Welcome to the Utopia Forums! Register a new account
The current time is Wed Jul 06 18:18:26 2022

Utopia Talk / Politics / Jan 6th dotardgate hearings II
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Sun Jun 12 13:46:49
feel free to defend Trump here... (see end of last thread for all the items to defend)
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Sun Jun 12 13:49:38
a schedule for future hearings, google for exact times, 10am i believe for the one tomorrow (Monday):

"
Hearing 2, June 13 is aimed at showing “Trump engaged in a massive effort to spread false and fraudulent information” despite the fact that he knew that he had lost the election. Former Fox News staffer Chris Stirewalt will testify.

Hearing 3, June 15 will target Trump’s alleged plot to influence and possibly replace the U.S. Attorney General in order to further false election claims. Set to testify are Jeffrey Rosen, who was then acting attorney general, his deputy Richard Donoghue and Justice Department official Steve Engel. The Post says their testimony will take place in the morning.

Hearing 4 is intended to outline Trump’s efforts to pressure VP Mike Pence to stop the electoral count. There is some indication this hearing will take place Thursday, June 16. Greg Jacob, the former chief counsel to the vice president will reportedly testify.

Hearing 5 June 21 will trace the then-president’s alleged efforts to unduly influence state legislators and election officials. Brad Raffensperger, secretary of state of Georgia and Gabriel Sterling, one his top aides, have been subpoenaed to testify.

Hearings 6 & 7 are meant to detail how “Trump summoned a violent mob and directed them, illegally, to march on the U.S. Capitol” and how he failed to act to stop those same people as they invaded the Capitol building. No date is yet set for these proceedings.

http://dea...online-tv-schedule-1235040755/
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Sun Jun 12 16:30:07
"
Just in: Jan. 6 committee announces witnesses for second hearing tomorrow at 10a ET:
— Ex-Trump campaign manager Bill Stepien
— Ex-Fox News Political Editor Chris Stirewalt
— Attorney Benjamin Ginsberg (Republican election lawyer)
— Ex-US Attorney BJay Pak
— Ex-Philadelphia City Commissioner Al Schmidt"
"

all 5 are republicans... & includes Trump's campaign manager... how unfair to Trump, such an all-Dem narrative...

unclear which all will be RINOs (ie. have a problem w/ the criminal fraud toddler)
Cherub Cow
Member
Sun Jun 12 18:13:44
"(see end of last thread for [the usual Gish Gallop of unsourced misrepresentations])"
#JustPsychosisThings
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Sun Jun 12 18:31:00
unsourced misrepesentations... yeah right

please cite specifically & i'll provide the evidence
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Sun Jun 12 18:35:17
oh & please explain Trump's repeated claims about Pence & what he should do (that continue to this day) if you still ridiculously maintain he wasn't trying to change the election results still on Jan 6th

(that thing you keep dodging...)
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Sun Jun 12 18:58:43
my 'end of last thread' points 1,2,5,6 are just undisputable public facts
much of 3 & 4 as well... though not surprised you don't know any of it as seem very uninformed about what -Trump- said & did, you just apply your own complaints to his cause
Cherub Cow
Member
Sun Jun 12 19:10:43
"(that thing you keep dodging...)"

lol. I love this delusion of yours. This delusion that I'm "dodging" your obvious bad faith insanities. You really are fucking insane. How much peanut butter do you have on your nipples right now?

"unsourced misrepesentations... yeah right"

Correct. No links, just claims with insane assertions — light facts with heavy distortions applied to them. It's par for the course with you. Your mind is gone, and no one can help you. Every counter-claim is met with another series of Gish Gallop psychosis moments. I already imagine you like a Soviet-era farmer who killed his own country under the Bolsheviks, wandering the Urals in hopes of escaping the dark history that he perpetrated, knowing that his best gift to the world is to be forgotten.
murder
Member
Sun Jun 12 19:14:54

"How much peanut butter do you have on your nipples right now?"

All of it if he's doing it right.

obaminated
Member
Sun Jun 12 20:13:09
No one has a need to defend trump. Also no one cares about this. A bunch of morons got excited and did idiotic things together. It wasn't a revolt and it has no lasting impact beyond idiots like you behaving idiotically to get at the orange man.
murder
Member
Sun Jun 12 20:30:59

"it has no lasting impact"

Like hell it doesn't.

tumbleweed
the wanderer
Sun Jun 12 21:23:16
wow, look at all that defense of Trump, and all those examples of what I’m misrepresenting...

so sad the state of truth these days
Habebe
Member
Sun Jun 12 21:23:38
Tulsi Gabbard has called these hearings a sham, and she is way closer to a Democrat than Liz Cheney is to a Republican.

So nah nah nah boo boo.


Does that defeat your narrative? No, No it doesn't. Just because these ppl call themselves Republicans, doesn't it make it any less of a sham.
Habebe
Member
Sun Jun 12 21:25:59
"Sun Jun 12 20:30:59

"it has no lasting impact"

Like hell it doesn't"

Murder still has scars! They raped him relentlessly for hours.He hasnt walked straight since;)
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Sun Jun 12 21:52:25
Liz Cheney was #3 in R leadership (until ousted due to this singular stance)

Tulsi Gabbard has become a Fox News regular (& i haven't seen her smear the content or claims, just saying they should focus on other issues)
murder
Member
Sun Jun 12 22:03:56

"Tulsi Gabbard has called these hearings a sham"

The hell you say!

I am shocked that a Russian asset is out here blocking and tackling for Donald Trump and the traitors who tried to topple our government.

Shocked!

Habebe
Member
Sun Jun 12 22:11:11
Murder, Yeah.... Russian asset....at odds with theblady who helped Russia get 20% of Uzs Uranium mines oh and then getting paid by Russia....hmm
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Sun Jun 12 22:33:26
weird that you accept that Hillary story that is full of holes, yet see nothing to the Trump stuff
Habebe
Member
Sun Jun 12 22:42:49
I know of the holes.

It wasnt just her 4 or 5 other secretaries signed off.

Them money went to her foundation by the same purchaser years later.

Trump aside, it was asinine to call Jill Stein and Tulsi Gabbard Russian assets.If anything a gift to Trump to point out how off her rocker she is with her claims.
murder
Member
Sun Jun 12 22:51:53

"weird that you accept that Hillary story that is full of holes, yet see nothing to the Trump stuff"

Not weird at all.

Cherub Cow
Member
Mon Jun 13 04:22:07
[TDS Bot]: "wow, look at all that defense of Trump, and all those examples of what I’m misrepresenting..."

Lulz. As a recap:

[TDS Bot]: "[Here's a list of unsourced claims about Trump and my heavy editorializing of those unsourced claims! Defend that! Aha!]"
[Anyone rational]: "[None of your claims were sourced. You are building straw man arguments that cannot be countered rationally and using Gish Gallops to further protect those claims with yet more insane and unsourced claims.]"
[TDS Bot]: "[Aha! You failed to defend Trump! Chock up a win for fucking crazy people!]"

lol :D
You totally owned us with your dizzying intellect, TDS Bot.

..
[TDS Bot]: "Liz Cheney was #3 in R leadership (until ousted due to this singular stance)"

Lulz. :D
I even predicted this idiocy in my counter thread. These fucking idiots really think that Cheney is the shining example of the GOP "[being honest for once]".. rather than her being anything other than a war-monger looking for her route to an establishment pay day. Even the DNC propaganda piece "Vice" pointed this out — in fucking **2018**. Oh! My bad. 2018 occurred *after* January 6th, so that movie was "ousting" her because of her January 6th.. wait.. wait.. was 2018 before or after 2021? Wait.... could it be that there was plenty of evidence of Liz Cheney being a piece of shit.. *before* January 6th??? D: D: D:

She's taking her advice from Ol' Daddy War-Profiteer. She knows that the DNC is better for the war business right now, she knows that her family needs to support its war contracts, and the useful idiots who are being told to support more wars that would not have existed under Trump are salivating at the prospect of their own genocide as this plan plays out. These fucking idiots are now supporting genocidal maniacs just to demonstrate a "win" against Trump. Propaganda really can convince these useful idiots to commit any ideological error if it's on behalf of their establishment handlers.
Habebe
Member
Mon Jun 13 07:01:40
"She's taking her advice from Ol' Daddy War-Profiteer"

Darth-Cheney-ius
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Mon Jun 13 13:36:32
so the ignorant bot continues to cite one thing I misrepresented... perhaps afraid I’ll prove it as I can
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Mon Jun 13 13:53:40
—- Hearing #2 ——

Very solid... Trumps campaign manager didn’t show as wife allegedly in labor (so Trumps deal with devil kicked in, or they induced labor in the woman)... however, they still had depo clips for him and some fantastic clips from others

I didn’t expect Stirewalt (Fox News guy fired for correctly calling AZ for Biden) to have much but he did a great job explaining the ‘red mirage’ and how all knew it was coming, plus on why they were able to call AZ - having partnered with others and having a great prediction model that was matching up perfectly, thus able to call AZ (unhighlighted is this also is massive evidence against mass fraud)

Barr though the unexpected star witness with numerous clips from his testimony. Him repeatedly shooting down Trumps wild claims and coming to conclusion Trump detached from reality and not interested in the facts (welcome to the party, pal... that’s been obvious forever)

There were numerous weird bullshit claims Trump making and numerous people telling him why it was nothing, including 3 different people shooting down his GA briefcase claim (a video he tweeted and discussed repeatedly where voiceover claims fraud happening)... it -thoroughly- investigated &disproven, meaning nothing to Trump of course.

Barr also shredding 2000 Mules... both in noting how meaningless the cell phone data was (that is the bulk of the ‘evidence’) but also noting even if it DID establish ballot harvesting, that doesn’t on its own invalidate the votes themselves (as Ben Shapiro also has noted)

There’s also a Donahue guy holding Trumps hand walking through idiotic claim after claim. If people are going to argue Trump legit believe he won, they’ll have to stipulate he’s a mentally ill moron toddler (which is true... I really don’t know if his diseased mind is able to live in reality)

anyway, I highly recommend watching, lots of interesting behind the scenes stuff from the various depo clips (although kargen will prob say ‘nothing new’ as he’s an idiot)

(And if CC found me claiming that Trump was pumping out ridiculous fraud claims despite all who investigated debunking them, this hearing total proof of that...but you won’t watch)
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Mon Jun 13 14:18:35
a take by Jon Turley on Fox (lawyer who often defends Trump)
http://twitter.com/Acyn/status/1536393486760415232

complimenting Barr & saying 'the system worked'... a similar argument as Kellyanne Conway has made

basically going with as Trump failed, there's no issue

just forget what he tried to do as good people stopped him... when else do we do that?
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Mon Jun 13 14:20:31
...well 'good' people in quotes... not going to imply Barr is a great person, just people good relative to Trump (easy hurdle)
obaminated
Member
Mon Jun 13 14:28:18
Lol, murder and tw still use the phrase "Russian asset" unironicially
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Mon Jun 13 14:35:50
i haven't of Tulsi... i have of Trump (though not recently) and while specifying just by definition of 'asset'

he is indistinguishable from a Russian spokesman on all controversies involving Russia (& did so as acting 'president' adding ridiculous amounts of unfitness to it all)

the "why" remains unknown... mental illness or money the most likely options
murder
Member
Mon Jun 13 14:47:26

"Lol, murder and tw still use the phrase "Russian asset" unironicially"

That would only be if I called her a patriot.

tumbleweed
the wanderer
Mon Jun 13 14:48:07
back to Fox & having someone on to compliment Barr

i would bet Fox never showed Trump's childish attacks on Barr after the first hearing (& will hide the presumably heaps more from Trump after this hearing)

they know Barr isn't lying... their efforts to hide Trump's idiocy is so disgusting

they invite Trump on but make sure he only talks about their points of Biden sucking & how Trump (w/ his no ideas) would be fantastic... knowing they will again steer the presidency if the fuckhead elected again
Habebe
Member
Mon Jun 13 16:01:44
"the Kavanaugh assassination would be a major story if he was a tackled charging up the driveway w/ his gun

not arrested after calling the cops on himself"


TW^

Also TW

"basically going with as Trump failed, there's no issue

just forget what he tried to do as good people stopped him... when else do we do that?"
nhill
Member
Mon Jun 13 16:03:18
just on a personal level, I may agree with tw on most stuff regarding trump but I don't trust tw as a source for anything regarding him as it's a pretty clear bias. guaranteed to only report 1 side

for example, I despise trump but admit he did a good job in the middle east
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Mon Jun 13 16:12:48
don't use me as a source (although i can back up everything, if you specify, which CC won't...)... watch the hearings, read Trump's tweets/statements/'truth's, listen to him speak (not counting teleprompter speeches)... yes, he requires a defense, & no one is providing it as there isn't one

---
and 'good people' didn't stop the 'assassin', he stopped himself... but i was saying that fact changes the degree of the story, not that he shouldn't be arrested (he WAS arrested), & not that it wasn't a story ... & Fox has run more 'other outlets are burying story!' tweets/articles than they have about the story itself
nhill
Member
Mon Jun 13 16:45:08
>don't use me as a source

don't worry about that one, your thoughts on trump seem more like a religious crusade and i'm not into religion ;)

but keep fighting that fight, whatever makes you happy
murder
Member
Mon Jun 13 16:56:58

"but i was saying that fact changes the degree of the story, not that he shouldn't be arrested (he WAS arrested)"

And he will be prosecuted, unlike Trump.

tumbleweed
the wanderer
Mon Jun 13 17:38:09
yeah, this would be like the 'assassin' not being arrested, & him then working to replace cops w/ people who agree Kavanaugh should be assassinated, & the news telling people nothing to see there
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Mon Jun 13 18:52:35
here's a "STATEMENT BY PRESIDENT DONALD J. TRUMP" (written in first person, but clearly not written by him)

http://the...22/06/Statement-by-Trump-1.pdf

includes a huge amount of garbage from 2000 Mules which Barr (& others) thoroughly debunked (every time the statement mentions "identified x mules", that's nonsense)

traitor fraud gotta traitor fraud
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Mon Jun 13 18:56:22
...there's been more debunking of 2000 Mules than that, just that in particular was annoying to me :p
murder
Member
Mon Jun 13 19:37:55

No chance he wrote that. It only mentions "Trump" 5 times in 12 pages.

tumbleweed
the wanderer
Mon Jun 13 21:18:53
Hearing 3 is Wednesday at 10am

that one on Trumps efforts to corrupt the DOJ and get them to make false claims for his efforts to change electors... should be another devastating indefensible one
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Tue Jun 14 13:29:16
hearing postponed... next is instead Thursday (June 14th, 10am)

not sure if it will be the hearing #3 or #4 topics (#4 originally was for Thursday)
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Tue Jun 14 13:29:48
...June 16th not 14th
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Tue Jun 14 16:47:16
Thursday will be the hearing #4 topics... (pressure on Pence & the Jan 6th plot using Pence to overturn election... CC should really watch that one as unaware Trump was still trying to get installed)
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Wed Jun 15 22:29:21
ok, so for last hearing, i've seen zero defense of Trump's actions here or anywhere (prove me wrong if Fox had one of -Trump's actions-, not just claims unfair, not hearing other side)

so... Trump was making wild claim after wild claim of fraud (proven), everyone on his team, or those he contacted to apply pressure, let him know they were nonsense (proven), he of course never had any evidence & he continued (proven)


what's the other side to that? are there people out there that confirmed his wild claims that the committee is hiding? so... how did that not make the news?

well, as 'other side', Trump had a long doc put out (link above), with just more wild claims... most debunked IN the hearing, so his 'other side' is just more proof of their point

----------

tomorrow (Thurs) will be the same... his pressure on Pence is proven/public, the reason for it is proven (plans published from both Eastman & Ellis on various methods for Pence to reject votes & lead to installing Trump - they are only applicable to Jan 6th, & include points Trump referenced repeatedly, so definitely what was going on, there is no 'other side' to it)

& Trump's completely predictable response -will- be again that the election stolen & Pence should have done that thing that NO ONE says he was allowed to do yet he continues to this day to say so... and he probably will say (again) that as congress wants to clarify that law, that Pence must've been able to do it... thus the 'other side' will again be proof of the point committee making (& Fox will continue to hide Trump's idiotic defense, & continue to claim we aren't hearing that mythical other side that makes it ok)


& various idiots will claim Trump doesn't need a defense somehow


anyway, tomorrow (Thurs) 1pm is the next hearing & likely will have a lot of additional indefensible info to pile on to what i already noted
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Thu Jun 16 12:35:50
(Hearing 3 ongoing)
looks like Judge Luttig picked the wrong week to quit amphetamines
Habebe
Member
Thu Jun 16 13:43:17
"ok, so for last hearing, i've seen zero defense of Trump's actions here or anywhere"

Kind of the purpose of a show trial, just show one side.

For Republicans in general, its probably smarter strategy tonjust ignore the trial for the most part.Outside of left wing shows, no one seems to care. The market and gas prices seem to get the bulk of the views.

Mayra Flores got a fair bit of attention as well.I mean the first night got covered, not much since then.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Thu Jun 16 13:47:39
“Kind of the purpose of a show trial, just show one side”

and my point is no ‘other side’ being put on by Fox which is acting as his defense team, and what Trump put out in defense is just more proof

there IS no good other side... make up whatever claims you want to justify -Trumps- behavior (not own complaints as CC does about unfair covid changes). Also consider how just deciding Trump won is a ridiculous option in resolving even those complaints.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Thu Jun 16 13:55:16
—- Hearing 3 (at the break) —
going slower as Luttig talks even slower than Barr

less interesting than last one, but if you were unaware of all the public and private pressure being put on Pence by Trump to tamper with Jan 6th process then lots of detail on that

the plot mostly coming from Eastman... to have Pence reject electors outright or send back to states (and other options if you read Eastman and Ellis traitorous strategies). There’s testimony how even Eastman knew it wouldn’t hold up in court but betting on courts refusing to weigh in considering it a political question. And how it was an utterly idiotic theory and all arguments about Jefferson or whatever shot down.

As for the ‘other side’, It would be Eastman (who invoked 5th Amendment over 100 times) so not committees fault ... and for Trump he continues to maintain Pence should’ve done it. Not sure you can find a single member of Congress who agrees, even Hannity didn’t... so again, there IS no ‘other side’ making it ok


Hearing resuming...
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Thu Jun 16 14:26:11
part two is more interesting stuff

apparently Trumps Jan 6th speech originally contained no mention of Pence (as written by an adult, and virtually no one around Trump endorsed that plan), then Trump added in or adlibbed the Pence shit

there’s video of the rioters full of the Pence misinfo, just like the wild mass fraud claims, both things which Trump repeatedly told nonsense, so obviously he incited them

also an email from Eastman saying even he (Eastman) had told Trump eventually that Pence didn’t have that power... but noting how once Trump gets an idea in head he doesnt let go. Definitely true, and definitely making him wholly unfit for office.

Hearing still ongoing... just found the last bit particularly shocking (or should be, but will be ignored by one side just like every other insane thing)
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Thu Jun 16 14:43:06
closing out, includes a WH lawyer telling Eastman on Jan 7th how he’ll need a criminal lawyer (clip that’s been circulating)

Eastman asking for a pardon

A judge believing Trump and Eastman committed crimes by these actions

yeah, it was a big deal, yes Trump needs a defense, but no there isn’t one & thus none will be offered by his defenders, just attacks on hearings themselves (& Trump will continue to lie and undermine to his cult on his cult social media site)
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Thu Jun 16 15:26:19
"I DEMAND EQUAL TIME!!!"
~ fuckhead

i'm sure he meant airtime & not that he would testify, so let me know which of his propaganda channels takes him up on his offer

there's NO reason they wouldn't if there's nothing wrong w/ what he does/says
murder
Member
Thu Jun 16 16:17:57

"I DEMAND EQUAL TIME!!!"

I think he should get 25 to life.

Habebe
Member
Thu Jun 16 16:36:26
Are they acting as his defense? I tend to watch the hill and Breaking points primarily and a little CNN/MSNBC and FOX.

I havnt seen much coverage of it at all. The hill had live coverage, but lastnI checked it only had 58 viewers.

Meanwhile Flores had over 6k, still pretty low.

FOX mostly was bitching aboit gas prices.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Thu Jun 16 16:43:33
"Are they acting as his defense?"

in as much as they can... there IS no defense, so they just smear the committee

'partisan attack, purely political, 'other side' not being shown', etc

please, anyone, provide an 'other side' to all of what Trump did that makes it ok
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Thu Jun 16 16:51:53
here's Rudy claiming it's an extension of Russian collusion & same people who lied about that are lying about that now (including an attack on 'Shifty Schiff' who hasn't even spoken in the hearings):
http://twitter.com/therecount/status/1537543217423466497

what exactly can even be a lie? the witnesses have been Trump's people for the most part, & the documents & texts/emails exist & much was done publicly
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Thu Jun 16 17:34:58
next hearing scheduled for Tuesday, June 21 at 1p ET
Habebe
Member
Thu Jun 16 22:28:24
"please, anyone, provide an 'other side' to all of what Trump did that makes it ok"

Honestly, I have no clue who to beleive. Yeah Trump lies, but why show edited tint snippets f the intent is to show the truth? Why refuse to answer valid FBI questions?

Indont trust Trump to be totally honest. But I also don't trust the committee.

These are some of the same people who gabe US Russiagate.I won't re hash that with you because we habe gone round after round.

But I stay firm in my position that Trump was infinitely more truthful about his links to Russia than the Russia gaters.

Russian alfa bank? Made up.

Russian bounties? Made up from known weak Intel.

Russian collusion? Hoax. Some random Russians (not Putin) made FB posts, how much? 100k worth of ads or something? Yawn.

Russia did not hack ballots.

Hunters laptop Russian interference? Nope its legit.

They cry shit-wolf so much, I honestly don't beleive anything they say without clear full evidence, un edited and transparently presented.

tumbleweed
the wanderer
Thu Jun 16 23:07:14
"I have no clue who to beleive. Yeah Trump lies, but why show edited tint snippets f the intent is to show the truth?"

i don't even know where the mystery is... they show clips as that's how it's done, depositions are hours & hours of questions

Trump was spewing wild bullshit claim of mass fraud over & over... this is public... what's to dispute? it's not like any ever verified

the members of his team & people sent to investigate repeatedly told him there was always nothing to them & yet he continued (still doing it to present)

where do lies come in? do you doubt Barr spoke to him multiple times & explained it was all nonsense (or all the others?) why is that hard to believe, Barr did it publicly too? why -wouldn't- private meetings happen? how could there possibly be hidden proof of his claims that never got told on any news outlets?

that's what Hearing #2 was about

Hearing #3 was him pushing Pence to reject ballots outright or send back to the states, much of the plan relying on the fake electors they made sure were sent in... again no mystery, that definitely happened (& he still claims it should have happened)

we see all the people behind scenes telling him its nonsense... again, why is that hard to believe? why -wouldn't- that have happened? nobody agrees that Pence had that power except Trump & the cultists who believe everything he said... & just common sense suggests he doesn't have that power

there is no mystery here, no need to lie, Trump continues to the present to do everything that they are showing he did
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Thu Jun 16 23:17:35
let me know what you think Trump CAN be not lying about that makes it ok

that his baseless claims of thousands of dead voters, or vans of ballots, etc might be real? he has no evidence & neither does anyone else, but maybe it's true? so can't blame him?

i don't even know what Trump could not be lying about on the Pence plot that defends it

as i keep saying, there IS no 'other side'
Habebe
Member
Fri Jun 17 00:16:45
"I don't even know where the mystery is... they show clips as that's how it's done, depositions are hours & hours of questions"

Its been a year and a half. We have plenty of time.Even letting people see 5-10 minutes of straight questioning, instead from what I seen we would get like 10 seconds. Fucking Tucker gives more context than that.

"Trump was spewing wild bullshit claim of mass fraud over & over... this is public... what's to dispute? it's not like any ever verified"

Yeah, he does that. But it doesn't mean he is wrong.

He gave a speech that seemed pretty tame by current political standards, people took a protest too far, some times seconds after talking to Ray Epps. But this hearing doesn't seem to mention him, no deposition, that's strange.


"where do lies come in? do you doubt Barr spoke to him multiple times & explained it was all nonsense"

What does that prove? That barr didnt beleive him? Ok. I dont beleive 2/3 of it either. I dont beleive 90% of what Clinton says. I don't see the crime here.

"the members of his team & people sent to investigate repeatedly told him there was always nothing to them & yet he continued (still doing it to present)"

Everyone agrees that ethanol inngas is terrible, bad for the environment, bad for mileage, cars etc. And yet Biden pushed forth. That's his right.

So what? How does this prove Trump incited people to storm the Capitol by telling them to act peacefully?

Isn't this whole thing trying to prove Trump intentionally meant for people to storm the Capitol? How does his team disagreeing with him do that? His team IIRC told him not to call illegal immigrants rapists too, didnt stop him. They told him to stop tweeting, he disagreed and chose to beleive himself.

Where is the proof he meant for them to act other than peacefully?

"Fight like hell"? In the context of a political speech thats tame.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Fri Jun 17 00:37:27
"Fucking Tucker gives more context than that"

the clips aren't so short that context can be different (at least on the important stuff), and nothing preventing the witnesses to give context on Fox that changes something

----

"Yeah, he does that. But it doesn't mean he is wrong" & "What does that prove? That barr didnt beleive him? Ok. I dont beleive 2/3 of it either."

he was the fucking 'president', if he's going to say 10,000 dead people voted, machines changed votes, trucks of ballots dumped, he should have MASSIVE evidence before making the claim (not none)... and it isn't just Barr not believing him, it's the Attorney General of the United States who launched an -investigation- into his idiotic claims & found NOTHING. And not just Barr, the US Attorney he pressured, the Sec of State he pressured, Donoghue also of DOJ who investigated claim after claim, & some other member of Trump's own team, all finding NOTHING or explaining to him why Detroit worked how it did or whatever else, yet he continued. Plus there's just the 'red mirage' on election night, -everyone- knowing Dem votes were coming in late, yet him coming out, declaring victory, saying counting should be stopped & implying must be fraud going on.

Trump didn't care at all about what was true (as always), & continuing to present, as we saw w/ him putting out 2000 Mules bullshit (the movie proves zero mules, but notably -even if- it proved everything it claimed rather than nothing, it invalidates ZERO votes as that's not the remedy to ballot harvesting... it doesn't prove they weren't valid votes from legal voters, so zero would be trashed... though again, the movie didn't prove even prove harvesting... at all. He -should- be able to get semi-competent legal advice & know it's bullshit)

-------------

"How does this prove Trump incited people to storm the Capitol"

he kept repeating bullshit that he knew had no evidence & kept getting debunked about mass fraud & about Pence being last chance to save them... & the crowd was repeating his bullshit, so he definitely incited them... BUT that's not my focus... with NO rioting, he's still corrupt as hell by trying to overturn the election fraudulently (the hearing hasn't even gotten to the pressure the DOJ, & all the others)... but just his plot w/ Eastman labeled criminal by more than one judge & other lawyers (including one that defended Trump on impeachment)

-------

you buy into Hillary/Uranium story even though it's an impossibility to be true, & have continued Russia misinfo siding entirely w/ Trump & find the Epps story compelling

you claim you don't know which side to believe on these hearings, when there ISN'T a side put out for Trump by him or anyone else (or at least the side put out by Trump doesn't contradict what's in hearings)

you are fully biased toward Trump / against Dems, whether you realize it or not
Habebe
Member
Fri Jun 17 01:40:58
"the clips aren't so short that context can be different (at least on the important stuff), and nothing preventing the witnesses to give context on Fox that changes something"

Again, from Fox's perspective, why would they give this much airtime? These hearings womt sway anyone's opinion. They are political actors as well, if the want this discredited, the easiest way is to just not give it much airtime, plus, its not sexy, bad for ratings.

Plus, they keep trailing off the point. Nothing Ive seen shows that Trump intentionally sent this group to break the law.

"he was the fucking 'president', if he's going to say 10,000 dead people voted, machines changed votes, trucks of ballots dumped, he should have MASSIVE evidence before making the claim (not none"

Yeah, presidents lie. This wasn't the worst lie either. That probably goes to the WMD shit that got us into a 20 yr war.

"he kept repeating bullshit that he knew had no evidence & kept getting debunked about mass fraud & about Pence being last chance to save them"

Politicians lie like this CONSTANTLY, and you know what? Sometimes it gets out of hand. Do we have trials about Nancy Pelosi supporting BLM? No. Why? She didn't tell them to riot. Did the FBI? Very likley, its kind of their thing.

"you buy into Hillary/Uranium story even though it's an impossibility to be true, & have continued Russia misinfo siding entirely w/ Trump & find the Epps story compelling"

The Hillary Uranium story-I realize there likley wasn't a quid pro quo. But do ppl in power scratch each other's back and barter influence and cash? Yeah, that seems plausible.Is it a crime? I don't think so.

Ray Epps/FBI in general is compelling.

1. Epps is shady as fuck.
2. He LITERALLY incited ppl to breal the law like a dozen times, shouting it as a matter of fact.

But he isnt charged? No deposition?

The FBI a year and half later still have no comment if they had agents/informants there committing crimes and or encouraging others to do so.

They also have a LONG history of similar acts.Even recently with Whitmer.

They can arrest Navarro without even asking Trump to waive executive privelege (as would be the norm)

But they cant ask the FBI if they paid people to riot/encourage a riot? Especially when many people habe been charged, and yet a man on MULTIPLE occasions seen inciting a riot and atkeast once whispering to a man who seconds later tore down a fence doesn't get charged?nonoublic deposition?

Something stinks in the state of Denmark.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Fri Jun 17 11:21:46
"from Fox's perspective, why would they give this much airtime? "

they give it airtime to smear it, they should LOVE to have witnesses come on & say 'they totally misrepresented me!'

-----------------

"Plus, they keep trailing off the point. Nothing Ive seen shows that Trump intentionally sent this group to break the law. "

because there's much more to the point... Trump launched a plot to overturn the election w/ things he knew (or any mentally fit person would know) were false

it's not just lying to the public undermining all faith in elections (which is NOT normal for politicians), but trying to -overturn- based on the lies (NEVER done before, he still hasn't conceded, he still maintains he won with NO evidence of such... 3+ states would need to be overturned, he has zero mass fraud proven in zero states so far, so 0% of the way there... see those zeroes, disprove those zeroes... yet continues to pump out shit pretending it proves something, when it doesn't)

-----------------

i don't want to get into Epps/FBI stuff, we won't get anywhere, & as i noted i barely care about the riot part (although he's definitely why the bulk were there, & a large part of why they were so angry, & the -only- reason they thought Pence could still stop things (NO ONE was else pushing that) & he extremely slow-walked doing anything to help... instead inciting further by attacking Pence while riot already ongoing, which they read out by bullhorn)

but anyway, him trying to overturn the election w/ known bullshit is the bigger deal to me

----------------------

"They can arrest Navarro without even asking Trump to waive executive privelege (as would be the norm)"

completely wrong... the committee can easily have questions that have nothing to do w/ privilege, the norm is the scumbag testifying then exerting privilege on a question by question basis

plus not sure Trump ever has even exerted privilege, his stooges in the past started using a practice of not answering questions on the mere possibility that he would (which also isn't the norm)
murder
Member
Fri Jun 17 11:54:10

There is no privilege for trying to topple the government.

Habebe
Member
Fri Jun 17 12:15:33
"because there's much more to the point... Trump launched a plot to overturn the election w/ things he knew (or any mentally fit person would know) were false"

No that's kind of the point.The rest is legalities.Many things are legal that are shady. I stillmfirmly beleive that Bidens campaign won legally. Were they shafybas fuck? Yeah, much more so than regular campaigns. Colluding with big tech to run "shadow campaigns" and brag about it in Time afterwards.

Legal? Yes. Shady? As fuck.

Do electors get challenged? All the time. Usually by democrats.Legal? Absolutley. Stong potential for abuse? Yeah.

"it's not just lying to the public undermining all faith in elections (which is NOT normal for politicians),"

What percentage of Democrats polled beleived Trump and Russia colluded.to change ballots.sonhe could win in 2016? Was it a similar number to those who now think thenelection was stolen because their guy lost? I think it is.All the while pushed by politicians lieing about it.

I don't know why you keep wanting me to find mass fraud on his behalf. Ive said the election was won legally.Were half way on the same side here.

"plus not sure Trump ever has even exerted privilege"

Navarro has. His claim on Tucker was that he believes that if they want private conversations between him and POTUS, that its privileged, and that its not his but Trumps to waive.

He has filed in court questioning their subpoena power and precedence is on his side, IIRC Eric Holder who didn't respond citing executive privelege. Don't quote me onnholder, I still a little.tired/lazy.

But everyone agrees that this committee is not normal in Iran use of powers.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Fri Jun 17 13:42:16
"Do electors get challenged? All the time. Usually by democrats.Legal? Absolutley"

NOT by the VP... the plans didn't rely on objections from the congress, they knew they didn't have the numbers, it -had- to be Pence, so they made up total bullshit

but that's only part of it, the next hearings will be all the improper pressure Trump putting on various people

-------------

"What percentage of Democrats... All the while pushed by politicians lieing about it."

Hillary conceded the next morning... no campaign to pressure governors, secs of state, legislators to just presume she won, no submitting of fake electors, no plot to have VP reject anything... NONE NONE NONE (& no relentless campaign for the public to believe she won)

------------------

"I don't know why you keep wanting me to find mass fraud on his behalf"

because it's necessary to find Trump remotely fit for office, he hasn't given up, he will NEVER give up, he moves from claim to claim to claim, never noticing or caring that his batting average is 0, & never requiring any amount of evidence for the claims (ridiculously irresponsible, plus he now knows for certain his bullshit is capable of inciting his cult to violence)

if you are acknowledging he should never have been elected & never again, that's good to hear

---------------

"Navarro has"

Navarro has no ability to exert privilege, Trump has to do it. Plus, as i noted, it's not a full blanket that if you ever spoke to Trump on any topic you are now protected against every imaginable topic, he -has- to go testify & can use privilege on relevant non-criminal questions where Trump has exerted privilege
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Fri Jun 17 13:51:32
a blast from the past:

Trump's candidate medical report:
"Mr Trump has had a recent complete medical examination that showed only positive results... his laboratory test results were astonishingly excellent... if elected, Mr Trump I can state unequivocally, will be the healthiest individual ever elected to the presidency"

to which everyone laughed at how childish & idiotic he must be to have released that... well, also a big red flag, as childish & idiotic aren't great qualities for a president

and it demonstrated he didn't care about truth/reality, just presenting his own where he is perfection... medical records aren't meant to be jokes (& he didn't intend it as so, he's just a mentally-ill moron toddler)

& that pattern of his (detached from truth) has remained remarkably consistent
Habebe
Member
Fri Jun 17 14:03:26
VP rights are to be determined in the courts, no? Again seems like legalities and norm breaking. Not illegal.

If Navvarro has no right to exert privelege, than he also has no right to waive it, as he has claimed.Again, eric Holder did the same thing, no arrest.

The committee must get permission to waive privelege from Trump. They never even attempted.
Habebe
Member
Fri Jun 17 14:05:22
They are trying to rush it because they know November is around the corner.

The downside is they have decided to up the ante on subpoena powers that have never been used this way, right before what looks to be the largest Republican victory since Grover Cleveland's midterm, maybe worse.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Fri Jun 17 14:15:56
"VP rights are to be determined in the courts, no?"

no... plus they didn't want it to go to courts as there was no chance of it working, no one can possibly believe the VP (especially one who was on the ticket) has sole authority to validate elector votes certified by states

again, no one was pushing the plot (except Trump)... if it was in the realm of possibility it would've been put out by multiple R senators

it was a last ditch bullshit effort (after trying to interfere at every prior step) to keep hold of power

even Hannity didn't support it, Trump's best buddy

-------------

"he also has no right to waive it"

any privilege argument still makes no difference, he -has- to show & rely on it on a per question basis
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Fri Jun 17 14:26:34
Pence's White House lawyer sparred w/ Eastman (who drafted the plot) repeatedly & testified (under oath) that Eastman had agreed they'd lose 9-0 in Supreme Court but was betting on them invoking 'political question doctrine' where the courts would refuse to hear case

a googled definition of 'political question doctrine':
'Overview. Federal courts will refuse to hear a case if they find that it presents a political question. This doctrine refers to the idea that an issue is so politically charged that federal courts, which are typically viewed as the apolitical branch of government, should not hear the issue'

Eastman knew it was wrong, didn't care & allegedly even eventually told Trump (as did countless others)... Eastman was not a White House lawyer, just some outside crazy recruited by Trump as he offered a plot, just like his entire nutbag team (Giuliani, Sidney Powell, etc)

Eastman is pleading the fifth on everything, so there won't be any 'other side' from him, & also suggests he doesn't have a great defense
(& there IS no other side... try to invent one... it's crazy to believe Pence had that power, crazy)
Habebe
Member
Fri Jun 17 14:28:10
You have an Eric Holder problem with regards to priv.

Its a shitty situation , likely, Navvarro can run out the clock, so they tried to scare him and make headlines. Risky move considering November.Do you have any doubt in your mind Reoublicans will use similar tactics against their political enemies? I dont.

They actually have 5 years, but, no one will care enough by then ti make it worthwhile. This trial is their Hail Mary IMHO.

I dont remember the details about the VPs authority. But its pretty hard to prove intent that is illegal here and to most Americans it comes off as impeachment 3.0


tumbleweed
the wanderer
Fri Jun 17 14:29:23
Eastman's plot also relied on the fake electors submitted as having meaning

how could they possibly have meaning... the Trump team arranged for them to meet & send in their votes as if real, with absolutely NO authority behind it, there wasn't any dispute going on, certification was finalized
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Fri Jun 17 14:33:57
"its pretty hard to prove intent that is illegal here"

i disagree, but even outside criminal conviction, it is completely obvious what he did was insanely corrupt & dangerous & a threat to democracy (& that he's a total fucking lying fraud moron)
Habebe
Member
Fri Jun 17 14:43:09
The difference between me and you boils down to the degree that's its Relative to contemporary politicians.

If it's that bad, let them makentheir case and let thenvoters decide. But they dont want to do that. Time and Time Again Trumps critics try to end run around the ballot box, something they accuse him of now.Time and Time Again they lost and Trump actually gained more support.

Similar to Clinton's impeachment, ans there is no doubt he committed perjury.But people dont care, mtself included.
williamthebastard
Member
Fri Jun 17 15:00:01
Dammit, we were literally this close to the republican VP being murdered by republicans and the POTUS being investigated for having instigated murder of the USVP.
Forwyn
Member
Fri Jun 17 20:19:18
...yeah. If it was a group of doomers with guns, instead of boomers who died of heart attacks from the exertion of shoving and shouting.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Mon Jun 20 21:37:55
next hearing tomorrow (Tuesday) 1pm

the in-person witnesses:
— Rusty Bowers, AZ House Speaker
— Brad Raffensperger, GA Secretary of State
— Gabriel Sterling, GA Secretary of State COO
— Wandrea Moss, former GA election worker

general topic being the pressure Trump put on various election officials & legislators
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Tue Jun 21 12:56:25
— Hearing 4 —

more devastating testimony so far (ongoing)... lots of video on the broad pressure campaign then currently Bowers (AZ house speaker, R, supported Trump) testifying to the repeated pressure from Trump, Giuliani and Eastman, with them offering claims of huge numbers of illegal citizens and dead people voting, saying they have evidence yet never providing

Plus dickbag Eastman telling the resistant Bowers to just change the electors and let the courts figure it out... where we know from last week Eastman secretly hoping courts wouldn’t take it up on ‘political question doctrine’

Trump, Giuliani & Eastman all belong in prison or executed

...hearing continuing
Habebe
Member
Tue Jun 21 13:49:58
The majority party of TX has claimed Biden is an illegitimate potus.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Tue Jun 21 14:16:45
hearing continued with details on the fake electors scheme, with clear indication they knew doing something wrong... one person with plot of having electors hide in the govt building over night to do their fake submission in the proper place next day, and others wanting Trump campaign to agree to paying legal bills if they get charged

Bowers with testimony of the continued regular disgusting harassment at his home, which surely will ramp up again, with Trumps continued no condemnation only instigation

Then hearing moved to Georgia... even more detailed info of what actually happened with the repeatedly pushed bullshit “suitcases of ballots” story/video by Trump & Giuliani... including showing how Trump still pushing it on his call with Raffensperger and at Jan 6th rally even though Bill Barr and others had already told him they thoroughly investigated and found nothing.

Plus more of the bullshit on the ‘perfect call’ with Raffensperger and Trump ignoring that all claims were investigated and his numbers had no basis, Trump threatening him, etc. And Raffensperger detailing some of his harassment received rom the Trump cult.

Now onto a GA election worker who was smeared by team fraud...
Habebe
Member
Tue Jun 21 14:37:08
Serious question.

What makes any of this different from legally gaming the system.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Tue Jun 21 14:37:42
she detailed how her and her mother’s life majorly impacted by the threats and harassment after Trump & Giuliani targeted her (with established bullshit)... so more illustration of the harm caused as well as the continuing threat by all the poll workers who quit out of fear

-end of hearing-

Giuliani has a ton to explain away, Trump a ton to lie about, and Eastman a ton to keep pleading 5th on

and Fox/fraudosphere will just talk about Schiff as he led the questioning... who cares what the testimony was
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Tue Jun 21 14:38:25
“What makes any of this different from legally gaming the system”

it’s not legal
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Tue Jun 21 14:46:43
next hearing Thursday on efforts to get DOJ to lie for them... sounds like the subject of the hearing that got postponed

not sure how anyone can’t be disgusted by the harassment all the witnesses have undergone at their homes, ALL based on lies from one asshole (worse than any SC justice home protests, which I don’t support either)

plus the whole pressure campaign for legislators to just swap electors (citing just mad up bullshit) which would overthrow democracy... kinda concerning too
Habebe
Member
Tue Jun 21 14:50:17
Well if they have no conviction....

But more seriously, people game the system, it happens. Within a legal framework alot of things can be done that are suspect.

We can both agree that TX Republicans getting Libertarians shut out of elections via lawsuits and Dems doing it to Green party in PA. Both were cases of legally going against the spirit of things to win.

Even electors, are not bound to vote for the most elected candidate of the state. Its actually happened before several times, just not enough to change an election.

Gaming the system? Probably.

Illegal? I don't see how.
Habebe
Member
Tue Jun 21 14:53:19
"not sure how anyone can’t be disgusted by the harassment all the witnesses have undergone at their homes, ALL based on lies from one asshole"

Is this recently? Or are you reffering to an ongoing thing since 2020? I wasn't aware.

We do agree on the SCJ protests.Shouldnt be at their family home IMHO.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Tue Jun 21 15:06:03
Bowers said it became a regular expectation on Saturdays, not sure if he specified if it ever ended (& will ramp up again now that he testified)

the GA election worker & mother completely traumatized, afraid to go places, afraid for people to hear their names... & her saying she's gained 60 lbs, the mother moving out of her house for 2 months at FBI's warning

--------

-if- somehow this behavior was legal... they need to write a law for it immediately... AND how about you can still be completely & thoroughly disgusted by the attempt (for example, it's -completely- established that Trump was informed by multiple people who actually investigated that his GA story was bullshit, didn't matter at all... he continued spewing it to the end, there will be no evidence someone investigated & DID find something, we would have heard it)


they tell Raffensperger to find votes, just do it
they tell Bowers to swap electors, just do it
they tell Pence to reject electors, just do it

reminiscent of Ben Stiller:
http://youtu.be/mXojME_NC0U?t=27

all indefensible behavior (& there will continue to be no defense offered)
Habebe
Member
Tue Jun 21 15:23:33
TBH, I mixed up Bowers with Bowser (DC mayor) who btw gets her house protested against for , well 1k different reasons.

Anyway, death threats, we all agree are not kosher. Not sure why the FBI wouldn't prosecute those.

tumbleweed
the wanderer
Tue Jun 21 17:55:21
"
Bret Baier: I want to ask you about the January 6th hearing. Have you learned anything new, is it troubling, and can you support Trump if he runs for president?

Senator Scott: I have not taken the time to watch the hearings... I was in the Senate when it happened so I don't need an education on what happened [idiotic comment]... there's no cross-examination... I think if Trump is the nominee, of course we support him.
"
http://twitter.com/Acyn/status/1539373155491405824

standard 'i didn't see the tweet' behavior

just keep head in the sand as it won't be defensible, there's no cross-examination of Bowers that would make it ok... or of the Pence shit, or of Barr, or anyone else

& there's so much proven confirmation from Trump's public behavior & calls on tape & documents written that it's simply absurd to believe these Trump-supporting Republican witnesses are all just lying their asses off
Habebe
Member
Tue Jun 21 18:10:30
I havnt watched the hearings or 2k mules. Why? My time is valuable. Not keeping my head in the sand.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Tue Jun 21 19:04:58
not talking about you

every R politician should be watching this, & if they want to claim something misrepresented or don't believe something fine

they aren't watching as that's not possible to do... it's all proven to have happened
Habebe
Member
Tue Jun 21 19:49:19
Considering the state of the country, our politicians have better things to do than watch political show trial.

Its kind of a big complaint from people that democrats focus on the wrong things.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Tue Jun 21 20:07:52
you think they were all doing something better?

watch in their free time at night then... this lawless fraud could run again and Scott is saying he’d support him... so learn what a piece of shit traitor criminal he is, it’s kind of important
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Wed Jun 22 11:30:17
"
NEXT HEARING: Thursday, June 23rd at 3:00pm ET

Witnesses:
• Jeffrey A. Rosen, Former Acting Attorney General
• Richard Donoghue, Former Acting Deputy Attorney General
• Steven Engel, Former Assistant Attorney General for the Office of Legal Counsel
"

should be another big one (the attempts to get the DOJ to lie to States in the concerted effort to just change electors)
murder
Member
Wed Jun 22 21:15:54

"this lawless fraud could run again and Scott is saying he’d support him"

You can't possibly still be surprised. Everyone running interference for Trump does so because they support his actions. There are no misguided good guy Republicans.

tumbleweed
the wanderer
Wed Jun 22 22:06:23
it's just so pathetic the consistent pattern of Trump's actions being so indefensible that they know they have to just not look
Habebe
Member
Wed Jun 22 22:21:45
Trump was actually at odds recently with the TX GOP for not allowing the gay Republicans to have a tent.
murder
Member
Wed Jun 22 22:32:26

"it's just so pathetic the consistent pattern of Trump's actions being so indefensible that they know they have to just not look"

They do look. They just claim that they don't just like they always claimed to not know what Trump was tweeting.

tumbleweed
the wanderer
Wed Jun 22 23:00:20
i would bet some are just not looking for their own peace of mind

the only thing i've seen Rudy deny is that he was drunk on election night

the only thing i've seen Trump deny is that he called Pence a wimp (though he then said Pence weak & lacking courage, so basically the definition)

neither of those claims particularly important, they aren't denying the damning stuff that obviously happened & no one offering a defense for (just heads in sand)
show deleted posts
Bookmark and Share