Utopia Talk / Politics / US & EU threaten Russia with sanctions

murder Member	Thu Jan 20 08:13:35 Reuters @Reuters European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen said the EU will respond with ‘massive’ economic and financial sanctions if Russia attacks Ukraine http://twitter.com/Reuters/status/1484161288758390784
murder Member	Thu Jan 20 08:15:08 Europe threatens 'massive' sanctions if Russia attacks Ukraine BERLIN, Jan 20 (Reuters) - The European Union threatened "massive" economic sanctions if Moscow attacks Ukraine, and U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken rallied allies on Thursday ahead of last-ditch crisis talks with Russia aimed at preventing war. Western countries are seeking to present a united diplomatic front before Blinken meets Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov in Geneva on Friday, widely seen as one of the last chances to stop Russia from launching a new attack. Blinken visited Kyiv on Wednesday and met German, French and British ministers on Thursday in Berlin. On Wednesday, U.S. President Joe Biden gave his clearest indication yet that he believes a Russian attack is likely. "My guess is he will move in," Biden said of Russian President Vladimir Putin. "He has to do something." Western countries say they fear Russia is planning a new assault against Ukraine, nearly eight years after its forces entered Ukraine and seized the Crimea peninsula. Russia has massed tens of thousands of troops near Ukraine's border in recent months. It denies planning an attack but says it could take unspecified military action unless a list of demands are met, including a promise from NATO never to admit Kyiv. Biden and other Western leaders have threatened to impose severe economic sanctions on Russia if it attacks Ukraine again. Russia, under sanctions since 2014, has largely brushed off the threat. 'WE ARE PREPARED' European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen, who heads the EU executive, said Europe would respond to a new attack "with massive economic and financial sanctions. The transatlantic community stands firm in this." "We do not accept Russia's attempt to divide Europe into spheres of influence," she said. "If attacks happen, we are prepared." The Kremlin said on Thursday that U.S. warnings of possible disastrous consequences for Russia would not help reduce tensions over Ukraine and could even destabilise the situation further. Blinken vowed in Kyiv on Wednesday that Washington would pursue diplomacy as long as it could. In Berlin, he will give a speech that will try to cast the crisis over Ukraine as a critical moment for the rules-based international order, a State Department official said. Moscow presented the West with a list of security demands at talks last week that produced no breakthrough. Repeated rounds of economic sanctions since 2014 have had scant impact on Russian policy, with Moscow, Europe's main energy supplier, calculating that the West would stop short of steps serious enough to interfere with gas exports. U.S. and European officials say there are still strong financial measures that have not been tried. Germany signalled on Tuesday that it could halt Nord Stream 2, a new gas pipeline from Russia that skirts Ukraine, if Moscow invades. Russia has moved troops to Belarus for what it calls joint military exercises, and also has forces based in a breakaway region of Moldova, giving it options to attack Ukraine from four sides. Eight years ago it seized Crimea and backed separatist forces who took control of large parts of eastern Ukraine. Russia denies planning a new invasion but says it feels menaced by Kyiv's growing ties with the West. It wants to prevent Ukraine ever joining NATO and for the alliance to pull back troops and weapons from eastern Europe. http://www...th-european-allies-2022-01-20/
Paramount Member	Thu Jan 20 10:44:03 Why is this news? They said the same thing like two weeks ago.
murder Member	Thu Jan 20 10:55:09 Because now they really really mean it? Because now the threatened sanctions will be massive? *shrug* I dunno. :o)
Paramount Member	Thu Jan 20 10:58:20 Maybe the CIA … I mean the news media, only wants to remind Russia of the consequences.
murder Member	Thu Jan 20 11:08:26 This is all theatre. Ukraine has already been sold out.
jergul large member	Thu Jan 20 11:12:08 Murder What does that even mean? If you are so stressed about it, then why not enter a bilateral security agreement like the one you have with Taiwan?
Paramount Member	Thu Jan 20 11:18:54 If the US could attack and invade Iraq and install a new government there without an approval of the UNSC, why can’t Russia attack Ukraine? If Israel can annex the Golan heights, and occupy Palestine, why can’t Russia annex Crimea and occupy Ukraine?
kargen Member	Thu Jan 20 11:19:01 There is speculation Germany wouldn't carry through on their threats. That is probably the only country that could put sanctions in place that has some teeth.
murder Member	Thu Jan 20 11:54:58 "What does that even mean?" Meaning we've already sort of promised Putin exactly what he wants. Ukraine will never be part of NATO. "If you are so stressed about it, then why not enter a bilateral security agreement like the one you have with Taiwan?" Because we have no intentions of fighting for that patch of dirt. Hell we won't even arm them.
williamthebastard Member	Tue Jan 25 09:07:18 "There is speculation Germany wouldn't carry through on their threats. That is probably the only country that could put sanctions in place that has some teeth." Wut? Put France and Spain together and theyre bigger than Germany, add the remaining 24 EU states and thats massively bigger than Germany
Habebe Member	Tue Jan 25 11:19:24 Why should the US care so much about the Ukraine? It should be more of a concern for the EU and they don't seem to be as concerned.
Habebe Member	Tue Jan 25 11:21:14 I feel like this US sabre rattling is theatre for a US domestic audience. # No new wars
murder Member	Tue Jan 25 11:25:27 "Why should the US care so much about the Ukraine?" We don't. We care about stopping Russia from taking whatever they want.
Habebe Member	Tue Jan 25 12:48:17 Why should we care more than Europe? Russia is a regional power. Its not worth sending US troops or cash.
murder Member	Tue Jan 25 12:58:38 Because there are small countries around Russia that we are obligated by treaty to defend. Also because fuck Putin and his plans to rebuild the Soviet Union.
Sam Adams Member	Tue Jan 25 18:34:13 Why are journalists and politicians so retarded? "Biden Warns Russia Invading Ukraine Could ‘Change the World’: Would Be ‘The Largest Invasion Since World War II’" Like, with the number of troops currently reported near or moving towards the ukraine... 150k or so... any non-retarded mind knows this force is dwarfed in size by both iraq invasions, and the commie invasions of both korea and vietnam. Probably others i am missing too. Like can we get the first grade level facts right?
Sam Adams Member	Tue Jan 25 18:36:02 Some of those arab invasions of israel. Iran-iraq. What else was clearly larger?
Habebe Member	Tue Jan 25 19:25:55 "Because there are small countries around Russia that we are obligated by treaty to defend." And If Russia were to invade those nations, then light em up. The Ukraine? From where I sit its not worth getting back into a war, were barely out of Afghanistan. How much of the Ukraine would be Kosher under Russian rule? More than you might think. Make the trade, definitely get something out of it, we look the other way on the Ukraine and we get some worthwhile concession out of Russia.Im fine with that. But the Ukraine isn't worth US blood. Sam, Because they would rather teach how evil white people are than basic history.
Habebe Member	Tue Jan 25 19:28:13 Maybe they meant the largest invasion of the the current Ukraine since WWII? IDK.
Pillz Member	Tue Jan 25 20:05:55 murder must have a tough time leaving the house. Between corona and the USSR, the threats to his security are just unparalleled I hope the United States takes mental health seriously before his delusions endanger anyone
jergul large member	Tue Jan 25 20:30:25 Sammy Korean war
Forwyn Member	Wed Jan 26 08:37:32 I'm just waiting on the Russian polls showing Ukrainians prefer to join Crimea lol
murder Member	Wed Jan 26 11:02:41 There's something mildly amusing about Biden threatening to send small numbers of US troops to to random East European NATO countries so they can watch Russian tanks parade through Ukraine from the front row. Doing nothing, but doing it loudly.
kargen Member	Wed Jan 26 16:18:23 "Put France and Spain together and theyre bigger than Germany" Isn't about size. It is about exports. Other countries are dependent on Russian natural gas but not near to the extent that Germany is. Honestly I doubt Germany could quit importing Russian natural gas even if they wanted to but that is really the only sanction that would have any teeth.
Habebe Member	Wed Jan 26 17:29:28 But Biden gave Nordstream 2 support to help our relationship with Germany.Im shocked it didn't pan out. I mean doubling down on Russian leverage over Germany? How couldnt that work?!
murder Member	Wed Jan 26 17:44:30 Germany needs the same amount of gas whether there's 1 pipeline, 2 pipelines, 3 pipelines, or no pipelines.
Habebe Member	Wed Jan 26 18:19:48 Then why build it?
murder Member	Wed Jan 26 19:07:56 Because it makes it easier for them to get it.
jergul large member	Wed Jan 26 20:58:30 It shift power between Ukraine and Russia.
Sam Adams Member	Thu Jan 27 10:05:36 Retarded german energy policy is really fucking nato in the ass huh.
jergul large member	Thu Jan 27 10:12:12 How do you figure? What was Nato going to do?
jergul large member	Thu Jan 27 10:13:57 If gas dependency is the only think keeping Nato from *acting*, then Ukraine could simply shut to pipeline. Problem solved. No dependency on Russian gas.
Sam Adams Member	Thu Jan 27 10:37:52 There is no way to slice it but: germany trading their 0 emissions nuke plants for dependency on russian fossil fuels is greatly retarded.
Habebe Member	Thu Jan 27 11:34:14 McConnell and Pelosi actually agree with Biden on escalating conflict with Russia...I would like to again express my disgust with our elected officials from both parties and label them as enemies of the people. We just got out of a 20 year war that weakened us and depleted much needed funds that could have been used to IDK build roads, or pay for diabetes or cancer care etc. But od course we don't have the $ for that.
Habebe Member	Thu Jan 27 11:35:16 Even the Ukraine thinks we're sensationalizing the issue.That should say something.
Rugian Member	Thu Jan 27 11:39:01 Germany has turned its back on the Western world. Thats fine. It's not our job to pick up their slack. I don't want to see the US lift a finger for Ukraine. To the rest of Europe, blame Germany if you suddenly find Russians on your doorstep.
Rugian Member	Thu Jan 27 11:40:56 And yes, the hyperbole coming out of the scumbag MSM and DC Beltway is absolutely insane. You'd think that Ukraine was the one barrier preventing the Soviets from raping and pillaging every last American city or something.
Habebe Member	Thu Jan 27 11:54:32 "I don't want to see the US lift a finger for Ukraine." Yup.This seems like a European issue that doesn't require US blood or cash. To the boards Europeans: What are your thoughts on the issue? Do you think the US should get involved? To what degree?
Habebe Member	Thu Jan 27 12:02:12 http://www...-invasion-poll-1671546%3famp=1 15.3% support boots on the ground. 31% favor sending supplies IF Russia invaded...big if. MSM has made Tucker Carlson the adult in the room....think about for a minute.
Sam Adams Member	Thu Jan 27 12:20:08 MSM really is a cancer at this point.
murder Member	Thu Jan 27 12:47:01 We should give Ukraine a few Tomahawk missiles to defend themselves with. Nuclear warheads included.
Habebe Member	Thu Jan 27 13:13:05 Murder, Yes we get your a warmonger. Sam, To think that the guy who lost his shit over sexy candy is one of the few in MSM to say mabey we shouldn't antagonize a war to defend people who dont want us that involved. Breaking points while not MSM, also is talking sense.
murder Member	Thu Jan 27 14:05:00 Self-defense is not warmongering.
Habebe Member	Thu Jan 27 14:51:59 Uhm, your Ukrainian?
murder Member	Thu Jan 27 15:14:43 No, and I wouldn't be self-defending myself from Russia.
Rugian Member	Thu Jan 27 15:24:42 So why do you want to give nukes to a country as unstable and corrupt as Ukraine?
murder Member	Thu Jan 27 15:25:43 So they can self-defend themselves from a country as unstable and corrupt as Russia.
swordtail Anarchist Prime	Thu Jan 27 16:00:53 http://twitter.com/i/status/1486653129919811586
Habebe Member	Thu Jan 27 16:03:36 Unrecognized URL
murder Member	Thu Jan 27 16:34:52 Ukraine: Conscript shoots dead five at aerospace factory A National Guard conscript in Ukraine has shot dead five people and injured another five in the eastern city of Dnipro, the interior ministry says. The man opened fire as guards were being issued weapons at the Pivdenmash aerospace plant early on Thursday. The soldier, named as Artemiy Ryabchuk, 21, fled with a Kalashnikov assault rifle. He was later arrested by police. He was then seen calmly describing how he shot people one-by-one. His motives were not immediately clear. One Ukrainian lawmaker said the suspect may have been bullied. Some reports say he surrendered to police voluntarily. National Guard chief Mykola Balan submitted his resignation request shortly afterwards, saying a commander was ultimately responsible "for any incidents, both good and bad". In a statement, President Volodymyr Zelenskiy ordered an investigation into the "terrible" shooting. "I expect law enforcement officers to keep the public fully informed about all the circumstances of this crime," he said - including the gunman's motives and "how the incident was allowed to happen". Interior Minister Denys Monastyrsky has already set up a special investigative commission. Four National Guard members - all men - were killed during the shooting that happened at 03:40 local time on Thursday (01:40 GMT), the interior ministry says. The fifth victim was a woman working for a security company. A video has now emerged where the suspect is heard saying that he shot the woman in the head because she had refused to open a door so he could leave the premises. There are fears that the death toll will increase further, as one of the injured - a woman - has a serious abdominal wound. More than 40 National Guard members and police officers have volunteered to donate blood to help the injured, the interior ministry says. Pivdenmash - known as Yuzhmash during its Soviet period - is a state-owned plant that produces and tests material related to aeronautics and defence. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60152005
murder Member	Thu Jan 27 16:35:29 http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60152005
Sam Adams Member	Thu Jan 27 18:49:22 So is russia actually considering an invasion, or is this(like so many other things) retarded journalist hype?
Habebe Member	Thu Jan 27 19:18:02 Sam, I think Russia was sabre rattling and Journalists hyped it up. EU officials and especially Ukrainian officials have both said the US is blowing this out of proportion and sensationalizing this....in not so many words.
Sam Adams Member	Thu Jan 27 20:08:50 Are these faggot journalists going to start world war 3? Theres people that actually listen to those assholes.
jergul large member	Thu Jan 27 20:09:18 This is Russia wanting to pull back troops from east of urals (they have them there by treaty), so it is manufacturing an excuse to do that.
Habebe Member	Fri Jan 28 00:38:20 Actually, I highly recommend you check out the Ukraine/Russia Twitter war...its oddly hilarious http://twi...?t=rQeXnFXbIGLC9S6MBHeZEg&s=19
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Fri Jan 28 01:00:40 He better start a war, he better! I called my parents and told all my friends, Putin better not make me look a fool in front erybody I know.
murder Member	Fri Jan 28 06:53:07 "So is russia actually considering an invasion, or is this(like so many other things) retarded journalist hype?" That's a good question. Lets ask the residents of Crimea.
murder Member	Fri Jan 28 06:55:38 "He better start a war, he better! I called my parents and told all my friends, Putin better not make me look a fool in front erybody I know." If Putin doesn't get security concessions he's going to look like an incel if he just walks away.
jergul large member	Fri Jan 28 08:30:43 Murder Its about completely dismembering the treaty on conventional forces in Europe. Russia is in the process of building up an Army Corps in Kalingrad (that is a force strong enough to steamroll the baltic states on its own). Expect to see permanent bases expanded and built up along the Ukrainian frontier. Russian generals are tired of hanging out east of the Urals. Putin needs to establish a credible enemy, so is underlining the Nato "threat".
jergul large member	Fri Jan 28 08:31:39 Treating Ukraine as a defacto nato member after the Maidan "coup" fits the messaging.
obaminated Member	Fri Jan 28 10:05:30 Ww3 will be fun
Rugian Member	Fri Jan 28 10:30:19 Murder and jergul are the type of people who long to return to the days when everyone was 15 minutes away from potentially firing nukes at each other, because the world was "safer" or some bullshit.
murder Member	Fri Jan 28 10:40:59 Nukes don't keep me up at night. And fuck the Soviets!
Habebe Member	Fri Jan 28 11:01:51 Rugian, Nah, Jergul is just a Soviet romantacist, murder for some reason wants the US in another war where we dont belong. #keep our boys home. Also the other 70 some genders.
murder Member	Fri Jan 28 11:18:34 "murder for some reason wants the US in another war" Habebe for some reason wants the Soviet Union reconstituted and to let them swallow up all of Europe.
Habebe Member	Fri Jan 28 11:21:13 The Soviet Union doesn't keep me up at night. And I'm 100% not for risking US troops/tax money in order to stop it.
Rugian Member	Fri Jan 28 11:24:41 Moreover, Europe has the economic means to build up substantial national armies to defend themselves. If they choose not to do that, that's on them. Russians returning to their spiritual homeland in Kiev doesn't keep me up at night. Global nuclear fallout...well, doesn't keep me up either, but its certainly a much bigger concern to the US.
Habebe Member	Fri Jan 28 12:34:49 Murder, Let me ask you this, how long would you be ok with the US being there and what cost would be too high? Noy limited to $ costs but casualties etc.
murder Member	Fri Jan 28 17:08:00 Exactly where have I proposed "being there"?
Dukhat Member	Fri Jan 28 17:52:21 Cuckservatives were wrong in the 1920's and they're wrong now.
Habebe Member	Fri Jan 28 19:07:08 Murder, So you are opposed to sending troops and only support gifting them aid?
murder Member	Fri Jan 28 19:07:51 I support giving them aid. I also support kicking Russia in the teeth.
Habebe Member	Fri Jan 28 19:38:05 Define kicking them in the teeth...because it sounds like US troops directly involved, but I could be wrong.
murder Member	Fri Jan 28 20:54:15 What I mean by kicking them in the teeth? I mean bombing the fuck out of their troops. I'd hit them anywhere and everywhere. But assuming that others don't have the appetite to go that far, there are easy targets such as the thousands of Russians waiting to get butchered in Syria and any ship they are foolish enough to have outside of their own territorial waters. But if even that is too frightening, we could always take out his allies and puppets like Lukashenko in Belarus and Assad in Syria. We could stretch and stress their army by threatening Russian soil in the Arctic and on the western fringes of their massive country. But we're not going to do any of that or anything else really. We won't even properly arm Ukraine so they have a fighting chance.
murder Member	Fri Jan 28 20:55:55 and on the eastern* fringes of their massive country.
Habebe Member	Fri Jan 28 21:09:08 You not only support directly attacking them but other allied nations in the region. Which would likely lead to greater involvement than just dropping/launching bombs to defend a nation we have no need to defend by treaty or IMHO good cause, the Ukraine just isnt that strategic for the US. Even if it's a policy of containment, it's fucking Russia, not China, it aint that deep.
Habebe Member	Fri Jan 28 21:13:35 China invades Taiwan? Yeah, take an out. But atleast over there the regional powers would support such a move. The Ukraine lacks such support.
murder Member	Fri Jan 28 21:15:04 "... the Ukraine just isnt that strategic for the US." But Russia is.
Habebe Member	Fri Jan 28 21:47:15 Wtf doea that even mean?!
jergul large member	Fri Jan 28 23:18:11 Ruggy and habebe What are you on right now? Nobody wants Ukraine. End of story. So, what is this about? Nato does not want Russia dictating future security arrangements. Fair enough. So, what is Russia trying to achieve? My answer is that Russia wants to justify a force buildup west of the urals mainly because east of the urals sucks and deployment there is bad for recruitment and retention.
jergul large member	Fri Jan 28 23:20:22 Still, an army corps in kalingrad makes it far easier to leverage relevance than one around Novosibirsk. Russia could streamroll a few nato countries before mobilization, so it becomes more relevant from a security perspective.
Habebe Member	Fri Jan 28 23:47:27 Jergul, This is about our federal government blowing this out of proportion and risking military action over what is sabre rattling at most. Even the Ukraine has told the US to chill out, and yet they continue to push for war. My own slug of a Senator is already demanding greater action against Russia. The people here mostly do not want anything to do with such nonsense.
Habebe Member	Fri Jan 28 23:51:35 I suspect my Senators opinions are skewed because of money. http://www...b0-11e9-af24-bb148f51c676.html 1 in 12 jobs are linked to the military in South Carolina.War is big business and Lindsey Graham is a warmonger for profit.
Paramount Member	Sat Jan 29 02:36:15 While the the anti-Russian propaganda in Western media is immense right now, it is getting more and more apparent that this conflict is made-up by the US. The purpose is to stop Nord Stream 2 – to force Europe to buy from the US instead of from someone else. Mafia tactics. - - Ukraine's President Zelensky urges world leaders to tone down rhetoric on threat of war with Russia Kyiv, Ukraine (CNN)Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky said Friday other world leaders have been overstating the likelihood of war between his country and Russia, causing "panic" and destabilizing Kyiv's economy. - - A couple of days ago Joe Biden (or was it Blinken?) was urging/stating the importance of not escalating the conflict. Now Joe Biden is doing the opposite of what he just said, i.e escalating the conflict by sending Nato troops to Eastern Europe.
Paramount Member	Sat Jan 29 02:51:38 UK's Johnson to urge Putin to 'step back' to avoid bloodshed British Prime Minister Boris Johnson will speak to Russian President Vladimir Putin this week, urging him to step back from escalating tensions over Ukraine, Downing Street said Friday. http://afp...ck-to-avoid-bloodshed/a/9K0yXd Lol. Nato is expanding to Russia’s border. US just ordered Nato troops to the Baltic States. And now the UK is urging Russia to step back. Russia is right to have troops at its own border. Perhaps it is Nato who needs to step back?
jergul large member	Sat Jan 29 05:20:15 "The prime minister said that Moscow risked sparking a prolonged conflict that would be a "new Chechnya"." Russia won in Chechnya. Just saying. He is not exactly demotivating Putin.
Habebe Member	Sat Jan 29 11:31:22 I think its telling that Rugian , myself,Paramount and the local nations respective governments are all agreeing that Biden along with warmongering Republicans are in the wrong. Lindsey Graham always pushes war, because its big bussiness.
murder Member	Sat Jan 29 13:35:54 "Even the Ukraine has told the US to chill out" Was that before or after they asked for military aid?
murder Member	Sat Jan 29 13:39:43 "This is about our federal government blowing this out of proportion and risking military action over what is sabre rattling at most." At most. Just like Russia annexing Crimea was about test driving their tanks at most.
Daemon Member	Sat Feb 05 06:21:47 http://twitter.com/Anthony/status/1489760061706711046 “We prepare headlines for many scenarios and the headline “Russia Invades Ukraine” was inadvertently published around 4 p.m. ET today on our website. We deeply regret the error. The headline has been removed and we are investigating the cause.” - Bloomberg
murder Member	Sat Feb 05 11:23:34 "We prepare headlines for many scenarios" That is completely understandable. You can't expect them to come up with "Russia Invades Ukraine" in the heat of the moment.
Habebe Member	Sat Feb 05 11:25:47 Holy shit, Murder can really write! You could be a novelist or an anchor to be able to type that up in the fly.
murder Member	Sat Feb 05 12:12:24 In fairness I had it saved to the clipboard just in case.
Habebe Member	Sat Feb 05 12:43:56 Maybe you could teach a masterclass for Bloomberg journos.
Sam Adams Member	Sat Feb 05 15:51:46 “We prepare headlines for many scenarios and the headline “Russia Invades Ukraine” was inadvertently published around 4 p.m. ET today on our website. We deeply regret the error. The headline has been removed and we are investigating the cause.” - Bloomberg Jesus christ. Those retards actually want to start a war. Journalists need to go.
murder Member	Sat Feb 05 17:20:23 What amazes me is that this practice continues despite people being erroneously reported dead on multiple occasions. The only purpose the practice seems to serve is embarrassing news organizations on the regular.
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