Welcome to the Utopia Forums! Register a new account
The current time is Fri Mar 29 06:39:30 2024

Utopia Talk / Politics / Roe vs Wade overturned
Im better then you
2012 UP Football Champ
Fri Jun 24 09:37:41
To lazy to read it all but basically Fuck court precedeant and fuck your rights if you prego your having that baby whether you want too or not.

http://www...urning-roe-v-wade-pdf-00038117
Rugian
Member
Fri Jun 24 09:41:51
From the decision:

"Abortion presents a profound moral question. The Constitution does not prohibit the citizens of each State from regulating or prohibiting abortion. Roe and Casey arrogated that authority."

This is 1,000% correct. Good ruling, and fuck the idiots like IBTY who think its the Supreme Court's job to legislate from the bench.
Im better then you
2012 UP Football Champ
Fri Jun 24 09:46:43
It's the job of Supreme Court to preserve basic human rights. People have the right to a safe medical procedure. Fuck this ruling written by partisan hacks.
Jesse Malcolm Barack
Member
Fri Jun 24 09:48:04
http://new...s-not-roe-wade-overturned.aspx

Steady 58% of Americans Do Not Want Roe v. Wade Overturned

So the repubs forced this shizz through off Trumps nominations, the guy who tried to steal an election to do something the majority dont want.

all 3 said they wouldnt overturn roe vs wade and support precedence before they were nominated
Rugian
Member
Fri Jun 24 09:49:28
"It's the job of Supreme Court to preserve basic human rights."

Completely incorrect. The job of the Supreme Court is to act as a court of last resort and determine the constitutionality of laws.

Where the hell did you get your civics education?

Also at abortion being a "basic human right." Rofl, no. Murdering unborn children isn't a human right, you evil satanic piece of shit.
Dukhat
Member
Fri Jun 24 09:52:18
The big issue is that Trump never came close to a majority of the vote. So he was able to nominate 3 justices who are going to keep forcing through minority-rule for Evangelical Christian Shariah.

Big reason for dems to run on expanding the courts and unfucking our democracy. Hopefully inflation can get under control so they can win.
Dukhat
Member
Fri Jun 24 09:53:24
Rugian trying to play the moral card is hilarious. Like this piece of shit has ever expressed any morsel of human consideration or empathy for aborted babies. It's simply a political football for him to throw around because he knows his side can't win without appealing to religious nutters.

Rugian
Member
Fri Jun 24 09:55:43
Dukhat the utter hypocrite who moralizes about conservatives lacking empathy, but is completely fine with the literal ongoing genocide of future generations in the womb.

You're probably one of those sick fucks who gets hard from pictures of dead fetuses.
Dukhat
Member
Fri Jun 24 09:55:55
This is a Dred Scott moment for the nation ...
Rugian
Member
Fri Jun 24 10:02:21
Relax. You can still have unlimited abortion access in whatever shitty state you live in.

It'll just be Republican states that will be producing the overwhelming amount of the nation's children from here on out. Women in Democratic states can continue to prioritize meaningless careers and their dogs/cats over starting a family.
Jesse Malcolm Barack
Member
Fri Jun 24 10:06:16
Rugian showing us how repubs think. In the repubs mind women are for having babies and shouldnt be working and having a life instead
obaminated
Member
Fri Jun 24 10:10:18
This is a great day for state rights. This doesn't outlaw abortion. It requires individual states to decide what sort of abortion laws, if any they want. I'm sure cuckhats state will vote for abortion up to 9 months so he has nothing to fear.
Rugian
Member
Fri Jun 24 10:10:58
The problem with leftists like JMB is that they never step back for a minute and realize just how asinine their positions are. "Women wanting to start a family" is actually a bad thing to them. Lmao

Leftist propaganda has seriously warped your mind bro.
Jesse Malcolm Barack
Member
Fri Jun 24 10:11:55
"It requires individual states to decide what sort of"

Funny how you dont cry state rights over guns though dude, why pick and choose over state rights?
Jesse Malcolm Barack
Member
Fri Jun 24 10:14:12
""Women wanting to start a family" is actually a bad thing to them. Lmao"

Why not let them choose? Whys it your decision dude?
Rugian
Member
Fri Jun 24 10:16:11
Sure, they can choose. They can choose to not have sex without contraception.

Why do leftists like you always reduce the concept of "choice" to whether or not a woman can murder an unborn child?
Dukhat
Member
Fri Jun 24 10:23:03
I love me some states rights.

Remember when they were free states and slave states? What a great and glorious time that was for America.
Jesse Malcolm Barack
Member
Fri Jun 24 10:27:05
It's so bizarre that the religious nutjob dude insists every dude and their grandmother should have a gun and argues for the right to shoot someone dead but then says you should have to have someones baby against your will
Rugian
Member
Fri Jun 24 10:29:47
Its almost as if conservatives place a higher value on the life of an innocent child than they do on the life of a scumbag criminal.

Funny, that.
Dukhat
Member
Fri Jun 24 10:31:15
Rugian with the nonsensical logic again. Wannabe Evangelical nutjob.
Jesse Malcolm Barack
Member
Fri Jun 24 10:32:29
Who aborted your baby rugian, was it your sis or someone else? Wanna explain why repubs want to force women to have a rapists baby

http://www...rape-incest-exceptions/629747/

If Roe v. Wade is overturned, 22 states have abortion bans that would quickly become law. Many of those bans contain no exemptions for rape or incest.
Rugian
Member
Fri Jun 24 10:34:40
Do I really have to educate you on the concept of emergency contraception?
Jesse Malcolm Barack
Member
Fri Jun 24 10:40:26
They should be forced to have a rapists or uncles baby cause of contraception are you mad dude?



They are going after contraception next

"Alito’s assertions were undercut by a concurrence by Justice Thomas, who explicitly called for the court to reconsider its rulings striking down state restrictions on contraceptives, state sodomy bans and state prohibitions on same sex marriage."
patom
Member
Fri Jun 24 11:00:54
I'm assuming that all of you that think this is good are men of wealth who won't have to deal with any of the ramifications of an unwanted pregnancy.
Rugian
Member
Fri Jun 24 11:06:03
Patom

"Murder should be legal for the poor" is an...interesting position to take, I grant you.
McKobb
Member
Fri Jun 24 11:27:18
28th Amendment time
Rugian
Member
Fri Jun 24 11:35:18
McKobb

Congratulations on outing yourself as a delusional man living in a media bubble.

There will never be a federal amendment codififying abortion.
patom
Member
Fri Jun 24 11:59:03
Rugian, the new emergency contraception will be to hop on the nearest transport or in your car and drive to a state or country that will allow you to abort your fetus.
That is unless you are among the wealthy or well connected and have a willing OBGYN who will affirm that you have 'Female Problems' that require the medical procedure called a D&C.
RugianLovesTheCock
Member
Fri Jun 24 13:06:01
Holds high moral regards for more cocks to make decisions for women.
Habebe
Member
Fri Jun 24 13:14:29
"Steady 58% of Americans Do Not Want Roe v. Wade Overturned"

This is slightly misleading. When you ask people specific requirements most of America is pretty moderate.

Yes there are extremists in both camps, but when you ask ppl about Roe V Wade its basically a stand in for abortion.

Legally it is not.

If late term abortion was banned and exceptions for rape/incest/health are allowed the vast majority of the US would be ok with that.

"Holds high moral regards for more cocks to make decisions for women."

Ive been told having a cock does not preclude you from being a woman.Men also have babies, so they clearly should have a say.
Habebe
Member
Fri Jun 24 13:16:35
What I find hilarious is that for years I've seen Euros claim the US is extreme in its anti abortion approach. However until today it's been far more extreme than any western Euro nation on permitting abortions.In line with nations like China.
Habebe
Member
Fri Jun 24 13:22:13
"It's so bizarre that the religious nutjob dude insists every dude and their grandmother should have a gun and argues for the right to shoot someone dead but then says you should have to have someones baby against your Will"

1. I consider myself pro abortion.Not pro choice/life. I think we are better off thinning the herd of unwanted children. Probably better if we could just make contraception all free. But they have abortion pills now.

But that's a stretch, most Republicans don't let you even shoot toddlers. Even 12 yr olds are frowned upon. By 14, if they are murdering others, yeah, take them out.
earthpig
GTFO HOer
Fri Jun 24 13:34:41
Guns: One size fits all, federal supremacy, states cannot ignore basic civil rights, individual rights are paramount, extreme stare decisis going back to the 1700s as viewed by our preferred historians.

Abortion: Mah states raights!
Rugian
Member
Fri Jun 24 13:36:03
How many constitutional amendments does abortion have avain? Oh right zero.
earthpig
GTFO HOer
Fri Jun 24 13:38:39
"It'll just be Republican states that will be producing the overwhelming amount of the nation's children from here on out."

That's only going to help if the next 18 years are spent limiting the franchise to only the right (dual meaning there intentional) sorts of people.

Good thing a head start is and has been well underway.
Rugian
Member
Fri Jun 24 13:39:41
I have no idea wtf you're saying.
obaminated
Member
Fri Jun 24 14:17:12
Ep got into grandpa's cough syrup.
earthpig
GTFO HOer
Fri Jun 24 14:29:03
"For that reason, in future cases, we should reconsider all of this Court's substantive due process precedents, including Griswold, Lawrence, and Obergefell."

He wants the Court to reconsider if states ought be allowed to ban adult married couples from buying condoms. OK....
Habebe
Member
Fri Jun 24 14:43:46
We should be pushing free contraceptives of all kinds, including he morning after pill (only $50 anyway, its been a while)

We know the strong ties of crime and unwanted children. This needs to be mitigated immediately or we will have Republican states start looking like Chicago.
murder
Member
Fri Jun 24 15:00:21

"He wants the Court to reconsider if states ought be allowed to ban adult married couples from buying condoms. OK...."

Republicans want to strip women of their rights and make them subject to the will of first their fathers and then their husbands, they want blacks back in the field under the whip, they want other people of color deported or exterminated, and they want gays back in the closet and terrorized.

No one can be surprised.

earthpig
GTFO HOer
Fri Jun 24 15:01:20
"I have no idea wtf you're saying."

I'm unsure if it would reflect more poorly on you if that were the truth, or if that wasn't the truth.
murder
Member
Fri Jun 24 15:05:51

Welcome to US Afghanistan.



earthpig
GTFO HOer
Fri Jun 24 15:27:40
California has never repealed Prop 8, which banned gay marriage. It's still the on the books, but unenforceable. The supreme court ruling made it moot, and of course we all know that there's stare decisis, so there wasn't a reason to take it off the books.

If Obergefell was overturned, as Thomas indicated he wishes to do, would that cause CA Prop 8 to kick back in, and void all existing same-sex marriages in California?
murder
Member
Fri Jun 24 15:40:55

Yes it would. But I wouldn't worry about it, because this is only the beginning. The "states rights" thing has always been bad faith bullshit. The slavers always wanted slavery in every state, and the white Christian nationalists are not going to be OK with gay marriage or gay anything in any state.

This is boiling the frog.

Dukhat
Member
Fri Jun 24 16:02:03
Sad thing is, Republicans are not going to suffer this year because of inflation. And in the medium run they might be trapped anyways because red states are going to get more red with young people fleeing them in even greater numbers now.

Republicans aren't going to care until a big state like Texas or Florida comes off the table and even then, their lock on the midwest grows stronger with Ohio and Iowa becoming red states.

Fuck the electoral college.
Sam Adams
Member
Fri Jun 24 16:21:59
So the big problem with this ruling is a few justices lied about it to get confirmed.
Habebe
Member
Fri Jun 24 16:54:29
IDK if young people are moving out of red states. I do know they are leaving cities at rates akin to baby boomers and heading to the burbs.

Sam, No, they didn't. What they did was not say anything. All justices basically refuse to answer any real questions.

On a legal basis, it makes sense. If the constitution preserves the right to abortion, it would also allow us to freely shoot heroin.The right would be the same source.

But they chose to only apply it to abortions and nothing else.
murder
Member
Fri Jun 24 17:27:24

"So the big problem with this ruling is a few justices lied about it to get confirmed."

The big problem is that the court is once again being used to oppress portions of the population.

obaminated
Member
Fri Jun 24 17:37:49
18 states have outlawed abortion with 6 more getting ready to enact either a ban on restrictions. If abortionists want to change the law they'll have to do it democratically, not relying on activist judges to create laws for them.
murder
Member
Fri Jun 24 17:49:27

"If abortionists want to change the law they'll have to do it democratically"

By "democratically" you mean with supermajorities, right?

Because Republicans have been governing from the minority for decades now.

kargen
Member
Fri Jun 24 18:27:38
This was about states rights. Now the states get to decide how they want to handle abortions as they should have been allowed this entire time. Roe v Wade was a bad decision and even Ruth said it was passed on bad law when she offered an opinion. That is why she asked the congress to do something. She knew Roe V Wade couldn't pass constitutional scrutiny.

"For that reason, in future cases, we should reconsider all of this Court's substantive due process precedents, including Griswold, Lawrence, and Obergefell."

Something congress should pay attention to and act. He is correct that those rulings were based on bad law. They were argued as right to privacy issues. He isn't saying gay marriage should be banned. He is saying the ruling as written needs to be looked at.

Just like the decision today didn't outlaw abortions. For most the country this ruling will mean no changes for them at all in any way. For some abortions laws could become more restrictive. Remember though the case that took this to the Supreme Court this time actually is more lenient than most European abortion laws.
murder
Member
Fri Jun 24 18:58:56

"This was about states rights."

Yeah that's bullshit. "States rights" are cover for the American Taliban doing whatever the fuck they want to ... just like they just turned psychos with guns loose on New York.

Rugian
Member
Fri Jun 24 19:09:01
murder is such a jack-booted authoritarian. If he doesn't get his way on a certain policy, he wants to just ignore checks and balances and our system of government in order to force it through anyway.

Thank god murder is not in a position of power. He's a would-be strongman.
RugianLovesTheCock
Member
Fri Jun 24 19:14:53
^says the guy who supported the cockfest on jan 6.
Rugian
Member
Fri Jun 24 19:15:35
Anyway, the reactions of each side (and I include the people who have posted in this thread) are quite revealing.

Conservatives: Good, abortion is a political and moral issue to be decided by the people and their legislatures; constitutionally, courts should have nothing to do with setting abortion policy.

Liberals: WHO CARES ABOUT THE RULE OF LAW, WE LIKE ABORTIONS SO THAT MEANS ROE WAS GOOD REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

You on the left should be ashamed of yourselves.
Y2A
Member
Fri Jun 24 20:14:44
Damn, crime is going to suck in like 15-20 years. Enjoy the good times while it lasts boys.

Also, when it comes to policy strategy

Republicans = 90s Bulls

Democrats = 90s Clippers
Habebe
Member
Fri Jun 24 20:17:35
"just like they just turned psychos with guns loose on New York."

Wasn't it liberals who literally just released Hinkley? Aka the guy who shot at Reagan.
Y2A
Member
Fri Jun 24 20:18:44
Mitch McConnell = the Jordan of policy strategy
kargen
Member
Fri Jun 24 23:02:24
"just like they just turned psychos with guns loose on New York."

No person with a conceal and carry permit has committed mass homicide. You will find very few criminals that have conceal and carry permits.

You know what people who have permits will sometimes do?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3Qd7lRToLw
Sam Adams
Member
Sat Jun 25 00:54:08
"Damn, crime is going to suck in like 15-20"

Yup. Although medicine abortion is way more common now, and could cover most abortions.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Sat Jun 25 01:08:21
a 'do-it-yourself' youtube probably would do well
obaminated
Member
Sat Jun 25 01:54:25
Trying to pass laws via the ballot box fucking sucks. Best pack the court and hope the other side doesn't do the same 8 years. Long term thinking.
jergul
large member
Sat Jun 25 01:57:32
The court actually overturned the principle of precedent. A lesser ruling discarding the argument that limits before viability are unconstitutional would have met the case at hand.

Instead, the court went wider and disgarded precedent as a guiding principle. 5 of 6 in total USSC justices appointed against roe since 1973 stood for this.

So now, anything can happen. Are blacks human? Who knows how the USSC will rule on that now.
jergul
large member
Sat Jun 25 01:58:38
Divergence. At what point is the US no longer part of the Western world?
obaminated
Member
Sat Jun 25 02:04:20
Jergul. You aren't part of the western world.
jergul
large member
Sat Jun 25 02:05:29
One question. Do you believe in Jesus Christ as your personal saviour?

Answer yes to leave the Western world.
jergul
large member
Sat Jun 25 02:08:20
That is the great mistake we made. We generalized from our great aunts and village idiots that believed that to be true to include a single nation under God where most morons believe it with a sincerity they are willing to true.

Moral of story. What is ok for great aunts and village idiots is not ok for a nuclear superpower.
jergul
large member
Sat Jun 25 02:09:03
willing to kill for*
Habebe
Member
Sat Jun 25 03:59:54
"So now, anything can happen. Are blacks human? Who knows how the USSC will rule on that now."

Not to nit pick but the question was person/people, not human. A human fetus for example is undeniably human, but its personhood is debated.

I would also point out that the precedent set that blacks were 2/3 of a person was overturned, so precedent can be overturned as it has over 230 times that the USSC has overturned its own precedent.
Seb
Member
Sat Jun 25 04:13:58
Rugian:

"Adultery is a political and moral issue to be decided by the people and their legislature"

Political just means some people think state power should be used to enforce a rule on the population.

And before the whole "it's murder" bullshit, the court did not rule that at all. If the court found fetuses are people then it would not be a states right issue.

Seb
Member
Sat Jun 25 04:17:04
Jergul:

Franco's Italy was considered Western.

I think it's more at what point we cease to consider the US part of the free world through democratic deficits and divergences on civil and human rights record.
patom
Member
Sat Jun 25 05:54:49
So jergul, how many people have been slaughtered in religious wars in the name of one god or another in Europe over the last 5 centuries vs. how many have been slaughtered in the name of a god in North America?
Habebe
Member
Sat Jun 25 07:08:38
Seb, Realistically its just that western Europe and the US largely view human rights differently.

Most of W. Europe is extremely* more restrictive on abortion than much of the US. And a week ago it was all of the US.

Macron calling abortion a fundamental right, and yet it's banned after 14 weeks, meaning the. majority of the pregnancy.

Trudeau calling this horrific, but was cool with banning ppl from working and stealing their kids because they honked as a protest.


Jesse Malcolm Barack
Member
Sat Jun 25 07:14:09
Dude why do you lie with every breath

"W. Europe is extremely* more restrictive on abortion than much of the US"

http://khn...ns-even-for-rape-incest-cases/

Louisiana Trigger Bill Criminalizes Abortions Even For Rape, Incest Cases
Habebe
Member
Sat Jun 25 07:39:25
Jesse, Are you really this dumb or do you work at it.

You realize that most of W. Europe bans abortion after 12-14 weeks.

Malta entirely bans it.

Italy defect bans it.

Ireland in 2018 just made it legal only in cases of threat to health.
Habebe
Member
Sat Jun 25 07:40:12
Louisianna is extreme. Its also not "much of the US" its a small minority.
Seb
Member
Sat Jun 25 07:41:37
Habebe:

Yes, much like how Europe and Iran view Human rights differently.

In France, you can get an abortion after 14 weeks, you just need doctors approval.

There are US states that have banned abortion even for health reasons.

In any case, it's less about abortion itself, more about what the EU would call "rule of law issues".


Habebe
Member
Sat Jun 25 07:44:57
"There are US states that have banned abortion even for health reasons."

Much like the EU.Ireland a few years ago just allowed it for health reasons.Malta still bans it.
Seb
Member
Sat Jun 25 07:44:57
Essentially you have developed something equivalent in judiciary to Putin's "managed democracy". The level of political rigging of the judiciary is such you can't really can it independent any more. Its the same issue the EU has with Hungary where it's essentially viewed as not fit to be a member, and floating somewhere closer to Turkey & Russia than Europe in terms of democratic values, though there are no real ways to eject it.

If the US was an EU member, it would not meet the required standards for judicial independence and be facing the "rule of law" sanctions.
Habebe
Member
Sat Jun 25 07:46:52
Yes...we are Putin land....

Well atleast everyone isnt a Hitler anymore.
Habebe
Member
Sat Jun 25 07:56:30
Germany actually completely bans abortion. For first trimester the punishment is counseling and mental treatment.
patom
Member
Sat Jun 25 08:10:10
We couldn't implement mental treatment in the USA. It isn't available or affordable for the vast majority of women.
Habebe
Member
Sat Jun 25 08:16:11
Patom, Stop watching cnn.
patom
Member
Sat Jun 25 08:39:05
http://www...tion-very-sad-today-1819579436
OsamaIsDaWorstPresid
Member
Sat Jun 25 08:43:52
patom needes 2 watches moer of da grate man tuker http://www...ase-horrified-return-democracy

we r da demcrasie 1nce agein
Seb
Member
Sat Jun 25 08:47:15
Habebe:

Abortion in Germany remains technically illegal, though women and doctors do not face penalties if the pregnancy poses a health risk, in the case of rape, or if the abortion is carried out within the first 12 weeks of pregnancy and after mandatory counselling.

They scraped the law banning advertising last week.
Seb
Member
Sat Jun 25 08:48:03
"Yes...we are Putin land...."

I prefer Ameristan.
Habebe
Member
Sat Jun 25 09:03:26
Mandatory* psych treatment is a oenalty. Its a mild one. Otherwise it would be optional.

N. Ireland would probably ban abortion as well, but your still colonising them.
Seb
Member
Sat Jun 25 09:14:50
Habebe:

Counseling isn't psych treatment.


"N. Ireland would probably ban abortion"

68% of the population wanted it decriminalised, and it was really just the dup blocking changes to the law using mechanisms that wouldn't exist without the constitutional arrangements of the GFA.

Which country are you going to lie about next?
Sam Adams
Member
Sat Jun 25 09:34:59
"Abortion in Germany remains technically illegal, though women and doctors do not face penalties if the pregnancy poses a health risk, in the case of rape, or if the abortion is carried out within the first 12 weeks of pregnancy and after mandatory counselling."

So germany sounds kindof like one of our retard southern states.
Habebe
Member
Sat Jun 25 09:39:40
Seb, Is it mandatory? If so, thats a penalty.

Are you not colonising part of Ireland?

You can sit here and say "well this technically yadda yadda" twist it anyway you like. The EU/W.Europe has even now has more restrictive laws than a large portion of the US.
.Yes, southern states are generally the exception now. Where they have a tendency to jave more restrictive.

Again france bans it after 14 weeks and its one of the most lienient.

Is it permitted with soecialndr. Permission? Yes.

Methamphetamine is also allowed with special Dr. Permission in many places, doesn't mean it's not banned
Habebe
Member
Sat Jun 25 09:40:16
"So germany sounds kindof like one of our retard southern states."

That's fair.
Habebe
Member
Sat Jun 25 09:42:36
In N. Ireland its banned after inly 12 weeks. Sonfar more restrictive than most US states.

Personally I think Frances and generally W. Europe's regulations are what I would prefer. 14 weeks sounds like a compromise.
jergul
large member
Sat Jun 25 14:19:58
Seb
West is just shorthand for egalitarian, liberal democratic values found in select countries.

You prolly meant Franco's Spain :D
jergul
large member
Sat Jun 25 14:22:58
Patom
Yepp, exactly. secularization of society is a key aspect of western values.

The crazy things the fundies do is simply incompatible. Thankfully, they are easily identifiable as they have tenants of faith we can just ask about.

The challenge then is just separating the great aunts and village idiots from the dangerous.
obaminated
Member
Sat Jun 25 17:20:46
It is a very harsh reality for the left to come to the realization that the policies they want to impose must be passed democratically. It's actually hilarious to watch their meltdown over that reality. They'll need a safe space. Also they should speak to their dad about their mental problems.
murder
Member
Sat Jun 25 17:25:05

Women should arm themselves and stand their ground.

Habebe
Member
Sun Jun 26 04:43:36
Ironically, Jane Roe later in life not only admitted she lied about being raped but said that being the plaintiff in Roe V Wade was the worst thing she ever did.

Maybe she will take this as a blessing. Although she is probably dead.
Habebe
Member
Sun Jun 26 04:45:05
Norma Leah Nelson McCorvey died in 2017, yup she's dead. And likley voted for Trump as her last sct of repentance.
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Sun Jun 26 05:40:59
I thought social darwinism was a no no and here people are merrily lifting up the disparities in abortion rates between poor and rich women, as a greater social good. Same people who are against capital punishment.

It’s different when we do it!
show deleted posts
Bookmark and Share