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Utopia Talk / Politics / Russia attacks poland
Sam Adams
Member
Tue Nov 15 12:46:36
2 dead in russian missile strike inside poland.
Habebe
Member
Tue Nov 15 12:51:53
http://www...e-war-pictures-world-war-3/amp

There is little risk of escelation they said, Habebe is being hyperbolic they said.


This fucking sucks ass. Two bickering children drag us into another* 20 yr war.

Just what we need.
McKobb
Member
Tue Nov 15 12:52:44
rip
McKobb
Member
Tue Nov 15 12:54:05
fuckin putin playing with fire
Paramount
Member
Tue Nov 15 12:55:33
It is obviously fake news. Remember that Russia has already run out of ammo and missiles.
Sam Adams
Member
Tue Nov 15 13:05:04
Might see NATO no fly enforced over western Ukraine due to this.
Dukhat
Member
Tue Nov 15 13:20:51
Too bad habebe is too old now to draft and send to his death.

Missed those days. All the colonialism and shit was a good way to send the stupid population to die off.
Seb
Member
Tue Nov 15 13:28:36
I don't think this will escalate.

It was clearly unintended, but I think we are already doing the maximum in terms of non military action, and while it would be a good pretext for a no fly zone I think in practice that's not something NATO wants to actually do.

However, it might result in a pretext for NATO to start shooting down Russian missiles in the parts of Western Ukraine it can reach on the grounds they pose a risk to NATO countries. This could give a bit of help to Ukraine, but not much.

Sam Adams
Member
Tue Nov 15 13:31:14
Russia will not be punished as hard if it was remnants of a missile that was previously intercepted. Will still need to be punished somewhat since its all their overall fault.
murder
Member
Tue Nov 15 13:36:46

Perfect excuse to move air defenses deep into Ukraine.

TheChildren
Member
Tue Nov 15 14:11:05
where them socalled "advanced" air defenses of them natoes...

we aint seein them in ukraines, not in poland either.

LazyCommunist
Member
Tue Nov 15 14:38:55
Possibly impacts of Ukrainian S-300 air defense, Poland should stop all aid for Ukraine.
Paramount
Member
Tue Nov 15 14:39:38
Russia denies the accusation. Could be that they deny it until they have investigated it closer. It could also be that it was Ukrainians who shot the rockets because they are unhappy that they have been pounded heavily with many missiles today, so they are trying to drag Poland or Nato in the war to help them fight.
Seb
Member
Tue Nov 15 14:41:29
Murder:

It would be - but I don't think it will happen.
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Tue Nov 15 14:53:28
Habebe
Admit it, you secretly want this to turn into ww3, so You can come here and tell me you told me so?
murder
Member
Tue Nov 15 15:02:14

WWIII would be the biggest dud in human history. Hyped up for decades with all the talk of nuclear holocaust only to end up being a short skirmish with tiny conventional warheads over a few occupied oblasts in eastern Ukraine.

Total letdown.

nhill
Member
Tue Nov 15 15:38:37
I remember when people here mocked me for saying calling it WW3 is hyperbolic (murder was one of them, seb the other). My how times have changed.
murder
Member
Tue Nov 15 16:53:47

Hyperbolic? I meant parabolic. :o)

jergul
large member
Tue Nov 15 17:13:42
"NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg will chair an emergency meeting of alliance ambassadors Wednesday morning in Brussels to discuss “this tragic incident,” NATO spokesperson Oana Lungescu told CNN Tuesday."

Degraded to a "tragic incident" a meeting of ambassadors summoned by Stoltenberg, and not article 4 consultations triggered by Poland.

I guess it is confirmed it was an Ukrainian s-300.
jergul
large member
Tue Nov 15 17:19:03
Poland is also saying "a Russian produced rocket" landed in Poland. Very true in the case of Ukr. S-300ds :).
Sam Adams
Member
Tue Nov 15 17:56:32
If a ukrainian spent missile, still the fault of russia, though not as blatant. Worth another 1B of lethal aid to the ukraine id say.
Sam Adams
Member
Tue Nov 15 18:02:30
"and not article 4 consultations triggered by Poland."

Sounds like poland is leaning towards article 4. That would mean more military aid, adding more NATO forces to the border region, things like that.
Pillz
Member
Tue Nov 15 18:32:25
Lol @ Sam and retards
Sam Adams
Member
Tue Nov 15 20:02:35
^thought russia won.
Seb
Member
Wed Nov 16 01:01:53
Nhill:

I don't think it was precisely that I mocked you for.
williamthebastard
Member
Wed Nov 16 03:16:38
Since they've already been forced into a defensive stance on this matter and are preparing for some sort of backlash, we should take every chance to dominate them a little harder than theyre already worried about being.
Seb
Member
Wed Nov 16 04:51:53
WtB:

Uncharacteristically aggressive!

I tend to agree. But there are not a huge number of options unless NATO wants to increase the risk profile for further NATO/Russia clashes - which I don't think it wants as the assessment is momentum is with Ukraine and it is slowly gaining the upper hand.

I.e. there is a risk of upsetting the strategic context when it's working for NATO.
Seb
Member
Wed Nov 16 04:52:56
I suspect NATO consensus is that the current situation is fine and doing more may turn out to be counter productive.
Paramount
Member
Wed Nov 16 04:54:49
”still the fault of russia, though not as blatant. ”


Russis is responsible for their actions as Ukraine is responsible for their actions. But ultimately everything is the US fault for provoking the war.
williamthebastard
Member
Wed Nov 16 05:00:59
Yeah, the hard part, of course, that I dont have to worry about sitting here waiting for my guitar build to dry, is finding that line to cross over just a little bit.
jergul
large member
Wed Nov 16 05:46:42
It is entirely fair for Nato to look at how to deal with combat debris falling on its territory.

Do we need excuses to provide Ukraine with stuff? I was not aware.

However, there is grounds to be careful. About 1 billion people have bought into our narrative. The rest sort of look at Ukraine as Western hypocracy in motion.

Poland is hit by debris. Nato carefully waits to see which non nato member hit is before designing its response.

Not really a good look.

Sammy
How nice of you to repeat the argument that a war of aggression is the greatest crime. Containing within it the sum of all lesser crimes that may be comitted in a war.
williamthebastard
Member
Wed Nov 16 05:49:22
Not much to be done here. Too much zero intent etc.
jergul
large member
Wed Nov 16 05:50:45
"There is no indication that this was an intentional attack on Poland. Most likely, it was a Russian-made S-300 rocket. We have no proof at the moment that it was a missile fired by the Russian side," he tweeted Wednesday.

hehe, they are really trying to link it to Russia even when acknowledging it was Ukraine.

Yes, Ukrainian s-300 rockets were made in Russia. So technically true I suppose.
williamthebastard
Member
Wed Nov 16 05:53:29
If they were interested in lying, Jergul, they never would have reported it probably was from Ukraine to begin with even though that was slightly painful for the West and Ukraine to acknowledge. Perfect "black op" moment.
jergul
large member
Wed Nov 16 05:54:46
Polish President Andrzej Duda has said there is "no indication" that the missile that landed in Poland on Tuesday was an "intentional attack" on the country.

"There is no indication that this was an intentional attack on Poland. Most likely, it was a Russian-made S-300 rocket. We have no proof at the moment that it was a missile fired by the Russian side," he tweeted Wednesday.

He added that there were "many indications" that it was a Ukrainian air defense missile, which "unfortunately fell on Polish territory."

Duda said on Wednesday that the missile that landed in Poland on Tuesday was “probably an accident” from the Ukrainian side while intercepting incoming Russian missiles.  

“There is a high chance" that one of the Ukrainian air defense missiles fell on Poland's territory, he said speak at a press conference.

The landing of a missile in eastern Poland near the border with Ukraine marked the first time a NATO country had been directly hit during the conflict. It is not known who fired the missile, or precisely where it was fired from, though initial US assessments suggest it originated in Ukraine.

CNN

=====================

Initial US assessments are just journalists talking to Psyops. Those guys will automatically blame Russia because there is no downside. It muddies the waters.

How many of you still think it might of been Russia even now? You see? muddied waters.

Has the initial assessement by psyops guys destroyed your faith in US reports from unnamed sources? Nope? No downside.
jergul
large member
Wed Nov 16 06:03:33
In a broader sense, remember this later.

Russia does not have enough missiles to target apartment buildings. Something has gone wrong when those are hit. As a rule of thumb 2 times of three it is something wrong with air defence missiles and 1 times wrong with an attacking missile/drone (two intercepting missiles per target is SOP).
williamthebastard
Member
Wed Nov 16 06:07:56
Jergul, note the live example of Western media during the USA's not completely dissimilar invasion of Iraq and this event. Western media, with of course the christian nationalist exceptions, were hanging Bush and Blair out to dry. One day they'd be reporting that they'd found a secret chem lab, the next day the BBC or someone would be there saying, "there's nothing here but an old goat hut." One minister even committed suicide over the media scandal. This is not how Russian media is reacting at all. There is some difference. Though still lacking, we're more transparent than them.
williamthebastard
Member
Wed Nov 16 06:19:39
If the US banned all news except Breitbart, Newsmax, etc., then you'd have a similar media landscape.
williamthebastard
Member
Wed Nov 16 06:54:16
In fact, rather than wanting to pin it on Russia, its looking like they were quite happy to wipe their foreheads and not get too involved.
jergul
large member
Wed Nov 16 07:07:42
How did this turn into a conversation about Western versus Russian media? Or media at all?

Who are "They"? The rule to follow is always wait for named government officials to say something on the record, then read very carefully what they have actually said.

The psyops peeps I referred to are guys fighting in the information space. Sure, most of them are bots, but some are humans.

Do you agree or disagree that the missile that hit Poland is somehow at least partially Russia's fault?

First opinions stick. US psyops got ahead of the ball with "Russia dun it" and that will impact public perceptions in the future. Obaminated will no doubt talk about how Russia attacked Poland with missiles. Because that is how he will remember it.
williamthebastard
Member
Wed Nov 16 07:10:58
Nonsense, its rather looking like it was immediately leaked to the western media by western intel, because they dont want the headache. You wouldnt know about it without western media having informed you of it within hours.
jergul
large member
Wed Nov 16 07:11:21
Here, since you mentioned it.

Fifty-seven percent of mainstream media viewers believed that Iraq gave substantial support to Al-Qaeda, or was directly involved in the September 11 attacks (48% after invasion).
Sixty-nine percent believed that Saddam Hussein was personally involved in the September 11 attacks.
Twenty-two percent believed that weapons of mass destruction had been found in Iraq. (Twenty-one percent believed that chem/bio weapons had actually been used against U.S. soldiers in Iraq during 2003)
In the composite analysis of the PIPA study, 80% of Fox News watchers had one or more of these perceptions, in contrast to 71% for CBS and 27% who tuned to NPR/PBS.

Wiki
jergul
large member
Wed Nov 16 07:14:07
You are a silly man. Are you now denying that unnamed intelligence sources said "Russia dun it" and that this was cited by Western media?

Or denying that quite a few people are working quite hard at framing the conflict with a strong pro Ukrainian bias?
williamthebastard
Member
Wed Nov 16 07:16:04
Funny how you intently avoided the next sentence

"In the composite analysis of the PIPA study, 80% of Fox News watchers had one or more of these perceptions, in contrast to 71% for CBS and 27% who tuned to NPR/PBS.[18]"

not to mention, "After the invasion, the editors of the New York Times apologized for its coverage of Hussein's alleged weapons programs, acknowledging that "we wish we had been more aggressive in re-examining the claims"

But certainly US media was in general more gung ho than then Western world in general, though the liberal US media came to move from somewhat critical to highly critical, while Western media in general was highly critical (barring, as mentioned, the far right).
jergul
large member
Wed Nov 16 07:16:58
Again, who are "They"? Certainly not the psyops dudes working on framing our understanding of the fighting.

Let me ask you this. Do you think Russia is intentionally targetting apartment buildings with kalibr cruise missiles?

What lead you to believe that?
williamthebastard
Member
Wed Nov 16 07:18:17
From your source: "In November 2005, the Los Angeles Times reported on a secret Pentagon program to pay Iraqi media outlets to publish articles favorable of the U.S. invasion and occupation."

You notice how the LA Times is allowed to report things like that?
jergul
large member
Wed Nov 16 07:18:45
Your recollection of media coverage is incorrect. It took a quite some time for the media to get over giddy embedded reporting.

Abu Graib was the breaking point.
williamthebastard
Member
Wed Nov 16 07:19:43
There is an obvious difference in western and Russian media/i.e. sources of yours and mine information.

"Let me ask you this. Do you think Russia is intentionally targetting apartment buildings with kalibr cruise missiles?"

I dont really know. It does look like theyre intent on devastating cities and they do seem to view many civilians as hidden agents.
williamthebastard
Member
Wed Nov 16 07:20:47
I think the orders in some places have to been to obliterate everything in front of them.
jergul
large member
Wed Nov 16 07:21:38
Still not getting why you think this is a discussion of Western versus Russian media.
williamthebastard
Member
Wed Nov 16 07:22:33
because thats the source of all our info when we're talking about govts wanting to pin this on russia and thus sway public opinion by using propaganda
jergul
large member
Wed Nov 16 07:23:43
You should know. Kalibr missiles are used against high valued targets.

Let me ask you how many Ukrainian civilians do you think have been confirmed killed in the war?
williamthebastard
Member
Wed Nov 16 07:25:00
Nobody expects the Norwegian inquisition! Neither you nor I know.
williamthebastard
Member
Wed Nov 16 07:26:30
Our govts might lie about the fatality numbers, but freedom of information and freedom of speech are better in the West, thus our sources are somewhat more reliable.
jergul
large member
Wed Nov 16 07:27:01
I am not talking about governments wanting to pin it on Russia. That would be crazy. Though there are some crazy governments of course.

I am talking about psyops molding misconceptions. Like leaving some of us thinking Russia did actually fire the missile and most of us thinking, well to be fair, Russia is at least partially to blame for undefined reasons.

Propaganda has an agenda of its own. Sometimes governments will end up riding the tiger.
jergul
large member
Wed Nov 16 07:31:15
Give a guess. how many Ukrainians have died according to the UN?

Your logic does not follow. Are we heavily scrutinizing Ukraine at all? Nope. They say something, we report it.

The Russian MOD is objectively a better source than its Ukrainian equivalent. Nevermind that masses of political figures we quote every time they stand on a soapbox.
jergul
large member
Wed Nov 16 07:33:02
We do not lie about the death toll. The number is simply buried and ignored because it does not suit the narrative.

Let me guess. You were off by at least an order of magnitude, right?
jergul
large member
Wed Nov 16 07:37:50
The bbc and meduza have also found a good way of reporting Russian military losses. They scrub the internet for obituaries, high school in memorandums etc.

While there is an element of underreporting inherent to the method, the number is not commonly cited because it too does not suit the narrative.
williamthebastard
Member
Wed Nov 16 07:39:56
Dammit, Jergul just blew my mind. I've never thought that you might have to consider more than one side! And, yes, he guessed right! I was off by millions! This guy is like Uri Geller
williamthebastard
Member
Wed Nov 16 07:41:43
Anyway, back on topic, the West and Ukraine are at odds. Ukraine would like there to be a Russian connection while the West is saying, not really.
jergul
large member
Wed Nov 16 07:41:57
Here:

"From 24 February to 2 October 2022, OHCHR recorded 15,246 civilian casualties in Ukraine: 6,114 killed and 9,132 injured."

Всего известно о 8003 погибши (as of 5th of november)

8003 known killed. Another 6500 from Donbas.
jergul
large member
Wed Nov 16 07:42:42
I would guess you were thinking a couple 100d thousand dead civilians.
williamthebastard
Member
Wed Nov 16 07:43:22
"I would guess you were thinking a couple 100d thousand dead civilians."

I was thinking 50-60 million, so thank you!
jergul
large member
Wed Nov 16 07:43:29
The 8003 killed are soldiers found by way of internet scrubs.
jergul
large member
Wed Nov 16 07:44:35
Or you could just admit you were in gross error because your perspective has been screwed by psyops.

Whatever. I dont have high expectations.
williamthebastard
Member
Wed Nov 16 07:45:17
No, because youre an idiot to think I thought the civilian death count was hundreds of thousands.
jergul
large member
Wed Nov 16 07:47:29
You could ask why the BBC is not doing an equivalent scrub of Ukrainian sources to get an estimate of Ukrainian dead soldiers.

Hell, lets ask that.

The BBC has a method for finding the minimum number of killed soldiers. Why is it only using that method on Russia? Ukraine as we know is not reporting its losses.
jergul
large member
Wed Nov 16 07:47:55
I am pretty sure you did. You seem the type.
Habebe
Member
Wed Nov 16 07:48:35
Jergul, "I am not talking about governments wanting to pin it on Russia. That would be crazy. Though there are some crazy governments of course."

There are also crazier individuals within more sane governments.

Or the idea that, you never let a crisis go to waste.

Zelensky openly said the strike came from Russia.

Kuleba said it was a "conspirscy theory" to even suggest it was a Ukrainian air defence accident.

These people want the US to be more involved.
williamthebastard
Member
Wed Nov 16 07:49:20
Anyway, what does it indicate that the West were so forthcoming, despite Ukrainian efforts, to claim Russia cannot be blamed, at least not for intent? Probably just gutless and still scared of his nukes.
jergul
large member
Wed Nov 16 07:59:23
The US wants to control the pace of escalation silly.

Russian cannot be blamed? No way. Lets check.

This is not Ukraine's fault. Russia bears ultimate responsibility, as it continues its illegal war against Ukraine." Stoltenberg.
williamthebastard
Member
Wed Nov 16 08:01:38
"Overall, Acled has reported more than 10,000 deaths in Ukraine since the conflict began.

Mariupol, in the south-east, Kharkiv, in the north-east, and Bilohorivka, in the east, have seen some of the heaviest casualties.

How many civilians have died?
From Acled's totals, BBC News has identified about 3,600 civilian deaths as of mid-June, while the UN has confirmed about 4,700 during the conflict up to the end of the month. "In total, we estimate [in addition to the confirmed deaths] that at least 3,000 civilians have died in besieged or contested cities because they couldn't get medical care and because of the stress on their health amid the hostilities," head of the UN Human Rights Monitoring Mission in Ukraine Matilda Bogner says."

Nobody serious is talking about anything like hundreds of thousands of civilian deaths
williamthebastard
Member
Wed Nov 16 08:03:06
Fake arguments based on fake numbers are boring. Now how is that fucking never-ending headstock varnish coming along?
jergul
large member
Wed Nov 16 08:17:53
You had your chance to guess what you thought, but did not take it.

I was trying to illustrate the power of psyops.

Most people think way more civilians have been killed in Ukraine than has been documented. Most by at least an order of magnitude.

Well, mission accomplished. At least you know for now how many civilians have died in this truly brutal war. Until you forget again. Pscyops do erode our sense of reality.
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Wed Nov 16 08:29:44
Jergul
”Are we heavily scrutinizing Ukraine at all?”

Decades of cultural indoctrination has taught us that we should not blame the victim because that the victim is always right.

Though I have to admit Zelensky adamantly claiming it was Russian triggered me. Either he was lied to by his henchmen or he was straight up was lying.

jergul
large member
Wed Nov 16 08:35:34
That is something I frankly do not understand.

Ukraine is the victimetoo. Why is masking the costs it is paying so important?
Pillz
Member
Wed Nov 16 17:00:15
Chronicle of undeclared Ukrainian aggression against NATO.

1. March 2 - Ukrainian S-300 air defense system destroyed a Romanian MiG-21 fighter. The pilot is dead.
2. March 2 - Ukrainian air defense shot down a Romanian military transport helicopter Mi-8, which flew out to look for a MiG-21 fighter shot down by Ukraine.
3. March 3 - Estonian bulk carrier Helt was blown up by a Ukrainian naval mine off the coast of Odessa. Four people are missing.
4. March 10 - Ukrainian UAV Tu-141 "Swift" attacked Zagreb. Luckily, no one died.
5. March 13 - Ukrainian Volkssturm shot down the car of an American journalist from the New York Times, Brent Reno, in the Irpen region, who, according to Iranian intelligence services, worked as a CIA officer in Iraq.
6. September 9 - a Romanian minesweeper was blown up by a Ukrainian naval mine near Constanta. Luckily, there were no fatalities.
7. November 9 - A Turkish boat was blown up by a Ukrainian naval mine off the coast of Turkey. Luckily, no one died.
8. November 15 - The Ukrainian S-300 air defense system attacked Poland, destroying 2 Polish citizens and a tractor trailer.

Under the guise of a war with Russia, Ukraine is waging a hybrid war against NATO!

Boris rozhin
Pillz
Member
Wed Nov 16 17:07:03
The actions of Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky turned out to be irresponsible as he accused Russia of launching a missile attack in eastern Poland, although the Ukrainians were to blame for this incident - Gergely Gouyash, head of the office of the Prime Minister of Hungary

Sam and murder are such fucking retards
Pillz
Member
Wed Nov 16 17:07:30
The head of the Lublin City Council criticizes Ukraine and calls to reconsider Poland's views on this war:

"I absolutely do not understand the actions of our President and government... It is obvious that this is a Ukrainian missile. It is obvious that this is a provocation on the part of the Ukrainian authorities. The missile could not have been launched 100 km in the opposite direction by mistake. Today, our president should not reassure us with fairy tales like "it was not so much a rocket explosion, but an explosion of fuel that was there" and "it was accident", but to make it clear to V. Zelensky that Poland will no longer tolerate such behavior of the Ukrainian authorities! I urge you to reconsider Poland's position on this war in the event of another crossing of the red line!"

Lmao, stupid fucking americans
Habebe
Member
Wed Nov 16 18:10:25
Jergul, You know the answer. Their donors have to paint them as the ragtag under dogs who win the day.
jergul
large member
Thu Nov 17 04:49:24
Habebe
More specifically, why don't they understand they are destroying democracy in the West (including in Ukraine).

They seem to get it with Russian sponsored fb posts and the Trump administration's loose relationship with the truth 2016+.

Pillz
It could definitely have been launched by mistake. But that is the problem with systematic lying.

When we cannot take at face value anything, then we have to look at means, motive, opportunity. Ei who gains?

Well, Ukraine gains by debris landing in Nato no matter who the debris belongs to.

The Ukrainian government really should change its policies. At some point the disconnect between what it says and what is actually true becomes great enough to undermine the war effort quite significantly.
jergul
large member
Thu Nov 17 04:49:56
Destroying is too strong. Undermining is better.
jergul
large member
Thu Nov 17 05:08:59
The G20 thing is another example I suppose. India and China thinks the fighting should stop. Does that mean it thinks fighting should stop only when all Ukrainian goals are met or all Russian goals are met?

Nope. It means they think fighting should stop now and negotiations should start now.

Why not after all? Do you think India was happy with the Kashmir ceasefire?
jergul
large member
Thu Nov 17 05:50:44
At some point we probably should start asking what has happened with the bulk of the 300k mobilized (+ another 50k "volunteers").

Kherson did indicate a vulerability to supply interdiction by taking out bridges across the Dnipro. Ukraine currently controls 19 road and rail bridges across the river.

Russia does have the means to take out 19 bridges. Without nukes even (it has hypersonic missiles that have a kinetic energy impact of 17 tons tnt without an active warhead. To name one system).

Give me a reason for why that would not cause huge problems for Ukrainian defensive and offensive capabilities including air defences almost immediately.

The main deterrent is gone (namely that it would give Ukraine a huge buildup in the west to deal with Russian forces already across the river).
jergul
large member
Thu Nov 17 19:50:08
Let me rephrase the last.

Is not Ukraine gambling rather a lot on the Russian Federation being unable to take out 19 bridges?
Paramount
Member
Fri Nov 18 01:49:13
” Chronicle of undeclared Ukrainian aggression against NATO.”


Don’t know if this counts as an aggression against Nato, but:

”Siberia Airlines Flight 1812[2] was a commercial flight shot down by the Ukrainian Air Force over the Black Sea on 4 October 2001, en route from Tel Aviv, Israel to Novosibirsk,”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siberia_Airlines_Flight_1812


We should probably re-investigate the shooting down of the MH17 flight.
Sam Adams
Member
Fri Nov 18 09:37:32
"according to Iranian intelligence services"

Lol retard.
McKobb
Member
Fri Nov 18 16:44:41
waiting for Putin to flee to africa before he gets ganked.
Pillz
Member
Mon Nov 21 05:58:30
http://www...ian-soldiers-shot-ukraine.html
Sam Adams
Member
Mon Nov 21 11:26:10
Fake surrenders are indeed a war crime. A group of russians gave the appearance of surrendering. At least one russian then opened fire, and ukraine fired back. All the russians died. Whether all the russians were part of the crime or just the one is unknown, but the bad guys paid the price and we can all be happy that the ukrainians were not hurt.
Sam Adams
Member
Mon Nov 21 11:30:22
Actually i am told 1 ukrainian was injured by that russian war crime/fake surrender.

Sad :(. Hope he heels quickly.
Paramount
Member
Mon Nov 21 17:48:53
I don’t trust anything that Ukraine says. They have lied so much about everything that everything they say must now be dismissed as more lies.
Paramount
Member
Mon Nov 21 18:14:53
Btw, did you all hear what the new British PM, Sunak, said during a press conference when he met with Zelenskyj in Ukraine a few days ago?


”I am here today to say that the UK will continue to stand with you … until Ukraine has won the peace and security it needs and deserves,” Sunak said in a news conference with Zelenskyy in Kyiv.”


Note how he did not say that the UK will stand with Ukraine until they have won the war. Because they already know that the war is lost. Now they must try to make as good peace deal as possible.
Sam Adams
Member
Mon Nov 21 21:18:53
"Paramount
Member Mon Nov 21 17:48:53
I don’t trust anything that Ukraine says."

You shouldnt.

You should watch the videos. The actual videos, not some youtube weenie talking.
murder
Member
Mon Nov 21 22:24:29

I'm fine with Ukraine killing every single Russian inside its borders whether they try to surrender or not.

Pillz
Member
Wed Nov 23 12:11:24
Russia wrecked Ukrainian energy grid again. Ukraine claims 51/70 missiles and 4 drones downed.

List of power and water outages...

Power outage at:
– Kyiv and regions
— Dnepropetrovsk
— Krivoy Rog
— Poltava
— Zaporozhye
— Nikolaev
- Odessa and the region.
— Rivne and regions
– Khmelnytskyi and the region
— Kremenets-Podolsk
— Kirovograd region
— Kharkov
— Lutsk
— Cherkassy
— Chernihiv
— Sumac
— Zhytomyr
Interruptions and shutdowns of water in:
— Kyiv
— Sumac
— Nikolaev
— Kharkov
— Dnepropetrovsk
— Odessa

At least 1 US made Ukrainian air defense missile struck a civilian building - Ukrainian photos of wreckage are online

http://t.me/intelslava/41644?single

Trains across the countries are mostly halted, diseil engines being used as backup.
Pillz
Member
Wed Nov 23 12:12:37
Diesel*
Country*

Power out across much of Moldova as well, as a result of the Odessa outage.
Pillz
Member
Wed Nov 23 12:18:08
German Air defence aid for Ukraine being sent to Poland instead lmao

Baltic countries refusing to send aid packages, preferring to shore up their own air defense.

US tried to buy 100k 155mm shells from South Korea to send to Ukraine because of subsustainably low stockpiles. South Korea refused, citing the desire to not involve itseld in the conflict.

Taiwan cancelled the delivery of M109s because the delivery was delayed to 2026 because everything has been sent to Ukraine. They want HIMARS instead now, raising their order from 11 to 29 for 2027 :o)

Pillz
Member
Wed Nov 23 12:19:51
The Armed Forces of Ukraine are building defensive lines around Kiev.

Vorposte

http://t.me/intelslava/41667?single

This bodes well, surely. Moscow is next, right murder? =o)
habebe
Member
Wed Nov 23 12:28:11
AP=fake news.

Made up fake story for sensationalism and risked escelation.
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