Utopia Talk / Politics / Elon Truss

Seb Member	Fri Nov 11 07:13:44 So they bought back the grey official check mark which they launched earlier this week, then canned. They've suspended Twitter blue and paid verifications. Truly this is what a well organised acquisition looks like. Clearly I must take back my suggestion Elon has "done a truss".
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Fri Nov 11 08:12:53 Still too vague, we want an unambiguous commitment to some form of prediction in time and space.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Fri Nov 11 08:21:28 Habebe "But Seb was claiming he had destroyed Twitter and called It a " Liz Truss moment" on day 5." It is a difference in character for sure. For instance I did not like Trump, nor did I agree with GWB invasion of Iraq, but once the die was cast I wished them the best of luck and hoped good would come from it. Once I felt I had seen enough, I said as much.
williamthebastard Member	Fri Nov 11 08:31:13 In fact, a classic conservative view to defend their elite positions was that many people aren't capable of handling wealth, power etc and that you need to be bred into being able to handle that "responsibility". While this is self-serving BS on the one hand, there is a kernel of truth to it and Musk seems to embody the kind of person who didnt learn the value of money from his enormous wealth, but rather has learned from his near-eternal wealth to not understand the value of money at all. Nor how power works: all the sycophantic sucking up that comes with that wealth makes weaker people like him begin to think, "My money has nothing to do with everyone around me worshipping me, its all because of ME."
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Fri Nov 11 08:38:22 ...Anyway in my experience the fanboys are often rivaled in the cringe they produce by the haters. Stay balanced!
Seb Member	Fri Nov 11 09:01:45 Nim: I never proposed making a prediction - so why do you want one? "For instance I did not like Trump, nor did I agree with GWB invasion of Iraq," I see, so, did you for example - while wishing them the best for the invasion of Iraq - revise your opinion that the decision was a bad one? Because as I said, the parallel to Liz Truss is that he came in, made some rushed decisions based - it appears - more on convictions than context - and spooked the money thereby precipitating something of a crisis. Both managed to do that in c. 5 days (if you discount the period of national mourning). I'm not sure why you think *observing* this fact is equivalent to *wishing him to fail*; anymore than believing the decision to invade Iraq was a bad one - made on faulty logic and dubious interpretation of evidence - is wishing for GWB to fail.
Seb Member	Fri Nov 11 09:03:39 I suppose you do have something in common with Musk though, Nim, a history of smearing those you disagree with as paedophiles. Birds of a feather, as they say.
murder Member	Fri Nov 11 09:17:06 ================================== Musk, who often bristles at critical news coverage, pushed back against that use of the tool Wednesday, saying he wanted to elevate “citizen journalism” and the “voice of the people” over publications he suggested had too much influence in defining the “Western narrative.” Journalism professionals generally consider Musk’s concept of elevating “citizen journalists” dangerous because it ignores the need for standards, including fact-checking, that responsible news organizations enforce. ================================== Elon is just a half step from going full Qanon. Any day now he's going to tweet "Where we go one, we go all"
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Fri Nov 11 09:34:16 "I never proposed making a prediction - so why do you want one?" Well, then we can confirm that your circling around this issue is like that of a vulture. "revise your opinion that the decision was a bad one?" That's what I literally, but it took more than 5 days. "Nim, a history of smearing those you disagree with as paedophiles" That would be illegal, I have never said such a thing about you, in this sense I am much more intelligent than Musk :)
williamthebastard Member	Fri Nov 11 10:24:56 "Options for Twitter users to sign up for a subscription that allowed them to pay for a verified blue check mark next to their account disappeared from the app by Friday morning, following a day of chaos on Twitter with user’s posing as brands and public figures. " Lol, I mean, it sounds like the worst idea ever. So does he have to pay everyone back now?
williamthebastard Member	Fri Nov 11 10:25:42 I wish Mush would buy UP and allow everyone to log on under each others names
murder Member	Fri Nov 11 10:57:16 "So does he have to pay everyone back now?" I think all the new blue checks got to keep them except the ones violating Twitter's rules.
Seb Member	Fri Nov 11 11:28:30 Nim: "Well, then we can confirm that your circling around this issue is like that of a vulture." You realise how unhinged that sounds? Why would a prediction show that? And is the fact I'm not making a prediction then evidence that I'm not "circling around it would a vulture?" "That's what I literally, but it took more than 5 days." Wait, so you think it was a good idea to invade Iraq? Smearing rarely involves actionable defamation, but we can all spot the lowlives that do it.
williamthebastard Member	Fri Nov 11 11:30:15 Apparently, among the many wars between verified celebrities and historical figures, there was an epic battle between verified Jesus Christ and God.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Fri Nov 11 11:59:44 "Why would a prediction show that?" You have this completely backwards. You are not making a prediction, only slowly circling around like a vulture. "Wait, so you think it was a good idea to invade Iraq?" I forgive your confusion, maybe it was not clear, despite the context. While I disagreed with the invasion, I did not circle around the issue, like a vulture. I genuinely hoped it would work out. When it didn't, I said as much. You on the other hand, have been priming this day, since back when Musk announced he was thinking about buying twitter. You have not really been subtle about it. I have seen this happen, youtube channels that used to do science education and debunking videos, slowly morphed into debunking and dunking on Musk. Unsub!
habebe Member	Fri Nov 11 13:00:40 $44 billion says Musk outlasts Truss. Any takers? Murder, ""Where we go one, we go all" Is that qanon motto? Sounds more star trecky.
habebe Member	Fri Nov 11 13:19:55 Again, Seb claiming no horse in the race a with Elon but doubles down on linking him to a case where he strongly did. Seb, You play poker?
Seb Member	Fri Nov 11 17:43:55 Nim: Yeah, I'm observing events and saying how I think things are going and likely outcomes. Why would I need or want (or would anyone else want) weirdly specific forecast "in time and space". "I did not circle around the issue, like a vulture." Are you seriously saying commenting on events is bad unless you "wishing the best"? I would like Twitter not to vanish I find it useful on a number of levels. But I don't particularly care either way if musk is successful or not. But that doesn't stop me having opinions on whether it will succeed or not - in the same way you hoping the Invasion of Iraq worked out doesn't invalidate or change your initial thoughts and subsequent reiterations that the idea to do it in the first place was terribly misconceived. I think musk's purchase was misconceived and his approach over the last few days a bad idea. For the reasons I've said. As in "unlikely to be successful". That's all. What does "priming" mean in this context? I mean what your post appears to be saying is "your views on the likelihood of musk's success are suspect because I think you are anti-musk because you've said you think buying Twitter was a bad idea". Firstly, that's circular logic. Secondly, I really don't have this kind of Manichean view on Musk as a person you and habebe seem to have. As I said, I think your are way too emotionally invested in this guy if you can't conceive of commentary on his erratic business decisions as being anything other than a personal attack on him or the value system you've protected onto him. It really does come across as utterly unhinged.
Seb Member	Fri Nov 11 17:48:57 Habebe: It's that supposed to make any kind of sense? I disliked truss because of her policies and the very real damage that would do to the country. I mocked her because of her absolutely stupid implementation. I liken what Elon is doing with Twitter to the approach she took to implementing them. It does not follow that I dislike Musk. For a start, he's not fucking up my country in quite the way Truss was. *What* truss and musk are doing are officially very different. *How* they both went admit doing it is the point of comparison. Do you honestly not see the distinction?
Seb Member	Fri Nov 11 17:50:06 *Obviously very different. *How*they both went about doing it...
habebe Member	Fri Nov 11 17:53:11 Back pedal all you want, meh Ice lost interest. Paid for verification is gone, which just.like I said he is throwing everything on the wall and sees what sticks and what doesn't.
Seb Member	Sat Nov 12 04:25:32 Habebe: I'm not backpedaling. Like I said, you are taking all this incredibly personally.
habebe Member	Sat Nov 12 04:35:30 How is this personal?
habebe Member	Sat Nov 12 04:39:33 Because from where I sit it just comes off as deflection from you personalizing this, as Ive explained and youneven half admitted in than previous thread that you did have a personal stake in Truss. My point is for someone you had such an attachment to (or against) for you to try to push so hard to label Elon after her on the 5th day shows you have some sort of attatchment here. I don't.
Seb Member	Sat Nov 12 08:25:07 Habebe: It's obvious that its personal for you, in file way, like musk is a sports team you support or something. The fact that you can't conceive that people can think he's making mistakes without being "against him" is a big giveaway.
habebe Member	Sat Nov 12 09:12:38 Seb, Blah blah, deflect and backpedal. You can think its a mistake (it was btw, its been cancelled) but I never defended it. What you did was equivalent than people who said how terrible the nre Lord of the rings was online before one episode aired, because they took it as a personal offense. But sure the earth is square, water is dry. You will never admit your wrong on absolutely anything, very Seb of you. Ive spoke my piece, no need to reorat it adnauseum, deep down you know its personal for you.
Seb Member	Sat Nov 12 13:29:35 Habebe: So, it's a mistake, made in a rush, in the first five days of taking over. Very much like trusses budget. So why do you say I'm backpedaling when it sounds like you are the one backpedaling.
Seb Member	Sat Nov 12 13:33:24 I mean you've literally had to make up this situation where we both agree I am actually right (he made a series of rushed mistakes) but you've decided to claim by likening his approach to Truss's was equivalent to saying he destroyed Twitter (even though truss did not destroy the UK), something I never said and clarified immediately. Which of us is claiming the earth is square, water dry etc? It is you Habebe.
williamthebastard Member	Sat Nov 12 14:50:52 Its almost like Habebe is a fanboy. There, I said it.
habebe Member	Sat Nov 12 16:55:13 Seb, Your delusional. Haha, and the most stubborn guy on the board. Where is Truss? Has Elon resigned because of the mistake?, OR just like I said a million times now did he change policy? It almost gets annoying being right so often. And your ignoring your emotional attatchment. Why use "Truss" so much when you admit that had an emotional attatchment but here you claim It to?
habebe Member	Sat Nov 12 17:03:52 Also, right on schedule TikTok now has a bipartisan bill floating around to outright ban the app. It's too hairy to force a sale as Trump wanted.Basically it leads to tedious lawsuits.
Seb Member	Sat Nov 12 17:50:36 Owners don't resign habebe. I've spelled out the similarities. Other points of difference are irrelevant. He doesn't have tits or a vagina either. Truss did a u turn too btw. Because she rushed in, made bad decisions off the cuff in a chaotic way. You are just demonstrating the point I was originally making. But you are trying to extend it to saying it was a prediction he would resign. Even though I've said that's not what the analogy is about. "Why use "Truss" so much" Because it's a really good comparison and some of us can compartmentalise.
murder Member	Sat Nov 12 18:26:46 "He doesn't have tits ..." He's got moobs.
habebe Member	Sat Nov 12 20:36:10 Deb would rather slice off his thumb before admitting he was wrong.
Seb Member	Sun Nov 13 01:36:12 Habebe: What do you think I'm wrong about? You admit he botched implementation in a rushed takeover and was forced into an embarrassing U-turn. The analogy is apt.
nhill Member	Mon Nov 14 20:59:45 Looks like Twitter is posting record numbers in daily active users, and Twitter Blue is a smashing success. Just look at all those blue checkmarks on your feed now. All paying customers. Despite Seb's predictable 200 posts of windbagging it looks like my 1 post breaking down why it was a good move ended up being right in practice. I know reality is inconvenient like that, a shame Seb can't just pontificate into being right. :(
nhill Member	Mon Nov 14 21:01:50 Seb also shows that he doesn't actually have any experience in the software industry. Pausing feature rollouts is a very normal, almost boring occurrence. Starting to doubt a few things about his claims, but for now I'll chalk it up to incompetence to be generous.
murder Member	Tue Nov 15 01:38:10 "Looks like Twitter is posting record numbers in daily active users, and Twitter Blue is a smashing success." Cool. I guess they aren't going bankrupt after all. Elon turned the company around in < 3 weeks. Last I heard paid "verification" was paused due to fake accounts posting horribly damaging shit for brands.
murder Member	Tue Nov 15 01:43:20 He could fix that problem by increasing the monthly cost, or making people pay for the full year, or having a larger one time fee.
Habebe Member	Tue Nov 15 02:37:18 I think, like Ive said before he will throw a million things at the wall and see what sticks get rid of what fails.
Seb Member	Tue Nov 15 04:51:27 Nhill: I'm affraid I have to disagree. What I said would happen happened (spammers love the ease of buying blue ticks, and in turn they freaked out the brands). The stated point of paid accounts was to clamp down on spam. He said that to the big advertising accounts. So either be lied, or he got it wrong. Neither is going to help win back ad revenue. "No no, this is all proof the plan is working" doesn't really seem tenable.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Tue Nov 15 06:20:30 Seb "Yeah, I'm observing events and saying how I think things are going and likely outcomes." "But that doesn't stop me having opinions on whether it will succeed or not" prediction a statement about what you think will happen in the future: source: Oxford dictionary So many words to explain you are making predictions without using the word prediction and vehemently deny making any. I am genuinely interested in the pathology behind this behavior. Are you always this afraid of being wrong or is it the heavy investments you have made into this specific topic? I know I have in the past told you to not have values that are contingent on empirical answers. Have you, somehow, managed to invest values in Musk twitter project failing?
Seb Member	Tue Nov 15 06:58:10 Nim: Yes but you are asking for "unambiguous commitment to some form of prediction in time and space." The way *you* have defined prediction, that's not what I'm doing or purporting to. I'm doing something else, and the fact you can describe both as prediction does not mean I need to jump through arbitrary hoops you've set by trying to nail down the exact time, space or granular details of exactly how things will play out. Analogy: We can forecast the climate with a degree of accuracy over the next decade. We can't forecast the weather accurately over the next decade. You are doing the whole fox news thing: "if you can't predict the weather in 10 years, your climate model is nonsense" You can be upset about this if you like. I'll forgive you.
Seb Member	Tue Nov 15 07:00:53 "Have you, somehow, managed to invest values in Musk twitter project failing?" I don't see how that follows. But I can say as a scientist I attach a strong value to understanding appropriate precision and accuracy and propogation of uncertainty when making predictions.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Tue Nov 15 07:33:49 Yes but you are asking for "unambiguous commitment to some form of prediction in time and space." No no no, if that was the case you could have informed me, you prediction was not very serious, like predicting the weather in 10 years. But you explicitly said you are not making any predictions, which we have established is false. I wanted more than this engadgetesque social commentary/Polemic. I mean you are not even predicting the climate, you're just saying it will be bad. Is that the level of precisions then, Musk+twitter=bad? "You are doing the whole fox news thing" Seb swings from the toes and critically hits the air for 0 damage. Anyway, in the real world I pointed to a past prediction you made that failed to materialize. Listen man, if you can't take your failures in stride, you are confirming the brittle ego/emotional mess narrative. "You can be upset about this if you like." I think you are better served by putting more effort into your predictions instead of these projections.
Seb Member	Tue Nov 15 07:46:09 Nim: "prediction was not very serious, like predicting the weather in 10 years." Are you saying predicting the climate in 10 years time is not serious? The issue is you are confusing the two. "But you explicitly said you are not making any predictions" Not as you defined them, no. "you're just saying it will be bad." I think I'm saying more than that, but its simple enough: what I have said, I have said, and it speaks for itself. You are trying to find some arbitrary metric or criteria by which to define it as failure. That looks really like - what was it you described similar by Sam as? "Sebcession - the scent of desperation "
Seb Member	Tue Nov 15 07:51:02 A prediction you are looking for is clearly something like "Twitter advertising revenue will be down 85% by end of Q4 of 2023" or something like that. You are entirely correct, this would be as lacking in value as any claim to predict the weather in Londo on the 25th December 2033. It would lack basis and credibilit And now you have answered your own question as to why I'm not making such "predictions", and understand why I think you are being disingenuous in asking for them and characterising an absence of them as "failure". I did however say that blue checks would be a boon to spammers and would negatively impact brand safety. And so it has been. And that's a useful prediction though not particularly unique. It is, as they say, fucking obvious. But hey, at least we now tested it.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Tue Nov 15 08:44:33 "Are you saying predicting the climate in 10 years time is not serious?" I'm saying the ambition in precisions was not very high. Which is fine. "Not as you defined them, no." Obviously, there are grades to predictions and the precision they are made with. But you decided to interpret "prediction" as a strange binary. That is on you friend, because nowhere in the English lexicon or broader English-speaking culture, does the word prediction work in this way. I wanted a more detailed prediction. It triggered you into this, whatever this is. "You are trying to find some arbitrary metric or criteria by which to define it as failure." Like Musk will end up selling it for less money, twitter will go bankrupt, twitter will have X% less engagement x months from now. Plenty of relevant ones, but more importantly I was asking YOU to define the criteria for failure. But you took the combative-render-the-conversation-incoherent-by-not-understanding-how-words-works route. Fair enough! "That looks really like - what was it you described similar by Sam as? "Sebcession - the scent of desperation "" The air has no chance against the speed and power of your punches. I already conceded this.
Habebe Member	Tue Nov 15 08:56:33 2 threads later.....
McKobb Member	Tue Nov 15 11:21:34 I'm just goad I quit twitter months ago
Habebe Member	Tue Nov 15 11:29:22 I follow your account on Twitter Pretty sure I found Seb a long time ago.
McKobb Member	Tue Nov 15 11:39:53 thanks, but it's retired
Habebe Member	Tue Nov 15 11:44:56 Yeah, I didn't know it at the time. You were friends with CherubCow where I found a handful of UP folks.
Seb Member	Tue Nov 15 13:43:47 Nim: "I'm saying the ambition in precisions was not very high." To what precision do you think you can predict what twitter's profit margin will be in Q4 next year? Please show your working. "But you decided to interpret "prediction" as a strange binary." No. You did. You explicitly asked for "time and space" (whatever the latter means). Predicting something is likely to happen is valuable even if you can't give a precise timeline. "I wanted a more detailed prediction" Why? "Like Musk will end up selling it for less money," I have no idea what Musk will do in six months time, and neither do you. And what he's doing now, though a mistake, probably isn't something he's going to keep stubbornly doing. So how could anyone confidently make such a prediction? "twitter will go bankrupt," As above. " twitter will have X% less engagement x months from now." As above. Yes, I understand you want to try and make me commit to something stupidly precise so you can claim I have failed. This is what I was hoping you would admit. I'm perfectly happy with what I've said already: A subscription model is unlikely to generate as much revenue as advertising; The subscription model he proposed (and appears now to be reconsidering) is not favourable to brands, content creators etc.. and so is likely to damage the value of Twitter to advertisers. Twitter is unlikely to be able to find a better/more sustainable business model - it needs to focus on getting the advertising one right, or diversify into more intensive data mining/insight based models - but these all require content strategies that are similar to twitter's existing ones - which allow people to proactively and preventively screen out the kind of content and people they don't want to engage with. A function the free speech brigade interpret to be shadow bans. So far we have seen that starting to play out. Subscription model needs to be based more around allowing users to curate their timeline and threads (brand safety / content moderation), not boost their reach (free speech brigade).
Seb Member	Tue Nov 15 13:45:14 And I really don't need to give a timeline for exactly when he will come to that realisation. That's something I can't predict because it's about what's going on in Musk's head.
Seb Member	Tue Nov 15 13:48:03 And yes I know that's frustrating because you'd like something you can easily assess me to have failed against at some funded point in time. But that's because you are here to score points, while I'm here to speculate reasonably about Twitter's business model.
Seb Member	Tue Nov 15 13:48:30 *Some fixed point.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Tue Nov 15 14:20:55 "To what precision do you think you can predict what twitter's profit margin will be in Q4 next year?" It was really for you to decide however you fancied, but instead we are having this meta debate. "No. You did. You explicitly asked for "time and space" (whatever the latter means). Predicting something is likely to happen is valuable even if you can't give a precise timeline.No. You did. You explicitly asked for "time and space" (whatever the latter means). Predicting something is likely to happen is valuable even if you can't give a precise timeline." Oh dear, now I understand. You took my colloquial usage of "space time" to color my post with language of physics too litteral. You are still swinging between extremes, but at atleast now I understand where in space time it happened. It can be a rough estimation, I'm not expecting quantum level precision. "Why?" I want to know what you actually think will happen. Like if you were making a small bet. "Yes, I understand you want to try and make me commit to something stupidly precise so you can claim I have failed" You are wrong. My quest is not for you to fail through entrapment, but through your own inherent incompetence. I think those are reasonable and fair terms.
tumbleweed the wanderer	Thu Nov 17 18:55:03 [Gauntlet voice] Twitter is about to die " I'm told that in Twitter's slack, scores of staffers have posted the Salute emoji, as many appear to reject Musk's "hardcore" ultimatum. (The salute emoji has been what tweeps post as they exit.) A former exec who recently left described to me what's occurring as a "mass exodus." --- Twitter has emailed staffers: "Hi, Effective immediately, we are temporarily closing our office buildings and all badge access will be suspended. Offices will reopen on Monday, November 21st. .. We look forward to working with you on Twitter’s exciting future." " ~ Oliver Darcy, CNN http://twitter.com/oliverdarcy/status/1593394621627138048
tumbleweed the wanderer	Thu Nov 17 19:01:46 a different reporter's info: " What I’m hearing from Twitter employees; It looks like roughly 75% of the remaining 3,700ish Twitter employees have not opted to stay after the “hardcore” email. Even though the deadline has passed, everyone still has access to their systems. ------- As we’re all very aware, folks on visas are stuck, so thats who makes up most of the roughly 25% (or less than 1,000….) expected to stay. The actual impact is not yet known — there have been no internal comms about what comes next. We’re nearly 2 hours post deadline. --------- Update: Employee’s badge access has been disabled until Monday. It does seem like there will be … not much left of the company by then. ------- Something I can now add: 10% of the 3,700ish remaining employees deemed critical were called to a meeting an hour before the 5PM deadline today. The invite was sent around midnight but got cancelled by noon. " ~ Kylie Robison http://twitter.com/kyliebytes/status/1593391167718113280
Habebe Member	Thu Nov 17 19:13:12 Better to gut the company. Start fresh.
Habebe Member	Thu Nov 17 19:27:32 http://youtu.be/WSatPoD2W-o A while back Elon responded to this (or a clip of it) with "Exactly" For anyone not familiar with Carl Icahn explaining how/why he fired 12 floors of people in one day. Now, it worked out well for Carl, but Twitter is an entirely different beast but we have an idea where Musk is coming from.
murder Member	Thu Nov 17 19:42:38 This should convince advertisers that Twitter is a healthy platform and that Elon isn't erratic at all.
nhill Member	Thu Nov 17 22:20:44 You guys are doing retarded. Twitter usage hit another all time high with fewer expenses and more revenue than ever before. God I hate being right before everyone, annoying AF. Wish I was a retard so I could fit in with you
nhill Member	Thu Nov 17 22:21:59 going retarded, fking retarded, becoming retarded, always been. idk whatever it is, ur dumb
nhill Member	Thu Nov 17 22:47:21 Does anyone want me to explain why you are all idiots or are you content with your room temp IQ. I don't want to put in the effort if not appreciated
murder Member	Thu Nov 17 23:09:58 Fires draw a crowd. That doesn't mean that you want your restaurant to burn.
nhill Member	Thu Nov 17 23:19:02 Murder the Retard gonna retard. I do often wish I was as dumb, sucks being right before everyone all the time :/
murder Member	Thu Nov 17 23:39:49 Yeah, you're right all the time.
nhill Member	Thu Nov 17 23:52:06 It's relative
murder Member	Thu Nov 17 23:52:18 My favorite Musk moments of this week had nothing to do with the Twitter shitfest though. They came while he was lying in court during the lawsuit over his compensation as CEO of Tesla. A few of his greatest hits ... > "At SpaceX it’s really that I’m responsible for the engineering of the rockets and Tesla for the technology in the car that makes it successful" > "It’s my experience that great engineers will only work for a great engineer. That is my first duty, not that of CEO." > Musk said he only called on Tesla employees to assist him at Twitter on a “voluntary basis” and to work “after hours” at Twitter. >> “This was an after hours — just if you’re interested in evaluating, helping me evaluate Twitter engineering ... that’d be nice. I think it lasted for a few days and it was over.” Just in case anyone was wondering if he's been inhaling his own bullshit. And straight up lying under oath like it's nothing just goes to show that the only difference between him and Trump is the BBQ sauce spray tan.
Seb Member	Fri Nov 18 00:36:44 Nim: "I want to know what you actually think will happen." I've told you what I think will happen, and why you can't reasonably put a time frame on it. You are just looking for extraneous detail to point at and say "look that was wrong". Nhill: "more revenue than ever before." Really? Musk says revenue fell off a cliff.
Seb Member	Fri Nov 18 00:38:28 I saw a figure for subs at c. 64,000 - no idea if that's accurate. That's chump change.
Seb Member	Fri Nov 18 01:12:35 For the record I don't think the staffing issues is the end of the world in itself. There's going to be law suits and further legal/regulatory costs for trying to assume a global workforce are all subject to California's employment laws. But if he retains the right people, I'm pretty sure he can keep the lights on and make new features. Whether he can build out fast enough into a "data services" model (which is what I think he's probably really doing) is another question. However I suspect he's going to find out that govt regulators have views on what Twitter should be doing around moderation, and so will brands - that's going to be the issue. The killer will be add revenue. The subscription stuff doesn't look like it will add up to anything significant and, as currently structured, doesn't seem a compelling offer for most users while also creating problems for add revenue rather than solving it.
Seb Member	Sun Nov 20 11:04:54 http://www...g-full-movies/?sh=637e8d597d3a Whoops.
murder Member	Sun Nov 20 11:30:32 Just one of the many dumb things he promised to do. ;o)
Habebe Member	Sun Nov 20 12:59:23 Only 25% (ish) of a workforce to pay for, user engagement is apparently breaking records. A bunch of popular accounts are now back on Twitter and that will likely drive more engagement. CBS has suspended their account but, they will follow and report on Twitter. Making Twitter great again.
Seb Member	Sun Nov 20 13:06:53 Habebe: Ok, but how is that engagement being monteised?
Habebe Member	Sun Nov 20 13:21:38 Seb, I don't know yet. But he sure is saving alot on expenses, two more execs who refused to fire more people were just fired. Twitter was losing money for years. It was expected early on in order to grow, but they have been stagnant in engagement and new users for a few years now while still losing money. So at the very least, he has cut expenses, and grown user engagement, likely new users are growing. Now we don't know the data so, there is that. We will see what happens in regards to monetizing that.
murder Member	Sun Nov 20 13:23:21 You're not likely to ever know the data because he can claim whatever the hell he wants. There's no one to hold him accountable.
Seb Member	Sun Nov 20 14:11:27 Habebe: Stagnant in engagement and new users, but growing revenues. We shall see if firing all the people was a good idea. I suspect that the impact of this will not become apparent for some time; but getting rid of manual operation teams on content moderation and identify verification is probably not a good move. Growing user engagement is not going to translate into growing revenue if the nature of the engagement is more discourse of a type that doesn't drive higher click-through on adds because advertisers do not want to be associated with it. So I am sceptical that user engagement here is a good leading indicator of success from a business perspective.
Habebe Member	Sun Nov 20 21:20:50 "Stagnant in engagement and new users, but growing revenues." Revenues that were pissed away by hiring clearly useless workers.Maybe it will impact things later, getting rid of lazy people who despise you probably isnt a bad thing. It reminds me of the robert Baratheon scene when he asks which is the bigger number 1 army (fist) or five (fingers). " So I am sceptical that user engagement here is a good leading indicator of success from a business perspective. show deleted" Thats fair. I guess It all depends what he does in the newr future.I still personally think that he should enable the people with larfe followers to better monetize their following and nab a cut of that. He has talked about competing with TikTok and beating YouTube's 55/45 fee split. Tiktok is almost certainly going to be banned, forcing a sale ran into legal issues and their is wide support from dems/GOP. So mabey he could tweak vine to replace that. I also see a huge space to compete with YT/Rumble. But who knows, something is changing every day there.
Habebe Member	Sun Nov 20 23:14:01 CBS came crawling back to suck on the teet of the great blue bird.
murder Member	Mon Nov 21 14:57:27 Meanwhile Tesla's value keep dropping ... hitting a 2 year low today. http://www.google.com/finance/quote/TSLA:NASDAQ?window=5Y
Habebe Member	Mon Nov 21 15:49:47 Yeah, that happens. A 2 year low and still valued at more than the next 9 car companies combined. I'm sure it will be fine.. The market is shitty and some ppl spooked that Elon isn't paying attention to Tesla and they think without him it's a nothing company.
murder Member	Mon Nov 21 16:34:12 You might want to look at that chart. Tesla's valuation really exploded ~ 2 1/2 years ago ... and it looks like it's retracing it's steps.
Habebe Member	Mon Nov 21 18:29:02 What's the top 3 market caps? Disney has plummeted, Meta, coinbase hit a 2 yr low etc. I havn't followed car makers too much, but in general the market sucks.
Habebe Member	Mon Nov 21 18:31:25 Tesla lost 167B today, still at 526 B Toyota at 230 B VW at 85 B Seems fine.
McKobb Member	Mon Nov 21 21:41:23 still sucks if you are a share holder
habebe Member	Mon Nov 21 21:46:05 depends, Investors are fine, daytraders and swing traders could be fucked or set up. its actually a good price, but probably not bottomed out yet.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Tue Nov 22 00:48:58 lol well then it sucks for most share holders of tech companies, *who bought recently* not just Tesla. These are not the straws you are looking for, Musk haters.
Seb Member	Tue Nov 22 00:53:01 Nim, Habebe: Stop turning everything into a shitty team sport. You remind me of those tiresome playground squabbling over whether Mario could beat sonic in a fight.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Tue Nov 22 01:34:24 This is the phase where seb blames everyone else for the toxic dump he drove to. We told you you were lost, but you didn’t listen. Also the post is not adressed to you or twitter, but Tesla and the deflation of markets. That is how instictively you hate Musk. You are completely incoherent.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Tue Nov 22 01:45:18 Seb Member Thu Nov 10 02:00:45 Nim: Bla bla bla Bla bla bla … .. Never really understood your need to be so fan-boyish about this guy. sToP TuRNIng thIS iNTO A ShITTY TEaM spORt YOu chILd! -The mature adult
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Tue Nov 22 01:48:45 Honestly seb, that is ”stop cursing you piece of shit” level stuff.
Seb Member	Tue Nov 22 02:18:56 Nim: Exactly my point, this is a thread about Twitter and there's all this shit about "but Tesla, musk haters". You guys don't seem to think there's any way to view this other than in terms of attitude to musk. It's insane.
Seb Member	Tue Nov 22 02:20:50 "Never really understood your need to be so fan-boyish about this guy. sToP TuRNIng thIS iNTO A ShITTY TEaM spORt YOu chILd!" Entirely consistent point: in both cases is exhausting to have the topic reduced to some absurd question as to whether one is a true believer in musk. It's like a cult.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Tue Nov 22 03:24:06 Oh I see you are gonna play dumb thread nazi and pretend like threads never branch off. Genuinely bizarre that you would be so triggered but this, when the posts in question are addressing McKobb. Again you are wrong, there are two cults, and you keep validating your membership in one of them. Take responsibility for the toxicity you create, be an adult. Don’t whinge like a girl about the mud wrestling you started.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Tue Nov 22 03:36:56 The problem is that your hatred for Musk is so extreme that anyone who, for any reason, defends anything he does or provides any semblance of nuance to your toxic take, looks like a fanboy to you. You are for Elon Musk, what TC is for “xbots”.
Seb Member	Tue Nov 22 03:51:35 Nim: No, the fact you are in a cult and need to ascribe everyone who doesn't attend the meetings as another cult doesn't make it so.
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