Utopia Talk / Politics / The Jedi on natural death & the force

Habebe Member	Thu Sep 22 00:43:06 Was I wrong to think that the sort of life extension that Darth plageius the wise was working on by keeping people alive through direct manipulation of midichlorians was forbidden and unnatural to the Jedi? The primary source of this knowledge is Palpatine. But Yoda has talked about death being natural and rejoicing in those who become one with the force etc. But I feel like there was something more concrete about it. I still stand by that being the case though, it meshes with their religious zealotry.
Habebe Member	Thu Sep 22 00:50:06 I havn't seen Andor or even Obi Wan yet. I heard Obi wan fucks men now. Wtf Disney? Let the light saber jokes begin....
obaminated Member	Thu Sep 22 03:00:14 The dark side fears death. The light side accepts it.
Habebe Member	Thu Sep 22 12:40:53 I don't think I ever want to mention SW on Twitter again. You thought ppl in politics will endlessly defend their tribe. Tell these ppl the Jedi are a creepy cult of religious zealots and the Empire is fascist. Jeebus christ
murder Member	Thu Sep 22 15:00:31 Nerds :o)
kargen Member	Thu Sep 22 16:10:24 All I know is that logic clearly dictates that the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.
Habebe Member	Thu Sep 22 16:27:07 All I'm saying is the Jedi are pretty fucking nutty and seem closer to the Taliban than holy oeace keepers. 1. They raise child soldiers and tell them to sever ties with their family, train them to kill and nor feel emotion and rejoice in desthnto become part of something bigger. That sounds pretty fucking scary religious whackjobbery. They are above the law, do not follow through with due process, always think They are right, routinely make people act against their will And in the SWU they are the ones actuslly responsible for the "Sith Holocaust" after winning in battle, the Sith empire defeated, surrendered and were nothing. They decided to to commit actual genocide and exterminate the surrendered people with the goal of killing off everyone ofntheir species. In the name of religion mind you. These are not nice people.
Rugian Member	Thu Sep 22 16:30:30 "heard Obi wan fucks men now." Are you fucking kidding...what the actual fuck. I thought it was bad enough that they named Obi Wan's home planet after Jon Stewart. But that...wow. Woke Disney is truly the worst.
Habebe Member	Thu Sep 22 17:22:36 So I googled it, apparently it's just in the new spin off novel, but it's still like, cant they just not change shit and come up with their own woke stories? I think they realized that generally new woke stories suck and are money pits, so they have to cling to existing franchises and queer them up, here is what I found from Google. "Some readers have interpreted this scene as the Jedi coming out as bisexual, while others think he may be asexual/aromantic. Either way, fans are thrilled that Obi-Wan could be canonically queer. OBI-WAN CANONICALLY CONFIRMED AS BI/ACE IS A WIN FOR THE HISTORY BOOKS!"
obaminated Member	Thu Sep 22 17:35:36 The jedi are like the taliban in that they train child soldiers and that's about it. They don't kill people who don't believe in the force and they actively seek peaceful resolution over violence to achieve their ends. Also they don't round up children at random, they are very specific about it and it isn't kidnapping. Being taken into the jedi order is viewed quite highly, akin to peasant being taken into a noble house to be trained as a knight. 99% of the galaxy wishes they had that opportunity. Sith will nab anyone and turn them into sith if they have enough force ability or into the Order if they don't.
Habebe Member	Thu Sep 22 17:55:45 "The jedi are like the taliban in that they train child soldiers and that's about it. They don't kill people who don't believe in the force and they actively seek peaceful resolution over violence to achieve their ends." My argument is that they sound nice and the good guys at first glance ans their ideals to do good, but so do most horrible regimes/cults etc. Yes, plenty of relatively good guys in the Jedi order. But the order in general seems very corruptable. Again the Sith Holocaust was pretty talking on how its bad to expect them to just act in good faith, or if you follow Ashoka , she was trested pretty bad and that female friend of hers (I forget who) was turned towards the dark side by their religious dogma.Not an uncommon thing in the stories, the strongest Sith were often reformed Jedis.
Pillz Member	Thu Sep 22 20:10:12 Haven't read the thread but: In the old EU which is now Legacy I guess, Sith Lord's had previously resurrected themselves by imbuing sith holocrons with their soul and then possessing those who opened them. I think this was only really successful once, I don't remember which series it was. In both KotOR games I believe you fight the spirits of ancient Sith Lord's that appeared from Holocrons, or perhaps just in 1. Not 100% sure. Of course the most classic examples of sith or jedi escaping death/being immortal come from KotOR 2. - The exile saved her life by cutting off her connection to the force so completely she was almost a 40k blank - Darth Traya also saved herself by cutting herself off from the force. But she wasn't immortal, just stupid powerful. - Darth Nihilius become not just a void but a succubus, a black hole that devoured the force on a planetary scale. He was immortal, and I believe he was brought back for TOR or something in some lame way. - Darth Sion was a walking corpse. He held his body together with the force. Again, immortal. I don't think any of the KotOR 2 villains should ever be revived. They were broken, damaged beings dependent on the force - in Nihilius case literally just a specter of hunger. When Sion died, that was his soul relinquishing everything. He didn't become one with the force, he let go. Nihilius is a bit different in that he was just flat out beaten, but the fact that he was just a cancerous void in the force given form, I feel like his death should be final. Otherwise they've created a literal God I guess, which I don't approve of developmentally for the character or for Star Wars. And Traya... Traya probably has the most potential for a revival in canon. In some ways you could argue she let go and her soul lost, but not 'one with' the force. On the other hand it'd be trivial to say otherwise and let her force spectre appear and deus ex machina her into resurrecting herself. For all intents and purposes she was the most powerful force user to exist by that point in history¹ Revan is alive in TOR, or was? I feel like it takes place a long while after KotOR1 and 2 and hed (shed) logically have died... But Revan was about as powerful as Traya and apparently became the Sith's bitch so idk, never played/followed TOR. Anyways, star wars is shit ever since Disney bought it and retired the EU. If Obi-wan is gay its even more shit because even in disney canon he had a bitch in the clone wars cartoon. It was a major story line and everything iirc, she got kidnapped or some shit. Also, outside of the example of Star Killer, despite what the EU gives as examples for the sith pre- and post-rule of two, I don't see how any Jedi or Sith we see is stronger than the major Jedi and Sith players of the KotOR era. The ancient sith pose a bigger question. But I feel like both organizations lost an incredible amount in the thousands of years between the sith war and the clone wars, and we only began to see their strength re-emerge with Yoda, Windu, Sidious and Vader. None of whom I would say stood a chance against Revan. But anyways fuck star wars
Pillz Member	Thu Sep 22 20:12:30 Oh, I ended up reading a little: The Jedi are very clearly not good guys, and that's why so many leave. They fall to the dark side, but it's not why they leave. Revan, Traya, the exile. Also I was mistaken - the exile had her connection to the force cut by the council and it saved her. Traya cut herself off intentionally to save her life.
Habebe Member	Thu Sep 22 20:17:24 "Sith Lord's had previously resurrected themselves by imbuing sith holocrons with their soul and then possessing those who opened them. I think this was only really successful once, I don't remember which series it was." I think it was an animated series. "Darth Nihilius become not just a void but a succubus, a black hole that devoured the force on a planetary scale. He was immortal, and I believe he was brought back for TOR or something in some lame way." I remember stumbling upon him on a nerdy rabbit hole, interesting character. The origins of General Greivous were pretty cool too. No point to really be made, just Saying.
Pillz Member	Thu Sep 22 20:47:49 Play KotOR 1 & 2 Theyre on steam.
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