Utopia Talk / Politics / Elon's Twitter

habebe Member	Tue Nov 22 12:14:53 Seb's lack of self awareness is astounding. He spouts all the same room predictions from far left media that now hates Musk. Compares this to one of his most hated politicians (the new more leftwing guy seems bad too) but its everyone else who is making this a team sport. My argument was 4-5 days was too early to say if Elon was doing well or bad. Even now, its only been what 2 weeks? Now there are two ways to measure that. 1. Financially/business wise. 2. Is it a better product. For business wise, some advertisers left, we lack numbers so who knows. Could be like CBS who left, but came back after a day and a half. He says he is suspending that until they have fixed the issue of impersonations, might be color coded. Expenses have been slashed, 80% of employees are gone, $400 million saved on free lunch. Active* daily users are up 1.6 million a day Kiddie pork eradication is now a goal kn the platform and has made huge strides. Reduced censorship. He plans to compete with YT/Tiktok All in All, I'm very impressed with his success in such a short time frame. Plus the liberal freakouts are a bonus. Id say business wise, still too early to tell, but on a good path by reducing waste and increasing users.He should IMO offer more tools to monetize followers and he had an earlier idea to allow you to censor what you see so libs dont have to see scary ideas. Product wise, Twitter is better than ever.
Seb Member	Tue Nov 22 12:38:07 Habebe: Oh here we go again - list with references the specific predictions I've made that are "left wing". "For business wise, some advertisers left, we lack numbers so who knows. Could be like CBS who left, but came back after a day and a half." Trump himself has said the revenue is way down, and Twitter debt is trading at a huge discount. So I'd say I've been correct about that: the way he handled the comms was an avoidable error. "He says he is suspending that until they have fixed the issue of impersonations, might be color coded." He rushed out a borked version of the verification product. It failed, resulting in much spam and disruption (as had been predicted) he had to walk it back. "Expenses have been slashed, 80% of employees are gone, $400 million saved on free lunch." 400 million on free lunch? Really? There are numerous regulatory legal actions inbound on his illegal sacking and redundancy schemes in Europe. We have yet to see it shake out. The site isn't run by employees pedaling some treadmill. Any negative consequences of staff reductions will be in DCMA lawsuites etc. or inability to manage incidents. I personally think he can get away with quite a lot of staff reductions, but the rushed way he did it has likely created large risks and liabilities. "Kiddie pork eradication is now a goal kn " It was always a goal. Strange to say otherwise.
Seb Member	Tue Nov 22 12:38:40 "to allow you to censor what you see so libs dont have to see scary ideas." This feature exists already. It's called "mute words".
Interesting facts Member	Tue Nov 22 12:53:52 http://nyp...-claims-meals-cost-13m-a-year/ Musk took to Twitter on Sunday to say that offering free meals at the company cafeteria had become unsustainable because “almost no one came to the office.” He estimated the free meals cost the company around $13 million a year. A Twitter employee who quit after Musk took over denied his claims hours later, saying the free meals cost the company no more than $25 per person per day.
habebe Member	Tue Nov 22 12:57:48 Seb, Im just saying look at all of the major complaints against new Twitter, they all come from hard left media like MSNBC, CBS, BBC etc. "Trump himself has said the revenue is way down, and Twitter debt is trading at a huge discount. So I'd say I've been correct about that: the way he handled the comms was an avoidable error." It seems Nimatzo was correct, TDS now applies to Elon and you had a Freudian slip....haha. Is it a bad thing longterm? IDK. Again, I think the old advertisement model was a failure that didn't make money anyway, not a big loss IMHO. "He rushed out a borked version of the verification product. It failed, resulting in much spam and disruption (as had been predicted) he had to walk it back." Is it better to fail more and faster or take years to come out with a product? This is very musk style and has shown to work at TESLA and Spacex. He prefers to do real world tests and aee what works, nix or fix what doesn't. Now they know what needs to be fixed and what worked. Sorry, 13 million, $400 per person per meal, my mistake. "There are numerous regulatory legal actions inbound on his illegal sacking and redundancy schemes in Europe." I don't see the relevance. Im sure every major US tech company has lawsuits coming from Europe. Europe has restrictive business practices. Im sure some org somewhere will say they dont and that they have a good measurable arbitrary numer of business freedom, but real-world results say that Europe has almost no major companies anymore and often very few small businesses even. "It was always a goal. Strange to say otherwise." Maybe, but it wasnt a major concern, Musk apparently has made it a top concern. I would think this reduces real liabilities, especially with GOP in charge of the house now. As for the feature, I dont know the details but my understanding is he was looking into levels, like 1 through 5. 5 would be for kids, 1 would be for your "free speech absolutist" who don't mind hate speech and such.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Tue Nov 22 13:08:07 "It seems Nimatzo was correct, TDS now applies to Elon and you had a Freudian slip....haha." I am not even kidding, at least 4 times I myself have written Trump in these threads then noticed it and correct it to Musk? I subconsciously thought we were talking about Trump! lol :)
murder Member	Tue Nov 22 13:35:09 "Kiddie pork eradication is now a goal kn the platform and has made huge strides." In all the years I spent on Twitter I ran into kiddie porn exactly zero times. I don't know wtf you're talking about.
habebe Member	Tue Nov 22 13:40:16 Murder, See the other thread.Ive never seen a murder, but I realize they happen.
murder Member	Tue Nov 22 13:47:24 No that's not how things work. And I've witnessed more than one.
murder Member	Tue Nov 22 14:17:42 Who does this remind you of? =============== As Elon Musk Cuts Costs at Twitter, Some Bills Are Going Unpaid Mr. Musk and his advisers are examining all types of expenses at Twitter. Some of the social media company’s vendors have gotten stiffed. SAN FRANCISCO — Before Elon Musk bought Twitter last month, the company’s executives had racked up hundreds of thousands of dollars in travel invoices that the social media service planned to pay. But once Mr. Musk took over the company, he refused to reimburse travel vendors for those bills, current and former Twitter employees said. Mr. Musk’s staff said the services were authorized by the company’s former management and not by him. His staff have since avoided the calls of the travel vendors, the people said. ... http://www...musk-twitter-cost-cutting.html
murder Member	Tue Nov 22 14:21:49 "Some of Twitter’s social projects have also started falling by the wayside. The company’s philanthropic division, Twitter for Good, has lost many employees and checks promised to some nonprofit groups have not been received, two people said." lol! Like father, like son.
habebe Member	Tue Nov 22 14:48:56 "No that's not how things work." It kind of is, plenty of things exist Ive never seen firsthand. As for the bills, that's a matter for the courts. If I buy a house, why would I pay for the the old owners utility debt?
murder Member	Tue Nov 22 14:52:06 "It kind of is, plenty of things exist Ive never seen firsthand." But other people do. "As for the bills, that's a matter for the courts. If I buy a house, why would I pay for the the old owners utility debt?" Company debt comes with the company unless you negotiate it out of the deal.
Seb Member	Tue Nov 22 14:53:16 Habebe: "Seb, Im just saying look at all of the major complaints against new Twitter, they all come from hard left media like MSNBC, CBS, BBC etc." You are deranged. Firstly, reporting on some obviously chaotic moves isn't "complaints". Secondly, branding everyone that reports on something in a way that you don't like doesn't make them hard left. "and you had a Freudian slip" Sorry, yes, but not in the way you think. Your attitude to Elon Musk is very similar to your attitude to Donald Trump. " I think the old advertisement model was a failure" Well, you are entitled to think that but you have very little basis for it. "Is it better to fail more and faster" Charging headlong into a venture that has no chance of success and obviously has not chance of success is not the same as rapid iterative experiments. This is *not* like SpaceX - SpaceX never attempted a launch where the engineers involved had said "this isn't going to work, this launch is going to fail in its stated mission". All the Blue launch proved, which they already knew would happen - not very many people would sign up for a blue tick, and that spammers would have a field day. "Im sure every major US tech company has lawsuits coming from Europe" Nah, they just follow the local employment laws and do the redundancies in a compliant manner rather than sending an email the night before saying "hey, you are fired". It doesn't take much longer and it costs a lot, lot less. It was just dumb, and the fact you can't see it was dumb is a symptom of the fact you've turned Musk from just this business guy we could talk about like Gates, or Buffet or whoever into a character in this grand political narrative to project your hopes, dreams and fears onto. To paraphrase Douglas Adams: Musk is just this guy ya know? "but real-world results say that Europe has almost no major companies anymore and often very few small businesses even." Europe has no major companies and few small businesses. Lol. Sure Habebe. "Maybe, but it wasnt a major concern" I mean that's just not even true.
habebe Member	Tue Nov 22 15:06:46 "Firstly, reporting on some obviously chaotic moves isn't "complaints". Secondly, branding everyone that reports on something in a way that you don't like doesn't make them hard left." These orgs have acted like Twitter was going to collapse because they fired some people. But not a word on Meta firing 11k, its targeted on Elon solely because the far left sees him as a threat, he is the new Trump. "Well, you are entitled to think that but you have very little basis for it." 12 out of 14 years the company didn't turn a profit. The only 2 years they did Trump had been using the platform while in office. After that they could not turn a profit nor did they grow users. Your argument is they grew revenue, but revenue isn't a good measure if it costs more than you bring in.You don't soend $100 to make $65. Its understandable the first few years, maube 3-5, not 14. "Nah, they just follow the local employment laws and do the redundancies in a compliant manner rather than sending an email the night before saying "hey, you are fired". It doesn't take much longer and it costs a lot, lot less." I find it hard to believe no other US tech companies have zero lawsuits in Europe. A quick googling shows new lawsuits in the UK for Meta, in Feb. They were sued in the EU and Ireland fined Meta $400 million over children's data. Your praying for this to fail, because the left has made him into new Trump. He made 20 different changes, this one failed for now. Yes, this is like Spacex. Now they know why it failed and it has increased usage, which while not directly monetized, long term can be. Your just salty the radical left doesn't control Twitter. What ever hapoened to "its a private company, they can do what they want"?
Seb Member	Tue Nov 22 15:34:28 habebe: Have acted? How has, for example, the BBC acted? I think you mean "have reported others who have questioned whether Twitter might collapse". ". But not a word on Meta firing 11k," 1. Do you just not read the papers? (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-63568585) 2. Facebook has announced it is intends to lay off 11,000 people, about 12.25% of its staff. Twitter sacked well over half of its staff in under a week, followed by a scramble to try and get some of them to return because they sacked the wrong people, a few notable major incidents (breaking 2FA for example) due to sacking the entirety of the team looking after key microservices, and the issue of pretty much all of the European staff laid off technically not being fired but illegally constructively dismissed and liable to get significantly large pay checks, on top of being able to draw salary and benefits until the court case is resolved. Do you genuinely not see the distinction here? One company is going about a conventional downsizing. Another one is firing more than half its staff in a week in a chaotic way that is compounding the costs to itself and incurring reputational damage and evident failure to retain key skills and knowledge in some areas. "12 out of 14 years the company didn't turn a profit." Well as you yourself have pointed out, perhaps they were spending too much on staff (which has nothing to do with the business model). Revenues were strong and growing, and the company was able to turn large profits in some years. So I would say there is little evidence that the business model was fundamentally wrong. On the other hand it seems doubtful that a subscription model will work as subscription rates and fees do not look like they will ever get high enough to cover the costs. "Trump had been using the platform while in office" And? That was actually a major problem for advertisers - it didn't bring more revenue. "but revenue isn't a good measure if it costs more than you bring in." I am beginning to think you do not know what a business model is. I don't know how much of twitters incomes was being re-invested in capital - we can probably find out if we care enough. And you yourself are arguing that the company was wasting far too much in staffing costs that it did not need to in order to operate the platform. So this is evidence of mismanagement, not a problem with the business model. Switching to a subscription model at the expense of ad revenue is a different kettle of fish. You get lower revenue - but do you really get any savings on costs? Are you saying it is going to - in principle - to be cheaper to run twitter as a subscription model than an ad model (I.e. that it is only by moving to a subscription model that it is viable for musk to cut staffing?) - I don't think that holds water. "I find it hard to believe no other US tech companies have zero lawsuits in Europe. A quick googling shows new lawsuits in the UK for Meta, in Feb. They were sued in the EU and Ireland fined Meta $400 million over children's data." We were talking about lawsuits for breach of employment law by trying to sack staff in a week rather than in an orderly process over a month or so though, so this seems to be a bit of a bait and switch Habebe. Meta's model is much more around "data services" though, and indeed there are costs around this model but it is fundamentally better than just vanilla advertising as you can capture much more of the value and monetise it in several ways. Twitter's plan was to try and boost its data services business, but fundamentally it needed to be careful to avoid getting as "snooping" as FB. "Your praying for this to fail, because the left has made him into new Trump." Again, no, it is you that are identifying with Musk as some kind of champion of your world view. I don't want twitter to fail particularly. And in the end I don't think it will - I think after some expensive thrashing around Musk will wind up having to bring back much of the features including content moderation in order to bring back the advertising. I don't think he can afford twitter cratering, and I don't think the subscription model will work out as a viable alternative to advertising revenue, so eventually he will have to return to the issue of providing brand security; letting content producers filter out the trolls and harassers; and providing some easy way for most users to identify people in positions they associate some trust / or other premium in as sources (verified individuals who are journalists on other platforms rather than randos that have paid a fee). He might well be better at running a tighter ship than the previous management. But I do not think it will be viable to change the business as fundamentally as he was proposing for those reasons. And you can say that is rabid left wing anti musk hating if you like - but I think we both know that comes across as swivel eyed lunacy.
habebe Member	Tue Nov 22 16:46:24 "Do you genuinely not see the distinction here?" I see two companies bloated with lazy workers and you finding the metric that suits your narrative. Yes it was reported, but which got way more airtime and in a far negative manner? The far left media is reporting this like it's the end of Twitter. If FOX brings on people who talk for 39 minutes about crime but its all black crime are they just "Bringing on people to talk about crime" come on, you have to see that these media outlets have strong biases and that Elon is the nrw Trump since he has up ended leftwing Twitter. "Again, no, it is you that are identifying with Musk as some kind of champion of your world view." Ok mr "Trump said, er I mean Elon"
habebe Member	Tue Nov 22 16:46:25 "Do you genuinely not see the distinction here?" I see two companies bloated with lazy workers and you finding the metric that suits your narrative. Yes it was reported, but which got way more airtime and in a far negative manner? The far left media is reporting this like it's the end of Twitter. If FOX brings on people who talk for 39 minutes about crime but its all black crime are they just "Bringing on people to talk about crime" come on, you have to see that these media outlets have strong biases and that Elon is the nrw Trump since he has up ended leftwing Twitter. "Again, no, it is you that are identifying with Musk as some kind of champion of your world view." Ok mr "Trump said, er I mean Elon"
McKobb Member	Tue Nov 22 19:58:29 canning all those peeps without notice before the holidays is some Scrooge level shit I wonder what space karen's ghost in the shell of christmas past, present, and future would look like?
habebe Member	Tue Nov 22 20:22:11 Canning them or offering them a choice of "hardcore work" or 3 months severance pay to do nothing? Considering median pay is 162k a yr, I'm sure they will survive.
McKobb Member	Tue Nov 22 21:00:49 TWTR share holders will have a good christmas due to musk's generosity :P
Seb Member	Wed Nov 23 06:43:11 Habebe: "see two companies bloated with lazy workers and you finding the metric that suits your narrative." So you don't acknowledge any distinction between how Twitter and Facebook have approached the issue? In your mind there is no difference between laying off 12% of your workers over a quarter and laying off over 50% in a week? I think it is you that is letting your preferred "narrative" blind you. There is no narrative from my perspective, we are dealing in the specifics of definite actions that two companies have undertaken. For you, this is a left/right political conversation and I know you are incapable of analysing that with any degree of distance of objectivity. So I'm going to let you do you.
habebe Member	Wed Nov 23 06:49:17 "So you don't acknowledge any distinction between how Twitter and Facebook have approached the issue? In your mind there is no difference between laying off 12% of your workers over a quarter and laying off over 50% in a week?" Twitter was very bloated. Thus was even admitted by Dorsey. Down the road could we see issues? We will see. So far twitter seems fine. "There is no narrative from my perspective" Sure.
Seb Member	Wed Nov 23 08:05:25 Habebe: "Twitter was very bloated." Why is it so hard for you to admit what everyone else sees - this was not the sensible way to tackle the bloat. We are not arguing that Twitter was bloated. We are arguing about how the layoffs were conducted. The inability to face up to this and to try and talk around the problem with canned talking points demonstrates that you are not capable of being honest with yourself, let alone anyone else.
habebe Member	Wed Nov 23 09:15:53 "Why is it so hard for you to admit what everyone else sees - this was not the sensible way to tackle the bloat." Everyone=The far left who wants this to fail because gasp* Henley Babylon bee and Trump on. I look at Twitter em p oyees and see a bunch of lazy marxist radicals who barely work, we have all seen the videos, why would a sane person want that to continue. Even the founder of the company said it was bloated. The same people who said this was too many people to fire also said RIP Twitter and likely would have called Carl Icahn crazy for firing 12 floors of people in one day, also, nothing bad happened when Carl did that, he saved alot of money.
habebe Member	Wed Nov 23 09:19:16 http://youtu.be/WSatPoD2W-o Why he fired 12 floors of people.
habebe Member	Wed Nov 23 09:27:18 http://youtu.be/qkQbHyLE6Tc Does this look like an essential employee? Fire the whole lot. Many were not even fired. They CHOSE to take a severance package. These are ppl who likely would sabotage Twitter if they did work, because "Elon Trump". You your self slipped up caling him Trump. He is the new obsession now that Trump isnt in yhe news so much. So between lazy Marxists and intentional sabotage, I see no reason to keep those employees. It actually serves both goals I set out in the OP. And to boot, they were unnecessary. Twitter still runs. Now you claim down the road may suffer, we will see. I think a smaller more "hardcore" work force with an unhealthy obsession to work is almost always going to beat out a large workforce that spends more time drinking lattes and meditating than working.
habebe Member	Wed Nov 23 09:34:07 Also that's not just me saying they were all commie as fuck. Undercover video has twitter employees calling thebold vibe " Commie as fuck"
habebe Member	Wed Nov 23 09:52:37 Btw for those bitching about TSLA share prices they jumped 5% and will go up more. For that matter the "Go woke go broke" over DIS and I'm telling you DIS is going up today too and both will likely continue for a day or so. Tis the nature of the market, people buy bargains.
habebe Member	Wed Nov 23 09:55:02 Now 6.4%
Seb Member	Wed Nov 23 10:08:36 habebe: "Everyone=The far left who wants this to fail because gasp* Henley Babylon bee and Trump on." No, you are simply labelling everyone who thinks this is a bit of a bonkers trussterfuck as "left wing" and assuming they want it to fail. This is you projecting your very strange view on the world onto this. "why would a sane person want that to continue." Again, you seem to be arguing with a fantasy case where I am saying "it was wrong to fire all those people" rather than "Wow, that was a botched downsizing that could have been done far more effectively and with less damage and less cost to the business if it had been done more conventionally." "he same people who said this was too many people to fire also said RIP Twitter" Really? Because I said this was too many people to fire in one go, but I didn't say this was RIP twitter, and you keep trying to pretend that I have so it fits your narrative. The 12 floors story is cute, probably grew a bit in the telling, but it is worth noting that in the story, he goes to Ops, talks to Ops, the Ops guys tell him to sack the admin, he doesn't believe the opps team, he hires consultants, and after a fairly lengthy process where nobody can tell him what these guys do, then he sacks 12 floors of administrators. Musk came in and sacked whole ops teams. So, it's not really like that Ichan story at all. Ichan's story is far more in line with the conventional way you would do a turnaround. I guess Ichan is a left wing communist too. "lazy marxist radicals" Indeed. Everything to you is about the forces of good honest right wing conservatives vs evil, lazy corrupt marxists. That's what I've said all along. "Twitter still runs." And the Marrie Celest still floated without a crew too. And we do know that a bunch of things went wrong for a few days, particularly on the content moderation, and it seems to have scared away a lot of revenue. It also caused the subscription plan to be first delayed, then to fail, then to be further delayed. Ho hum.
Seb Member	Wed Nov 23 10:09:13 The banks selling Twitter debt with a 60% discount, are they part of the marxist conspiracy too?
habebe Member	Wed Nov 23 11:02:02 No conspiracy. Twitter employees admitted they were "commie as fuck" and the lazy so3aks for itself. So your main gripe is that he fired too many people too rapidly? If your going to Fire them anyway, why not just rip off the bandage and be done with it? And again, most quit, not fired.They CHOSE tonquit because ofnthe ultimatum. Many of these people despised Musk and the idea that people like Trump should be brought back to Twitter. A house divided and all that, bad mojo. So lets clarify your primary gripe is that he let go and or let too many quit too quickly and that sometime down the road this will hurt the company?
Seb Member	Wed Nov 23 11:16:35 Habebe: All 8000 odd Twitter employees declared themselves "commie as fuck" did they? Can you provide a link for this? "So your main gripe is that he fired too many people too rapidly?" Gripe implies a level of emotional attachment well beyond the detachment I feel. My observation is that it was badly handled and unnecessarily so. " your going to Fire them anyway, why not just rip off the bandage and be done with it?" 1. Because where it amounts to unlawful constructive dismissal, a failure to follow the process ends up costing way way more. 2. Knowledge and skills transfer - rushing and then trying to hire back key staff you sacked risks loss of hard to replace skills or knowledge; or degradation of service, and even if you successfully re hire it will be at a much higher price as the staff now know that are critical. We have seen all of that by the way. And I've explained it a couple of times but you seem to have a hard time integrating it into your narrative of musky bigly genius Vs the Marxists saboteurs. 3. It looks unprofessional and scares your customers away and hinders hiring talent in future who think you might erratically fire them irrespective of performance as clearly there was no time to conduct a robust and evidence based rationalisation program in a week.
Seb Member	Wed Nov 23 11:17:32 Not sometime down the road. It had already demonstrably hurt the company.
habebe Member	Wed Nov 23 11:29:45 "All 8000 odd Twitter employees declared themselves "commie as fuck" did they? Can you provide a link for this?" No, I didn't say that. Some employees caught on undercover video said that. Clearly this was a common sentiment that millions of Americans viewed Twitter as radically left wing. So much so that Twitter felt the need to explain their actions on the Joe Rogan Experience regarding this. Its not great to alienate half the country. "1. Because where it amounts to unlawful constructive dismissal, a failure to follow the process ends up costing way way more." How much more has it cost? Ballpark. " It looks unprofessional and scares your customers away and hinders hiring talent in future who think you might erratically fire them irrespective of performance as clearly there was no time to conduct a robust and evidence" Scares away lazy employees. Attracts ambitious employees. We have already seen this happen. I mean. I'll tell you what in 6 months if Twitter collapses, you will likely be right. If not, your complaining over "proffesionalism".meh
habebe Member	Wed Nov 23 15:58:21 New poll out, 72% support offering general amnesty. Murder may be allowed back on Twitter.
murder Member	Wed Nov 23 16:00:29 I'll piss on its ashes first.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Thu Nov 24 01:02:17 Spam on crypto twitter has decreased *a lot* since Musk took over.
Hrothgar Member	Thu Nov 24 01:20:36 Doesn't matter if Musk's leadership is good for it or not - the world would be better without Twitter at all, and no matter who runs it, it's generally harmful to free speech cultures due to ability for targeted ad audiences abused by various obscured wealthy entities.
McKobb Member	Thu Nov 24 01:28:51 there will always be places for people to disseminate opinions. if it is paid for with ads then public opinion moderates it via the dollar vote, if it is subscription then it is moderated by bias of the platform. both are not 'free speech' in the purist of terms
Seb Member	Thu Nov 24 02:15:46 Habebe: "Some employees caught on undercover video said that." So, around 10% of those fired yeah? Or you wouldn't be raising it to characterise the redundancy program. It was 5% at least right? "How much more has it cost? Ballpark" Don't know, legal proceedings still gearing up. Remember, tyre are so legally employed meanwhile. So legal costs, enjoyment costs, then compensation. Statutory redundancy packages in the UK and Ireland are normally 2 weeks pay per year served, and 1 weeks notice per year employed - so that's the baseline. So I'd say several multiplies of whatever it would have cost just to follow local process. "Scares away lazy employees. Attracts ambitious employees. We have already seen this happen." No. Nobody who is good and effective wants to work in a place that does mass firings like this, as whether you stay or go is clearly based on either how well you know your divisional head or some bullshit metric like "lines coded" not your hard work or excellence. And really good people who get demands you do mandatory unpaid overtime, sleep in the office etc. can get better terms and conditions elsewhere. This kind of behaviour is what you expect if you are getting significant equity in a start-up; not a large company where a billionaire owns all the equity. You might get this sort of behaviour at spacex where there's no real competition and a compelling mission.
Seb Member	Thu Nov 24 04:25:46 Habebe: "Some employees caught on undercover video said that" How many? "Clearly this was a common sentiment" You say clearly - why do you think that? "Its not great to alienate half the country." You say half, is there any evidence of this? I would say the fact that advertisers find the stuff that Twitter has been moderating down toxic and a threat to their brands suggest to me no
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Thu Nov 24 04:30:49 This shit is going to get messy, all the skeletons are gonna fall out of the closet: “The more I learn, the worse it gets. The world should know the truth of what has been happening at Twitter. Transparency will earn the trust of the people.” @elonmusk “I heard from a primary source that political groups would regularly contact twitter to deboost their candidates’ detractors and twitter would happily do that. That seems to put the finger on the scale of democracy.” @PatrickWstanley “It is objectively the case that “conservative” political candidates were more negatively affected than “progressive” candidates. Anyone using Twitter knows this. Question is simply one of magnitude.” @elonmusk responding to above tweet
Seb Member	Thu Nov 24 09:57:01 It would be nice if he provided evidence, being in a position to do so. Meanwhile: http://twi...?t=COOm1JtztQWWOGyeqkPVsQ&s=19
murder Member	Thu Nov 24 11:42:44 "Scares away lazy employees. Attracts ambitious employees. We have already seen this happen." This is in a world where ambitious people aspire to work overtime for free???
murder Member	Thu Nov 24 11:45:35 "It would be nice if he provided evidence, being in a position to do so." You know things are going bad when we're getting a new narrative every day to deflect from how badly he's fucked up.
murder Member	Thu Nov 24 11:48:28 "Meanwhile:" Of course crypto spam bots are running wild. Elon is a crypto spam bot himself. But it's just a matter of time before he starts boosting Dogecoin spam and starts suppressing other shitcoins.
williamthebastard Member	Thu Nov 24 11:51:57 Meanwhile, basically every western country that has researched the matter has concluded that the far right posts more fake news etc. than all other political groups combined and have been a much bigger problem than all other political groups. Thus its likely a lot of them get banned. Nazism, white supremacy, revolutionary rhetoric still tends to get frowned on, at least for a few more years. Much like Trump has been given more legal chances than any normal person would ever dream of receiving, the US legal system is still reluctantly forced to pursue his crimes, because just like the far right on social media, they just go too far.
williamthebastard Member	Thu Nov 24 11:55:35 But this little musk fuck is quite the little cunt. I didnt know what a little cunt he was until I started reading up on his and Nimatzso emo astrology and numerology experts
williamthebastard Member	Thu Nov 24 12:08:30 Free speech but not free reach. We'll let everyone have a microphone, but we'll turn off the volume on the ones we dont like and turn up the volume on the ones we like. Thats free speech! Interesting to follow in real time how the Eliza Bleu campaign in Musks media the tesmanian and twitter, is slowly spreading into mainstream media, with the exact same sources and names popping up in Business Insider
murder Member	Thu Nov 24 12:23:24 " I didnt know what a little cunt he was until I started reading up on his and Nimatzso emo astrology and numerology experts" What?
Seb Member	Thu Nov 24 13:03:54 murder: "This is in a world where ambitious people aspire to work overtime for free???" People confuse ambitious people working in a start-up with equity that might be worth tens of millions or more if they bust a gut for 5 years to make it successful, with an idea that ambitious people generally will work crazy hours and sleep in the office indefinitely in a job that pays a high steady wage. It's about the remuneration package. If you want people that are willing to work 24/7 you need to be sure your pie is growing big enough to reward them for start-up like conditions with start-up like rewards. Otherwise it is better to go work in a start-up. Thing is though, twitter is a large, mature service and it isn't going to go shooting up 10,000% in value.
habebe Member	Thu Nov 24 13:38:28 Seb, Happy Thanksgiving you filthy savage. "So, around 10% of those fired yeah? Or you wouldn't be raising it to characterise the redundancy program. It was 5% at least right?" The comment wad towards the vibe of the workers. You also keep saying fired when many just quit when faced with actual work ad an option. That is not the same as quitting. "Don't know, legal proceedings still gearing up. Remember, tyre are so legally employed meanwhile. So legal costs, enjoyment costs, then compensation." So, we will see. Doesn't seem a big deal, every major social media company has lawsuits. Again, many decided to quit, hard to sue when you decide to quit. "You might get this sort of behaviour at spacex where there's no real competition and a compelling mission." SoaceX has no competition because of quality workers. Many decided to stay and even some "rockstar" coders have joined BECAUSE of this hard work mentality cutting out workers who barely worked 4 hours a day. Quality workers want this. Europeans are notorious for not liking yo2 work hard, and that's fine, it may lead to a happier more well adjusted life, but it's also the reason Europe is bot competitive in many industries and China and the US are. Billy the bastard lives in lala land. Ive never encountered a more brainwashed stooge. Unsurprising that he lives in a nation that still colonizes and lives off the backs of child slave labor. But "far right" are the boogeyman because is marxist news told him so. Still cant back up his claims and spouts whataboutisms.
Seb Member	Thu Nov 24 14:01:29 habebe: "The comment wad towards the vibe of the workers." Which workers? I think you know where I am going with this - that you can't really say anything meaningful about the disposition of any meaningful proportion of the workforce based on the videos. It would be better all around if you just admitted that. "You also keep saying fired when many just quit when faced with actual work ad an option. That is not the same as quitting." Actually that is not correct. Saying "accept these change of circumstances or you are deemed to have resigned" is what is called "constructive dismissal" and an unlawful form of termination of an employment contract. "Doesn't seem a big deal, every major social media company has lawsuits" Dude, I don't know how to say this - incurring an unavoidable law suite as a cost of doing business is not the same as incurring a lawsuit that will cost many times more than simply taking a slightly slower approach. "Quality workers want this." Yes, and any worker who doesn't want this clearly isn't a quality worker! QED. " it's also the reason Europe is bot competitive in many industries" Again this is something you think you know because you and other people who do not know very much about Europe keep telling yourselves this.
habebe Member	Thu Nov 24 15:07:55 I'll respond later, downed a bottle of wine+. But hey, the people have spoken again, general amnesty will happen in the coming days (Murder too) I'm liking this voting idea.
murder Member	Thu Nov 24 15:55:47 "People confuse ambitious people working in a start-up with equity that might be worth tens of millions or more if they bust a gut for 5 years to make it successful, with an idea that ambitious people generally will work crazy hours and sleep in the office indefinitely in a job that pays a high steady wage." Some of them have no choice since their visas are tied to their job, so he has some of them by the balls. http://www...loyees-on-visas-cant-just-quit Biden should grant them a waiver.
habebe Member	Thu Nov 24 18:22:42 George Hotz seems to have joined on yo fix the search features. Reportedly 50 software engineers from Tesla as well have joined various parts of Twitter. For me personally, t mostly seems the same. The big difference is a reduction in fake trading accounts posing as another and somewhat fewer crypto scam accounts, still get a gair amount of those though. But no mote fake accounts, thats a plus.
Habebe Member	Thu Nov 24 23:43:43 Seb "Which workers? I think you know where I am going with this - that you can't really say anything meaningful about the disposition of any meaningful proportion of the workforce based on the videos." Alone, no. But coupled with mounting evidence. By any normal person, the staff at Twitter comes off as far more leftwing than the US. Maybe this is more normal over in Europe which is also far left. The new owners seem to think they were far left, and more importantly Id argue about half of The US thinks so. Under cover video shows employees claiming the vibe is "Commie AF" Jack Dorsey, the FOUNDER and long time CEO has said "Twitter CEO Jack Dorsey: I ‘fully admit’ our bias is ‘more left-leaning’" His argument was that they worked hard to not act on their bias, but with many millions believing it otherwise, I don't think they did a good job at it. What makes you think Twitter was not full of far-Left employees? Again, they literally had a 3 HR conversation with Jack and Tim Pool and the Indian lawyer lady who banned a sitting president. Why? Because they were flooded with complaints that they were far ledt and bias. "Dude, I don't know how to say this - incurring an unavoidable law suite as a cost of doing business is not the same as incurring a lawsuit that will cost many times more than simply taking a slightly slower approach." What exactly is the complaint? That he should have waited 3 weeks? The inside vibe shift was major. Twitter is a front headline story everyday, I think that is largely by design If you have bad employees that are not needed, why wait? EU regulators have been threatening Elon since before he officially bought the company.They were bound to find something to bitch about. All Ive read is that they are appointing someone to look into it. No formal charges, it just seems like the Are pissy he either fired or pushed many left wingers who despised Elon anyway out the door. "Again this is something you think you know because you and other people who do not know very much about Europe keep telling yourselves this." Europe lags behind the world in hi-tech industries. Sure you make great butter and knives. http://www...-addressing-its-technology-gap Eurooes technology gap^ Take Elon again for an example in Spacex. The EU space agency had been planning to offer cheap space travel, they worked on it for years and still were years away from it being functional. They canned the project because SpaceX already functionally offers a better and cheaper service. Now instead of offering service they buy it from SpaceX.
Seb Member	Fri Nov 25 03:07:17 Habebe: "Alone, no. But coupled with mounting evidence" What mounting evidence? "By any normal person, the staff at Twitter comes off as far more leftwing than the US" Which staff? How are you assessing"the staff"? Do you think you are normal? How do you assess how "leftwing" the US is? Us right-wing media and commentary folk have been doing this since 9/11 "real Americans think...". You've got nothing than your own assertions here. You've decided the Twitter workforce is left wing based on a couple of videos, the fact you associate Elon as right wing, and Elon being in a kind of conflict with his workforce, ipso facto, the workforce must be left wing. It's the most insanely reductionist like of thinking I've seen. "The new owners seem to think they were far left" No, they seem to feel they were too expensive. "What makes you think Twitter was not full of far-Left employees?" Because it's deeply implausible, week with your argument that anyone who isn't maga is far left. "Because they were flooded with complaints that they were far ledt and bias." Trump got banned because he repeatedly violated their terms of service. Other people got banned for far less. You interpret this as being banned beside he was right wing, and thus that the ban must be about his politics rather than behaviour. "What exactly is the complaint? That he should have waited 3 weeks?" There is no complaint. You don't seem to be able to get out of this mindset that this is some kind of conflict. I'm observing that this was an expensive and objectively stupid way to run a corporate downsizing following an acquisition. Because that is what it is. It is not, as you seem to want to define it, some kind of political counter-purge. "If you have bad employees that are not needed, why wait?" Firstly, from the evidence, there wasn't any real assessment of who was good Vs bad. There was no time to perform it, and they ended up rehiring a bunch of people. If they didn't even know who had critical skills or knowledge (which is the very basic stuff you need to know) then having a nuanced view of their performance isn't likely or arguably possible. Secondly even if you decide everyone on a team running a microservice is crap, you don't fire them all at once unless you want the microservice to fall over. Which at least two did. Thirdly, the reason to wait is simple - you end up paying a hell of a lot more than if you fired them legally. So if the object is saving money by getting rid of unneeded or unwanted staff, much better to do things legally. If that isn't obvious... well. "EU regulators have been threatening Elon since before he officially bought the company.They were bound to find something to bitch about." Again, here you go trying to pretend everything in the world revolves around Elon. Yeah, social media companies come under a lot of regulatory scrutiny on data privacy, copyright and media regs. So why on earth start a fight with employment and tax regulators and, in botching your sackings and temporarily disabling your copyright and fraud processes, open yourself up to charges of negligence to regulators for those areas? Your basically asking to be fined. It's like going up to the cop and spitting in their face. Sure, maybe the cop was looking for an excuse to throw you in a cell. But offensively assaulting them and giving them a free rain to beat the shit out of your while arresting you on a slate of serious charges is objectively stupid. "The EU space agency had been planning to offer cheap space travel, they worked on it for years and still were years away from it being functional." Cf NASA. We talked around tech before, you are also taking a narrow view of tech here to mean social media cos. But it's beside the point.
Seb Member	Fri Nov 25 03:46:31 Anyway, the more you talk about this the more you are actually elaborating on my Elon Truss analogy. Truss comes in with an ideological view that what is wrong with the UK is that prior governments have somehow been against growth, that what delivers growth is massive unfunded tax cuts, and this went down like a lead balloon. In your telling, Elon comes in with a view that the problem with Twitter was that it had a workforce full of hard left wingers that were censoring the right. So he rushed to sack as many people as possible as part of a rabid culture shift for the organisation. Only the advertisers don't think that is the problem, they think that overall Twitter is a bit too lax at moderating toxic behaviour, and promptly fled. The other thing you need to consider is the user base of twitter. You keep talking about twitters workforce supposed hard left wing bias vs the US general population. But you actually need to look in terms of who is using twitter.
Seb Member	Fri Nov 25 05:46:01 *rapid culture shift
Habebe Member	Fri Nov 25 10:06:41 "In your telling, Elon comes in with a view that the problem with Twitter was that it had a workforce full of hard left wingers that were censoring the right." I'm saying that was the perception. More over these workers openly wete hostile to Elon. Hostile workers are dangerous, best to get rid of them before they sabotage. "What mounting evidence?" Its been posted. "You've got nothing than your own assertions here." Seb at peak retardation here. My own assertions are apparently that of everyone except Seb. Both the founder nd the new owner are both self proclaimed leftwing guys and have also both stated Twitter workers are left leaning. Under cover video has managers calling the vibe "Commie af" What evidence do you have that before Elon, that these workers are not verybledt wing by US standards? "Firstly, from the evidence, there wasn't any real assessment of who was good Vs bad. " That is a judgement call for the new owner. He apparently thought they were bad lazy employees. *And again, you keep missing this crucial point* Many QUIT, they were given a choice. 3 months severance or "Hardcore work" which was described as largely in person work with very long hours. To him, the lazy employees chose to leave. You keep saying they re hired "a bunch" of ppl. Who? This is your best evidence that it was done "too hastily" "Thirdly, the reason to wait is simple - you end up paying a hell of a lot more than if you fired them legally. So if the object is saving money by getting rid of unneeded or unwanted staff, much better to do things legally." We don't even know if any laws were broken.there is suspicion.This seems like moot point until we have some figures. But again, if staff were believed to despise Elon as many have admitted to, best to root them out early before they damage the company and cost ALOT of money. "Again, here you go trying to pretend everything in the world revolves around Elon. " The EU singled out Elon Musk publicly. I suppose its the EU/Reps that think the world revolves around Elon. "The other thing you need to consider is the user base of twitter. You keep talking about twitters workforce supposed hard left wing bias vs the US general population. But you actually need to look in terms of who is using twitter." The User base was also much more leftwing than the US at large.There is a fair amount of polling to back This up. Twitter had abysmal user engagement though compared to other SM companies. It's clout comes from it being used by journos/politicians and media figures. My suspicion is that centrist and RW ppl will flock more to Twitter now than before. Having a major SM platform without fear of politically based censorship will be a.big draw. Personally I see legacy media as very left wing dominated. But new Media is centrist/RW dominated. Joe Rogan gets more views per show than all CNN Primetime shows combined. Mabey MSNBC too. Even Tucker carlson only pulls in 3.5 M per show. Rogan dwarves that figure bringing in 13 million. And Tucker is by far the most watched legacy media show. Sure there are David Pakmans. But it is a much more diverse field and the big wigs are more centrist or RW.
Habebe Member	Fri Nov 25 10:41:50 Apparently he fired the entire staff at Twitter Brussels. Hahaha Well, at least he will win points with the US house of representatives who see Brussels as a greater threat than Beijing due to ESG/Klaus. I heard Bannon was working out of Brussels recently. He helped Sweden and Italy win elections.
murder Member	Fri Nov 25 12:58:40 "I heard Bannon was working out of Brussels recently." I'm surprised that he hasn't been picked up for being a nazi.
Habebe Member	Fri Nov 25 13:19:48 Nazis are all the rage in Europe again.Viva la Ukraine! Klaus Schwab is an alien communist. This sounds like a great movie.Nazis vs Commie aliens!
Habebe Member	Fri Nov 25 13:22:53 I'm completely serious about Bannon working in Europe. He calls it "the movement" Since I think 2019. I know him and Meloni were very closely working together.
Seb Member	Fri Nov 25 17:16:10 Habebe: "More over these workers" Which workers precisely? As a proportion of those laid off? You say I'm the one pedaling a narrative, but this is exactly what pedalling a narrative looks like.
Seb Member	Fri Nov 25 17:22:58 "Its been posted" No, you've posted about a couple of random videos of a handful of individuals. In what way is this "mounting"? " that of everyone" No, it's not everyone. Not remotely everyone. Hardly anyone I know cares, and of those that do, most I know agree with me. But then I have my bubble and you have yours. But I'm not remotely stupid enough to think that everyone agrees with me and try to use that as an argument. "Under cover video has managers calling the vibe "Commie af"" Which managers? How many? How credible are they? What do they consider commie? We know you consider pretty much anyone left of Atila the hun a commie. You claimed BLM was a Marxist movement and anyone associated was thus a Marxist, because fox showed you a quote of one woman involved early on saying she was a trained Marxist. There are undoubtedly trump supporters who are neo nazis. Does that mean you are a neo nazi? You know full well this is a fundamentally disingenuous line of argument. What worries me is you don't care. You will literally say anything to justify your opinions to yourself. You aren't even trying to pursuade others here, you are shoring up your own internal narrative for yourself. This is how cults work.
Habebe Member	Fri Nov 25 17:24:52 According to the NY Times 1k-1200 quit and "hundreds" more later. So maybe in the 2k range, mabey less. You keep saying he fired all these people at once with no figures or what crime he committed. I have read he fired everyone at the Brussels branch though. Only seen one story on that and I forget who. It was a European media outlet (not DW)
habebe Member	Fri Nov 25 22:08:44 "You claimed BLM was a Marxist movement and anyone associated was thus a Marxist, " Not many associated with it. But the leadership were self proclaimed Marxists and BLM was by the founders own words created based on Marxist ideas. But yes, it was common knowledge that FOX news/News Corp is right wing just as Twitter was left wing. Dorsey ooenly admitted it. The ONE manager was caught by oroject veritas undercover describing the vibe. Elon the new owner has said so as well. You are the only person denying this.
habebe Member	Fri Nov 25 22:15:43 lol "Stux" a moderator on Mastadon apparently has been complaining that no one uses the mute or block buttons and everyone just reports ppl they don't like. Who could have guessed....hahahaha
Seb Member	Sat Nov 26 05:15:44 Habebe: Yes, the thing is, not hitting "I accept" in the hardcore email counts as quitting under California employment law; but to ask the staff employed in Europe, it amounts to a constructive dismissal.
jergul large member	Sat Nov 26 06:41:39 habebe The whole neocon thing is created on Marxist ideas. The belief that class systems exist and that there is a global class struggle. The trick is to provok class conflict on terms where the upper class wins. Marxist theory is an analytical tool anyone can use to understand the world. Predicative theories about breaking the cycle of exploitive 19th bang-bust capitalism is the ideological bit. But marxism, just like capitalism, are most useful as tools, not ideologies.
jergul large member	Sat Nov 26 06:42:16 19th century*
habebe Member	Sat Nov 26 08:19:49 Well those well trained Marxists learned to accumulate quite a bit if capital.;) Seb, Im not sure Brussels got that option, AFAIK* they were just fired. I think the Ireland branch git more options. But Im also workong off memory from multiple stories so who knows.
williamthebastard Member	Sat Nov 26 11:06:05 you cant really trace neocon ideology to marxist ideology, you could perhaps trace modern american neocons to the disappointed conservative faction in the dem party or something. I find it hard to find many commonalities in the perspectives, though
williamthebastard Member	Sat Nov 26 11:07:18 "Many early neoconservative political figures were disillusioned Democratic politicians and intellectuals, such as ..."
williamthebastard Member	Sat Nov 26 11:12:46 the history of modern american neoconservatism seems to be a complete mess. But often, people actually mean neoliberalism which has much earlier roots, of course, and not at all in Marxism
williamthebastard Member	Sat Nov 26 11:15:53 I dont think neoconservatism hardly exists anymore. Cheney et al. The right is now basically neoliberalism (Nimatzo) and alt-right (Habebe)
habebe Member	Sat Nov 26 12:08:07 Alt-Right.....hahaha From a guy living in France who still has colonies they exploit in Africa. Literal modern day slavery holding nation.
Rugian Member	Sat Nov 26 13:05:37 Are there people that seriously still deny that BLM is a cultural Marxist ideology? That's common knowledge by now guys. Get your acts together.
obaminated Member	Sat Nov 26 13:26:08 Wtb is a parody of a French frog's take on American politics.
jergul large member	Sat Nov 26 13:41:20 Ruggy "Cultural Marxist" sounds made up. Marx was culturally upper class with all the normal piano lessons, concerts, theater and whatnot. WtB Alt-right did the nazi or fascist thing and pretty much eliminated class conciousness. US-Them follows different faultlines in that group. Class conciousness is the premise for Marxist theory to provide meaning. So your analysis is quite likely correct.
Seb Member	Sat Nov 26 13:41:21 https://twitter.com/pkedrosky/status/1596562550992162818?s=20&t=CxTAX8wclC0DxfUG41D6BQ Sounds like everything is going swimmingly: Big brands continue to keep their campaigns paused due to Musk's "ad hoc" approach to moderation. Advertisers unable to operate campaigns as bugs accumulate due to insufficient engineering support; unable to get feedback on campaign performance as twitter advertising sales and business support team has been axed. "aLl eXaCtLy aS pLan3d!" - Habebe
Seb Member	Sat Nov 26 13:44:04 Still sounds like a truss-terfuck to me: new boss comes in with an excessively ideological and incorrect diagnosis on the fundamental problem - enacts radical reform program without enough regard to building consensus with key stakeholders - the money throws up their hands in horror. The difference is that Elon does not have share holders that can throw him out; whereas Truss had MPs that could.
Seb Member	Sat Nov 26 13:44:36 In both cases the fundamental thing can keep going for a fair while with disastrous business model breaking policies.
williamthebastard Member	Sat Nov 26 13:52:04 ""Cultural Marxist" sounds made up." Its ridiculous Breivik/Gates of Vienna-speak. I tend to stop reading anything that includes idiot terms like that
williamthebastard Member	Sat Nov 26 15:19:05 http://en....ural_Marxism_conspiracy_theory The term "Cultural Marxism" refers to a far-right antisemitic conspiracy theory which claims that Western Marxism is the basis of continuing academic and intellectual efforts to subvert Western culture.[1][2][3] The conspiracy theory misrepresents the Frankfurt School as being responsible for modern progressive movements, identity politics, and political correctness, claiming there is an ongoing and intentional subversion of Western society via a planned culture war that undermines the Christian values of traditionalist conservatism and seeks to replace them with the culturally liberal values of the 1960s.[2][3][4] Although similarities with the Nazi propaganda term "Cultural Bolshevism" have been noted, the contemporary conspiracy theory originated in the United States during the 1990s
williamthebastard Member	Sat Nov 26 15:19:55 Originally found only on the far-right political fringe, the term began to enter mainstream discourse in the 2010s and is now found globally.[7] The conspiracy theory of a Marxist culture war is promoted by right-wing politicians, fundamentalist religious leaders, political commentators in mainstream print and television media, and white supremacist terrorists,[8] and has been described as "a foundational element of the alt-right worldview".[9]
Seb Member	Sat Nov 26 15:21:53 Oh god the cultural marxist bullshit again.
habebe Member	Sat Nov 26 15:24:09 Sebs still mad. So to clarify your positions 1. Twitter was not run by leftists. 2. That business wise he is destroying a company that couldn't make a profit for over 10 years. 3. That you are imagining bugs in Twitter that seems to run fine if not a little better for most everyone else. Did I miss any?
habebe Member	Sat Nov 26 15:26:18 It's hilarious when the same people demanding we fund and arm ACTUAL NAZIS attack people by calling them Nazis. Even Biden and Disney recently gave awards to ACTYAL NAZIS. But they covered up his tattoos for the camera. The irony is too rich.
williamthebastard Member	Sat Nov 26 15:28:02 Yeah, its one of the idiot alert keywords, like voter fraud, lizard people etc
Seb Member	Sat Nov 26 16:36:47 habebe: 1. You understand that the functionality for placing adds is not the same as the functionality you experience on the phone app or website right? 2. I'm not hallucinating it, I'm summarising the Financial Times who are reporting it having spoken to advertisers. I mean, I know, advertisers and the Financial Times are a well known hotbed of rabid Cultural Marxists intent on destroying capitalism and imposing the dictatorship of the proletariat. They are well known for their radical left wing woke views (they even print on pink paper, the fucking commies).
habebe Member	Sat Nov 26 21:30:41 "I'm not hallucinating it, I'm summarising the Financial Times who are reporting it having spoken to advertisers. " To pull a Seb, which advertisers? How many people said this? Don't drag me into this cultural marxist debate thing.
habebe Member	Sat Nov 26 23:13:22 Nimatzo, You may enjoy this, I did.lol http://twi...?t=unESMNkkVuOoI9cxpBWhwA&s=19
Seb Member	Sun Nov 27 03:32:16 Habebe: You should ask that question to the FT. The point about journalists though is that protect their sources. This is different from rando on the internet looking at a single video of a couple of people and making sweeping assertions about any much larger group you can associate with them as being members of.
habebe Member	Sun Nov 27 10:52:19 project veritas (under cover journalists) produced the film. not random people, employees at Twitter.
asdasdfasdfasdfasdfa Member	Sun Nov 27 11:50:42 "project veritas (under cover journalists)" project veritas (well know liars)
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