Welcome to the Utopia Forums! Register a new account
The current time is Tue Feb 27 11:27:09 PST 2024

Utopia Talk / Politics / FBI V Trump 4
murder
Member
Wed Aug 31 05:12:08
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Wed Aug 31 02:30:20

here are the attachments to the latest DOJ filing (about the request for a special master, Trumps latest delay tactic)

http://sto...scourts.flsd.618763.48.1_1.pdf

“E” is the letter from a Trump attorney (presumed to be lady who Trump recruited from OAN) where she claims a thorough search done and all documents were returned... however, the raid later turning up twice as many more docs than they had returned

maybe lying GOPers will stop saying “why didn’t they subpoena instead of a raid??” now... not that the subpoenaes weren’t known about already...

“F” the damning photo of docs, and I believe those were docs found in his office, not the storage room... presumably the place he entertains the slimy sleazy individuals who come to meet him

murder
Member
Wed Aug 31 05:16:00

Miles Taylor @MilesTaylorUSA

Here’s the smoking gun — with Trump’s fingerprints on them.

The ex-President personally combed through these files in late 2021, according to multiple sources.

He cannot claim ignorance.

http://twitter.com/MilesTaylorUSA/status/1564830063538966528

================================


Au contraire, Donald Trump can always credibly claim ignorance.

Jesse Malcolm Barack
Member
Wed Aug 31 06:26:04
Trump stealz a shizzload of files after losing then cia spies start dropping like flies http://www...nformants-killed-captured.html
murder
Member
Wed Aug 31 07:10:38

http://twitter.com/chriscatmom/status/1564746668276211712

lol :o)

murder
Member
Wed Aug 31 07:51:48

House Judiciary GOP @JudiciaryGOP

That TIME Magazine cover was huge threat to national security.

http://twitter.com/JudiciaryGOP/status/1564818029388734465

===============================


Apparently hoping that no one notices the rest of the picture.

tumbleweed
the wanderer
Wed Aug 31 11:44:27
& the Judiciary Committee "is charged with overseeing the administration of justice within the federal courts, administrative agencies and Federal law enforcement entities"

you can tell the GOP side really cares about the law from the tweets coming from that account (probably all done by Jim Jordan, the GOP's fucked up pick to head the committee)
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Wed Aug 31 11:55:13
"Terrible the way the FBI, during the Raid of Mar-a-Lago, threw documents haphazardly all over the floor (perhaps pretending it was me that did it!), and then started taking pictures of them for the public to see. Thought they wanted them kept Secret? Lucky I Declassified!"
~ the criminal (admitting he had those docs, not planted)
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Wed Aug 31 12:06:51
Adam Schiff's assessment of the "most striking" elements of DOJ filing:
http://twitter.com/RepAdamSchiff/status/1564968888101511172
(not that the cult side cares what Schiff says or shows directly from the document... but they won't care what anyone says)

one interesting part is apparently the FBI was allowed to see the storage room at the one point before raid, but prohibited from looking in the boxes (always confused my why they made them add a padlock, but didn't know what was actually there)

plus they had evidence of items being concealed or removed, likely done to obstruct the investigation (additional crime!)

but sadly we likely won't see that evidence (& obviously warranted charges) for months/years
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Wed Aug 31 12:08:31
Bedminster & Trump Tower & his plane should also be raided then all property burned to the ground in case they missed anything

then he should be publicly hanged

justice would then be done

...probably won't happen
murder
Member
Wed Aug 31 13:58:37

Probably. ;o)

tumbleweed
the wanderer
Wed Aug 31 15:04:36
Trump having the documents is not a concern because
"[Trump] may be writing a memoir. He may be writing an autobiography."
~ beholden idiot Rep. Ken Buck (R-CO)
http://twitter.com/therecount/status/1565047761170534400

it's not even one of the multiple excuses put out by the obvious irresponsible fraud criminal, but whatever... keep protecting him w/ any bullshit you can think up
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Wed Aug 31 15:10:06
& i'm confident that it would still require knowledge & approval of him having the 100s of classified documents (for over a year-and-a-half)... a totally plausible & reasonable thing to have occurred?...

the desperation of the excuses R's come up with adding to the patheticness
Habebe
Member
Wed Aug 31 15:12:28
Cant trust an FBI from a potus that is likely about to be impeached.

I mean, if he is being investigated, it couldn't possibly be politically motivated.
Habebe
Member
Wed Aug 31 15:13:42
Excuses for what? There is no charge.

Are you going to make excuses when Biden is impeached?
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Wed Aug 31 15:28:10
excuses for him having 100s of classified documents including highest level & most concerning (human sources)

& excuses for him not returning when told to

he clearly has violated the law here

& zero indication of political motivation... it doesn't even make sense... there is a timeline of the efforts of them trying to get back the documents, first just by Nat'l Archives... & includes Trump stalling the process more than once, & he HAD the documents.... HOW can it be politically motivated to try every method to get them back?

as to the '100 days' before midterms... well if he hadn't delayed process -or- you know, didn't lie & continue to hold documents, it wouldn't have been... second of all, when that SC abortion ruling leaked, that was also supposedly to affect the midterms and was many months ago... there is no time the raid could occur where they wouldn't use that nonsense excuse
murder
Member
Wed Aug 31 15:32:19

I've chosen to not get caught in the classified/declassified bullshit and just focus on the fact that those documents belong to the government.

They are not his.

He took them without permission.

He didn't return them when the government asked for them.

He lied about having returned them all.

Just throw the book at him for theft of government property for each individual document he took or destroyed or damaged.

tumbleweed
the wanderer
Wed Aug 31 15:33:32
also, remember classification markings talk around Hillary?... where one email contained a 'c' with a circle around it (as someone had copied a paragraph from a confidential document) & we heard 'how did Hillary not notice that 'c' with the circle!!... & not understand how email servers work, as all women her age do...!!'

whereas these docs plastered with classification markings (as they are actual documents)... & NONE marked declassified, obviously, as his idiotic declassification claim is a completely transparent childish lie
murder
Member
Wed Aug 31 15:34:11

"as to the '100 days' before midterms"

Trump isn't on the ballot anywhere in 2022.

murder
Member
Wed Aug 31 15:36:36

"as his idiotic declassification claim is a completely transparent childish lie"

It wouldn't matter. If they want to claim that Trump secretly declassified them, the government can claim that Biden secretly reclassified them.

Trump was in possession of government property and refused to surrender it.

tumbleweed
the wanderer
Wed Aug 31 15:44:29
i can't figure out why anyone even thinks secret declassification makes any sense at all


in West World if you showed robots photos of the 'real' world they couldn't see anything

same thing seems to be occurring to R's w/ regards to Trump's insanely crazily ridiculous behavior (& why Jim Jordan could only see TIME magazine covers)
Habebe
Member
Wed Aug 31 15:51:39
So, no one will defend a corrupt potus on the verge of impeachment?
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Wed Aug 31 15:59:31
Marjorie already impeached Biden... her case was amazing, no way to poke a hole in whatever it was


back to Trump... can we also take a moment & remember that him making ridiculously obvious lie excuses was standard... like claiming he said the wrong word in Helsinki (which only 'fixed' the short clip media used, whereas all event he was siding w/ Putin thus obvious transparent lie)... or when he said he was only being sarcastic about using disinfectant inside the body for covid (as if it wasn't on video)...

so, yeah, Trump who lies (poorly) all the time, is incredibly clearly lying again...
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Wed Aug 31 17:11:03
"
There seems to be confusion as to the "picture" where documents were sloppily thrown on the floor and then released photographically for the world to see, as if that's what the FBI found when they broke into my home. Wrong! They took them out of cartons and spread them around on the carpet, making it look like a big "find" for them. They dropped them, not me - Very deceiving... And remember, we could have NO representative, including lawyers, present during the Raid. They were told to wait outside.
"
~ moron child confessing more

so confirming he knew they were there (in 'cartons')

them being shown on the floor is not the problem i've seen anyone reporting but whatever... moron has to moron
Habebe
Member
Wed Aug 31 17:12:09
But when Biden claimed to lead the largest votwr fraud organization in history (on video) of course it was just a slip up.

Your benefit of the doubt only ever falls one way.

If both sides do the same or near similar things , you only ever find fault with one side.

We get it, your obsessed with hatinf trump and you think thats a good thing.
Habebe
Member
Wed Aug 31 17:14:10
When Trump gets investigted for wrong doing, by political opponets, you never see any hint of it being political.

Now that Biden is going to likely be impeached, not a word.

Now to clarify, I think it's also purely political going after Biden for impeachment , just like Trump.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Wed Aug 31 17:16:12
"But when Biden claimed to lead the largest voter fraud organization in history (on video) of course it was just a slip up"

seriously? you really think he meant he had a voter fraud ring & accidentally blurted it out to the camera?

& if not serious, i don't see how that compares to Trump incredibly obviously & provably lying to cover his ass... where is the innocent mistake in my examples?

& what is the innocent explanation for these documents? (secret declassification that no one in the gov't knows about & for which there is no record makes exactly zero sense)
----

& to the cartons thing, i imagine he means the office box shown right next to the documents (same boxes as where the TIME covers were)... super secure
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Wed Aug 31 17:20:22
"When Trump gets investigted for wrong doing, by political opponets, you never see any hint of it being political."

it's not his opponents... the Nat'l Archives wanted their docs back, found shocking shit & showed to FBI (after Trump lawyers delayed it), now FBI investigating & retrieving more from the liar criminal... zero evidence Biden had a hand in it, plus Trump HAD THE DOCS, HOW CAN IT BE POLITICAL... there has been no legit defense that has been given on why he should have them

-------

"Now that Biden is going to likely be impeached, not a word."

i don't even know what impeachment you're talking about but it doesn't belong in this thread... & i imagine they wouldn't bother til after midterms, & i'm certain they will impeach at least twice to remove the stain from Trump being only one w/ 2 impeachments, not because of legitimate issues
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Wed Aug 31 21:18:46
somewhat surprisingly Hannity showed the photo:
http://twitter.com/acyn/status/1565154301101703175?s=21
although obsessing over how the docs were spread out on the floor for the photo & suggesting FBI trying to trick people

so fucking weird...

oh, the 100s of classified docs were in cardboard boxes (& they still lied about them being returned)... no big deal then
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Wed Aug 31 21:41:44
'you're honor, my clients' drugs, money & weapons were not all arranged on a table like in that photo!'

'oh really? case dismissed!'
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Wed Aug 31 21:42:15
*your... damn
Habebe
Member
Wed Aug 31 21:54:02
The FBI works for the DOJ who works for the POTUS.

It makes no sense with so much at stake in such a high profile sitauation the WH wouldn't know.

Even if Trump had the documents and it is illegal (big IFs)

To have the political opposition raid the the others house 100 days before an election os clearly suspect AF.

To deny that is crazy.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Wed Aug 31 22:06:06
why is 100 days optimal? & which side's voters is it even energizing more? plus it stepped on a bill success by Biden... plus it was Trump who revealed it even happened (no media was there as lairs lied about)

from what i heard they went in plain clothes, mid-morning, & when resort not even open, thus no attempt at a spectacle (but lying liars also claimed that CNN -not- being there also evidence of FBI corruption, in that they were trying to do it secretly but hero Trump revealed their treachery)

& there's been a lengthy process (delayed by Trump) who could've just returned everything at the start

no indication the timing is weird, no indication the raid wasn't needed (in fact indication of the opposite... no, we don't know what witnesses or footage they have that made them aware of the docs or suspect being moved, but they put it in an official filing to courts, & there has been NO indication of them being corrupt about Trump EVER)

& we do know the documents were there & in large quantity (Trump has confessed multiple times now) thus the statement signed by Trump's lawyer that no more there completely false or minimally showing massive incompetence

so thanks, FBI!
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Wed Aug 31 22:30:10
Pirro: Supreme Court leak best way to 'gin up the left' to avert Democratic 'bloodbath' in midterms
http://twitter.com/FoxNews/status/1521698400391110656

so wait, May 3rd was optimal to influence midterms...

there is no time where they wouldn't use that made-up bullshit claim

made no sense for that leak (as the SC opinion was due well before midterm anyway), makes no sense here...
Habebe
Member
Wed Aug 31 22:30:47
http://bal...t-Large_Congressional_District

8 Republicans, 1 democrat, a few Libertarian and some independents.

Dukhat watches too much MSNBC.
Habebe
Member
Wed Aug 31 22:32:18
Wrong thread.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Wed Aug 31 22:32:42
a timeline:

-May 2021: The National Archives notifies Trump’s attorneys about missing White House records
-December 2021: Trump gets a warning
-January 2022: 15 boxes of documents are taken from Mar-a-Lago to the National Archives
-February 2022: The National Archives refers the matter to the Justice Department
-May 16-18, 2022: The FBI reviews the content of the 15 boxes (delayed by Trump's team)
-Late May 2022: Trump is subpoenaed by a grand jury
-Early June 2022: Justice Department officials visit Mar-a-Lago (but not allowed to look in boxes, & later getting statement by lawyer that no docs remain)
-Late June 2022: FBI interviews Trump staff, reviews Mar-a-Lago security footage
-Aug. 5, 2022: Judge approves the search warrant
-Aug. 8, 2022: FBI agents execute the search warrant at Mar-a-Lago

http://new...onthslong-probe-193531150.html

when did they plot to time it for midterms?
...and how did they get Trump to still have the documents...
Habebe
Member
Wed Aug 31 22:33:43
They could have easily waited until after elections to raid Mara-lago.
Jesse Malcolm Barack
Member
Wed Aug 31 22:48:15
You had no problem with them investigating hillary days before an election dude

Trumps not a fuzzing midterms candidate nobody forced you to run dumb maga candidates and politicalise the trump investigation and make it a midterm issue, you did that all by yourself dude

Also dude Trump has top secret info on american spies in other countries so why the fuzz should they delay this by another 3 months when he had a year to return them and lied and stalled especially with this shizz going on http://www...nformants-killed-captured.html
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Wed Aug 31 23:16:35
"They could have easily waited..."

who else would be given that? just let him have a few more months with the 100s of classified documents in insecure locations... plus the resort would be opened up by then

on top of that they had evidence of movement or other shenanigans going on (i'm guessing from reviewing security cam footage, but possibly from witness(es) too)


& of course he'll probably declare his run for president immediately after midterms, so Team Assholes would've just -definitely- said the raid was because of that instead
Habebe
Member
Wed Aug 31 23:44:23
"Also dude Trump has top secret info on american spies in other countries"

We have no idea what he had. It could have been cookie recipes for all we know, its all speculation.

TW, Trump could have jaywalked and you would still support sending the FBI to raid his home.
Jesse Malcolm Barack
Member
Wed Aug 31 23:53:12
http://sla...-trump-classified-secrets.html

"The affidavit, written on Aug. 5 and released by a judge on Friday, reported that 15 boxes of documents, which had already been retrieved from the Florida estate early in 2022, contained 184 documents, including 25 marked Top Secret—and that some of those were marked HCS, SI, FISA, ORCON, NOFORN.

In these acronyms lies a scandalous, perhaps literally incriminating story.

HCS means HUMINT Control System, and HUMINT means Human Intelligence—in other words, intelligence gathered from spies. Documents marked HUMINT may contain the identities of spies, as well as information obtained from them.

SI means Special intelligence and concerns intercepts of foreign communications, including information about the technology and operations used by foreign governments to transmit or collect information."
Jesse Malcolm Barack
Member
Wed Aug 31 23:53:57
Cookies recipes are not labelled HCS dude
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Wed Aug 31 23:54:56
Fox banshee: "Why is the FBI staging evidence like this? I’ve been in law enforcement for 30 years, I have never seen anything like this"
asshole shill : "They know that they don't have a legal case against Trump"
http://twitter.com/Acyn/status/1565178360245927937

it looks like a completely standard evidence photo to me... with zero chance whomever took it was thinking 'this could be published someday, let's make it look like Trump was messy'

such a weird ass argument being put out by multiple Fox shows... is it just cause Lord fuckhead made it?
Habebe
Member
Thu Sep 01 00:10:42
"Cookies recipes are not labelled HCS dude"

A recipe for disappearing ink, something most kids have played with was classified for almost 100 years.

http://www...2011/04/19/AFn5Ej7D_story.html

So who knows.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Thu Sep 01 00:39:21
over 200 documents, over 1000 pages...

you want to place your bets on Trump, of all people, having kept nothing at all inappropriate?

also, it's already proven it was wrong, as 'RINO' Karl Rove mentioned on a Fox daytime show... (the shows w/ low ratings being the only ones that can have truth)
http://twitter.com/Acyn/status/1565061907203096576
Habebe
Member
Thu Sep 01 02:24:47
"you want to place your bets on Trump, of all people, having kept nothing at all inappropriate?"

No. But your right that its placing bets.We have No idea whats on those papers.

That's entirely my point.
murder
Member
Thu Sep 01 08:06:51

"They could have easily waited until after elections to raid Mara-lago."

They could have easily thrown his traitorous criminal ass under a federal prison years ago.

Criminals don't get to set terms.

murder
Member
Thu Sep 01 08:11:12

"No. But your right that its placing bets.We have No idea whats on those papers."

Sure I do. It's stuff that doesn't belong to Donald Trump.

You can keep trying to muddy the waters, and spin the story, and play what ifs, and generally bullshit to cover Trump's ass, but he took shit that isn't his. We put people away for that.

Habebe
Member
Thu Sep 01 08:40:55
"You can keep trying to muddy the waters, and spin the story, and play what ifs, and generally bullshit to cover Trump's ass, but he took shit that isn't his. We put people away for that."

We actually don't know that he wasnt allowed to have it. Why? Because the FBI wont tell anyone anything.
Jesse Malcolm Barack
Member
Thu Sep 01 09:24:37
"We actually don't know that he wasnt allowed to have it"

Dude nobody is allowed to run off with top secret files after losing an election. Some of what he had is only supposed to be seen in a special room with no electronic devices

"Because the FBI wont tell anyone anything."

What you really mean dude is that you haven't been told who the witnesses are. We all know if you saw all the evidence you would bullshizz like you're doing right now. you don't care what the evidence is dude repubs only want to see it because they know it would destroy the investigation before its complete
murder
Member
Thu Sep 01 10:30:50

"We actually don't know that he wasnt allowed to have it."

Actually we do because it's not his property. And we do because he was asked to return it. And we know because when he lied about having returned all the stolen property the federal government sent agents to retrieve the stolen property.

murder
Member
Thu Sep 01 10:32:28

"Actually we do because it's not his property."

If you're not sure about this, examine the cover pages of the documents carefully and notice that there is no giant tacky "Trump" or a giant "T" on the cover page ... therefore clearly not his property.

tumbleweed
the wanderer
Thu Sep 01 11:34:15
yeah, it's certain he's not allowed to have it (but how concerning the info is is unknown)

there's no serious push demanding all of it be returned to him & he never would've given up any to begin with if he could keep his preciousses, so outside of the head moron & his most loyal cultists, all know he did wrong


& if he actually thinks he declassified all of it (which is a transparently obvious lie), an adult would have noticed NONE of it is marked declassified & he had better double check
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Thu Sep 01 11:50:43
one of the Trump's (charlies angels) lawyers:
“I think they wanted to show the public that there were Top Secret documents to justify the raid. What that doesn’t tell you is that things are declassified that are marked classified - they don’t change the markings when they do that.”

http://twitter.com/RonFilipkowski/status/1565331362420252672

um, yeah they do... obviously...

the brunette angel is the one who certified that the subpoena was complied with & all documents returned, so she could be the next lawyer that Trump ruins (& supposedly a different lawyer wrote the statement but made her sign it... nice dick move as one might expect from a Trump lawyer)
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Thu Sep 01 12:07:47
or maybe every time you pick up a document covered in classified markings you have to think... 'hmm, maybe this is declassified'... i'll have to check the records, of which there are none... oh well... it's either classified or declassified with no way to tell... for every classified doc in existence
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Thu Sep 01 12:25:01
more MessyFloorgate... those lying FBI!:
(Trump calling in to a show to complain about the docs being on the floor)
http://twitter.com/RonFilipkowski/status/1565319387451691008
soooo hard to believe that guy was 'president'...
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Fri Sep 02 13:09:38
new info on stuff found in criminal's office:

http://pbs...AE7E_o?format=jpg&name=900x900

includes 43 empty folders with "Classified" banners & 28 empty folders labeled "return to Staff Secretary/Military Aide"

i'm sure it's fine...
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Fri Sep 02 14:32:42
here's the full listing of the box contents:
http://www.documentcloud.org/documents/22274262-39-1
quite the pack-rat of documents not belonging to him
murder
Member
Fri Sep 02 14:39:31

Before even getting to this they should charge Trump with illegally using the presidential seal.

Something else which he apparently thinks belongs to him.

Habebe
Member
Fri Sep 02 14:42:16
"includes 43 empty folders"

Really compelling stuff.
murder
Member
Fri Sep 02 14:44:40

Theft is compelling. We put people away for it every day.

Habebe
Member
Fri Sep 02 14:57:19
Yes lock a guy up for taking empty folders.

We have gone from "Nuclear codes!!!!" To empty folders...yawn.
Habebe
Member
Fri Sep 02 14:58:46
Empty folders and magazines!

Wow, what a gangster.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Fri Sep 02 15:02:47
"Empty folders and magazines! "

is that what Fox reporting? i imagine so like Jordan only seeing TIME magazines

if not bothered by the empty folders (& what happened to the contents), then see all the documents marked Classified/Secret/TopSecret

& yeah, -possibly- the loose docs account for what was in the empty folders (not exactly solving the problem)
or -possibly- Juanita the maid took them
or -possibly- Trump let every donor take a doc of their choosing
Habebe
Member
Fri Sep 02 15:41:05
"is that what Fox reporting?"

I literally got that from your document list citation on the first few pages.
Habebe
Member
Fri Sep 02 15:46:43
Damnit, I posted a screen shot in the wrong thread.

Anyway it came from page 2 of your link.
murder
Member
Fri Sep 02 15:56:48

"Yes lock a guy up for taking empty folders."

Lock him up for taking government property and for illegally using the presidential seal for starters just to get him out away. Plenty of opportunities to charge him with other more serious shit later.

tumbleweed
the wanderer
Fri Sep 02 16:14:10
ok, i agree empty folders & magazines are listed...

if there's an empty knife box & a sweater in the trunk w/ a stabbed hooker, those other items don't lessen the problem


here's 'RINO' Bill Barr ripping into Trump (& the heaps of bullshit by GOP/Fox) on this:
http://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1565756415209361409

11,000 documents is the total a CNN reporter noted (including the non-classified ones, that he's also not supposed to have as 'RINO' Bill Barr & 'RINO' Karl Rove have mentioned)
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Fri Sep 02 17:17:12
i'll just respond to kargen here to stop messing up that other thread :p

kargen compares the Fox/GOP blitz of hosts/guests/congressmen instantly claiming FBI raid was a corrupt political hit job & not really about Trump (as he can't possibly have done anything wrong...) to the reporting of nuclear documents being part of what the the FBI was looking for (which hasn't been confirmed or disproven yet)

well, that reporting came from a source & reported as such... it was not just made-up & declared as fact... & nuclear documents not even close to being the only problematic thing Trump could have had (was not even clear what 'nuclear' refers to, doesn't have to be weapons)

but what is the source or evidence or anything at all for declaring it as a corrupt FBI political hit job (especially the day/day after raid, but i'll take any even now)?
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Fri Sep 02 18:01:57
"Trump debunks the FBI’s picture of documents ‘sloppily thrown on the floor’ for ‘the world to see’"
http://twitter.com/RSBNetwork/status/1565489686780338176

"debunks"

complete w/ article... i mean it's RSBN, but still funny / so bizarre
Habebe
Member
Fri Sep 02 19:00:57
Trumps debunking is on par with the quality regularly seen from fact checkers.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Fri Sep 02 21:39:38
nope... also embarrassing how many of these idiots on his propaganda channels got sucked into his mentally-ill or child's mind 'defense'


and semi-related & back to the nuclear documents story... what did Trump put out in response to that story?: that Obama took 30 million pages home "much of them classified. How many of them pertained to nuclear? Word is, lots"

the true part: there are 30 million Obama era pages... but Obama didn't take them home (obviously), Nat'l Archives has them (as they should), & exactly zero are classified as they are going to a public library... & absolutely no one reported that 'many of them pertained to nuclear'... Trump just incredibly clearly made it up, in embarrassingly obvious fashion

yet, he pays no price from his cult whatsoever for that completely typical behavior

and his various propaganda defenders just blast out the FBI is corrupt, while saying nothing to defend his actions, as not possible...

seriously... who has offered a defense for him having these docs? the most loyal allies are willing to spout the nonsense declassified claim... then that's it, some say 'but Hillary!' which is acknowledgement of wrong-doing (as is the Trump lawyer comparing to overdue library book... still wrong-doing)... you don't resort to those defenses if nothing wrong done

there is no defense... no one gets to just keep 100s of classified docs, or 1 classified doc
(plus the 11,000+ other docs aren't his either)

but yeah, FBI was so corrupt in raiding after getting jerked around repeatedly, as Barr put it

craziness
Habebe
Member
Fri Sep 02 21:45:49
Just to clarify, my statement wasn't complimenting Trump (or fact checkers in general)
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Sat Sep 03 17:48:51
i guess the inevitable bullshit from the empty folders reveal:

"Sooo... the DOJ is now admitting the "classified" folders at Mar-a-Lago were empty... which means that they leaked that photo with no explanation to allow the corporate media to push a false narrative... got it."
~ Tim Young (Washington Times columnist)

"Holy shlit now they are admitting the Mar-a-Lago folders were empty"
~ Jack Posobiec (fraudosphere kingpin)

sigh...
Habebe
Member
Sat Sep 03 18:06:54
Well to clarify we know

He had a bunch of magazines & empty folders.

We don't know what the other few documents are, the FBI wont tell anyone.

Sofar we know he mostly had benign items taken.

And a few things we have no clue what they are.

The more info that comes out the better for Trump so far.
murder
Member
Sat Sep 03 18:08:49

Where do you think Brit Hume got his bullshit days ago?

=====================================

Brit Hume @brithume

What if Trump’s pile of papers is nothing more than a prop?

10:02 AM · Aug 31, 2022

http://twitter.com/brithume/status/1564976902510678020

tumbleweed
the wanderer
Sat Sep 03 19:29:34
“The more info that comes out the better for Trump so far.”

nope... 200 classified docs is 200 classified docs more than he’s allowed to have, regardless of contents (and not surprising in the slightest they haven’t revealed the contents)

-adding- that there were empty folders too, obviously in no way lessens anything

plus we now heard of 11,000! non-classified (or at least not marked) docs he’s also not supposed to have

plus we now have seen the certification on his behalf on all items returned when massively false

plus Trump has confessed that those docs were indeed in his office in ‘cartons’ (fuckhead had the need to mention they weren’t on the floor at his rally today too... and brought up Hillary’s emails to chants of ‘lock her up’ of course... um, so that means...)

anyway, I can name nothing that has been revealed that has made things look better for him, can’t even imagine what you are talking about... we knew from the start he had the shit mixed in with other meaningless shit which is evidence of carelessness, so again not helpful
Habebe
Member
Sun Sep 04 02:57:16
The way I see it most of what they found was empty folders (not a crime) & magazines.

How that gets spun into something nefarious seems crazy.
Habebe
Member
Sun Sep 04 02:58:27
Potentially classified docs could be anything.

Could be bad, maybe , depending what was taken, I have no idea.
Jesse Malcolm Barack
Member
Sun Sep 04 04:16:37
"The way I see it most of what they found was empty folders (not a crime) & magazines."

dude why do you expect anyone to read what you write when you just brazenly lie
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Sun Sep 04 11:36:11
"How that gets spun into something nefarious seems crazy"

so you anticipated way more than 200 classified documents? Sandy Berger - 1 document, Reality Winner - 1 document; the guy who took photos of some rooms the sub to show his family; all charged

plus you are not surprised he would have a lawyer certify (on his behalf) that all returned when huge amount not? (actually that IS expected if you can see Trump for who he is, but you cannot)
...which of course also justifies the search (that Fox/GOP continues to call corrupt), as nothing else was working (& witnesses confirmed he still had shit)

--------

"Potentially classified docs could be anything"

no 'potentially' about it... plastered w/ markings (which get crossed out if declassified) & his 'standing order to declassify all docs he takes home' that no one knows about & definitely didn't happen is so obviously a lie i feel stupid every time i mention it, but if you can't see it just on its face, then try to even think why someone would ever have a policy like that to begin with, it makes no sense

he's sitting in the office someday & says 'you know what, let's declassify anything i ever take home'... why... why would that happen? how would that ever make sense as a way to decide what is declassified?

(plus, self-evidently NEVER happened as these docs not marked in any way... & of course, no one remembers this policy, & adults never would've let it happen)
Habebe
Member
Sun Sep 04 13:09:47
"so you anticipated way more than 200 classified documents?"

With 15 boxes? Yeah.

So, if they are classified 100%, who classified them?

What statute states how the process of classification is handled?

Is it in the constitution? Because if not, I don't see how it is necessary unlessnthe SCOTUS has ruled that is the case.
murder
Member
Sun Sep 04 14:10:19

"What statute states how the process of classification is handled?"

It doesn't matter. The documents are government property and he stole them.

Forwyn
Member
Sun Sep 04 14:18:04
"Sandy Berger - 1 document, Reality Winner - 1 document; the guy who took photos of some rooms the sub to show his family; all charged"

None of them the President
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Sun Sep 04 16:25:59
neither is Trump


"who classified them?"
you're doubting the documents plastered w/ classification markings are classified?
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Sun Sep 04 16:37:47
does anyone have a defense for him other than declassified? a claim he made after caught that conveniently makes it impossible for him to have classified documents & requires no evidence of occurring: it was a standing order, if it didn't happen (which it didn't, at all), someone else screwed up... (& he can't possibly be expected to notice all the docs still have all their markings... & he can't possibly think when asked & subpoenaed to return them, 'maybe i should check if these docs are included in what they meant'...)

the guy who regularly made up transparent lies

you can't tell this guy is lying here? a 'standing order' to declassify anything he happens to take home seems plausible?... when he spent over a year of his 'presidency' at his properties... & none of the docs got marked... & no one remembers this order & various members of his admin say it's absurd & never would've happened...

let's still consider it a good defense... a solid enough one that the FBI shouldn't have raided his place... let's also ignore that even if every single one is declassified (an absurd belief) he's -still- not allowed to have them or the 11,000 other docs he had

good lord... just accept that he did something wrong for once... he is lawless garbage
Forwyn
Member
Sun Sep 04 17:28:55
"a 'standing order' to declassify anything he happens to take home seems plausible?"

Yes

Your baseless comparisons to random civilians makes it clear you're fundamentally unable to comprehend that the President is the only person in the world with unilateral declassification powers over any and all US documentation.

There is no Constitutional check against this power, as such a concept was not even provided for in the Constitution.

It is literally impossible for a standing President to violate any statutes regarding classified materials, and if the new President has concerns regarding materials in the possession of former Presidents, he is certainly entitled to reclaim them. Taking further legal action is unprecedented, especially when the individual in question has standing to run again.

Just take them and move on instead of crying and trying to disqualify him from a 2024 run which is the obvious impetus for banana republic idolizers.
murder
Member
Sun Sep 04 18:35:02

"Your baseless comparisons to random civilians makes it clear you're fundamentally unable to comprehend that the President is the only person in the world with unilateral declassification powers over any and all US documentation."

It never ceases to amaze me how right wingers long to be ruled by a king.


"There is no Constitutional check against this power ..."

Shockingly enough there is also no corresponding Constitutional power.


"It is literally impossible for a standing President to violate any statutes regarding classified materials ..."

As luck would have it, Joe Biden spoke the majic incantation "All documents in possession of Donald Trump are now classified and national secrets", and so by refusing to return to return them Donald Trump was committing acts of espionage.

After all, Presidents can do whatever the fuck they want.

tumbleweed
the wanderer
Sun Sep 04 19:04:39
"It is literally impossible for a standing President to violate any statutes regarding classified materials, and if the new President has concerns regarding materials in the possession of former Presidents, he is certainly entitled to reclaim them. Taking further legal action is unprecedented, especially when the individual in question has standing to run again."

he's not the standing president


"if the new President has concerns regarding materials in the possession of former Presidents, he is certainly entitled to reclaim them"

that's not what happened... Trump (or any ex-president) is not allowed to simply just loot the gov't of docs, classified or otherwise... Nat'l Archives requested shit back, Trump jerked them around, FBI got involved, Trump jerked them around

also... if you are so certain he's just allowed to do this, why is Kevin McCarthy & the rest of the GOP not demanding Trump be given back the classified docs? why... why... why... there HAS to be an answer

this is FUCKING CRAZY... like sooo fucking much about this obvious mentally-ill toddler fraud

(plus he did NOT declassify, why is NONE marked as such... why... why... why...)
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Sun Sep 04 19:23:54
and if your ‘standing president’ point was that he -could- issue a moronic standing order when he was ‘president’, i suppose he could... yet it’s an order that makes no sense to make, the -only- possible reason to give it is the exact scenario he’s in, purely selfish protection anticipating he’d break the law... kinda crazy, but let’s pretend he did... who remembers this policy? no one... and nothing got marked declassified so obviously wasn’t happening... and he obviously should’ve noticed...

option 2: Trump made a transparently obvious lie to cover his ass as is very standard behavior for him

quit being gullible idiots (plus he’s still not allowed to just take them even if declassified, just less of a crime)
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Sun Sep 04 21:09:12
if struggling to recall how he regularly makes shit up, here’s another definitely made-up comment by him... on same topic... with same motive

“"
President Barack Hussein Obama kept 33 million pages of documents, much of them classified. How many of them pertained to nuclear? Word is, lots!
"

do you think he got that from a news source? go waste your time looking, let me know your findings

so yeah, him making up obvious lies is what he does
Habebe
Member
Sun Sep 04 21:49:16
"It doesn't matter. The documents are government property and he stole them."

Has yet to be determined.

"who classified them?"
you're doubting the documents plastered w/ classification markings are classified?"

I'm doubting a textualist court would allow a technical proccess created with lower authority than the USC could contain and regulate a POTUS's authority over power he gets from article 2.

I get its a standard left wing go to, to assume and desire that these things be regulated often by un elected bodies like the FBI.

It would be like the FBI or even congress limiting pardon power without getting the overwhelming consesus needed to change the constitution.

You frustrate yourself because you are so desperate to fims anything him.

Even if he didn't declare them declassified, worst case scenario, your argument is a technicality.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Sun Sep 04 22:19:49
if he declassified, they would be marked, why are they not marked?

your entire evidence of them being declassified is the continual liar said he did it... after he was raided for having classified documents...


"Even if he didn't declare them declassified, worst case scenario, your argument is a technicality"

the technicality that he has committed multiple crimes? & confessed to it...
Jesse Malcolm Barack
Member
Sun Sep 04 22:20:25
"things be regulated often by un elected bodies like the FBI."

Why do you think these things should be investigated by an elected political body dude? Law enforcement doesn't have a political party, dude thinks we should vote for a head of something that wont investigate crimes into political parties he likes
Jesse Malcolm Barack
Member
Sun Sep 04 22:21:24
Habebe dude just admit you want to live under a king or dictator and have no interest in being in a democracy
Habebe
Member
Sun Sep 04 22:50:28
"if he declassified, they would be marked, why are they not marked?"

Labeling isn't required. Even still if it was (its not) tour argument is a technicality.

"your entire evidence of them being declassified is the continual liar said he did it... after he was raided for having classified documents..."

If the potus wants it declassified, it is. Everything else is you grasping at straws to catch him on a technicality that isn't even legally binding.

I will get $1000 that the SC, currently made up of textualist will agree that article 2 supercedes any EO or congressional "law"

This was also re affirmed im The Dept. Of the Navy V. Egan. (1988)


A potus has basically absolute authority to regulate classification status as the commander in cheif, seperate from any congressional authority.

Meaning he literally can set the rules how he does it. Biden right now could classify every government document he so chose, or declassify.

"the technicality that he has committed multiple crimes? & confessed to it..."

The technicality that he didn't label things a certain way. You agree he had that authority, your argument is he probably didnt because a label is on it.

But again these regulations come from lesser law.

Jesse, Why do you hate the US constitution?
Habebe
Member
Sun Sep 04 23:01:52
Jesse, Law enforcement, even the FBI does not alone have the authority to classify government documents, only by the president granting them an extension of his aithprity.
Jesse Malcolm Barack
Member
Sun Sep 04 23:16:47
Dude nobody said the FBI was classifying documents, they are ivnestigating crime. Your complaint was that the FBI isn't elected - what the fuzz does that have to do with anything?
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Sun Sep 04 23:43:58
"If the potus wants it declassified, it is."

there. is. ZERO. evidence. he. declassified. while. 'president'.

there WOULD be evidence if he had... secret declassification makes ZERO sense

in your view, every document in existence is now in a state of limbo as we don't know if Trump secretly declassified it (or classified it for that matter), does that make sense?

NO
Habebe
Member
Mon Sep 05 00:20:35
"there. is. ZERO. evidence. he. declassified. while. 'president'."

There are actually witnesses that claim otherwise.

"there WOULD be evidence if he had... secret declassification makes ZERO sense"

Your argument is that its secret if he didn't follow the standard procedure (that isn't legally binding)

So again, your argument boils down to a non legally binding technicality because it wasn't labeled.

Now, AFAIK, the espionage act is pretty vague and doesn't require it to be classified at all anyway.

Could he be guilty of something in that? Yes, but if you look at the law, so could any former high ranking official from how I understand it.

Basically the bar is they just need to show it was dangerous for national security, super vague with few details. Bad path to go down IMHO.

"in your view, every document in existence is now in a state of limbo as we don't know if Trump secretly declassified it (or classified it for that matter), does that make sense?"

Im saying it's a matter where its not illegal if the president does it.This is one of the.few instances that actually is true.

Legally speaking classification and the process regulating it falls on the whims of a president much like pardon power.

We can change that via a constitutional amendment, but so far we have not.
show deleted posts
Bookmark and Share