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Utopia Talk / Politics / Martha's Vineyard #2
Habebe
Member
Mon Sep 19 20:18:54
So lets recap the reasoning why after claiming to be a sanctuary city that doesn't work with federal agencies due to immigration status, that the Islanders had the military deport them (the federal military)

**For context NG troops are under dual authority and are often used by governors in similar manner to how State militaries are for disasters and crisis**

1. They said, they had no room.

But an island that recently housed over 100k people now down to 17k sounds like a place with plenty of room, mind you it was 50 people.

2. They said they lacked resources.

Its literally one of the wealthiest places in the world where people loke the Obamas, Clinton's, the Keneddy's

And billionaires Bill Gates, Reese witherspoon, Oprah, the CEO of Fidelity etc. all have homes.

They have plenty of resources and a staggering tax base + philanthropic base to work with.

3. Next they said, well they need to know in advance, don't just show up unannounced.

We agree 100%. This is what border states have been saying for years, only immigrate through designated points of entry, don't just show up and sneak in.

4. They claimed it was human trafficking. Its not.

There is some weirdo local sheriff "investigating" the incident, but it isn't going anywhere, he doesn't have a lef to stand on.

So I think we can all agree we need to only let those who are coming in with advanced notice through designated points of entry immigrate.

Forwyn
Member
Mon Sep 19 21:40:06
MARTHA’S VINEYARD, Mass.—While some locals have claimed that the illegal immigrants who arrived on this wealthy island should go elsewhere since there wouldn’t be work for them with the summer rush gone, the local newspaper has listed 50 help wanted ads in a recent issue, and the local supermarket chain has been known to need help all year long.

The classified section of the Vineyard Gazette listed more than 50 jobs in the same issue that ran a story about the illegal aliens, referring to them as “stranded migrants.” The job ads included positions for laborers, custodians, landscapers, bakers, cooks, dishwashers, technicians, library assistant, and several retail positions.

The local YMCA also listed several job openings, including housekeepers, ice arena workers, and a front desk administrator. The spacious Y, located near where the illegal immigrants spent the night at St. Andrew’s Episcopal Church, shares a complex with Martha’s Vineyard Community Services (MVCS), which also ran a help wanted ad in the paper, including a job for administrative assistant, “bilingual preferred.”

MVCS didn’t respond to a request for comment by press time. The outreach center and the island’s homeless shelter told the media that they didn’t have room for the illegal aliens.
Forwyn
Member
Mon Sep 19 21:43:47
lmfao

"Bexar County Sheriff Javier Salazar, a Democrat, said he was opening up a criminal investigation into migrants that were "lured" from the Migrant Resource Center under "false pretenses" and flown to Florida, where they were ultimately left to fend for themselves in Martha’s Vineyard, he said in a video message to announce the probe.

In a statement, [DeSantis'] office said migrants have been abandoned in Bexar County and "left to fend for themselves."

"Florida gave them an opportunity to seek greener pastures in a sanctuary jurisdiction that offered greater resources for them, as we expected. Unless the MA national guard has abandoned these individuals, they have been provided accommodations, sustenance, clothing and more options to succeed following their unfair enticement into the United States, unlike the 53 immigrants who died in a truck found abandoned in Bexar County this June," the statement said, referring to the deaths of 53 migrants found in a locked commercial in San Antonio truck earlier this year."
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Mon Sep 19 21:51:32
how many of the 50 said they even wanted to live there? is anyone even asking that? none of them asked to go there, DeSantis picked it... & again, not hypocritical at all to move them to a place more suited to house & feed them temporarily

100k pop down to 17k pop doesn't mean there is housing for them... no one is telling anyone anywhere to just give away their vacation homes to immigrants

& i'm sure they're welcome to apply for any job once legally permitted to work

again... who is asking Texans to just hand out jobs, homes, etc
obaminated
Member
Mon Sep 19 21:53:09
"Did anyone even bother to ask the illegal immigrants where they wanted to live???"
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Mon Sep 19 22:01:57
-your- side keeps saying they all should have been settled there at the place the governor of Florida picked for them or the liberals are hypocrites... why is the governor of Florida given this authority?

some have family other places, but now they must live where the governor of Florida chose for them...

there's no reason whatsoever they should automatically be settled there... one of the least practical places to settle them actually
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Mon Sep 19 22:10:11
if their asylum claims are approved, they should live wherever they want

if they become illegal, they'd be best off moving to a sanctuary city, which Martha's Vineyard is not
kargen
Member
Mon Sep 19 22:26:46
If they can force hotels to house illegal immigrants then why not private homes? The hotels are privately owned.

"some have family other places, but now they must live where the governor of Florida chose for them..."

bullshit. They could easily say no. Some did. And even if they did have to go where the governor wanted them to go (detained until deported comes to mind) that is the consequence of the choice they made when they decided to break the law.

and this is simply an extension of the policy Biden put in place with the late night flights. THe real question is when will the federal government pay back the states of Florida and Texas for the costs they've racked up continuing Biden's plan of relief and relocation.
Forwyn
Member
Mon Sep 19 22:59:56
"-your- side keeps saying they all should have been settled there at the place the governor of Florida picked for them or the liberals are hypocrites..."

Yes. If you sit up in fucking New England and cheer illegal immigration and salivate at the thought of them flipping Florida and Texas while you sit insulated a few thousand miles away, and then panic and call the fucking National Guard for a measly 50, and then have your legacy media echo a chorus about the cRuEl LiEs told by a psychotic human trafficker governor, you're a hypocrite, and more lol
Habebe
Member
Mon Sep 19 23:13:52
"how many of the 50 said they even wanted to live there? is anyone even asking that? none of them asked to go there, DeSantis picked it"

Who doesn't want to live there?

This is absurd, what immigrant when asking where they want to go chooses El Paso over Martha's vineyard?

"there's no reason whatsoever they should automatically be settled there... one of the least practical places to settle them actually"

What is not practical? Its an affluent neighborhood where for the next 9 months they have so much unused space to house people.

You don't have to give it away, make some arraingments.

Or do what happens in elpaso, when the facilities are over run they camp.

You could easily camp on the beach and it would better off than the streets of elpaso.


Lets be brutally honest about what the deal is, rich people dont want poor immigrants in their neighborhood.

They have a picturesque seaside island and they don't want it flooded with border crosses and tent dwellers, and yet they advocate.for policies that crest that scenario elsewhere.

Same with Biden's plans for the suburbs, he wants low income housing flooding the suburbs.

But could you imagine the response if they had the projects suddenlt pop up on the island?

I beleive Michelle Obama would call it "white flight" or others "affluent flight"

Property values would plummet.
Habebe
Member
Mon Sep 19 23:17:58
Forum, You should really sign and share this petition.Its fucking brilliant.

http://chng.it/9ZJs2jpjdS
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Mon Sep 19 23:35:35
"What is not practical?"

it's an island, and largely seasonal population


"Its an affluent neighborhood where for the next 9 months they have so much unused space to house people."

those are private homes (i assume)


"Or do what happens in el paso, when the facilities are over run they camp."

there -are- no facilities... they ate in a school & slept in a church


"You could easily camp on the beach and it would better off than the streets of elpaso."

that's preferable to moving them to actual housing facilities?

-----------------------

"If they can force hotels to house illegal immigrants then why not private homes?"

i don't know the hotel policy details but i assume more of a last resort than a first option... feeling a need to house them within 5 miles of where DeSantis put them makes no sense... if they have actual facilities they can use, why not use them
Habebe
Member
Tue Sep 20 00:45:08
"those are private homes (i assume)
"

Many are hotels and B&BS, airBnBs etc.

Even still the town is basically off season. But can easily handle 5x that amount.

Now let's be clear, Republicans like this spot because its a well known rich liberal area.

Im not dissmissing that. But it is also a near perfect place to house people.

"there -are- no facilities... they ate in a school & slept in a church"

There ARE NO FACILITIES for the majority of people in El Paso as well. I think I read they can house 3k and have over 1300/ day.

"that's preferable to moving them to actual housing facilities?"

Probably not, but no one seems keen on shipping 10k a day to NYC/LA/Chicago/DC etc.

Like 1% are getting shipped elsewhere, if that. It all lands on border towns.

Ideally they would coordinate, but NYC & DC don't want a few hundred, let alone thousands a day, if they really want to do this right

Break up all sanctuary destinations and send a chunk to each regularly.

I would say evenly, but it also would depend on the size/resources of the location.
kargen
Member
Tue Sep 20 02:30:56
One of the most stupid parts of this whole story is the local paper ran an article that said in part it was a bad idea to send the immigrants because there are no jobs for the immigrants. Same edition of the paper in the help wanted section had more than 50 jobs available many of them being manual labor. Cooks, dishwashers, landscapers, grocery baggers that type thing.

jergul
large member
Tue Sep 20 02:47:38
That is quite typical of island getaways. Sure there are jobs, but lack of accomodations are the bottleneck that keeps to jobs from being filled.

Sort of a moot point anyway. The people sent there are not allowed to work.

The GOP should do this stunt again with unemployed felons :).
jergul
large member
Tue Sep 20 02:50:22
habebe
You thinking the State should eminent domain air bnbs, or should it merely cover the cost of illegal aliens living there?

Not sure what you angle is on your practical solutions.
Rugian
Member
Tue Sep 20 05:31:39
"That is quite typical of island getaways. Sure there are jobs, but lack of accomodations are the bottleneck that keeps to jobs from being filled."

MV is serviced by regularly-scheduled 45-minute ferries from the mainland.

Sure its not *the* easiest commute, but its certainly doable.
Cherub Cow
Member
Tue Sep 20 06:12:39
[Habebe]: "You should really sign and share this petition.Its fucking brilliant."

lol. That's perfect :D
I'm sure the building codes near the Obama mansion are strangely repelling of Khrushchyovka-style projects that always have the slow motor-vibration sounds of a hundred window units, but the community can really come together and make this happen!

[Forwyn]: "you're a hypocrite, and more lol"

This honestly might be one of the DNC's most transparent projection and gas-lighting operations. I've been reading the DNC talking points expecting *something* semi-valid to appear after this long, but they have fuckall. Every single talking point is a repackaged GOP talking point that they're hoping will be okay when *they* say it. Like, just pretend that tw's comments are coming from a right-wing person talking about immigrants crossing into El Paso. It's fucking amazing :D

Their best meme-sters are just shouting, "[*Christians* do this??]", which is pathetic, since it just points out that they — having purged Christianity from their Marxist paradigm — are worse by comparison ("[It's okay for us to do it because we're immoralists, but you Christians shouldn't be doing it!! Only *you* should talk responsibility for anything!!]"). XD

DeSantis is god-tier with this move. The pitch meeting must have been incredible.
patom
Member
Tue Sep 20 12:04:46
http://www...alls-flat-on-marthas-vineyard/
Habebe
Member
Tue Sep 20 12:14:58
Patom, Even you should be able to enjoy this. I know we are on opposite sides of the aisle, but we both love to fuck with hypocritical rich snobs.
Habebe
Member
Tue Sep 20 12:15:58
Hell, we both probably sided with Bernie the other day over the railroad strike.

Plenty in common.
Habebe
Member
Tue Sep 20 12:21:04
Jergul, I'm open to practical solutions.

For the immediate Id say the local islanders pay for a solution and they can put in a request to FEMA for reimbursements like Elpaso does.

But Gavin Newsom wants motels to force them to take homeless ppl, so it seems popular amongst the left.

For long term, sure eminent domain some mega estate if they can't buy land to build a few apartment complexes.

Honestly, Id rent an apt./condo for a few weeks and stay myself, great fishing/boating.
patom
Member
Tue Sep 20 14:05:48
Habebe. I love a joke as much as the next guy. But I draw the line with a stunt like this. Using people innocent people to make a point? I find that pretty fucking low on a scale of 1 to 10. I don't ever want to hear those who admire this action praising Jesus or any other Deity.
earthpig
GTFO HOer
Tue Sep 20 14:31:19
This was very transparently a political stunt. No one actually thinks moving 50 migrants to this city or that will matter. There's a river, and we're debating the disposition of a glass of water.

Staunch dem voters will auto-condemn, staunch rep voters will auto-defend. Whatever.

What actually matters is how swing voters and political donors will take it.

It may very well be the case that it's unclear how the bulk of swing voters will take it, but it gets people taking out their checkbooks on both sides of the aisle, which means it'll end up being a win (since it's rewarding bad behavior) for the extremists (Marxists and Trump supporters), and a loss for the rest of the country, the normal sane people.
kargen
Member
Tue Sep 20 14:40:00
Sure it is a stunt but there is a goal to achieve with this stunt and I think it has been achieved. Most the media and one side of the political aisle wouldn't even admit the river existed. Now they at least have to admit there just might be a real problem. Can't find solutions if the problems are ignored.
Texas and Florida need to keep sending illegal immigrants to sanctuary states/cities to keep the story in the news. Eventually more people will become aware of how devastating are current border policies are for the communities and the immigrants and maybe someone will finally be willing to do something.
Habebe
Member
Tue Sep 20 14:54:38
"Using people innocent people to make a point? I find that pretty fucking low on a scale of 1 to 10. I don't ever want to hear those who admire this action praising Jesus or any other Deity."

This is a common liberal argument I hear, but it holds no water.

The migrants fared way better than 99% of migrants. FFS they went to a billionaire vacation island, how bad could it be? Billionaires don't vacation in Harlem or Newark.

So they ended up better off.They went where they wanted to go.

And this is not using people to make a point anymore than a million other things.

For example flooding red states with millions of them and the few that work their way up get flown back down to FLA. How is that better for the migrants?

------

EP, The Border is the GOPs best issue even slightly nudging out handling of the economy. Even recent NBC polls show 2 to 1 + on that, and again it's NBC, not FOX polling.

Notice how the story changed from Grahams federal ban on abortion to immigration overnight?

Abortion being the issue that Dems win in polling heavily, its their best issue.

Education is funny, traditionally a Democratic winner, much more mixed anymore. When the conversation is about CRT (Youngkin) and "woke" teachers etc. Republicans actually were ahead in that department because they found a great wedge issue and focused on larents rights issues and overnight a forest had grown of parents right advocacy groups and school.board election wins.
earthpig
GTFO HOer
Tue Sep 20 14:55:26
We need to fix the economies and political systems of all of Central America? O.o

This is basic supply and demand, no different than guns or drugs or whores. If there's demand for coyotes and human trafficking (inclusive of Florida and Texas governors demanding human trafficking services), the supply will be created.

"But those who can afford it, vote with their feet and migrate: Since 2018, at least 200,000 people have escaped Nicaragua (that’s conservatively 5 percent of its population), especially after the electoral fraud in November 2021. The majority of those people have come to the United States."

http://the...d-fueling-migration-to-the-us/
Habebe
Member
Tue Sep 20 14:56:32
kargen, For the most part FLA loves immigrants. They don't get overwhelming numbers like Texas does and they fit into existing communities well.

Now if they were getting several thousand a daily, it might be an issue.
earthpig
GTFO HOer
Tue Sep 20 15:14:12
I'm curious what companies are providing these human trafficking bus and flight services. Visibility on that would be nice.
Habebe
Member
Tue Sep 20 15:41:24
EP, I seen it online that they have two flights scheduled from San Antonio to Biden's house in Delaware.

Some guy was checking out flight records and these stuck out. I'll see if I can find it.

Also, you don't really think this is human trafficking, do you?
Habebe
Member
Tue Sep 20 15:44:54
http://twi...?t=Dfs43FjTE-zvll_PG6PxlQ&s=19

Best I could find.
Habebe
Member
Tue Sep 20 15:47:35
If that info is to be beleived, here is the Ohio airline beleived to be flying them.

They may not be the same for all or even accurate. The source was Twitter, so...yeah

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultimate_Air_Shuttle

earthpig
GTFO HOer
Tue Sep 20 15:51:08
Website is down, guess we're late to the party.

http://ultimateairshuttle.com/
Habebe
Member
Tue Sep 20 15:53:30
http://twi...?t=LFmZwktexNwBcOz85bPDiA&s=19

This is supposedly a local guy taking pics at the airport and found 4 sheriffs at one plane to be suspicious.

Now I also find it funny the same ppl who will claim the FBI director was appointed by Trump ( or many similar claims) will argue that ICE being under control of the executive branch means nothibf hen regarding their actions.
Habebe
Member
Tue Sep 20 15:56:12
They should really pivot their approach and got for quantity, aim for 1300 daily to DC.
Habebe
Member
Tue Sep 20 20:29:15
So apparently all that Twitter sleuthing , was a farce.

Desantis wouldn't confirm or deny the accusations, so everyone assumed he was flying them to Biden's house. Apparently the WH prepared to make a big scene out of the incident etc.

All sorts of media was present, and it wad nothing. People got overly paranoid and jumped the gun for nothing.

Jeane Pierre said he was playing games with people's lives, but he literally did nothing this time.

His response was they should have waited for an official reply instead of listening to some Twitter rumours.But he is very happy everyone is still talking about the border.

Remember folks, when your opponent is making a mistake, don't stop them.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Tue Sep 20 21:23:42
maybe the plane crashed


“His response was they should have waited for an official reply“

why? he purposely gives no notice
Habebe
Member
Tue Sep 20 23:39:12
Tw, It landed in NJ but apparently just had regular passengers on it.

I'm unsure if thr Desantis team leaked stuff to internet journalists, or figured out ppl were onto those planes, maybe this was just all online speculation over nothing from him at all.

No clue.

Also MV was given a 20 minute heads up.
Habebe
Member
Tue Sep 20 23:59:15
However...plot twist (although not unexpected)

Apparently the MV people after comparing the migrants to literal garbage, were now quoted as saying "I told them it was like a dormitory, I didn't want to say you are going to a military base"


But then claim Desantis mislead them with a brochure of Massachusetts...
patom
Member
Wed Sep 21 04:19:40
Since the recent trend seems to be, 'let the states handle it'. How about if Mass. or Del. issue work permits to any who are flown to their state from Texas or Fla. or Az. Maybe that would light a fire under Congress useless asses to get something done. There's lots of work to be had in the Del/Mar/Va peninsula at the Chicken Farms. I'm sure they could absorb quite a few migrants.
murder
Member
Wed Sep 21 07:32:22

"kargen, For the most part FLA loves immigrants."

No Florida does not. Not only do the crackers hate them, but even past immigrants are adopting the anti-immigrant "lock the door behind me" mindset more and more.

No doubt because they are Republicans and well "GO TEAM!"

murder
Member
Wed Sep 21 07:36:20

"Since the recent trend seems to be, 'let the states handle it'. How about if Mass. or Del. issue work permits to any who are flown to their state from Texas or Fla. or Az. Maybe that would light a fire under Congress useless asses to get something done. There's lots of work to be had in the Del/Mar/Va peninsula at the Chicken Farms. I'm sure they could absorb quite a few migrants."

The real problem is that certain states are in rebellion and the federal government has so far declined to put them in their place.

habebe
Member
Wed Sep 21 12:23:04
"even past immigrants are adopting the anti-immigrant "lock the door behind me" mindset more and more."

The issue couldn't possibly be supporting orderly legal immigration over chaos and overwhelming the system.

Patom, That sounds reasonable.
habebe
Member
Wed Sep 21 12:28:21
"The real problem is that certain states are in rebellion and the federal government has so far declined to put them in their place."

Murder, We agree sanctuary cities are a problem.

As long as those permits to work are good state wide only.

One of the big issues is they drive down wages.
habebe
Member
Wed Sep 21 12:33:09
Apparently the migrants are managing Desantis. For misleading them and vertigo....hahahaha
murder
Member
Wed Sep 21 13:04:50

"The issue couldn't possibly be supporting orderly legal immigration over chaos and overwhelming the system."

No it really couldn't. Because all those people who claim that's what it's about wouldn't know one immigrant from another or how they got here.

There isn't a reason in the world for someone in South Carolina to give a fuck whether an immigrant crossed the border lawfully or unlawfully. They are here for the exact same reason to work and improve their lives and the lives of their families.

earthpig
GTFO HOer
Wed Sep 21 14:59:16
Cuba, Venezuela, and Nicaragua are three states going through failures of communism. All three are in Vladimir Putin's sphere of influence, a decent proxy measure of which is being among the very small minority of countries to "recognize" Crimea as Russian territory following 2014.

They are also where the overwhelming majority of the recent migration uptick is from.

I'm sure the consequence of this playing into the hands of those in our domestic politics most likely to be Putin appeasers is just a happy coincidence (cross reference the opinions held in this thread, with the Ukraine threads, for more details), not unlike how cutting off fuel to Western Europe is likely going to help get more Putin appeasers elected there too. All totally just a coincidence.
patom
Member
Wed Sep 21 17:22:17
What are sanctuary cities? What do they mean by sanctuary?

Answer. They mean that those city police are not going to do ICE's job for them. They are not preventing ICE from doing their job inside city limits. The city PDs are busy enough handling their regular duties without adding to the work load.
earthpig
GTFO HOer
Wed Sep 21 18:30:21
Sanctuary city status did not prevent Trump from sending random federal law enforcement officers to Seattle in 2020 on incredibly flimsy pretexts.
Habebe
Member
Wed Sep 21 19:03:34
"There isn't a reason in the world for someone in South Carolina to give a fuck whether an immigrant crossed the border lawfully or unlawfully. They are here for the exact same reason to work and improve their lives and the lives of their families."

This is a poor state. They drive down wages.

For evidence, when Trump had limited the amount of immigrants staying here we seen sharp increases in wages.

People at the bottom end of the pay scale seen some of the biggest increases.

There is a myth of a labor shortage, their is a compensation shortage. This was a natural way to add leverage to increase wages.

Which IMO is a better route than a massive federal min. Wage because it still allows regional variance.


We may not see a solution to the issue without either taking out or enforcing a deal on the cartels.

Use the military as leverage, permit drugs to flow across the border, stop people and fentynall.

If they refuse, kill them, if they abide, let them reap some drug profits.
Habebe
Member
Wed Sep 21 19:25:52
"There isn't a reason in the world for someone in South Carolina to give a fuck whether an immigrant crossed the border lawfully or unlawfully. They are here for the exact same reason to work and improve their lives and the lives of their families."

That's also pretty rich from someone who's primary cause is funding a foreign nation we have no stake in, almost no trade and no alliance with.
murder
Member
Wed Sep 21 19:50:39

"That's also pretty rich from someone who's primary cause is funding a foreign nation we have no stake in, almost no trade and no alliance with."

We have every stake in that fight. The invading nation has the most nukes in the world pointing at the US.

Habebe
Member
Wed Sep 21 20:02:06
"We have every stake in that fight. The invading nation has the most nukes in the world pointing at the US."

And Them conquering the Ukraine makes them more likley to use them?
murder
Member
Wed Sep 21 20:15:42

Yes, an expansionist Russia guarantees war with NATO and the US.

Habebe
Member
Wed Sep 21 20:22:01
Illegals crossing the border are smuggling nuclear weapons.
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