And then of course there was that "joke" where Trump openly asked Russia to interfere. But it was just a joke. And it's a total coincidence that he would benefit from them following through on it.
tumbleweed the wanderer	Sat Jan 22 15:04:45 "78% of Democrats beleived that Russia physically changed vote tallies. " as pushed by Hillary never... i also doubt that 78% true, maybe that Russia influenced outcome (it's fucking idiotic to claim Russia has 0 effect... that would mean all campaign advertising & commentary has 0 effect on voters) whereas the entire mass voter fraud theory believed by heaps is entirely from Trump... a big red flag being when he made up 3-5 million fraud voters (all for Hillary) as he couldn't accept he lost just the popular vote in 2016 (by a coincidental 2.9 million votes)
tumbleweed the wanderer	Sat Jan 22 15:07:45 "It's amazing to me that it is on the record that Trump Jr scheduled a meeting for this very purpose and somehow Republicans keep disputing that fact. " agreed... so bizarre & frustrating... instead they hang their hat on Bill Barr's deliberately misleading assessment of the Mueller report who cares what actually went on no one got charged with collusion is all that matters... even though collusion isn't a crime that could be charged...
Habebe Member	Sat Jan 22 15:27:21 http://new...iplomacy-sanctions-russia.aspx As.of 2018. Murder, A preponderance of the evidence clearly suggest HRC to be working with Russians to interfere in the election. Also, even what your skating around is different. Democrats beleive vote tallies were hacked and changed to change the outcome of the 2016 election.That has zero evidence and is qanon level of crazy conspiracy theories.
Habebe Member	Sat Jan 22 15:29:32 Does anyone disagree that HRC hired a lawyer to hire an author to write the steele dossier and lie to the FBI about it for the purposes of political gain? Anyone?
tumbleweed the wanderer	Sat Jan 22 15:31:50 "Seventy-five percent of Americans think Russia interfered in the 2016 U.S. presidential election, while 16% say it did not interfere." the 75% are factually accurate... as EVERY SINGLE ENTITY concluded w/ exception of the 'president' (which is fucked up), who actively worked to defend Russia & cause doubt that they interfered (which is even more fucked up) "Those who think Russia interfered are about equally split as to the effect -- 36% say Russia interfered but it did not change the outcome, while 39% say it interfered and its actions changed the election outcome." fairly meaningless as an unknowable answer
tumbleweed the wanderer	Sat Jan 22 15:34:19 "Does anyone disagree that HRC hired a lawyer to hire an author to write the steele dossier and lie to the FBI about it for the purposes of political gain? Anyone?" yes... w/ certainty Hillary campaign hired a firm for opposition research (the same firm Republicans had hired)... people want real info when they do this, or they'd hire fiction writers and what political/election gain did it give as she used none of it publicly?
Habebe Member	Sat Jan 22 15:36:08 Hillary LITERALLY proxy hired a Russian who has now plead guilty!
tumbleweed the wanderer	Sat Jan 22 15:36:40 (well, none of Steele dossier... i don't know if she used other stuff that firm provided)
Habebe Member	Sat Jan 22 15:40:33 Democrats Say Russia Altered Election Outcome; Republicans Disagree Democrats widely believe Russians interfered in the 2016 campaign and that it changed the outcome of the election (78% say this), presumably by helping Trump defeat Hillary Clinton. Just 9% of Republicans agree that Russians interfered and changed the outcome of the election. Rather, the majority of Republicans, 58%, believe Russia interfered but it did not change the outcome. Nearly one in three Republicans reject the idea that Russia interfered.
murder Member	Sat Jan 22 15:41:50 "Also, even what your skating around is different. Democrats beleive vote tallies were hacked and changed to change the outcome of the 2016 election.That has zero evidence and is qanon level of crazy conspiracy theories." I don't know a single person that believes that Russia tampered with the vote totals.
tumbleweed the wanderer	Sat Jan 22 15:42:11 actually he pleaded not guilty Hillary hired her campaign, her campaign hired Fusion GPS, Fusion GPS hired Christopher Steele (a former spy, not fiction writer), & Steele used as a source someone who is now charged w/ lying to FBI Steele investigated Trump's Russia ties as was totally warranted given he definitely had them, plus was curiously pro Russia all campaign none of the Steele dossier was made public before election if not just what it looks like, what was the corrupt deception strategy that makes any sense?
Habebe Member	Sat Jan 22 15:43:37 TW, You have always been stubborn. But this is a blatant lie.
tumbleweed the wanderer	Sat Jan 22 15:45:56 "(78% say this)" your initial claim seemed to be tampering w/ votes which is extremely different... if 78% think their interference changed outcome, so what? it's unknowable, he won by a slim margin it doesn't make our elections fraudulent
tumbleweed the wanderer	Sat Jan 22 15:46:37 "But this is a blatant lie" explain... including how the plan was supposed to work
Habebe Member	Sat Jan 22 15:48:28 "none of the Steele dossier was made public before election" So it is for political revenge? You just admitted that HRC had hired Russians faking stories on the payroll.This was read into the record by Schiff to help impeach a legally elected potus. Facts.
Habebe Member	Sat Jan 22 15:49:27 I typed the blatant lie post before Your ecuse that she hired some who hired someone.
Habebe Member	Sat Jan 22 15:50:54 Changing the outcome means changing vote tallies.They "changed the outcome" of an election, not that they merely influenced the election. There is a clear distinction.
tumbleweed the wanderer	Sat Jan 22 16:00:44 "You just admitted that HRC had hired Russians faking stories on the payroll" i did not... i don't know if Steele paid the guy or not, & i certainly have no information that Hillary paid him (& if there was evidence of that, i'm sure it would be all over the news)... & she didn't use the fake information which strongly suggests she wasn't paying for fake information ------------ "Changing the outcome means changing vote tallies" changing vote tallies can also mean through hacking... Russia hacked into numerous election systems so was concern of it the 78% is not on hacking, & we will never know if they changed the outcome Trump won election w/ 3 states w/ 3 very slim margins the 30% of Rs saying Russia didn't interfere are the only ones definitely wrong & believing the Fraud, as he's the only one to conclude that (which was totally fucked up for him to do... can we agree it's totally fucked up for the 'president' to opening disagree w/ all of our intel agency conclusions & the conclusions of both parties in congress based on nothing but the word of Putin? should he not have an ounce of evidence supporting his case that everyone on our side is lying?)
Habebe Member	Sat Jan 22 16:21:04 78% beleive that Russia not only interfered (posted memes) but that HRC won and they changed votes to make Trump win. With zero evidence. There is some evidence they posted memes on FB. Big difference. I'll check if Igor was paid, but wasn't steele being paid? This would be like Trump having Giuliani using Russians to make up anti HRC stories and giving it to the FBI while denying he is being paid to do this by Trump.
Habebe Member	Sat Jan 22 16:22:44 And it was on the news. Just not the CNN/MSNBC crowd.
tumbleweed the wanderer	Sat Jan 22 17:02:06 "...that HRC won and they changed votes to make Trump win. With zero evidence" if by changing votes you mean got people to vote Trump when they would have stayed home, or got Hillary voters to stay home, or the unlikely got Hillary voter to change to Trump voter, there is no way to know their total effect there isn't zero evidence, they definitely interfered (as all have concluded)... they definitely had ads (including specific targeting), & posed as Americans to spew disinformation, & recruited actual Americans to hold events, plus the hacking efforts of DNC & other attempts to say it can't possibly have had any fragment of influence on a single person makes no sense ======================= "This would be like Trump having Giuliani using Russians to make up anti HRC stories and giving it to the FBI while denying he is being paid to do this by Trump" fun fact: Giuliani -did- get misinformation from Russians but spewed it publicly, not to FBI where it would be hidden from public there's no indication Hillary orchestrated the Steele dossier (plus it was -not- used by her, so there's no reason to even think so) you don't think leaking the pee tape story a week before election would've been handy?
tumbleweed the wanderer	Sat Jan 22 17:40:07 also, Trump claims aren't based on factual info (Russia interference was real... the effect is unknowable) mass voter fraud is not shown to be real a single time, much less being large enough to swing the multiple States required... despite the massive continual stream of fraud claims that have come from Trump after election to the present (which is incredibly unfit behavior, disqualifying him ever holding office, rather than the nothing it's treated as by most Rs) and even if they did establish mass fraud in a single place, there'd be no reason to assume it was to benefit Biden even though fuckhead has primed all to instantly do so... it would actually more likely be for Trump: - if you have two teams prepping for a game, and one coach has drilled into his team that the other side will cheat, some bound to develop a 'we better cheat too' attitude (as we already have seen from at least one fraud voter for Trump's excuse...'i did it as they were doing it') - plus Trump attracts criminals like flies & exudes immoral behavior... plus, well, he told his voters to vote twice
Habebe Member	Sat Jan 22 23:05:51 "if by changing votes you mean got people to vote Trump when they would have stayed home, or got Hillary voters to stay home, or the unlikely got Hillary voter to change to Trump voter, there is no way to know their total effect" They gave a very clear distinction that your trying to twist to fit your view. They asked did they interfere or did they interfere and change the outcome, meaning did HRC win and did they somehow hack or physically change vote totals. These are distinct choices.
Habebe Member	Sat Jan 22 23:13:38 Also by your definition. Posting memes influenced the election.Thats a bit of a stretch. If memes can be counted as meddling, can't just talking about the election? How about hiring people make up what we know to be a largely made up dossier? That wouldn't effect the 2020 elections? How about running a shadow campaign to pressure companies and changenlaws and regulatuons? Something that democrats not only openly admit but brag about...isnt that more than some memes?
Habebe Member	Sat Jan 22 23:23:13 http://twi...?t=5BmbNEFzudq7ukRjTtMH9A&s=19 Yougovs poll uses different language that may be more towards your liking. Did Russia meddle with vote tallies in order to get Trump elected? 67% of Dems beleived it to be either definitely true or probably true. We know that didnt happen as well as we know it didnt happen in 2020 for Biden.
tumbleweed the wanderer	Sun Jan 23 00:47:38 "They gave a very clear distinction that your trying to twist to fit your view. They asked did they interfere or did they interfere and change the outcome, meaning did HRC win and did they somehow hack or physically change vote totals" you're changing the meaning again... the poll is only 'do you believe Russian interference changed the outcome' (there's no implication of hacking) & there was never any widespread reporting or claims of vote tampering so no reason 78% would ever come to that opinion ------------- "Posting memes influenced the election" they did more than that, much more... but any & everything can affect views... there's no question plenty of R's were uneasy about voting for Trump but did it anyway to vote against Hillary... you put out heaps of of fake shit against Hillary or just people pretending to hate her, it influences people, 'meh, i guess i better hold my nose & vote for that fucking idiot'. IIRC 70% in exit polls said Trump didn't have the temperament to be president, that means many of his own voters felt it. -------------- "How about hiring people make up what we know to be a largely made up dossier? That wouldn't effect the 2020 elections?" there's zero evidence anyone sought fake information... & are you now implying it was about 2020? that's some real forward thinking ----------- "How about running a shadow campaign to pressure companies and change laws and regulations?" i don't know what this refers to... but it's legal to try to influence voters. Whereas getting help from foreign powers, especially enemies is frowned upon. There were rules changed due to covid... i don't see how they only benefited D's or why that should be presumed to be the corrupt motive. ------------------ "Yougovs poll" i'll grant you that question says tampering... maybe some didn't pay close enough attention to the wording, or they thought question was asking about motive (did they act "in order to get Donald Trump elected")... i know vote tampering wasn't being pushed by media or political leaders whereas Trump is the -SOURCE- of the misinformation (& spewing it fast & furiously, especially while still 'president')
Habebe Member	Sun Jan 23 01:11:07 1. I don't know that They Did anything more than memes and helped post a factual account of her e-mails, which I see as a good thing, she never denied the emails validity and has even called them "my emails" "there's zero evidence anyone sought fake information... & are you now implying it was about 2020? that's some real forward thinking" A reasonable person would conclude they did. As for forward thinking, it could revenge it could be the hard on tye dems had against Trump. Even you have to admit tge left sees Trump as public enemy #1. As for the shadow campaign http://www...-election-campaign/%3famp=true Is it legal? Yes. But so was Trumps behaviour. There is zero evidence after the most exhaustive campaign to smear a POTUS in history, even if you find it valid, there is no denying the anti Trump campaign that was waged. They impeached him twice and have spent how many man hours examining his every move. Yougovs poll was beyond clear.The left's intent was clear. Im sure we could find HRC/Dem statements that clearly imply, at best its word games.
tumbleweed the wanderer	Sun Jan 23 11:39:24 "I don't know that They Did anything more than memes" here's a wikipedia summary, seems most concise summary i've seen... feel free to read the Mueller report if interested in details: " The Internet Research Agency (IRA), based in Saint Petersburg, Russia and described as a troll farm, created thousands of social media accounts that purported to be Americans supporting radical political groups and planned or promoted events in support of Trump and against Clinton. They reached millions of social media users between 2013 and 2017. Fabricated articles and disinformation were spread from Russian government-controlled media, and promoted on social media. Additionally, computer hackers affiliated with the Russian military intelligence service (GRU) infiltrated information systems of the Democratic National Committee (DNC), the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee (DCCC), and Clinton campaign officials, notably chairman John Podesta, and publicly released stolen files and emails through DCLeaks, Guccifer 2.0 and WikiLeaks during the election campaign. " ----------- " As for forward thinking, it could revenge it could be the hard on the dems had against Trump. Even you have to admit the left sees Trump as public enemy #1. " no it couldn't be, as the dossier was done before election, just not public (also, the dossier is NOT what caused investigations, & NOT why people suspect Trump is tied to Russia... plus Trump, through public actions, has already proven he's loyal to them, including over us) ---------- "But so was Trumps behaviour" i haven't said Trump's behavior illegal in regards to Russia... ethically he's guilty, he even admitted he'd take help from foreign powers, not that there was any doubt... plus he's wholly unfit for office given his loyalty to them over us (willing to smear our side to defend them) i certainly hope some of his behavior in 2020 was illegal as it definitely should be & all his fraudulent business practices should face more than fines, time for prison
tumbleweed the wanderer	Sun Jan 23 11:40:17 this is the wikipedia link referenced above: http://en....e_2016_United_States_elections
Habebe Member	Sun Jan 23 13:34:11 "They reached millions of social media users between 2013 and 2017." What werethey doing in 2015? That's long before Trump was on the scene. Also, it never says the IRA had any ties to the Russian government other than russia state media used them as sources.Well, they use the NYT as well. As for the russian military hackers they posted HRC's actual emails, nothing fabricated. People found them to be repugnant, but they were her legitimate emails. I cant stress this enough, if she wasn't a horrible person sending e-mails that make her look bad there wouldnt be a problem. " no it couldn't be, as the dossier was done before election, just not public" So it was being used to investigate Trump and HRC was already trying to falsely accuse him of ties to Putin for the purposes of political gain. Your claims that he was always pro Russian are a distortion of reality. He said "wouldnt it be a good thing if we got along with Russia?" And how many times were these supposed pro russian statements made after journalists were attacking him, that context is a big deal. As for policy the facts are in the best policy advocate for Russian interests has been joe Biden.There is no way around it. Want to talk about ties now? Hunter Biden helped get China nuclear materials. Facts. What policy has Trump done that was so pro Russia as Biden's pipeline? How about sanction relief? Ethically he is guilty? You may mean morally. Thats a judgement call. If Russia leaked legitimate emails that show HRC as the monster she is, isnt that morally a good thing? What ethics code didnhe break?
tumbleweed the wanderer	Sun Jan 23 15:07:15 "As for the russian military hackers they posted HRC's actual emails, nothing fabricated. People found them to be repugnant, but they were her legitimate emails." i don't recall them even hacking Hillary emails, i also don't recall any repugnant ones by Hillary... but hacking & releasing is criminal behavior we've been over this shit repeatedly, & you still say all Russia posted were memes, & that all Trump said is we should get along w/ Russia... THERE WAS TONS MORE, i'm tired of repeating all his -CONSTANT- pro Russia stances & defenses including the fucking absurd campaign to undermine all conclusions of EVERYONE in our gov't, why do you keep forgetting that? ------ "How about sanction relief?" yes, Trump tried his best to end/delay sanctions on Russia as for the pipeline it was nearly finished when Biden took over (& nothing is flowing through it)... Germany is also an element, i haven't followed Biden's reasons but not wanting to piss off Germany might be related (& Trump ONLY ever mentioned the pipeline to attack Germany) ------ "What ethics code did he break?" MANY, his whole life... in regards to Russia, the Don Jr meeting that he was clearly fully aware of (plus lying to the public he had nothing to do w/ Russia, when minimally he had a secret tower deal in the works all campaign long... plus corruptly firing Comey & repeated obstruction of justice & witness intimidation...) i don't know that we're making any progress here i don't know why people can't see the extremely different bizarre fucked up behavior of Trump, but nevertheless it's affecting many
Habebe Member	Mon Jan 24 02:19:09 The hillarry campaign emails and internal details. Yes we have been over this a million times and you still leave out that many of these supposed pro Russian statements if not all were in response to verbal attacks on Trump insinuating he did something wrong, his pro Russian comments were him defending himself, which of course he would do, we all know he can't help himself. As for Nordstream2, yes, yes blah blah blah Germany. Well what have we gotten from Germany? Now they are bucking Bidens plan to send weapons to the Ukraine and Russia Is threatening to put weapons in Cuba and invade the Ukraine. Worst negotiator ever. Im still not sure it was unethical. If had worked with Russia to meddle in the election, yes then it would be not acting in good faith. You seem ok with Hunter securing Cobalt for China. No we're not getting anywhere with this. I used to think atleast Id get some knowledge about what really happened with Russia, I even thought maybe Id get you to admit that the DNC/Hillary are scum. I knew you'd never like Trump, it doesn't work that way.
tumbleweed the wanderer	Mon Jan 24 12:08:12 how were poisonings an attack on Trump? he advocated for Russia back in the G7/G8 (kicked out for invading Ukraine)... no attack on Trump he defended Putin being a killer... why? no attack on Trump you will find absolutely no attacks on Putin, whereas you'll have a hard time finding an ally he didn't attack & prior to election, he wistfully hoped for Putin to be his best friend on Twitter... & there are unearthed letters begging Putin to come to his beauty pageant show... including a pathetic 'i noticed you haven't responded...' one he worked for ~2 years to undermine conclusions of our intel community & congress, including smearing them... & asking allies to spread Putin's talking point of 'if it was Russia, we'd never have known'(as they're so good)... he did this as 'president'... with NO evidence... on specifically interference, not collusion... even if the mental child was unable to separate collusion from interference or couldn't stand to admit Russia helped him, how is that behavior remotely fit for office? man up... minimally, shut up not actively work to undermine our side he never once advocated any action against Russia on any behavior there is NO DOUBT he is 100% Russia friend... there is NO DOUBT AT ALL as for pipeline, there is NO EVIDENCE AT ALL that Biden working w/ Putin... what pro Russia aura being exuded by this White House? Biden would be talking like Tucker if on Putin's side (as would Trump if he was in office) i know nothing about Hunter, cobalt & China... was it illegal somehow? did he work against Americans in favor of Chinese? (i know the Hillary uranium story was nonsense)
tumbleweed the wanderer	Mon Jan 24 12:09:43 and not only zero insults, you'll instead find repeated praise & admiration for Putin
tumbleweed the wanderer	Mon Jan 24 12:14:21 " What’s happening with Russia and Ukraine would never have happened under the Trump Administration. Not even a possibility! " ~ idiot boy (today) that's as close as you'll ever get to condemnation from him, which is none at all
tumbleweed the wanderer	Mon Jan 24 12:17:26 changing topic: " Matt Gaetz said today that when Republicans take power again they should reject the seniority system for selecting committee chairs, and instead choose true fighters like himself, Marge Greene, Lauren Boebert and Madison Cawthorn to run the committees. video of it: http://twitter.com/RonFilipkowski/status/1485659891805175817 " Gaetz, Greene, Boebert & Cawthorn are the among the worst & dumbest... so they probably will be the leaders...
tumbleweed the wanderer	Tue Jan 25 12:20:39 ““Drop boxes” are for Democrats, not for Republicans. They are a disgrace to our system of Elections and will always lead to massive Voter Fraud.” ~ fuckhead um, how are they only for Dems? there was no disparity in mail-in usage til fuckhead came along and how do they always lead to mass voter fraud? i mean yeah, obviously the fucking moron thinks you can just drop ballot after ballot in as he has no understanding of anything (just like he claims you can change hats and keep voting as often as you like in person... though he had to put that on back burner given the switch to attack mail-in balloting as the real fraud)
tumbleweed the wanderer	Tue Jan 25 12:27:14 "Have we ever seen a President attack and malign the free press like Joe Biden has??" ~ Rep Jim Banks
murder Member	Tue Jan 25 12:29:24 "just like he claims you can change hats and keep voting as often as you like in person" lmfao! :o)
Habebe Member	Tue Jan 25 13:09:18 "he advocated for Russia back in the G7/G8 (kicked out for invading Ukraine)... no attack on Trump" He did. And your right no attack. But that doesn't seem that important either.Could lead to better relations though. Meh. " he defended Putin being a killer... why? no attack on Trump" Why would he? Would that lead a benefit for the US? Did Putin threaten to invade under Trump? Twicw under Biden. How about his finger wagging at the Saudis? What did it do for Americans? Raise gas prices, yay what a brilliant tactician.Its virtue signaling that only hurts us with no benefit. "he worked for ~2 years to undermine conclusions of our intel community & congress, including smearing them" Rightfully so. Our Intel agencies are terrible right now, drain the swamp. He wanted to be friendly with Putin? Uhm ok, is that bad? Its not Xi. Giving our greatest enemy nuclear material...what could be bad about that? The pipeline is a real tangible massive power/cash grab for Russia and gives them enormous leverage over Europe.# Buy US Why shutdown key stone but give Russia their pipeline? What benefit has it had with our relationship with Germany? Made a, they openly work against Bidens interest (Ukraine?) ------- As for abandoning seniority in committees , isnt that the more democratic thing? Something I hear all the time against the Senate, the electoral college and the filibuster. Suddenly that doesnt matter?
	show deleted posts