Utopia Talk / Politics / Electoral plot

Habebe Member	Sun Jan 23 15:10:44 Republicans in seven states tried to falsely certify the election in favor of Donald Trump. On Friday, Boris Epshteyn, a Trump adviser, told MSNBC he helped with the fake electors scheme. Epshteyn, alongside Rudy Giuliani, was subpoenaed by the January 6 House select committee last week. A former Trump campaign adviser admitted to playing a role in a scheme to have illegitimate pro-Trump supporters falsely certify the election for him in seven states won by President Joe Biden. MSNBC host Ari Melber asked Boris Epshteyn on Friday if he ever worked on or supported the elector scheme. "Yes, I was part of the process to make sure there were alternate electors for when, as we hoped, the challenges to the seated electors would be heard, and would be successful," Epshteyn said. On Thursday The Washington Post reported that Epshteyn said he'd participated in conference calls with members of Trump's legal team, including Rudy Giuliani, to discuss the electors. The illegitimate electors' plan had Trump supporters in seven states – Arizona, Georgia, Michigan, Nevada, New Mexico, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin – submit documents to Congress falsely claiming Trump won the states despite the majority of votes actually going to Joe Biden, according to documents obtained by the watchdog group American Oversight in March 2021. That plan was included in a six-page memo written by attorney John Eastman detailing a plan for overturning the 2020 election. During his interview with Melber, Epshteyn continued to make false claims about election fraud. He also said he did everything legally, citing Hawaii in the 1960 presidential election as a "precedent" for "alternate" electors being used. CNN reported that in that election, however, Richard Nixon initially had a lead on John F. Kennedy by 141 votes (a narrow margin compared to any state in this previous election). After a legal recount, Nixon lost, and the multiple panels of electors were due to the state changing the outcome following the recount. "So, Ari, everything that was done was done legally by the Trump legal team, according to the rules, and under the leadership of Rudy Giuliani," Epshteyn said. Epshteyn, alongside Guiliani and Trump associates Sidney Powell and Jenna Ellis were subpoenaed by the January 6 House select committee this week. Additionally, several attorneys general from the seven states with illegitimate electors say they're pursuing investigations and charges. http://www...eme/ar-AAT3hrz?ocid=uxbndlbing
tumbleweed the wanderer	Sun Jan 23 15:35:18 "everything that was done was done legally by the Trump legal team" doubtful but certainly not the part where they told Pence to use the alternate electors as evidence of a dispute to then just disregard both sets of electors from those States & prevent Biden from getting to 270, as that would lead to a Trump win w/ the backup method of election
Habebe Member	Sun Jan 23 17:01:04 Legality and morality are different. Enforceability of said laws may be an issue as well with regards to this specific matter. At a glance, I'll admit this looks bad, but im not convinced its illegal. AFAIK its not illegal for an elector to vote any way he chooses federally. State laws vary. But it is grimy. More so than the DNC's shadow campaign? IDK, they both stink IMHO but seem legal.
Habebe Member	Sun Jan 23 17:05:29 Legality is such a low bar for considering morality IMHO, they are not even in the same ballpark.
Habebe Member	Sun Jan 23 17:06:21 What is As I'd motivation for this confession?
tumbleweed the wanderer	Sun Jan 23 17:33:46 the information was already out there, he's trying to put a defense on it they forged docs afaik... i believe 2 of the states noted they weren't the real electors pending lawsuits or something, the rest just purported to be real and it's -in- the Eastman memo for Pence to use them, -not- to wait on legal challenges, merely use the fact they were filed to try to delegitimize the real batch of electors
Habebe Member	Sun Jan 23 19:24:34 Im not saying that is legal, I'm claiming ignorance.I legit am not sure what is legal or not, especially when state laws get mixed in. Forged documents would be illegal AFAIK. But I had always thought Pence didn't have the right to not certify. Then I was watching a show talking about the electoral act of 1800 something or other and it turns out many of the federal laws on certifying an election are constitutionally unenforceable. He noted that the congressman of the time knew it wasn't constitutionally within their power but they felt strong enough to make a federal law on it that is basically a suggestion.
Habebe Member	Sun Jan 23 19:55:56 Is the Electoral Count Act Unconstitutional Vasan Kesavan NCL Rev. 80, 1653, 2001 This Article takes on one of the most unasked questions of Bush v. Gore-whether the Electoral Count Act, the federal statutory scheme at issue in that case, is constitutional. Enacted in 1887 and hardly discussed for the past 114 years, the Electoral Count Act sets forth complicated regulations for counting (and not counting) electoral votes. This Article argues that Section 15 of Title 3 of the United States Code, the heart of the Electoral Count Act, is unconstitutional. Since 1800, Congress has attempted to enact legislation regulating the electoral count, finally succeeding in 1887. This Article traces these principal congressional efforts to regulate the electoral count and the surrounding constitutional text and structure to show why the Electoral Count Act is unconstitutional. The Electoral Count Act may seem like a good statutory scheme to deal with the problems of the electoral count, but not every good statutory scheme is a constitutional one. Some problems may only be remedied by constitutional amendment, not by statute. Anyone who wishes to argue that the Electoral Count Act is constitutional bears a very high burden of proof. http://sch...=gs_qabs&u=%23p%3DW6dHk4bomVQJ Now this is 20 years old.Long before Trump. I found other ways to access it because thise citation wants subscriptions. But I've seen other talks that all seem to say it's likely not constitutional and even claiming they knew this at the time. AFAIK its bever been challenged because it worked to make things easier.
murder Member	Sun Jan 23 22:25:18 "Electoral plot" Treasonous plot
Habebe Member	Sun Jan 23 23:58:13 Remember, remember the 5th of the November! Gunpowder, Treason and Plot!
Habebe Member	Mon Jan 24 15:07:29 Ttt
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