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Utopia Talk / Politics / FBI V Trump 2: The Saga continues
Habebe
Member
Wed Aug 10 20:04:05
This will likely be an ongoing spiele.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Wed Aug 10 20:34:34
“But this isn't that its pointing out he lucks oreos and booze, which seems fine to me. “

it’s showing his name and photo, plus implying entirely political and thus corrupt (which is being done massively across the fraudosphere, my twitter feed is more disgusting than ever)

there is absolutely no reason for that Fox piece, and no evidence at all for their speculations... whereas it’s not hard at all to imagine Trump wouldn’t honor a subpoena and thus require a warrant (it’s easy if you try)
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Wed Aug 10 20:42:23
I doubt the Fox shows that people watch will even mention the informant news as hurts their narrative spun from nothing

although Marge has decided any informants are traitors and working to frame Trump so maybe Fox will go that route too:
http://twi...tatus/1557540327183073285?s=21
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Wed Aug 10 22:57:40
"Dan Bongino calls for next US president to fire everyone involved in FBI raid of Trump's Florida estate"
(Fox tweet & article)

...w/ zero evidence of wrong-doing by them
Jesse Malcolm Barack
Member
Wed Aug 10 23:26:07
"military expert Igor Korotchenko openly called for Russia to support Trump’s candidacy in the 2024 elections."

http://uk....ntrum-spectacle-200143962.html

The FBI raid on former U.S. President Donald J. Trump’s Mar-a-Lago residence in Florida triggered shockwaves across Russia, with outraged Kremlin propagandists rushing to defend their favorite American president and going so far as to predict that the raid will eventually spark a civil war in the United States.

When Trump lost the last presidential election to Joe Biden, experts and pundits in Moscow worried out loud that his prosecution for a bevy of potential offenses is imminent. They even contemplated offering their beloved “Trumpushka” asylum in Russia

military expert Igor Korotchenko openly called for Russia to support Trump’s candidacy in the 2024 elections.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Thu Aug 11 01:14:51
i'll go out on a limb & say they'll definitely support him, with a million % certainty
Habebe
Member
Thu Aug 11 09:25:34
"it’s showing his name and photo, plus implying entirely political and thus corrupt"

He is a federal judge in a major case. They didnt post his orivate address, if they did IMHO they would be wrong.

Compare that to democrats fully supporting people paying to spot justice Kavanaugh in public and stalking him after some guy went to his house to kill him.

Now, while I generally disagree with Bongino because we both agree the man is nuts and often is full of shit, I really don't see why we shouldn't downsize all sort of federal orgs. I see no good purpose to have an FBI at all, its done more harm than good.

Not really big on the DOE or the FDA or the IRS either to be honest.
Jesse Malcolm Barack
Member
Thu Aug 11 09:31:10
"I see no good purpose to have an FBI at all"

Dude you are literally just a FoxNews robot at this point
Jesse Malcolm Barack
Member
Thu Aug 11 09:31:45
Repubs are now for defunding law enforcement just because their giant frauds being investigated
Habebe
Member
Thu Aug 11 09:36:57
I've been against the FBI for a long time now. Nothing new.

TW can attest to my long standing dislike of the FBI.
Habebe
Member
Thu Aug 11 09:38:42
Ans you still have not admitted you just made up that Trump was given the affidavit.

You listen to far left news and repeat it without comprehending it.

Unless you now have evidence that he was given the affidavit.
Jesse Malcolm Barack
Member
Thu Aug 11 10:59:04
I didnt read your whole post because you constantly lie and spam fox news talking points that are already debunked

Fox lies said Trump wasn't given the warrant (lie), the affidavit is gonna be under seal cause the subject of the warrant is trump stealing top secret classified files

of course your lot wanna know who the dude from trumpes inner circle was so you can send him death threats etc and not cause you have a real interest in what he did. trump can appeal the affidavit being under seal if he wants

Trumps refusing to give anyone a copy of the warrant or list of what was taken cause the FBI removed papers he shouldnt have had and he knows the warrant makes him look bad
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Thu Aug 11 11:52:16
"TW can attest..."
yeah, Habebe distrusts the FBI

-----------
advice from Trump cultist (& guy who made the worthless '2000 Mules', entirely speculative movie)

Dinesh Dsouza:
"Until we have a new and reformed FBI, every conscientious citizen should consider jury nullification if you’re on a jury. Don’t say you’re doing it. Just do it. It’s legal, and you’re advancing the cause of justice by thwarting the largest crime syndicate in the country"
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Thu Aug 11 12:08:26
there's a continuing steady stream of baseless tweet smears on the FBI, but this one kinda funny:

Fox News:
"Hunter Biden laptop repairman rips DOJ's 'blatant double standard' after Trump raid: 'He's beyond reproach'"
(apparently even having him on as a guest to share his knowledge of...?)
http://twitter.com/FoxNews/status/1557704647921614849
williamthebastard
Member
Thu Aug 11 12:39:26
For gods sake people, theres an girl in ceder springs ohio whos demanding public lavatories for transgender hamsters, and all you fuckers care about is a president trying to get a lynch mob to hang his VP and destroy democracy
Jesse Malcolm Barack
Member
Thu Aug 11 14:16:04
Oh man looks like the AG giving a statement now to try to put a stop to foxnews lying and setting the MAGA terrorists loose on law enforcement

DOJ requesting the warrant and property list be made public cause lying Trump wont let anyone see it and fox is just making shizz up with endless lies
kargen
Member
Thu Aug 11 14:30:33
I'm a bit behind on this because I haven't had time to do much reading today but earlier I did read one of Trumps lawyers saying they were shown the warrant and a list of things taken but were not allowed to keep a copy. THey could only read it and then give it back.
The list according to the lawyer was very vague. It had boxes listed but no details of what was in the boxes.

Did read one other article claiming Trump has been cooperating with a subpoena request for over a year. I don't believe that. Thirty boxes of paper should take an afternoon to turn over. They should have been turned over to a judge so that both sides could then go through arbitration to decide what belongs in the archive and what Trump could keep.
The problem we have here is both sides notoriously lie and neither side is willing to show proof of their claims.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Thu Aug 11 15:14:47
"The problem we have here is both sides notoriously lie neither side is willing to show proof of their claims"

one side lies more notoriously, and as JMB noted, Garland has filed to have the warrant unsealed (they can't just release it)... Trump can try to stop it, so we'll see it unless he hides it
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Thu Aug 11 16:13:03
"It doesn’t really matter what Garland says, no one on either side will believe him."
~ Laura Ingraham

what the fuck happened to that whole side... one obvious fraud completely corrupted them all...
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Thu Aug 11 16:15:11
"The FBI is TOTALLY CORRUPTED! Now we know they had a “mole” imbedded at Mar-A-Lago to spy on a former President in his home. We are in trouble! Our own government has turned on us!!"
~ Ronny Jackson (congressman)

an informant is not a mole...
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Thu Aug 11 16:49:04
It would be quite hilarious if Trump became the victim of something the Bible of all books warned people about:

Ecclesiastes 10:8: '"He who digs a pit will fall into it"'
williamthebastard
Member
Thu Aug 11 17:38:03
""It doesn’t really matter what Garland says, no one on either side will believe him."
~ Laura Ingraham"

Tens of millions of americans would rather start killing other americans than face the hard truth that they were conned.
kargen
Member
Thu Aug 11 18:10:24
"one side lies more notoriously"

bet we disagree who.

Garland says he filed to have the warrant unsealed. Thing is there was already an official request made through freedom of information so this was happening anyway. As it turns out more people are concerned with the affidavit because it gives the reason for the warrant. That isn't planned to be released.

And the AG told us the FBI agents are patriots. We know from the past they believe Trump to be one of the most serious threats to the country. So what patriot wouldn't circumvent the law to take out someone they see as pure evil?
When the FBI gets an agenda they are not to be trusted and they most definitely have had an anti-Trump agenda for a long while now. They wouldn't even answer questions on their involvement in January 6.
Jesse Malcolm Barack
Member
Thu Aug 11 18:13:55
"more people are concerned with the affidavit because it gives the reason for the warrant"

Dude you know that can't be publicly released just because a MAGA screams for it cause it would lead to the case being thrown out of court.

That shizz is made available when someone is charged

Trump seems to be blocking the release of the warrant why do you think he wont block the release of the affidavit?
kargen
Member
Thu Aug 11 18:41:38
Yeah I know that. Doesn't mean people are not concerned about what is in it and would like to actually see the reasons for the warrant.

Who knows with Trump on the release. He likes playing games. Part of the reason I didn't like him as president and why I don't want him to run again. Even if it helps him he won't give anything away.
murder
Member
Thu Aug 11 19:44:47

"As it turns out more people are concerned with the affidavit because it gives the reason for the warrant."

No most people aren't. Only MAGAts that want the witness identified so they can intimidate/menace/kill him/her or their family.

murder
Member
Thu Aug 11 19:47:05

"And the AG told us the FBI agents are patriots. We know from the past they believe Trump to be one of the most serious threats to the country. So what patriot wouldn't circumvent the law to take out someone they see as pure evil?"

This is amusing. These "patriots" stood around for 4 years watching Trump destroy this country and try to topple the government without a single one of them trying to stop it.

Habebe
Member
Thu Aug 11 20:46:42
So the story now is that Trump had. WMD's....no joke, source WAPO.
Habebe
Member
Thu Aug 11 20:49:32
http://www...8/11/garland-trump-mar-a-lago/
Jesse Malcolm Barack
Member
Thu Aug 11 20:50:39
http://chr...nuclear-documents-sources-say/

Classified documents relating to nuclear weapons were among the items FBI agents sought in a search of former president Donald Trump's Florida residence Monday, according to people familiar with the investigation.

Not many people orange treason would be selling them to
Jesse Malcolm Barack
Member
Thu Aug 11 21:01:52
http://uk....ntrum-spectacle-200143962.html

"military expert Igor Korotchenko openly called for Russia to support Trump’s candidacy in the 2024 elections."

I guess people gotta ask themselves if Trump would trade our nuclear secrets for help getting back into the presidency?
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Thu Aug 11 21:21:05
it would be whatever a child would find neat to keep, or what his pals/lovers Putin or Kim Jong Un asked for, or just what he thought he could sell for good money
murder
Member
Thu Aug 11 21:54:18

I 100% believe that he stole them so he could impress his guests with them.

I'm sure he's done stuff like that before.

tumbleweed
the wanderer
Thu Aug 11 22:03:13
a definitely possibility, & would explain how the informant was aware
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Thu Aug 11 22:11:39
"Why did [AG Garland] wait until -after- the raid to give the American people the details?"
~ Brian Kilmeade (dumbest guy on Fox & Friends)
http://twitter.com/Acyn/status/1557881447834390530
& claims Garland only speaking as he got caught abusing power [nope] & that he should have laid out the case against Trump... as they have done never... & completely violates Trump's rights...

Habebe
Member
Fri Aug 12 07:33:25
JMB, Why is everything you post a lie or a twist of the truth?

You said Bobb (trumps lawyer)was present during the search to accusations that she wasnt permitted to watch.

That's BS, she says right here she was not permitted, which is standard procedure for any police search, a lawyer can watch.

http://youtu.be/uC3T7DLrKIs

Literally in her own words.
murder
Member
Fri Aug 12 07:46:33

"which is standard procedure for any police search"

That is so ridiculously wrong that I don't even know what to say. 99.999% of police searches do not involve the presence of an attorney anywhere.

And no you don't get to watch. You get to get herded out of the way so you can't destroy whatever evidence they are searching for before they can get to it or find it.

Dukhat
Member
Fri Aug 12 08:48:02
The most terrifying thing about them searching Trump is that they could do it again to any other person that stole nuclear documents. Muh freedoms!111
Habebe
Member
Fri Aug 12 09:07:31
"That is so ridiculously wrong that I don't even know what to say. 99.999% of police searches do not involve the presence of an attorney anywhere."

Attorneys are always permitted to watch a search, if you cant have an attorney present you find a relative or trustworthy friend, standard procedure.


"That's BS, she says right here she was not permitted, which is standard procedure for any police search, a lawyer can watch."

What are you saying? That its standard procedure to allow them to watch or to let cops search while barring witnesses?
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Fri Aug 12 11:39:54
i don't know if lawyers are always allowed to watch, i've seen it nowhere but from you, but there's no reason to believe anything a lawyer claims anyway... lawyers are paid to mislead their audience, that's their job, especially a Trump one (& he seems to have a different lawyer every single time... i never recognize any of them outside of criminals Giuliani & Cohen)

god, that whole interview so disgusting... both parties clearly out to mislead & not give facts (& done nightly by every Fox show)
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Fri Aug 12 12:02:47
Trump claims he wants docs released... but it wouldn't be first time he has his lawyers do opposite of what he says publicly
Habebe
Member
Fri Aug 12 14:25:39
TW, I don't know then legalities if they have to or not, but any good lawyer will tell you if your being searched have a witness to that search, its common practice.

"but there's no reason to believe anything a lawyer claims anyway..."

Fair enough, but same goes for the FBI.

They released some data, but its real vague, as I understand it 11 documents of importance were recovered, not sure what they are through.

I did see a Trafalger poll saying most independents found this to be over reach, partisans acted as you would expect.
murder
Member
Fri Aug 12 14:40:06

"Until we have a new and reformed FBI, every conscientious citizen should consider jury nullification if you’re on a jury. Don’t say you’re doing it. Just do it. It’s legal, and you’re advancing the cause of justice by thwarting the largest crime syndicate in the country"

Until we have a new and repentant Republican Party, feds should avoid criminal trials and just execute all right wing suspects and dump them in unmarked graves.

murder
Member
Fri Aug 12 14:45:59

"Attorneys are always permitted to watch a search, if you cant have an attorney present you find a relative or trustworthy friend, standard procedure."

This is NOT standard procedure. Where the fuck are you getting this? Most searches are not even politely announced. Most suspects are not given a heads up. Searches are NOT pre-arranged. And no you sure as hell do not get to invite a friend.

Search warrant tourism is NOT a thing.

Jesse Malcolm Barack
Member
Fri Aug 12 14:47:08
Oh man Trumps under investigation under the espionage act and repubs tried to derail the investigation and spread lies every damn step of the way

http://www...ionage-act-violations-00051507

Search warrant shows Trump under investigation for potential obstruction of justice, Espionage Act violations

A receipt accompanying the search warrant, viewed by POLITICO on Friday, shows that Trump possessed documents including a handwritten note; documents marked with “TS/SCI,” which indicate one of the highest levels of government classification; and another item labeled “Info re: President of France.”


The FBI reportedly removed 11 sets of classified documents marked "top secret" from Donald Trump's Mar-a-Lago home, according to the Wall Street Journal.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Fri Aug 12 15:17:12
so it wasn't just napkins as various fucking liar Fox/R's put out?

yet i'm sure they'll maintain Trump fully innocent, that he can't possibly have done something irresponsible or wrong... so inconceivable...


and all these documents are AFTER they turned over 15 initial boxes, plus then got a subpoena for more before this search ever happened
Habebe
Member
Fri Aug 12 15:19:04
"Search warrant tourism is NOT a thing."

Actually it is a thing, but has been routinely not permitted.

This is not tourism. Its having an officer of the court witness a search for transparency and to make sure the laws and regulations are properly followed.

If attorneys are present its standard procedure that they witness the search.
Habebe
Member
Fri Aug 12 15:22:11
TW, Again, they were real vague, heavy on the speculation. The right claiming its letters he sent/received, the left claiming Trump is selling nuclear secrets to the Saudis and Russians.

All speculation as far as I can tell, IDK what 11 documents of importance are.
Habebe
Member
Fri Aug 12 15:22:12
TW, Again, they were real vague, heavy on the speculation. The right claiming its letters he sent/received, the left claiming Trump is selling nuclear secrets to the Saudis and Russians.

All speculation as far as I can tell, IDK what 11 documents of importance are.
Jesse Malcolm Barack
Member
Fri Aug 12 15:34:43
"heavy on the speculation"

Kinda like these posts

"Uh, so about criminalizing your political opponents" - habebe

"I mean, this is just so normal to send the FBI to raid your political opponent"

"This is all great news, an over reaching government attscking political opponents? The optics alone favor Republicans.

I'm telling you, this is a gift in disguise."

"Was this all over some obscure records rule?"
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Fri Aug 12 15:47:58
"Again, they were real vague, heavy on the speculation. The right claiming its letters he sent/received, the left claiming Trump is selling nuclear secrets to the Saudis and Russians. "


Fox News & GOP congresspeople are the ones HEAVILY speculating & just presuming Trump did nothing wrong & that the FBI corrupt (& Biden involved/corrupt)

CNN isn't speculating he's selling nuclear secrets or anything similar

there's NO comparison about who is going nuts with misinformation
Seb
Member
Fri Aug 12 15:49:26
He had fucking SCI documents that are supposed to only be stored and viewed in a special facility.

That's not accident - that's deliberate.

Makes Hilary's emails are nothing in comparison
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Fri Aug 12 15:49:39
first post on my twitter at the moment...
"What do you think the FBI’s code name is for their new Trump hoax? Comment below!"
~ Sen Marsha Blackburn

a Senator...

w/ HEAPS just like it every day
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Fri Aug 12 15:51:15
(there have been zero FBI hoaxes against Trump, not that a single Fox viewer would realize it)
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Fri Aug 12 16:00:23
This thread has the warrant & seizure list

http://twitter.com/patriottakes/status/1558192319341465607

last two pages most interesting w/ list of seizures (though no specifics)

that lawyer of his signed it, i guess she shouldn't have if they violated her rights to see anything

could be an international incident w/ that info on 'President of France' :p
Jesse Malcolm Barack
Member
Fri Aug 12 16:21:26
another fox and habebe lie uncovered

http://www...ar-a-lago-security-feed-2022-8

Trump and his family watched the FBI search Mar-a-Lago via the property's security feed
murder
Member
Fri Aug 12 16:38:41

Trump got a million times more consideration than typical perps.

tumbleweed
the wanderer
Fri Aug 12 16:50:09
Marjorie claims to be filing articles impeachment against Garland (for his abuse of power against political enemies, for which there is no evidence)
http://twitter.com/RonFilipkowski/status/1558206961929314304
(she claimed to have filed articles of impeachment on Biden too awhile ago, i guess it didn't work out)
williamthebastard
Member
Fri Aug 12 16:53:25
This guy was toying with selling nuke secrets for billions of dollars
murder
Member
Fri Aug 12 17:15:42

MAGAts are saying that Trump declassified all the documents. That all he had to do was say "these documents are declassified" ... as if it was some sort of magic incantation.

http://com...-id/2333i1AECEFBD3EB49525?v=v2

Jesse Malcolm Barack
Member
Fri Aug 12 17:20:07
More trump lies first dude says he declassified them then says he wasnt given the paperwork to declassify them

http://www...mp-search-mar-a-lago-documents

The former president’s claim was met with immediate scepticism, partly because the seized documents appeared to retain their original classified markings, according to a source familiar with the matter who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss an open investigation.

Trump has offered no details about how the supposed declassification took place, and a former Trump administration aide, Kash Patel, has said that even though Trump did declassify the records, the White House counsel’s office never provided the required paperwork.

But whether the former president actually declassified the documents may not ultimately matter. The Espionage Act, for instance, does not distinguish between classified and declassified materials – unauthorized retention of any document relevant to the statute remains a crime.

Documents marked as top secret are also meant only to be viewed in secure rooms known as a sensitive compartmented information facilities
murder
Member
Fri Aug 12 17:32:22

You can't just wave your hand and say "declassified". There is a procedure to declassify documents. That is for the very obvious reason that how a document is handled ... not just by Donald Trump but by everyone ... is determined by its classification.

You can't have Joe/Jane Rando prosecuted for mishandling classified documents while the former president and his kid are passing them around at the kid's school.

murder
Member
Fri Aug 12 17:34:21

Also fyi documents can be reclassified after they've been declassified.

When the government asks you to return documents, you better do it.

tumbleweed
the wanderer
Fri Aug 12 17:35:18
declaring bankruptcy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OqRAt4snz_w

which i'm sure is still more than Trump did when supposedly declassifying

a CNN guy noted how none of the crimes listed require stuff being classified perhaps to avoid him claiming all declassified (though seizure list still shows 'confidential/secret/top-secret+sci', so are classified)
Seb
Member
Fri Aug 12 17:46:40
The whole scif thing. We call it STRAP but it's the same procedure.

It's not just viewing - the docs are stored in an air gapped Faraday caged set of rooms, no electronic devices and searches, and two sets of doors.

The docs do not leave facility.

You go to the facility and read docs under supervision of someone with what we call "developed vetting" and top secret. I held in my time secret clearance but that's really nothing that sensitive in the scheme of things - stuff we really wouldn't want people to know, but not that dangerous if they do, but needs to be widely circulated, so can't be protected that the Russians or Chinese can't get it if they really want.

The stuff that's in SCIF or strap rooms is actually properly top secret. Stuff that is actually really dangerous if the Russians or the Chinese know.

You can't just say declassified, you need to go through procedures. So the only be way SCI docs got to mar-a-lago is if some official acting for trump went into a scif facility, demanded the documents, took them out, citing presidential authority to those supervising the room.

And for those to end up in a golf club...

Officials who have left less secret documents in their bag on the train have been fired and banned from public service.





Seb
Member
Fri Aug 12 17:48:47
And to be clear it doesn't matter of trump decided and had the authority to decide such documents ought to be declassified.

If procedurally they were not, and yet trump used or allowed others to use his executive authority to override enforcement of the laws on managing this information to extract it pending formal declassification that in itself is as serious as issue.
kargen
Member
Fri Aug 12 17:52:11
"These "patriots" stood around for 4 years watching Trump destroy this country and try to topple the government without a single one of them trying to stop it."

That is tumbleweed worthy delusional alternate universe thinking right there.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Fri Aug 12 17:54:19
he just needs a Fox viewer on the jury, they've already found him innocent & incapable of wrong-doing
murder
Member
Fri Aug 12 17:54:57

"So the only be way SCI docs got to mar-a-lago is ..."

Trump likely had a SCIF set up at Mar-a-Lago while President.

murder
Member
Fri Aug 12 17:55:54

"he just needs a Fox viewer on the jury, they've already found him innocent & incapable of wrong-doing"

There isn't going to be a jury.

kargen
Member
Fri Aug 12 18:00:06
"This is NOT standard procedure. Where the fuck are you getting this? Most searches are not even politely announced. Most suspects are not given a heads up. Searches are NOT pre-arranged. And no you sure as hell do not get to invite a friend."

The reason lawyers are not usually involved is because they are not usually on scene. If they are on scene they by law are permitted to observe. Anyone associated with the premises are allowed to observe and document a search unless the warrant is for an individual. If a friend is there and you are detained you can ask that friend to witness and document the search.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Fri Aug 12 18:01:07
well he'd probably start a civil war before allowing himself to be arrested... & the Fox/GOP seems to be helping

but i do still hold out hope he'll finally get charged... comeuppance is required in this story
Habebe
Member
Fri Aug 12 18:07:16
Wait did I miss something? Was he charged with a crime?
murder
Member
Fri Aug 12 18:09:16

"If a friend is there and you are detained you can ask that friend to witness and document the search."

You can ask for a burger and fries.

tumbleweed
the wanderer
Fri Aug 12 18:09:54
not yet... just guilty of many crimes
murder
Member
Fri Aug 12 18:11:14

"but i do still hold out hope he'll finally get charged"

Let go of that hope. If they got all the materials back they will likely agree not to charge him in exchange for information about anyone else who may have accessed those documents.

And then that will be it.

murder
Member
Fri Aug 12 18:13:05

"And then that will be it."

For him obviously. Anyone else that accessed those documents or were told about their contents will get a talking to and a warning that the information is classified and that sharing it would result in charges.

tumbleweed
the wanderer
Fri Aug 12 18:18:35
i'm not just talking about these crimes, that have essentially been proven (he hasn't demanded the first 15 boxes back, who knows how much classified shit in those & he won't for these new boxes either)

many crimes to work with to charge him... he HAS to get charged...
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Fri Aug 12 18:22:33
his attempt to overthrow the election seems like a good thing to discourage... including by fully corrupting DOJ by installing a stooge to send lies to the States to get them to chuck the votes & decide Trump won...
murder
Member
Fri Aug 12 18:30:42

"he HAS to get charged..."

I wish that to be true. But I'm not wasting a second expecting it.

Jesse Malcolm Barack
Member
Fri Aug 12 18:32:15
http://www...ely-putting-out-maga-hit-list/

Trump Just Named the FBI Agents that Searched Mar-a-Lago, Effectively Putting Out ‘MAGA Hit List’
Habebe
Member
Fri Aug 12 18:38:02
"Nixon’s infamous comment that “when the president does it, that means that it is not illegal” is actually true about some things. Classified information is one of them. The nature of the system is that the President gets to disclose what he wants.

The reason is that the very purpose of the classification system is to protect information the President, usually through his subordinates, thinks sensitive. So the President determines the system of designating classified information through Executive Order, and he is entitled to depart from it at will. Currently, Executive Order 13526 governs national security information.

The Supreme Court has stated in Department of the Navy v. Egan that “[the President’s] authority to classify and control access to information bearing on national security ... flows primarily from this Constitutional investment of power in the President and exists quite apart from any explicit congressional grant.” Because of his broad constitutional authority in this realm, the president can, at any time, either declassify information or decide whom to share it with."

http://www...ion-authority-attorney-general


I'm no expert, but, who has authority higher than a OPTUS to classify something?

According to this even Congress lacks that authority , since a POTUS derives said authority from the USC , not federal law, which is a lesser authority.

Jmb, IIRC it was Lipton, all over the internet.

Habebe
Member
Fri Aug 12 18:44:28
""There’s no question that the president has broad authority to declassify almost anything at any time without any process, but that’s not what happened here," said Stephen I. Vladeck, professor at the University of Texas School of Law. "

http://www...bility-declassify-anything-an/


This was an old politifact, about Trump speaking to the Russians about something.

But it seems to clearly state WITHOUT PROCESS.

Likely because these processes are written in federal law, but that wouldn't constrain a POTUS if henisnusing authority explicitly granted from a higher authority IE the US Constitution, which supercedes congressional laws.



But, since we still have no idea really what is going on, its all speculation.
murder
Member
Fri Aug 12 19:03:50

"The reason is that the very purpose of the classification system is to protect information the President, usually through his subordinates, thinks sensitive."

No. The President is not king. The classification system does NOT exist for his benefit or whims. That's why it survives his term. It exists for the purpose of national security.

murder
Member
Fri Aug 12 19:11:54

"but that wouldn't constrain a POTUS if henisnusing authority explicitly granted from a higher authority IE the US Constitution"

Maybe I slept through that part. Where the hell does the Constitution say that?

kargen
Member
Fri Aug 12 19:23:50
"You can ask for a burger and fries."

Yes you can. The law allows for witnessing the search, not so much the meal.
murder
Member
Fri Aug 12 19:27:00

The law doesn't even guarantee you access to the premises while it's being searched. You don't have to be there. Nobody has to be there. You don't even have to be informed if they feel it necessary.

Habebe
Member
Fri Aug 12 19:42:12
Murder, As I understand it the SC interprets article 2 to say that classification power is at the POTUS discretion considering they are the head of the executive branch.

Now, Im half drunk off punch, so, what do I know?

Serious question though, if not the POTUS, what person or body has the authority higher than a potus in terms of classified vs not classified?

I know the Atlantic claims even a POTUS can't declassify nuclear secrets for example, and that seems to be maybe reasonable.

But on what authority?

Habebe
Member
Fri Aug 12 19:46:03
Have you ever taken an everything pizza and topped it with lettuce, tomato and onion like a hoagie?

Omg, its soo fucking good. Garlic powder and I broke up a dried hot pepper on it, I could have a billion dollars and every once in a while want a garbage pizza hoagie.
Jesse Malcolm Barack
Member
Fri Aug 12 20:08:23
Oh man look at the mental gymnastics and backflips from habebe to try to find a way for Trump to weasel out of an espionage charge

You and your master are gonna have many sleepless nights dude

http://www...mp-search-mar-a-lago-documents

The former president’s claim was met with immediate scepticism, partly because the seized documents appeared to retain their original classified markings

But whether the former president actually declassified the documents may not ultimately matter. The Espionage Act, for instance, does not distinguish between classified and declassified materials – unauthorized retention of any document relevant to the statute remains a crime.

Documents marked as top secret are also meant only to be viewed in secure rooms known as a sensitive compartmented information facilities, or SCIF, and their presence in a basement storage area at Mar-a-Lago appears to satisfy the technical elements of a violation of law.

In a statement, the House intelligence committee chairman, Adam Schiff, said the classified documents found at Mar-a-Lago were a potential security issue. “Every day that information of such a classification sits in an unsecure location is a risk to our national security,
Habebe
Member
Fri Aug 12 21:31:01
Jmb,Speculate much?

Taking Adam Schiff at his word?!

The same guy who read the Steele dossier in front of Congress?!

What a tool.

Btw the Steele dossier was proven to be made up BS, stop listening to maddow.

Habebe
Member
Fri Aug 12 21:32:22
Id trust an egg salad sandwich at a men's bathroom @ a gas station in Trenton before Id trust a word out of Schiffs mouth.
Sam Adams
Member
Fri Aug 12 22:15:06
“Every day that information of such a classification sits in an unsecure location is a risk to our national security"

Yet hillary also had classified info in an unsecured location. The dems are going to need something much worse of they actually went to get trump.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Fri Aug 12 22:48:08
it's a lot worse

classified information wasn't supposed to be sent on the State Dept email even if she used the right one, that's why barely any found & i don't know of any particularly sensitive stuff (one item was discussing a condolence call to some foreign leader)

she wasn't charged as she had no intent, Comey explained it quite clearly & reasonably

Trump specifically took shit & was given subpoenas to return shit & still didn't do it & i'll bet it was quite obvious some of it is highly classified

(& of course Hillary WAS investigated for a lengthy amount of time, w/ fuckhead having 'lock her up' chants as a staple at his rallies, yet FBI going after Trump is totally corrupt...)
Seb
Member
Sat Aug 13 00:19:13
Sam:

Classified just means it has a security mark.

We have documents classified "unrestricted".

We also have documents classified "official" and "official - sensitive"

Then we have "secret" and higher tiers.

So yes I'm sure Hillary had some classified docs in her emails, but the pertinent question is "at what level?".

Probably not "sensitive compartmentalised information" I'd wager.

Probably the US equivalent of official sensitive or secret. Stuff you are ultimately keeping secret from the press, or would be embarrassing not stuff posing a high risk that you are keeping secret from foreign intelligence agencies.

Seb
Member
Sat Aug 13 00:23:06
Classified is such a weasel word. Journos love it. "I was leaked CLASSIFIED INFORMATION...." that the actual protective making scheme indicated was to keep private for govt while a contract negotiation was ongoing.
Seb
Member
Sat Aug 13 00:57:23
Murder:
"Trump likely had a SCIF set up at Mar-a-Lago while President."

Ah... Of course. And probably charged rent to the govt for it...

Even if Mar-a-Lago had a SCIF that still means someone removed the docs from there.

Clearly it wasn't being managed properly or

Seb
Member
Sat Aug 13 00:57:50
his underlings ordered those managing it to break procedure.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Sat Aug 13 01:08:52
they had to ask him to add a padlock to a door while the process was playing out, so pretty sure it was not secure

plus the fact that obviously Trump would be careless, as he was his entire run... he openly discussed sensitive info while sitting in the public dining room, & blurted shit out just to brag... (again, him clearly being a child mentally blatantly obvious as it was in all behavior)
Sam Adams
Member
Sat Aug 13 12:42:09
There may be some differences between the classified info of trump vs clinton, but the dems are going to need significant proof of something worse for the majority of the people to think this is more than partisan squabbling.

Saying "trump made a security lapse a little worse than hillary" isnt going to cut it.

"Trump tried to sell nuclear secrets to the saudis"... youd need something like that to really harm trump.
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