Utopia Talk - Politics - GOP programmed to commit suicide

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Utopia Talk / Politics / GOP programmed to commit suicide

williamthebastard
Member Sat Nov 19 04:04:09
ABSTRACT

Yale School of Public Health
Yale School of Management

Political affiliation has emerged as a potential risk factor for COVID-19, amid evidence that Republican-leaning counties have had higher COVID-19 death rates than Democrat- leaning counties and evidence of a link between political party affiliation and vaccination views.

The Republican excess death rate rose to nearly double that of Democrats, and this gap widened further in the winter of 2021.

Overall, the excess death rate for Republicans was 5.4 percentage points (pp), or 76%, higher than the excess death rate for Democrats. Post- vaccines, the excess death rate gap between Republicans and Democrats widened from 1.6 pp (22% of the Democrat excess death rate) to 10.4 pp (153% of the Democrat excess death rate). The gap in excess death rates between Republicans and Democrats is concentrated in counties with low vaccination rates and only materializes after vaccines became widely available.

This sharp contrast in the excess death rate gap before and after vaccines were available suggests that vaccine take-up likely played an important role.

Oh well

williamthebastard
Member Sat Nov 19 04:06:20
tinyurl.com/msnpkm68

Habebe
Member Sat Nov 19 04:06:21
Is French politics so boring for you?

williamthebastard
Member Sat Nov 19 04:10:00
Wonder if this was enough to impact the elections? About 750' dead Magans compared to 250 dead Dems, according to this, I think?

Habebe
Member Sat Nov 19 04:19:58
Does it have location breakdown? Id bet FLA was pretty high on the list considering the age of the population.

And FLA is more Republican of a state than CA is Democratic.

williamthebastard
Member Sat Nov 19 04:26:05
Maybe 2/3 of that or something, actually, given some deaths were minors

Habebe
Member Sat Nov 19 04:32:13
http://www...d-deaths-from-covid-by-age-us/

Almost no minors died.Definitley not 1/3!

I don't know what the far left news is saying but that estimate is way out of line with reality.

williamthebastard
Member Sat Nov 19 04:50:30
So only about 62% of adults voted in the re-election, plus minors, convicts, abstainers, etc, mebbe around 2/3 or 75 million GOPers. Also, 750 000 dead GOPers. So the GOP lost 1% of its total voters in the last election.

williamthebastard
Member Sat Nov 19 04:51:37
* Who died because of their pathological political mental problems.

williamthebastard
Member Sat Nov 19 04:54:56
Actually, they lost 0.5% to their social psychosis, since, if theyd taken precautions at the same level as the Dems, they likely would have lost half as many

Habebe
Member Sat Nov 19 05:02:47
Forgive me if I take your assumptions with a grain of salt considering you beleive 300k of deaths were minors.

williamthebastard
Member Sat Nov 19 05:04:45
I once read a pre-Qanon/Maga definition of shared psychotic disorder, which stated roughly that if a guy's wife is going through a psychosis and starts seeing lizard aliens, and the husband starts to believe her due to emotional attachment, solidarity, her past record of being so reliable, etc. etc., he thus starts to believe in psychotic delusions even though he is not psychotic himself. It's amazing that Mag/Qanon nailed this down even to the lizard aliens.

williamthebastard
Member Sat Nov 19 05:16:02
If they used that example - where the author tried to conjure up the most blatant example of mental ill health he could think of - in a class today, insanely, they'd receive complaints from right-wingers saying the example was a leftist political hit. Seriously.

Habebe
Member Sat Nov 19 05:46:16
The irony of the left calling rightwingers crazy.

jergul
large member Sat Nov 19 08:00:53
Excess deaths in the covid period amounted to almost 1 million.

Habebe
Member Sat Nov 19 08:24:10
I think there is a good conversation to be had on what methods faired better in regards to covid policy.

Now we are starting to see all the damage school closures did to kids for example.

There are ups and downs to every method.

jergul
large member Sat Nov 19 08:53:23
No conversation to be had. When a pandemic breaks out with unclear but heavy death tolls, then the pandemic must be contained by rigerous measures.

We have know this intuitively forever and scientifically since the 17th century. The methods used to limit damage is 19th century stuff that has been fully betatested back then.

We had a century without a major pandemic in the West due to numerous advances, but that is not the norm.

patom
Member Sat Nov 19 10:36:27
I would say that in the last 20-30 years we have seen the rise of the vaccine deniers. Now if you want a conspiracy, that would be a good one. Were we being set up to ignore good advice in the face of a germ war?

William's point is exemplified if you compare a hard red state like S. Dakota and what is comparable population wise in Maine.
I'm not going to look up and print all the comparisons between these two states. But the population of Maine is about 1/2 million more than S. Dakota with a much higher population density. Yet S. Dakota racked up about 500 more deaths.
Maine isn't free of Anti-vaxxers but we did have a Governor who was willing to follow the dictates of the Medical/Scientific community of experts, as much as she was allowed.

Habebe
Member Sat Nov 19 10:58:05
Jergul, Plenty of discussion to be had and an autopsy on policy and effectiveness and varying impacts.

A 2 week lock down and a 2 yr lockdown are very different things.

murder
Member Sat Nov 19 11:02:15

"Political affiliation has emerged as a potential risk factor for COVID-19, amid evidence that Republican-leaning counties have had higher COVID-19 death rates than Democrat- leaning counties and evidence of a link between political party affiliation and vaccination views."

Republican leaning doesn't mean that the people who are dying are Republicans.

Rugian
Member Sat Nov 19 11:03:11
Jergul, as with most Norwegians, is a virtual shut-in even during normal times.

Its not surprise whatsoever that he would be shilling CCP-style lockdowns.

murder
Member Sat Nov 19 11:05:44

There were absolutely no lockdowns in the US.

williamthebastard
Member Sat Nov 19 11:08:31
"Republican leaning doesn't mean that the people who are dying are Republicans."

This study constructs an individual-level dataset with political affiliation and excess death rates during the COVID-19 pandemic via a linkage of 2017 voter registration in Ohio and Florida to mortality data from 2018 to 2021.

williamthebastard
Member Sat Nov 19 11:10:54
They used dead, registered voters, and then further divided them into categories according to age, etc.

williamthebastard
Member Sat Nov 19 11:12:38
Also, a very large sample, almost 600,000 deceased, registered voters.

williamthebastard
Member Sat Nov 19 11:16:10
On a sidenote, its always felt weird that you register your political inclination with the govt. In Europe, thats strictly private.

williamthebastard
Member Sat Nov 19 11:21:51
The only people who have an official file on them containing their political affiliation in Europe are political criminals being monitored by MI6.

Habebe
Member Sat Nov 19 11:31:04
"The only people who have an official file on them containing their political affiliation in Europe are political criminals being monitored by MI6."

Why separate? They are all pretty much communists.

Habebe
Member Sat Nov 19 11:31:05
"The only people who have an official file on them containing their political affiliation in Europe are political criminals being monitored by MI6."

Why separate? They are all pretty much communists.

williamthebastard
Member Sat Nov 19 11:32:35
You missed a bit of drool in the corner of your mouth there, sonny.

murder
Member Sat Nov 19 11:33:17

"On a sidenote, its always felt weird that you register your political inclination with the govt. In Europe, thats strictly private."

That what happens when you have closed party primaries.

williamthebastard
Member Sat Nov 19 11:35:29
I'm missing the connection between closed primaries and registered voters? Unfamiliar with that system

tumbleweed
the wanderer Sat Nov 19 11:48:17
you have to be registered as a party to participate in that party's primary (if a closed primary)

ensuring the most extreme candidate gets nominated & whom Independents (who outnumber either party) find least desirable & thus the bulk of people go into the general election voting for who they hate least rather than someone they like

murder
Member Sat Nov 19 12:00:59

"I'm missing the connection between closed primaries and registered voters? Unfamiliar with that system"

Even though they are party primaries, the state runs them, so they need to be able to ensure that Democrats don't vote in the GOP primary and vice versa.

murder
Member Sat Nov 19 12:02:09

"ensuring the most extreme candidate gets nominated & whom Independents (who outnumber either party) find least desirable & thus the bulk of people go into the general election voting for who they hate least rather than someone they like"

Yes ... and others stay home.

williamthebastard
Member Sat Nov 19 12:12:55
right, gotcha

williamthebastard
Member Sat Nov 19 12:16:43
I'm sure the GOP will amend that in time to everyone is allowed to vote anonymously in D primaries but only 3 undisclosed people will be allowed to vote in R primaries, because the media is so mean to them

murder
Member Sat Nov 19 13:34:42

I'm surprised that they let anyone vote. They aren't required to.

Habebe
Member Sat Nov 19 15:14:13
The Democrat party owes no one a fair primary nor do they deliver one.

How do we know this? They literally said so in court.

http://www...-anyone-a-fair-primary-process

kargen
Member Sat Nov 19 15:15:53
"amid evidence that Republican-leaning counties have had higher COVID-19 death rates than Democrat- leaning counties"

Republican leaning counties tend to be rural. When Colorado had different threat levels for COVID one death in the county I live in would jump the county up two levels on the chart. If you compare total number of deaths in Democrat and Republican leaning counties Democrats would have much higher numbers. Of course that isn't a fair measure either.

The study looked at excess death rates not deaths from COVID and just assumed the deaths were COVID related. Reading the report it seems they had an expected outcome/conclusion and then went looking for data supporting their desired results.

williamthebastard
Member Sat Nov 19 15:36:57
Yes, its well known that car accidents suddenly shot up by hundreds of thousands of percent during a lethal pandemic and then subsided as the pandemic subsided and vaccines began to take effect. That must be why all the deniers at the time were saying, "Oh yeah? If Covid is so bad, whats the excess death rate then?"

williamthebastard
Member Sat Nov 19 15:39:49
and they used multivariable linear regression models to even out differences between counties

Habebe
Member Sat Nov 19 15:42:04
Suicides and drug overdoses did shoot up, probably not enough to account for that number.

But what are the total numbers of dead registered dems VS GOP registered voters? Is that a number we have available?

Habebe
Member Sat Nov 19 15:58:35
They only did studies in Ohio and Florida btw.

http://www...vid19-death-rates-us-by-state/

Death rates by state. Kind of a mixed bag, FLA did pretty well considering how old the population is. CA did pretty well considering how many homeless they have.

NY/NJ did bad. Missisipi did bad, but that's expected lots of unhealthy poor people.

Habebe
Member Sat Nov 19 16:22:57
The irony being that the GOP had massive wins in both OH and FLA.

kargen
Member Sat Nov 19 16:33:42
"Yes, its well known that car accidents suddenly shot up by hundreds of thousands of percent during a lethal pandemic and then subsided as the pandemic subsided and vaccines began to take effect."

Deaths from car accidents actually did increase. Idiots were taking advantage of empty or near empty roads speeding and attempting to do stupid tricks.

show deleted posts

williamthebastard Member	Sat Nov 19 04:04:09 ABSTRACT Yale School of Public Health Yale School of Management Political affiliation has emerged as a potential risk factor for COVID-19, amid evidence that Republican-leaning counties have had higher COVID-19 death rates than Democrat- leaning counties and evidence of a link between political party affiliation and vaccination views. The Republican excess death rate rose to nearly double that of Democrats, and this gap widened further in the winter of 2021. Overall, the excess death rate for Republicans was 5.4 percentage points (pp), or 76%, higher than the excess death rate for Democrats. Post- vaccines, the excess death rate gap between Republicans and Democrats widened from 1.6 pp (22% of the Democrat excess death rate) to 10.4 pp (153% of the Democrat excess death rate). The gap in excess death rates between Republicans and Democrats is concentrated in counties with low vaccination rates and only materializes after vaccines became widely available. This sharp contrast in the excess death rate gap before and after vaccines were available suggests that vaccine take-up likely played an important role. Oh well
williamthebastard Member	Sat Nov 19 04:06:20 tinyurl.com/msnpkm68
Habebe Member	Sat Nov 19 04:06:21 Is French politics so boring for you?
williamthebastard Member	Sat Nov 19 04:10:00 Wonder if this was enough to impact the elections? About 750' dead Magans compared to 250 dead Dems, according to this, I think?
Habebe Member	Sat Nov 19 04:19:58 Does it have location breakdown? Id bet FLA was pretty high on the list considering the age of the population. And FLA is more Republican of a state than CA is Democratic.
williamthebastard Member	Sat Nov 19 04:26:05 Maybe 2/3 of that or something, actually, given some deaths were minors
Habebe Member	Sat Nov 19 04:32:13 http://www...d-deaths-from-covid-by-age-us/ Almost no minors died.Definitley not 1/3! I don't know what the far left news is saying but that estimate is way out of line with reality.
williamthebastard Member	Sat Nov 19 04:50:30 So only about 62% of adults voted in the re-election, plus minors, convicts, abstainers, etc, mebbe around 2/3 or 75 million GOPers. Also, 750 000 dead GOPers. So the GOP lost 1% of its total voters in the last election.
williamthebastard Member	Sat Nov 19 04:51:37 * Who died because of their pathological political mental problems.
williamthebastard Member	Sat Nov 19 04:54:56 Actually, they lost 0.5% to their social psychosis, since, if theyd taken precautions at the same level as the Dems, they likely would have lost half as many
Habebe Member	Sat Nov 19 05:02:47 Forgive me if I take your assumptions with a grain of salt considering you beleive 300k of deaths were minors.
williamthebastard Member	Sat Nov 19 05:04:45 I once read a pre-Qanon/Maga definition of shared psychotic disorder, which stated roughly that if a guy's wife is going through a psychosis and starts seeing lizard aliens, and the husband starts to believe her due to emotional attachment, solidarity, her past record of being so reliable, etc. etc., he thus starts to believe in psychotic delusions even though he is not psychotic himself. It's amazing that Mag/Qanon nailed this down even to the lizard aliens.
williamthebastard Member	Sat Nov 19 05:16:02 If they used that example - where the author tried to conjure up the most blatant example of mental ill health he could think of - in a class today, insanely, they'd receive complaints from right-wingers saying the example was a leftist political hit. Seriously.
Habebe Member	Sat Nov 19 05:46:16 The irony of the left calling rightwingers crazy.
jergul large member	Sat Nov 19 08:00:53 Excess deaths in the covid period amounted to almost 1 million.
Habebe Member	Sat Nov 19 08:24:10 I think there is a good conversation to be had on what methods faired better in regards to covid policy. Now we are starting to see all the damage school closures did to kids for example. There are ups and downs to every method.
jergul large member	Sat Nov 19 08:53:23 No conversation to be had. When a pandemic breaks out with unclear but heavy death tolls, then the pandemic must be contained by rigerous measures. We have know this intuitively forever and scientifically since the 17th century. The methods used to limit damage is 19th century stuff that has been fully betatested back then. We had a century without a major pandemic in the West due to numerous advances, but that is not the norm.
patom Member	Sat Nov 19 10:36:27 I would say that in the last 20-30 years we have seen the rise of the vaccine deniers. Now if you want a conspiracy, that would be a good one. Were we being set up to ignore good advice in the face of a germ war? William's point is exemplified if you compare a hard red state like S. Dakota and what is comparable population wise in Maine. I'm not going to look up and print all the comparisons between these two states. But the population of Maine is about 1/2 million more than S. Dakota with a much higher population density. Yet S. Dakota racked up about 500 more deaths. Maine isn't free of Anti-vaxxers but we did have a Governor who was willing to follow the dictates of the Medical/Scientific community of experts, as much as she was allowed.
Habebe Member	Sat Nov 19 10:58:05 Jergul, Plenty of discussion to be had and an autopsy on policy and effectiveness and varying impacts. A 2 week lock down and a 2 yr lockdown are very different things.
murder Member	Sat Nov 19 11:02:15 "Political affiliation has emerged as a potential risk factor for COVID-19, amid evidence that Republican-leaning counties have had higher COVID-19 death rates than Democrat- leaning counties and evidence of a link between political party affiliation and vaccination views." Republican leaning doesn't mean that the people who are dying are Republicans.
Rugian Member	Sat Nov 19 11:03:11 Jergul, as with most Norwegians, is a virtual shut-in even during normal times. Its not surprise whatsoever that he would be shilling CCP-style lockdowns.
murder Member	Sat Nov 19 11:05:44 There were absolutely no lockdowns in the US.
williamthebastard Member	Sat Nov 19 11:08:31 "Republican leaning doesn't mean that the people who are dying are Republicans." This study constructs an individual-level dataset with political affiliation and excess death rates during the COVID-19 pandemic via a linkage of 2017 voter registration in Ohio and Florida to mortality data from 2018 to 2021.
williamthebastard Member	Sat Nov 19 11:10:54 They used dead, registered voters, and then further divided them into categories according to age, etc.
williamthebastard Member	Sat Nov 19 11:12:38 Also, a very large sample, almost 600,000 deceased, registered voters.
williamthebastard Member	Sat Nov 19 11:16:10 On a sidenote, its always felt weird that you register your political inclination with the govt. In Europe, thats strictly private.
williamthebastard Member	Sat Nov 19 11:21:51 The only people who have an official file on them containing their political affiliation in Europe are political criminals being monitored by MI6.
Habebe Member	Sat Nov 19 11:31:04 "The only people who have an official file on them containing their political affiliation in Europe are political criminals being monitored by MI6." Why separate? They are all pretty much communists.
Habebe Member	Sat Nov 19 11:31:05 "The only people who have an official file on them containing their political affiliation in Europe are political criminals being monitored by MI6." Why separate? They are all pretty much communists.
williamthebastard Member	Sat Nov 19 11:32:35 You missed a bit of drool in the corner of your mouth there, sonny.
murder Member	Sat Nov 19 11:33:17 "On a sidenote, its always felt weird that you register your political inclination with the govt. In Europe, thats strictly private." That what happens when you have closed party primaries.
williamthebastard Member	Sat Nov 19 11:35:29 I'm missing the connection between closed primaries and registered voters? Unfamiliar with that system
tumbleweed the wanderer	Sat Nov 19 11:48:17 you have to be registered as a party to participate in that party's primary (if a closed primary) ensuring the most extreme candidate gets nominated & whom Independents (who outnumber either party) find least desirable & thus the bulk of people go into the general election voting for who they hate least rather than someone they like
murder Member	Sat Nov 19 12:00:59 "I'm missing the connection between closed primaries and registered voters? Unfamiliar with that system" Even though they are party primaries, the state runs them, so they need to be able to ensure that Democrats don't vote in the GOP primary and vice versa.
murder Member	Sat Nov 19 12:02:09 "ensuring the most extreme candidate gets nominated & whom Independents (who outnumber either party) find least desirable & thus the bulk of people go into the general election voting for who they hate least rather than someone they like" Yes ... and others stay home.
williamthebastard Member	Sat Nov 19 12:12:55 right, gotcha
williamthebastard Member	Sat Nov 19 12:16:43 I'm sure the GOP will amend that in time to everyone is allowed to vote anonymously in D primaries but only 3 undisclosed people will be allowed to vote in R primaries, because the media is so mean to them
murder Member	Sat Nov 19 13:34:42 I'm surprised that they let anyone vote. They aren't required to.
Habebe Member	Sat Nov 19 15:14:13 The Democrat party owes no one a fair primary nor do they deliver one. How do we know this? They literally said so in court. http://www...-anyone-a-fair-primary-process
kargen Member	Sat Nov 19 15:15:53 "amid evidence that Republican-leaning counties have had higher COVID-19 death rates than Democrat- leaning counties" Republican leaning counties tend to be rural. When Colorado had different threat levels for COVID one death in the county I live in would jump the county up two levels on the chart. If you compare total number of deaths in Democrat and Republican leaning counties Democrats would have much higher numbers. Of course that isn't a fair measure either. The study looked at excess death rates not deaths from COVID and just assumed the deaths were COVID related. Reading the report it seems they had an expected outcome/conclusion and then went looking for data supporting their desired results.
williamthebastard Member	Sat Nov 19 15:36:57 Yes, its well known that car accidents suddenly shot up by hundreds of thousands of percent during a lethal pandemic and then subsided as the pandemic subsided and vaccines began to take effect. That must be why all the deniers at the time were saying, "Oh yeah? If Covid is so bad, whats the excess death rate then?"
williamthebastard Member	Sat Nov 19 15:39:49 and they used multivariable linear regression models to even out differences between counties
Habebe Member	Sat Nov 19 15:42:04 Suicides and drug overdoses did shoot up, probably not enough to account for that number. But what are the total numbers of dead registered dems VS GOP registered voters? Is that a number we have available?
Habebe Member	Sat Nov 19 15:58:35 They only did studies in Ohio and Florida btw. http://www...vid19-death-rates-us-by-state/ Death rates by state. Kind of a mixed bag, FLA did pretty well considering how old the population is. CA did pretty well considering how many homeless they have. NY/NJ did bad. Missisipi did bad, but that's expected lots of unhealthy poor people.
Habebe Member	Sat Nov 19 16:22:57 The irony being that the GOP had massive wins in both OH and FLA.
kargen Member	Sat Nov 19 16:33:42 "Yes, its well known that car accidents suddenly shot up by hundreds of thousands of percent during a lethal pandemic and then subsided as the pandemic subsided and vaccines began to take effect." Deaths from car accidents actually did increase. Idiots were taking advantage of empty or near empty roads speeding and attempting to do stupid tricks.
	show deleted posts

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