Utopia Talk / Politics / How much LGBTQ is just trendy?

Habebe Member	Sun May 22 13:38:25 So this is coming off Bill Maher saying what everyone was thinking. That atbthe very least there are some people who are doing this because its trendy.....say that on Twitter and wait for the attack of the queers. Now, people experimenting with crazy ideas on parenting is nothing new. Look at the 50s and 60s and you will find allnsortsnof parenting ideas that we now recognize as terrible/crazy.
Rugian Member	Sun May 22 16:54:44 The trendiness is definitely a major aspect of it. Children are literally being taught that it's the "cool" thing to do. To just be a generic boy or girl is boring. But to be LGBT? Wow, you're so brave and unique, and we should celebrate you and lavish attention on you for being different! Is it any wonder that so many kids are now flocking towards identifying as LGBT?
Habebe Member	Sun May 22 17:11:27 http://youtu.be/mMBzfUj5zsg Here isnthe Bill clip I referenced.
murder Member	Sun May 22 17:43:36 You people are retarded. Everything about society pressures boys and girls to behave in certain ways. The very last thing a young male wants is to be perceived as gay or queer in any way ... unless they actually are gay. Gay boys or even effeminate boys get bullied and are shunned. No straight girl wants to be perceived as a dyke or butch. If for no other reason than because they want to seem attractive to boys. I don't know what world you guys live in.
nhill Member	Sun May 22 17:52:17 Murder you went to school 40 years ago, things do change over time.
nhill Member	Sun May 22 17:53:50 There are most definitely social groups where you are more accepted and lauded for being gay. Source: I have 3 teenagers
nhill Member	Sun May 22 17:55:54 Bully a straight kid and kids will be kids. Bully a gay kid and it makes the local news. Many such cases.
Habebe Member	Sun May 22 18:26:56 I think Bills argument is the drastic rationality differences lends tobthe theory that while Gender Dysphoria is real, the drastic uptick in very liberal areas also means alot of them want to be different and receive special attention etc
Habebe Member	Sun May 22 18:27:12 Regionality*
nhill Member	Sun May 22 19:03:33 Don't need any argument when you see it first hand your kids being encouraged to be gay
Habebe Member	Sun May 22 19:29:02 I will say the arguments Ive seen from the far left have been 1. People are just admitting what they are because they otherwise would be fearful to do so. 2. They seem to think that conservatives are literally lurking around every corner to spit on them and murder them, and that parents would beat their kids to death if they said outloud they were lgbtq. They seem to think this is 95% of society and were all out to get them.It was a very strong recurring statement I've seen. 3. The other repeated argument is "Why would anyone do something that would result in them being hurt in all the ways mentioned above" if They were not actually trans or whatnot. If you point out that people have been harming themselves, doing things they later regret or succumb to peer pressure for thousands of years they think you hate them and want to kill them.Its a paranoid victim mentality from my anecdotal experiences.
Cherub Cow Member	Sun May 22 20:40:09 [Habebe]: "That atbthe very least there are some people who are doing this because its trendy.....say that on Twitter and wait for the attack of the queers." Yep. What's funny is that the useful idiots are comparing it to left-handedness (dozens of comments under Maher making this same sad argument). The argument is that society stopped "forcing" left-handed people to write with their right hand, so the percentage of left-handed people normalized just under 12% (e.g., this meme: http://twitter.com/aaronhoyland/status/1527889865529958400 ). Their thinking is that a more "accepting" environment for LGBTQ+NAMBLA simply gives us a more accurate accounting of an already-existent sub-population. But it's a faulty analogy because pretending that society passively allowing children to choose which hand they want to use (resulting in an accurate representation of "natural" left-handedness) does not adequately compare to the massive cultural issue of gender as performance. There is not an imposing push for left-handed pride, a system of indoctrination around left-handedness endorsed by left-handed sycophants, or an entire culture industry for left-handedness wherein left-handedness is given special and elevated status. Left-handedness is mostly treated as a matter-of-fact condition. Incidentally, this "matter-of-fact" status was about how LGB issues were treated in the '90s. After the over-performance of the '80s, in the '90s, it became, "[Like, okay.. you're gay. Or you like acting out and memorizing every line of 'Rocky Horror'? Good for you? You do you.]" There were cultures around "metrosexuality" or "acting gay", but most LGB performance was minimized to Hallmark specials on coming out to conservative parents (the last real issue of LGB people to which they perpetually return as a phantom/StrawMan to justify all actions in a continued war). This was a period of normalization (not to be confused with Yuri Bezmenov’s Steps; I'm using it in a dictionary sense). Incidentally, self-identification stabilized at about 10%. We are post-normalization now. Normalization was not enough for the culture industry's designs, so the next step was "affirming". This is why we see the left's vocabulary of "gender-affirming care" and "affirming LGBTQ+NAMBLA spaces". It is no longer enough to allow people to self-sort — they must be *encouraged* to sort. This bridges the divide between self-directed choice and social manipulation as social control. Everyone has agency, but some people are less capable of recognizing their personal agency versus the imperatives of social conditioning (typically a matter of individualism versus collectivism, where individualistic societies are less susceptible to social controls). Social conditioning pushes more people to accept a behavior than would have accepted that behavior if left to their own devices. In other words, there are now reward systems in place for LGBTQ+NAMBLA. Would Ruby Rose have gotten a million-dollar role in CW's Batwoman if she did not identify as queer? No. She is not a good actress, and even the CW can afford better actors. But the culture industry seeks not just to normalize but to reward the identity status. There exist financial incentives for people to identify as LGBTQ+NAMBLA; e.g., • job opportunities, • tax breaks for businesses which offer "affirming" treatment, • pride parades to encourage people to perform identity, • hormonal treatments to synthetically affect body chemistry, and • other special treatments for people to self-identify — incentives beyond even those of the supposedly "privileged" "cis" group. In other words, LGBTQ+NAMBLA affirmative action has made it more attractive to take on a "protected" intersectional identity, which encourages people to sort into the new paradigm rather than sort entirely based on individual imperatives. And to be a broken record, this is again the slave morality strategy. To now use Bezmenov's Steps, if you force a strong culture to adopt weak moralities and weak statuses as its new "heroes", that culture will degrade itself and become more easily conquered by Marxist rhetoric. A people who are being encouraged to self-select out of the gene pool, to negatively alter their body chemistry through hormonal diets, and take on submissive cultural identities (queer-Marxist identities tend to be submissive to The Party), you have a society that is more easily conquered, since they have effectively conquered themselves before a shot has been fired.
nhill Member	Sun May 22 20:56:47 Jesus you have a talent for using a bunch of words to say nothing. Yes I read every word, I’m sure I read more than anyone here. Would have loved to have you pad my word count in high school.
Sam Adams Member	Sun May 22 23:14:43 "and we should celebrate you and lavish attention on you for being different!" This is indeed correct. "Im special, gibs me attention" is the majority of the left these days.
nhill Member	Sun May 22 23:35:07 It's all daddy issues, not enough attention as a kid
Cherub Cow Member	Mon May 23 00:09:30 [Gas-Lighting Low-IQ Bot]: "Jesus you have a talent for using a bunch of words to say nothing." Oh look, this fucking idiot showing what a fucking idiot he is again. Surprise, surprise. :D "[Hur hur. U seyd werds! i dunt understend werds gud. It merst be dat dah werds dunt mean anything. i just ignore werdz and say low-IQ Twitter hot-take. Hur hur! Points pls!]" lol :D
nhill Member	Mon May 23 00:21:48 Jesus even your insults eat up the word count. Impressive. Also you're terrible at taking compliments. But anyways, already knew u on period more than most. Ever thought of selling your services online?
nhill Member	Mon May 23 00:23:18 There's essay writing service, I know a guy that's as verbose as you (again, that's a compliment) and he makes good money on writing essays for students.
Cherub Cow Member	Mon May 23 00:42:30 [Gas-Lighting Low-IQ Bot]: "Also you're terrible at taking compliments." Lol. Love the gas-lighting by the gas-lighting bot. Now, nhill was "complimenting" me. Yeah fucking right :D This is a "compliment", people: "a bunch of words to say nothing" Lol. :D One thing I love about UP is that the bots do not deviate from their bot-logic. The gas-lighting bot is confined to that particular programming and acts in accordance with it. That is its purpose. It can never rise above that purpose. It is an NPC. A fucking idiot with a small decision-tree. "he makes good money on writing essays for students." That's called cheating, and the students who use those services are pieces of shit. I would not enable pieces of shit to be pieces of shit. I offer editor services, since professional writers often need editors. But, that is credited work, and the writer gets to use the feedback piece-meal to maintain their voice.. whereas a student cheating by having someone write an essay is not crediting; and that student should fail, since that student has failed to exercise his or her mind — the real purpose of the assignment.
nhill Member	Mon May 23 00:44:50 Yep it's a talent. You're good at it, don't sell yourself short. You saying nothing was just a neutral observation. I find it fascinating that you can spin a sentence into a page.
nhill Member	Mon May 23 00:46:41 Meh, 90% of essays schools make you write are pointless anyways. Why exercise futility if you can buy time back and learn more useful things? Cheating...smh who gives a fuck. Degrees are useless anyways, most people with advanced degrees are retarded and I say this as a person with one.
Cherub Cow Member	Mon May 23 01:06:35 [Gas-Lighting Low-IQ Bot]: "Why exercise futility if you can buy time back and learn more useful things?" Wow. I know this isn't a real argument since it's just Low-IQ Bot repeating the arguments of low-IQ people to show UP what it's like to talk to a brick wall, but wow. I mean, imagine being so fucking stupid that you never learned — after years of school — that the reason for writing those essays instead of "[learning] more useful things" is that writing essays forces you to actually digest and understand your words, the words of another, and then make arguments from good faith representations wherein you take arguments into a novel direction. This is why schools do things such as teaching the difference between paraphrases (which introduces error if not done well) and direct quotations (which puts the text plainly in front of the reader who can then see if the meaning were correctly gleaned). I.e., essays force people to *think* — as any intro teacher will point out, it's incorporated into the fucking name: *try*. Whereas, a poorly schooled autodidact will fall into errors for his entire life because he missed these basic lessons and wanted to cut to the payoff of summaries. Even an intelligent mind, without exercise, becomes as brittle as that of a sun-burnt oyster. [Gas-Lighting Low-IQ Bot]: "Cheating...smh who gives a fuck. Degrees are useless anyways, most people with advanced degrees are retarded and I say this as a person with one." More yikes. Now Low-IQ Bot shows that he is an immoral piece of shit as well — justifying cheating. This is the type of person who would say that "college was easy" without realizing that college is as easy as your decisions make it. I.e., did that "easy college" person.. • add honors essays? • increase their credit load? • take multiple majors? • take classes outside of their wheel house? Degrees are only as "useless" as the minds that attained them. Calling one's own degree "useless" is an admission that one's own mind is useless, having failed to improve itself even when given the chance.
nhill Member	Mon May 23 01:23:02 Nah, I self-taught myself software engineer, made a few million, put it in the market and crypto, and retired off dividends & yield farm. I do heavily regret the money wasted on the computer science-ai master degree, could have been a nice bump at the time and accelerated my path significantly. It's okay that you haven't realized your education is worthless yet. These things take time.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Mon May 23 04:31:19 I don’t think there is any future in human editing services, GPT-3 types of AI will do that for you in Microsoft word. Didn’t microsoft but the exclusive license to GPT-3?
murder Member	Mon May 23 07:57:13 I'm perplexed at how a tiny minority is somehow pressuring members of the overwhelming majority to be gay or trans. "2. They seem to think that conservatives are literally lurking around every corner to spit on them and murder them, and that parents would beat their kids to death if they said outloud they were lgbtq." I wonder where they go that idea. It certainly can't be from it actually happening over and over again. I bet all those closeted gay people were just in there because they liked the closet. I bet they also liked not having any rights.
murder Member	Mon May 23 08:04:46 "Would Ruby Rose have gotten a million-dollar role in CW's Batwoman if she did not identify as queer? No. She is not a good actress, and even the CW can afford better actors." Yeah ... bad actors never get roles. ;o) John Wayne was a master thespian. Clint Eastwood had great emotional range. Sylvester Stallone is a chameleon.
nhill Member	Mon May 23 09:26:42 Nim, GPT-3 is a great point, will probably deprecate the word count padding. Don't think it'll be able to research and write essays because although GPT-3 text is good and the individual sentences are indistinguishable from human, you can still usually tell the overall content is AI because it's pretty vapid. But that'd work fine for word count as long as you put in a modicum of effort first.
Habebe Member	Mon May 23 09:37:43 " I wonder where they go that idea." Fake news.
Habebe Member	Mon May 23 09:37:44 " I wonder where they go that idea." Fake news.
murder Member	Mon May 23 10:05:53 Yeah ... because my dad's cousin didn't really grab a knife and go hunting for his son when he found out he was gay. Never mind families shunning their relatives like my sister's best friend was by most of his family when he came out of the closet. Things like that absolutely don't happen at all.
obaminated Member	Mon May 23 19:58:52 Lol, murder thinks gay kids get bullied in 2022.
murder Member	Mon May 23 20:25:09 "Lol, murder thinks gay kids get bullied in 2022." lol the GOP is literally passing laws to erase them and trying to force them into the closet and conversion therapy.
Forwyn Member	Mon May 23 20:43:16 "I'm perplexed at how a tiny minority" Because you're a retard. Woke capitalism that bestows outsized importance on Twitter engagement results in every Fortune 500 and legacy media giant jumping on the bandwagon. You're not the #resistance anymore, no matter how much you cry about cis white males.
Cherub Cow Member	Tue May 24 19:35:59 [Forwyn]: "You're not the #resistance anymore, no matter how much you cry about cis white males." That's what's hilarious to me about these people. They have the full weight of the establishment behind them, but they think that they are some victimized class. I've said it before, but if you're going to support the global-elitist totalitarians, at least have the good faith to realize that they own most of the world and that this victim logic is just them maneuvering their useful idiots. .. [Gas-Lighting Low-IQ Troll-Bot]: "It's okay that you haven't realized your education is worthless yet. These things take time." lol. Another ad hominem stab-in-the-dark by another pathetic UP poster who is so low-IQ that he had to evade every other argument that I made in order to shit out of his eyes and mouth again. :D I love how desperate UP trolls are to throw spaghetti at the wall when they know fuck-all about anyone and are so pathetically lacking in perception that they can't even figure anything out after fucking years of chances to piece anything together XD In other words, you don't know about my education, what I studied, or how I've applied it as a career. You're just *hoping* that you're talking to some standard-fare college kid who got a degree in Pansexual Perversions and is now working at a corporate coffee shop. Meanwhile, in reality, people far smarter than you studied far better and attained far more — you're just too fucking stupid and ignorant to know how small your mind and your worldview are. :D .. [Left-Wing Dogma Bot]: "Yeah ... bad actors never get roles. ;o)" Lulz. Nice misdirection. :D The fun thing about this troll tactic is that it has to ignore that Rose was indeed hired for those specific reasons and that this was stated explicitly by the producers. So, the Dogma Bot's analogy again falls apart with even the tiniest amount of scrutiny. Never change, NPC! :D
nhill Member	Tue May 24 19:37:34 Years of chances? Only been here one year, baby. You're a parody of yourself lmao. I love how desperate UP trolls are to throw spaghetti at the wall when they know fuck-all about anyone and are so pathetically lacking in perception that they can't even figure anything out XD
Habebe Member	Tue May 24 19:39:11 "Yeah ... because my dad's cousin didn't really grab a knife and go hunting for his son when he found out he was gay." Well, you cant let Hispanics have blades, it is known.
Cherub Cow Member	Tue May 24 19:44:35 [Gas-Lighting Low-IQ Troll-Bot]: "Years of chances? Only been here one year, baby. You're a parody of yourself lmao." Lol. Another Low-IQ play by this pathetic shit-stain :D What's hilarious about this is that nhill has to pretend that only his *recent* appearances in these forums count towards his knowledge of the forums and its users. He has to completely disregard his years of on-and-off visits and the fact that he's one of the oldest posters on these forums — he has to ignore that he already admitted that he's been here since roughly 8th grade and that he played the original Utopia at that time ( http://uto...hread=88127&time=1637698879230 ). In other words, being a low-IQ troll, his hot-take has to ignore reality and his own history — a fucking amazing Low-IQ play that relies on yet more gas-lighting to attain even the slightest advantage :D lol XD ... you really have to love it. If he's not just trolling, the monumental idiocy is just precious :D
nhill Member	Tue May 24 19:48:43 You got me. All those years I was studying your posts in secret. ;)
Cherub Cow Member	Tue May 24 20:09:44 [Gas-Lighting Low-IQ Troll-Bot]: "You got me. All those years I was studying your posts in secret. ;)" lol :D I love the constant shifting! Now he moves to the straw man of "studying your posts", when the reality is that we're talking about basic perceptual ability. So, instead of taking responsibility for the former ad hominem flailing and spaghetti-throwing, he'll just pretend that his tendency to sleep-walk through his life is just him not "studying" people. Lulz... "[I swear, I'm not retarded! I just don't learn anything, I don't address actual arguments, I decry education, and I approach every situation with my mind off so as not to take on the burden of thinking — which I abandoned years ago so that I could shuffle effortlessly to the grave!]" Anyways.. this has been a fun diversion. :D I like to give trolls a little bit of the asymmetric attention that they crave just to draw out a good diagnosis and get a good theory of mind from them. I now know that the Gas-Lighting Low-IQ Troll-Bot will never exceed the accomplishments that he has filed away in some decades-old history, like some culturally vacuous parent who can no longer offer anything to the world and thus relinquishes ego powers in hopes that his children can become better people — while ignoring that those children will become even more corrupt than himself due to him having no wisdom or character to share with them.
nhill Member	Tue May 24 20:16:36 Oh shoot, my bad again! I forgot with all your education you lost inference ability and only know how to take things literally. I know you're excited now, so I hate to break it to you... :( ... but I didn't even know you existed all those years. :(
Cherub Cow Member	Tue May 24 20:31:05 lol! :D Okay.. I'll comment just *once* more, then you get the last word — I just thought this one was too hilarious. Such a great lolcow :D [Gas-Lighting Low-IQ Troll-Bot]: "I forgot with all your education you lost inference ability and only know how to take things literally." More gas-lighting from the gas-lighting bot?? My word! :D He once again tries to use Schrödinger's sarcasm, where he gets to make an absurd claim and then retcon its meaning based on how it's received. ("[I wasn't *really* responding to your argument with a straw man — I was just *pretending* to be someone who would use bad-faith sarcasm to respond, when, really, I was making fun of anyone who would say what I said! Didn't you see the winky??]") No one would possibly notice this technique! ;D [Gas-Lighting Low-IQ Troll-Bot]: "... but I didn't even know you existed all those years. :(" lol!! :D This is great in a couple of ways. Firstly, nhill again has to pretend that he never interacted with me multiple times over the course of *years*... meanwhile.. nhill in October of 2020: "I speak for all UGT when I say that we are eternally grateful for you and tumbleweed ... keeping this place alive. Even though its pulse used to be over 9000 and now it's more like 9...your steward(es?)ship is appreciated." ( http://uto...hread=86423&time=1603122160961 ). Lulz... He didn't know I "existed".. except.. in 2020.. he did.. :D But denying his own history for a desperate win is just a repeat tactic. The icing is this: I was pointing out that he lacks the perception to realize what's going on around him... and he responds by pointing out that he didn't notice the very existence of another user... :D Fucking amazing self-destruction :D Okay, the last word is all yours, nhill. :D :D :D
nhill Member	Tue May 24 20:57:25 Thanks, I'll glad take the last word. I'm going to try to be gentle here, as your self-worth is partially defined by the 10 posts or so I made in over a decade. First of all, I'm flattered! I do appreciate the sentiment. But, 2nd of all. And here's the hard part. I did not think about you or know you existed except for seeing you 100s of threads in UGT when I peeked. I really wish I had thought of you now that I look back and see the validation you were getting. Always hate to be the bearer of bad news. :(
Habebe Member	Tue May 24 22:30:26 They often swear this isnt happening to kids. Which is clearly BS. _____ "As the first pediatric center in the country dedicated to the surgical care of transgender patients, we take an interdisciplinary approach from the start to ensure exceptional patient care. Our skilled team includes specialists in plastic surgery, urology, endocrinology, nursing, gender management, and social work, who collaborate to provide a full suite of surgical options for transgender teens and young adults. Our experienced anesthesia team works to provide culturally sensitive care to the gender-diverse community. By partnering with the hospital's nationally recognized Gender Management Service (GeMS), which provides a range of medical options for transgender youth, we help young people with gender identity concerns transfer seamlessly to surgical care if and when they are ready. The Center currently offers vaginoplasty, metoidioplasty, phalloplasty, chest reconstruction, breast augmentation, facial harmonization and other gender affirmation surgeries to eligible patients. We follow the World Professional Association for Transgender Health (WPATH) guidelines to surgically treat people who are stable in their gender identity and have documentation of persistent gender dysphoria. You do not need to be a GeMS patient to have surgery at the Center. Our areas of innovation in gender surgery The Center's setting in an academic medical center means that our clinicians are able to benefit from Boston Children's rich community of scientific and clinical resources. As the Center grows, we hope to further expand our understanding of gender concerns and surgical techniques by leading and participating in various research projects. Our areas of interest include access improvements to gender-affirming surgery, fertility intentions and concerns of transgender young adults, and educational interventions regarding post-surgical self-care." http://www.../center-gender-surgery-program There is a bit more on the site that didn't copy.
earthpig GTFO HOer	Thu May 26 12:32:12 @CC: Fair enough about that other thread being satire. "What was nhill's response?" It's hard to consider you to be engaging in good faith when you conflate NAMBLA/pedos and LGBTQ. It's generally the case that very few people who do that, are acting/speaking/engaging/whatever in good faith. It takes away from your broader point which, I think, is at least interesting to consider. My 2 year old boy has been allowed to pick his own clothing for as long as he's been able to express such preferences. One time he went to his sister's room and picked out a dress. We all (me+wife+2kids) went to the park, as we normally did on Saturday at that point in time. This is of course in the SF Bay Area. Suddenly, from the feedback I got, you'd think I'm fucking dad of the century, that I singlehandedly liberated Europe from the Nazis, because I let my boy wear a dress. I do not think this is entirely related to LGBT issues, however. In general, the positive feedback I get for doing basic nurturing dad stuff is totally silly, wildly disproportionate to the basic dad stuff I'm doing. You like film references, I really resonated with the book Fatherhood, that the film Fatherhood was based on. Obligatory "book is better than film," but if you've only watched the film, that's good enough. "Where's mom?" -- fuck you, I can take care of my kids, including even (shocker) in public, go pester someone else with your presumptions of male parenting incompetence, asshat.
nhill Member	Thu May 26 15:48:04 I find it hilarious that CC has admitted flat out in this thread that she’s one of those self-centered bitches where, when you see her once in 5-10 years, and she assumes your entire life was simply studying her and waiting for that moment. It’s not an uncommon psychosis, many megalomaniacs that consider themselves failed at life have it. That said, despite a few bidirectional jabs, I know there’s the lovable and sane CC we used to know underneath this ivory tower veneer. She’s just very sensitive and I need to be better about remembering that. Used to be you could poke fun at her being verbose, as it is a unique and fascinating talent.
nhill Member	Thu May 26 15:49:47 Or I could, ya know, stop being a complete asshole. I’ve considered that option too.
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