Utopia Talk / Politics / Putin's invasion of Ukraine

murder Member	Tue Sep 27 20:10:15 http://twitter.com/TheRaysin/status/1574235985512202241
jergul large member	Wed Sep 28 14:23:19 Looks like Russia is holding off on annexation according to a regime critical source. It got the motive wrong though. Russia is merely pondering if it wants to extend its nuclear umbrella into Ukraine or not. Amazon.gov deliveries: http://med.../UKRAINE-FACT-SHEET-SEP-28.PDF
Sam Adams Member	Wed Sep 28 14:40:23 US doubles number of himars to ukraine. Stop whimpering pillz.
jergul large member	Wed Sep 28 14:51:22 Sammy Why? The limiting factor should be missiles, not launchers. Why does Ukraine need 18 new HIMARs?
Sam Adams Member	Wed Sep 28 14:56:18 To blow up more russian filth, thats why.
murder Member	Wed Sep 28 15:05:16 "Why? The limiting factor should be missiles, not launchers. Why does Ukraine need 18 new HIMARs?" To threaten more targets and give them more options.
williamthebastard Member	Wed Sep 28 15:23:14 since the lines now are likely going to freeze over into a stalemate all winter and Ukraine needs as much gains as possible before it begins to snow, just fucking give em everything
jergul large member	Wed Sep 28 15:43:55 WtB Winter is a good time for operations. Mild and wet is the killer. Murder Maybe. It could also be time to rotate out the vehicles. Not sure how long they can operate on what is conceptually detached forward positioning (disconnected from most of the vehicles' OandE in US charts) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSZJwmYu_QQ
williamthebastard Member	Wed Sep 28 16:16:45 Im noticing some interesting psychological things my former classmate from St Petersburg, who's now in Belarus, is going through. He's finally dropped his support for Putin, who he now calls an insane warmonger. However, he still argues that there was a Nazi genocide going on in Donbass. He seems to be having trouble fully admitting all at once how wrong he was, too much of a blow to his identity, so he's processing it in steps. Another thing Im noticing is how he completely complies with this stereotype of Russians not caring about Ukraine until it suddenly landed on their doorstep. He repeats angrily that Putin promised that civilians wouldnt be drawn into this, as if his main complaint isnt that Putin started murdering the neighbours next door but that they had an agreement. But what actually seems to be going on is that the Russians have learned to keep their heads down the way you do if you live in a mafia hood. Never look strangers in the eye, you never saw nuthin', you never heard nuthin', you know the street rules.
williamthebastard Member	Wed Sep 28 16:34:04 He also gets support for his flailing attempts to salvage some dignity from western fucks like Rogan, here's the latest link he sent me to show how the West is sort of equally to blame http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVXzwnU1H6U
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Wed Sep 28 16:44:22 You know, because sovereign nation occupied and raped by Russia for 80 years should still be treated like vassals of Russia. We had a deal that they were Russias bitches. C'mon man, we had a deal! Awww now look what you made us do.
swordtail Anarchist Prime	Wed Sep 28 17:01:36 "Why does Ukraine need 18 new HIMARs?" cause most of the original ones they received,have gone to that great scrapyard in the sky. just like the other wunderwaffe.
jergul large member	Wed Sep 28 18:18:20 Nimi The Russian Lenin's NEP was indeed traumatic. You are arguing it got better when the Georgians Stalin and Beria took over, or was the improvement from The Ukrainians Khruschev's and Breshnev's era? The USSR was a joint project in other words.
murder Member	Wed Sep 28 19:29:15 "US doubles number of himars to ukraine." http://twitter.com/annamelissa/status/1575179922527559680
habebe Member	Wed Sep 28 20:24:22 Polling suggests a 312% landslide victory in favor not annexation.
Rugian Member	Wed Sep 28 20:26:21 "Congress in March approved its first $13.6 billion Ukraine supplemental aid package. Lawmakers tripled that funding in May with a $40 billion package of military, economic and food aid for Ukraine and U.S. allies, which the White House says was designed to last through September. This third supplemental package will bring the total amount of aid to Ukraine that Congress has allocated so far this year to more than $65 billion."" http://www...3-billion-ukraine-aid-package/ $65 billion to fund a war in Europe. And that's not counting whatever off-the-books crap the administration is invariably doing. murder, I don't ever want to hear you whining again about how much money we throw at exploring the universe.
habebe Member	Wed Sep 28 20:51:02 "murder, I don't ever want to hear you whining again about how much money we throw at exploring the universe." He hates that Israel gets $3 Billion a year, while the Ukraine gets that weekly. I'm not a fan of foreign aid in general, but jesus Christ!
murder Member	Thu Sep 29 00:11:40 "murder, I don't ever want to hear you whining again about how much money we throw at exploring the universe." Explore your ass off. Just keep it unmanned and make sure shit actually works and serves a purpose.
murder Member	Thu Sep 29 00:14:25 "He hates that Israel gets $3 Billion a year, while the Ukraine gets that weekly." Israel doesn't need the money. And more importantly I hate that Israel has enough control over our elected officials and media to secure several billion dollars a year in tribute.
williamthebastard Member	Thu Sep 29 04:47:25 Redacted - another Foxnews-related far-right site that my Russian buddy and his friends have been using to get an "objective" Western understanding. Of course, theyre only getting Western pro-Putin propaganda which serves to strengthen Russians faith in Putin. These Western pro-Putinists are important sources of propaganda, effectively employed to protect the Putin regime.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Thu Sep 29 04:48:44 Jergul You know a few years ago, I was debating racism in the USA with you and seb, I put forward all kinds of arguments and data. It never occurred to me that I merely needed to point to the election of Barack Hussein Obama, the black man of Kenya and muslim descent. Because that would be facile.
williamthebastard Member	Thu Sep 29 04:51:04 The fact that they're Western lends them lots of credibility in Russia. A Foxnews or similar anti-Ukraine piece of lies gets millions of views in Russia, and they're all sitting their nodding their heads at Tucker going, yeah, this confirms that Ukraine is a Nazi country that attacked us. Carlson et al are a highly potent anti-Western weapon.
Seb Member	Thu Sep 29 05:14:34 WtB: Interesting perspective - I hadn't considered that angle.
TheChildren Member	Thu Sep 29 05:54:11 who u idiots playin 4 dumb now. http://youtu.be/WVXzwnU1H6U?t=348 dude pretty much nostradamussed da whole thing 8 years ago and surprise suprise russia intervened 8 years later.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Thu Sep 29 06:17:07 Seb Member Thu Sep 29 05:14:34 WtB: Interesting perspective - I hadn't considered that angle. You had not considered that western media and what it says is *frequently* used by various non-western people/countries/organization to lend credibility to their cause and detract from their opponents. Really?
williamthebastard Member	Thu Sep 29 06:47:59 Social media does bring all kinds of communicated propaganda to hitherto unseen levels, though. Not only does the regime seize on and distribute every usable piece of "news", that is all the more credible because its "what the USA themselves are openly admitting on their own official news channels", all the patriot trolls who "do their own research" seek out spread this dangerous rot of their own accord among themselves. We've never in modern times seen such powerful domestic forces spreading propaganda against their own government to the benefit of a government that would like to nuke them.
jergul large member	Thu Sep 29 06:49:36 Nimi Ukraine was highly overrepresented in the Politburo throughout the Soviet era. It is fun to blame Russia, but the USSR actually consisted of quite a number of republics and some of them (Georgia, Ukraine, Russia, and to some extent Belorus) were irredemably tied into the Soviet decision-making throughout the period.
jergul large member	Thu Sep 29 06:50:25 I manually checked the politburo stuff years ago and posted here. I am not doing that again :).
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Thu Sep 29 08:25:35 "It is fun to blame Russia" Or the USA or the British or the Islamic caliphate. The way you feel about this with your well researched and nuanced view about the Soviets and Russians, that's how a lot of people feel about other imperialism. Personally I will just leave it at, Imperialism and chauvinism is bad, mkay? I just miss consistency in how you approach these topics. It seems to be, I have read a lot about this, so reality is very complex and nuanced. This other stuff that I don't that much about, is very black and white. Something to think about :P Anyway regarding Imperialism, I will go with my gut, being Iranian, e.g the OG's of how to dominate a multi ethnic/cultural empire.
Seb Member	Thu Sep 29 09:02:04 Nim: I don't think I said *that*. I hadn't considered that Tucker Carlson and some of the "alt" media in the West wasn't just being supported by Russia financially (through oligarchs, lot of them into media) just as a means to influence the West, but because it was seen as an independent confirmation of Russian govt domestic propiganda.
Sam Adams Member	Thu Sep 29 09:22:23 Video going around of a dead russian officer being eaten by pigs. Sic semper tyranis.
jergul large member	Thu Sep 29 09:42:57 Nimi I think I have already said what I need to say and have no need to virtue signal. With that said, sure, I can virtue signal and kick in open doors: The Ukrainian war is most def an expression of Russian exceptionalism, imperialism and chauvanism. Russia's war of aggression contains within it the sum total of all crimes attributable to the war. People were hung at Nurenburg for far less. The USSR is more complex. I tend to frame it as a center versus periphery struggle where the centre lost out for 80 years. The common denominator for Soviet leaders is that they hailed from fuck knows where Russian Empire/USSR.
jergul large member	Thu Sep 29 09:46:24 The roman empire equivalent to Russian Empire -> USSR would be when Romanized barbarians became Ceasars.
jergul large member	Thu Sep 29 09:50:23 Sammy There are also videos of an Ukrainian tank losing a duel to a Russian tank at about 100 m range. Or a single Russian dude clearing an position held by a 4 man Ukrainian anti tank team...and the Ukrainians were lucky to get out wounded, but alive. Anectdotal evidence always weighs heavily on the confirmation bias scale. Though I was wondering if the cool factor in the tank duel would outweigh you natural bias. I guess not :D.
Paramount Member	Thu Sep 29 10:22:58 Show me the tank duel, please.
jergul large member	Thu Sep 29 10:24:34 http://www...sian_tank_hits_ukrainian_tank/
LazyCommunist Member	Thu Sep 29 10:33:51 The harder the life of a soldier, the sweeter the victory will be! http://twitter.com/wartranslated/status/1575466184845234176
Paramount Member	Thu Sep 29 10:49:54 Thanks. This video was also interesting to watch. http://www...are&utm_medium=web2x&context=3
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Thu Sep 29 11:31:19 Jergul I am not trying corner you into virtuesignaling about current affairs, I was qualifying the desire for former Soviet republics to leave Russian sphere of influence and have security gurantees. What I am not saying is that the Soviets didn’t try in various ways to subdue Russian nationalism, I’m saying it didn’t work thst well, that without the Tarist Russian empire there would be no Soviet union. Such legacy is not easily erased, it is engrained in the soil, the history books, cultural and institutional memory. Complex sure, but not the same thing as what I am saying isn’t true enough. I am also doing something I rarely do and whatabouting. There is someone with the confederate flag on his wall or protesting the destruction of a statue that would say it was a complex issue. He may be correct, just not correct enough.
jergul large member	Thu Sep 29 13:47:03 Nimi The countries do inherit some problems. Post Maidan Ukraine treated the revolution as a mandate to culturally and linguistically derussify. Which 75-80% of the population thought was ok. The rest absolutely did not. Comparable perhaps to anglifying Canada. Minsk-2 was mostly about creating a pseudo-federal model so that regional interests would be protected. Something like that was probably the roadmap to peaceful reintegration, but fell through for a myriad of reasons (one of the triggers for the invasion was an outright ban on Russian in schools). I have no idea on how it could have been resolved, but like they say. Its complicated.
jergul large member	Thu Sep 29 13:48:25 Nimi Well, then lets blame the Moskovy State :D.
swordtail Anarchist Prime	Thu Sep 29 13:52:01 "Which 75-80% of the population thought was ok." lol maybe half that,but of course with liberal democracy coverage of events in ukraine,one could be forgiven for thinking that 75-80% of the population were nazis.
Sam Adams Member	Thu Sep 29 13:53:43 http://twi...?s=20&t=cvnlYeMBVYqx1xxQax69_g Russian propaganda are all butthurt. Pillz and swordfail have some work to do. Gotta cheer up your butt buddies!
swordtail Anarchist Prime	Thu Sep 29 14:42:04 http://pbs...XoAA6-IL?format=jpg&name=large
Pillz Member	Thu Sep 29 17:41:45 Lol
Forwyn Member	Thu Sep 29 17:50:41 Are we hosting any more Nazis in Congress? I thought we just had a colossal multi-agency dragnet law enforcement operation to catch all the nasty Nazis that marched on Washington
Seb Member	Thu Sep 29 18:31:27 Lyman fully encircled now apparently. Oops.
swordtail Anarchist Prime	Thu Sep 29 18:42:33 ukrainian airborne troops http://twi...78465?cxt=HHwWgsDThfLqpd0rAAAA
jergul large member	Thu Sep 29 19:02:50 Seb Nice! Maybe that will put some new life into the Turkish brokered catch and release programme. The inferred ratio of POWs is 5 Ukrainians to every Russian.
Seb Member	Thu Sep 29 19:09:50 You say that like it's a bad thing for Ukraine and a good thing for Russia.
Pillz Member	Thu Sep 29 19:46:31 @ seb According to Rybar (translation by Defense Politics Asia & paraphrased by me) Ukrainian forces advanced in the direction of zarechny and we're repelled by artillery. Which means they got blown to pieces. Link to Rybar update http://t.me/rybar/39542
jergul large member	Thu Sep 29 20:07:20 Seb I am saying that it does not matter. Even if it materializes, it is not an important encirclement like the Mariupol pocket. Lyman is 5% the size of Mariupol. There may be 1200 troops in the enclave, but prolly closer to half that. Say it gets cut off. Some of the troops surrender. Exchanged for Ukrainian POWs in a few months. Rejoin service.
murder Member	Thu Sep 29 22:37:34 jergul is correct. This is no big deal. Russia loses every day. This is just more of the same.
murder Member	Fri Sep 30 00:16:46 Dmitri @wartranslated Rybar reports Lyman is practically in a cauldron now: https://t.me/rybar/39555 Putin should urgently declare Lyman an independent state, maybe it will help!! http://twitter.com/wartranslated/status/1575608730699243521 lol :o)
Pillz Member	Fri Sep 30 01:19:24 Yet Ukraine is still losing Amazing :o)
jergul large member	Fri Sep 30 02:54:15 30 Sep, 04:06 Putin to sign accession treaties with four territories The ceremony will be held in The Hall of the Order of St. George of the Grand Kremlin Palace, beginning at 15:00 Moscow time MOSCOW, September 30. /TASS/. Russian President Vladimir Putin will on Friday, September 30, sign accession treaties with four territories: the people’s republics of Donetsk and Lugansk and the regions of Zaporozhye and Kherson. The ceremony will be held in The Hall of the Order of St. George of the Grand Kremlin Palace, beginning at 15:00 Moscow time. Therefore, the number of Russian administrative regions will grow to 89, while the four territories that had seceded from Ukraine will enter a new historical period as a part of Russia.
murder Member	Fri Sep 30 04:34:43 Zelenskyy should have a ceremony to formally annex Mars.
jergul large member	Fri Sep 30 04:57:15 Murder Annexation matters for Russia etc for legal reasons. It can bring way more manpower to bear in units the manpower has belonged to for a while.
jergul large member	Fri Sep 30 05:02:12 On the civilians lining up for transportation to the Russian zone today. The Ukrainian narrative that they were lining up with stuff to get on transports to go rescue their relatives makes no sense. Why would a horde of people without their own transportation be taking stuff to collect relatives? The Russian narrative that these people were leaving for the Russian zone makes more sense. Some people do prefer Russian rule. Ukraine has been under marshal law for 8 months now and most of the population is living way below poverty levels (a 40% hit to Gdp tends to do that). I do not think the attack was sanctioned at higher levels in any event.
jergul large member	Fri Sep 30 05:05:30 http://gyazo.com/10585b72b88ee793f913ba51a01e0476 That is not humanitarian aid. That is refugee baggage.
Habebe Member	Fri Sep 30 06:32:39 "And more importantly I hate that Israel has enough control over our elected officials and media to secure several billion dollars a year in tribute." See, this is why it leads me to believe this is more generalized How the left just hates Jews. They always try to "No it's Israel not Jews" The Ukraine literally gets so much money from us they spend our money lobbying our Congress for more money. This is really just an extension of Russia-gate. The left has had a Russia fetish since 2016.The vast majority of stories turned out to be completely fabricated, the others unproven/exaggerated. So they were left frustrated, seen an opportunity where Russia is actually acting dickish and they can't help themselves. Obama himself pointed out correctly, the Ukraine is a Russian concern, not an American one. We hadn't even been pit of Afghanistan a year and we couldn't help but jump into another 20 year money pit because of a false belief that it's pwning Trump. We are already spending annualized close to 100 billion. Depleting our own military, with little tangible gain. Yeah its great Europe is dependant on US energy, but we don't need to spend 100 billion a year for that.
murder Member	Fri Sep 30 07:08:04 "They always try to "No it's Israel not Jews"" Maybe what they mean is that it's The Israel and not the jews. As for me, I don't say that it's not the jews. I say it's not the jews per se. If they are working to make the The US a vassal of The Israel, then it's certainly those jews. Unless they are Christians, in which case it's is those Christians. "The Ukraine literally gets so much money from us they spend our money lobbying our Congress for more money." Yes but it's to stop The Russia from conquering its The neighbors, so I'm fine with it. "The left has had a Russia fetish since 2016.The vast majority of stories turned out to be completely fabricated, the others unproven/exaggerated." None of the stories were fabricated. "Obama himself pointed out correctly, the Ukraine is a Russian concern, not an American one." But The Russia is a The US concern. "Depleting our own military, with little tangible gain." Our own military is not depleted even a little. Also, I'm not worried about The Mexico invading the The US so ...
Habebe Member	Fri Sep 30 07:36:22 "None of the stories were fabricated." Off the top of my head 1. Russian bounties on US soldiers. 2. Russia planted Hunters laptop. "Our own military is not depleted even a little." Again, just off my head Javelins & 155mm ammunition are very much so short. Probably a bunch of other shit as well.
murder Member	Fri Sep 30 08:27:51 "Again, just off my head Javelins & 155mm ammunition are very much so short." We're not short on anything. We have far more of everything than we could possibly need.
swordtail Anarchist Prime	Fri Sep 30 08:34:48 http://pbs...X0AADKqn?format=png&name=small
swordtail Anarchist Prime	Fri Sep 30 08:45:42 lyman is still a nazi free zone.
Paramount Member	Fri Sep 30 08:47:37 If Israel, who is a democracy, is allowed to annex parts of Syria and Palestine, I don’t see why Russia can’t follow Israel’s example and annex parts of Ukraine. The population in these areas are mainly Russians, so if they want to belong to Russia, why not? Ukraine was after all, for 8 long years, attacking and killing the people in these areas. What did they expect would happen? Ukraine wanted to get rid of the people, and now they have. These areas are not Ukrainan anymore.
murder Member	Fri Sep 30 09:59:57 "It can bring way more manpower to bear in units the manpower has belonged to for a while." They can try.
murder Member	Fri Sep 30 10:03:19 "The population in these areas are mainly Russians, so if they want to belong to Russia, why not?" They can and they should. They just need to pack up and move across the border into Russia because the land voted 100% to 0% to remain part of Ukraine.
murder Member	Fri Sep 30 10:11:24 Oliver Alexander @OAlexanderDK "Strikes on new territories will be regarded as an act of aggression against Russia" Russian Press Secretary Dmitry Peskov told the media today. This statement will be put to the test immediately as Russia is within hours/days of losing control of Lyman. http://twi...65600?cxt=HHwWgICp6Yvart4rAAAA He says that as if Ukraine hadn't blown up shit inside Russia before.
Seb Member	Fri Sep 30 10:12:32 Paramount: Israel isn't allowed though. And indeed, you personally oppose it.
Seb Member	Fri Sep 30 10:13:18 "lyman is still a nazi free zone." No, it's full of Russian and DNR forces.
murder Member	Fri Sep 30 10:14:23 Not for long. :o)
swordtail Anarchist Prime	Fri Sep 30 10:21:01 "No, it's full of Russian and DNR forces." that's right. it's a nazi free zone. nato's nazis are not gonna get it.
Seb Member	Fri Sep 30 10:24:26 Swordtail: http://twi...?t=IgiicA1JuxmbVwg0IbYuFg&s=19
swordtail Anarchist Prime	Fri Sep 30 10:29:31 ha
swordtail Anarchist Prime	Fri Sep 30 10:29:39 ha
Seb Member	Fri Sep 30 10:33:08 Looks like we broke swordtail by showing video of his Russian friends loudly declaring themselves to be Nazis.
swordtail Anarchist Prime	Fri Sep 30 10:35:27 lol yeah,that's the ticket.
swordtail Anarchist Prime	Fri Sep 30 10:58:25 We, the G7 Foreign Ministers of Canada, France, Germany, Italy, Japan, the United Kingdom, the United States of America, and the High Representative of the European Union, are united in our condemnation in the strongest possible terms of Russia’s war of aggression against Ukraine and its continued violations of Ukraine’s sovereignty, territorial integrity and Independence. http://www.auswaertiges-amt.de/en/newsroom/news/-/2555464 lol
murder Member	Fri Sep 30 11:17:41 Give Ukraine some nukes and let nature run its course.
Paramount Member	Fri Sep 30 12:14:18 Seb, So where are the sanctions on Israel? Where are the divestments? Why isn’t Nato arming the Palestinians and the Syrians so that they can take back their lands that Israel has stolen? There are none of that. The conclusion can only be that Nato and the West allows Israel to annex someone elses land. Israel is even being rewarded with favorable trade deals with the EU and money and weapons and more from the US. Annexations of land is okay. Might makes right.
Habebe Member	Fri Sep 30 14:19:35 Paramount, White guilt.
jergul large member	Fri Sep 30 14:47:26 Para That is probably the main reason for why the global outrage is limited to "the golden billion". A stunning lack of consistency bordering on hypocracy. Where were the sanctions on the US when it invaded Iraq or even Afghanistan? I actually think an Isaeli analogy works with Ukraine. Arabs = The West Palestine = Ukraine Israel = Russia
Pillz Member	Fri Sep 30 14:59:14 Jergul drops an analogy that absolutely everyone is going to hate Step up your game seb Oh, and Lyman is still Russian.
Pillz Member	Fri Sep 30 15:13:10 I wonder if Ukrainian armour runs out before Russia makes its offensive. This whole Lyman thing has been costly. Losses are trending down this week, so far, presumably because Kherson has been quiet. Minor Ukrainian gains in the death trap at the center of the front line. The situation north of Kherson has not changed despite Ukrainian claims they'd be at the city God knows how many times by now Kupyansk saw a AFU expansion, but Russian lines from the north, south, and east to the surrounding area are intact and its also a death trap. So we really just have Wagner and Russian artillery flattening the entire Bakhmut area, Ukrainians walking into death traps, and Ukrainians hurling themselves at Lyman in human waves... +0 helicopters +42 tanks/ifvs +8 aircraft +10 MLRS +27 artillery +108 special equipment +38 UAVs For the period of Sept 26th to 30th
Pillz Member	Fri Sep 30 16:03:41 Between losses & attrition to repair/maintenance, parts shortages, necessary deployment of at least minimal forces near Kharkov, Sumy, Kiev, etc, it is doubtful Ukraine has armour to last until December. I expect announcements from Poland to send the rest of its soviet tanks soon, followed by announcements of Leopard 2 purchases. If by late October there's no significant news regarding active deployment Leopard 2 or M1 fleets w/ associated logistics, the war is over.
Pillz Member	Fri Sep 30 16:10:08 Also, all this Nordstream attack did was guarantee Russia pushes their border to the Dnieper, land locks a broken Ukrainian state, and force Europe to agree to the proposed black sea/balkans pipe line in exchange for a sustainable, sufficient supply for gas. Ukrainian cooperation can be the responsibility of Poland or Hungary, who are keen on not freezing to death next winter. I suspect the Balkans are less excited about this shift to sustainable energy than the cucks in western Europe and would be open to a new pipeline.
murder Member	Fri Sep 30 17:26:00 "it is doubtful Ukraine has armour to last until December." This isn't lasting until December. Russia is folding like a cheap suit.
Pillz Member	Fri Sep 30 18:03:56 Russia is beating Ukraine around like your 'uncles' used to smack around your crack addled mom.
earthpig GTFO HOer	Fri Sep 30 20:56:31 Can't lose with young bucks like this at the front http://www...6973120774?_t=8W87ynUddV8&_r=1
murder Member	Fri Sep 30 22:10:06 "Russia is beating Ukraine around" Great news! Russia is ordering more organized retreats. The ultimate goal is to trick Ukraine into crossing the border so Russian forces can have home field advantage.
Sam Adams Member	Sat Oct 01 00:33:35 Pillz Member Fri Sep 30 18:03:56 Russia is beating Ukraine around Yet at the same time russia is declaribg mobilization and crying about nuclear weapons. Totally winning im sure acording to pillz. Lol pillz=buttsex
jergul large member	Sat Oct 01 01:49:31 EP It is an old man's war. An interesting aspect of conscription and mobilization in older societies. Check out the median age for men in Russia and Ukraine if interested.
swordtail Anarchist Prime	Sat Oct 01 07:19:35 seems nato's nazis are about to to take lyman/liman the ruskies have withdrawn from the city.
Habebe Member	Sat Oct 01 07:36:08 Russia has said they are open to sign for peace. Ukraine says no dice, on the US's dime. How is this not warmongering & theft?
murder Member	Sat Oct 01 07:42:55 "Why won't Ukraine surrender already?!?!?!" -- Putinbots in ever more desperate tones
murder Member	Sat Oct 01 07:43:47 "seems nato's nazis are about to to take lyman/liman the ruskies have withdrawn from the city." That's yesterdays news. Ukrainian forces are still advancing and the Russians are still retreating.
murder Member	Sat Oct 01 08:00:08 Broderick McDonald @brodymcdonald_ Ukraine has captured #Lyman 1200-2000 Russians fleeing on foot & in vehicles but #Ukraine has fire control over main road to #Kreminna Looks like a rout with lots of #Russian equipment abandoned http://twitter.com/brodymcdonald_/status/1576160212305981442
murder Member	Sat Oct 01 08:01:29 Michael MacKay @mhmck It's 1 a.m. in Ukraine and there's a battle underway on the outskirts of Kreminna, Luhansk region. Advancing Ukrainian troops are turning the Russian retreat from Lyman, Donetsk region, into a rout. http://twitter.com/mhmck/status/1575971495435636737
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