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Utopia Talk / Politics / Sorta shows Bidens character
obaminated
Member
Mon Nov 28 23:17:01
http://www...-wedlock-stocking-display.html

Not a criminal crime but it is pretty fucked up for grandparents to ignore the existence of a grandchild. Hunter is a shithead but they shouldn't judge the child for the sins of the father.
Cherub Cow
Member
Tue Nov 29 00:46:54
They also don't seem to include Natalie Biden's child. I wonder if it's because it would be weird to celebrate a child of statutory rape and incest?
habebe
Member
Tue Nov 29 01:24:57
I don't know, mabey people are looking too deep into shit.
murder
Member
Tue Nov 29 06:56:23

It's 2022 and they are still saying "out of wedlock" as if that was even a thing anymore.

Children are not born out of wedlock, they are simply born.

Rugian
Member
Tue Nov 29 07:09:47
Biden has no character. Hes a career politician who lies his ass off on anything and everything in order to get ahead. He also clearly values his career above his family, who are little more than talking point assets for him.

"Children are not born out of wedlock, they are simply born."

Incorrect. Ideally, children should always be born to a happily married man and woman overseeing a stable household.
murder
Member
Tue Nov 29 07:17:00

"Incorrect. Ideally, children should always be born to a happily married man and woman overseeing a stable household."

Incorrect. Child bearing was around long before men invented marriage. Reproduction is natural. Marriage is unnatural.

Rugian
Member
Tue Nov 29 07:24:58
Marriage is an institution that is more than 4,000 years old. Clearly its a deeply ingrained part of humanity. But sure, you and your fellow third wave feminists know something that the past 200 generations didn't. Okay.

You may as well next argue that wearing clothes is unnatural.

And thats not even touching the *fact* that children born and raised into stable households have much, much better prospects in life for stability and prosperity.

Turns out the nuclear family is a huge asset for child-rearing. Who knew? (Besides the previous 200 generations of course)
Dukhat
Member
Tue Nov 29 07:43:21
*yawn* retards looking to tabloids to circle jerk
murder
Member
Tue Nov 29 07:58:39

"Marriage is an institution that is more than 4,000 years old. Clearly its a deeply ingrained part of humanity. But sure, you and your fellow third wave feminists know something that the past 200 generations didn't. Okay."

And you and your fellow neanderthals know something that 10,000 generations before that didn't. Okay.

And yeah, people learn shit.


"You may as well next argue that wearing clothes is unnatural."

It is, but no one wants to see your mess.


"And thats not even touching the *fact* that children born and raised into stable households have much, much better prospects in life for stability and prosperity."

Assuming your definition of a stable household ... I'm not sure that's even true.

obaminated
Member
Tue Nov 29 10:11:32
How well do kids do coming from broken homes compared to kids coming from a nuclear family, murder? Id love to see you dispute clear and long established stats.
patom
Member
Tue Nov 29 11:09:47
What the fuck is up with you people? First, if Biden shows affection to his grandchildren or any children for that matter, you label him as a pervert.
Now you want to label him as an unfeeling old coot.
patom
Member
Tue Nov 29 11:14:40
obaminated, how well will Brady's kids do. How well did all of Trumps kids do? Well Baron's mom has yet to be kicked aside but it's probably coming.
Habebe
Member
Tue Nov 29 11:32:23
"It's 2022 and they are still saying "out of wedlock" as if that was even a thing anymore."

You forget that our potus was born in the year of our LORD....
Habebe
Member
Tue Nov 29 11:33:33
My sister is a bastard, I reminded her alot over the years.
obaminated
Member
Tue Nov 29 11:34:01
Leave it to patom to use outstanding outliers to try to establish them as an example of the average.
patom
Member
Tue Nov 29 14:20:37
obaminated, I personally know a bunch of people who came from broken families. Not a one of them are criminals or disgraceful or whatever the hell has your panties in a bunch.
obaminated
Member
Tue Nov 29 14:54:11
The dozens of people you know has zero impact on the undisputed fact that children from broken households by and large achieve far less financial and educational success than those from intact households.
patom
Member
Tue Nov 29 14:59:09
So, if you don't go to college and end up with a 6 or 7 figure income, does that make you a total failure in life?

I guess that explains your total adoration of the Trumps.
obaminated
Member
Tue Nov 29 15:08:57
I think living in poverty and being stuck as an assistant store manager at Walmart til you are 70 isn't something anyone should strive for.
nhill
Member
Tue Nov 29 15:12:31
People in unstable families are not a failure, they're not as successful as they would have been if they were supported by a stable nuclear family. None of this is controversial, and has been an established fact in developmental psychology for decades.
murder
Member
Tue Nov 29 15:13:57

"How well do kids do coming from broken homes compared to kids coming from a nuclear family, murder?"

I don't know. But there's no shortage of examples of garbage being raised in what you would define as a happy nuclear family.

Most of human history is filled with products of happy nuclear families getting their jollies from punching down at the weak and marginalized so ...

murder
Member
Tue Nov 29 15:17:31

"The dozens of people you know has zero impact on the undisputed fact that children from broken households by and large achieve far less financial and educational success than those from intact households."

I don't know that to be true either, but even if it is, financial and educational success is does not determine the value of a life.

nhill
Member
Tue Nov 29 15:24:16
This has already been settled a long time ago, not even controversial. Yes, people can be broken in stable nuclear homes. No, that doesn't mean stable nuclear homes are worse than being raised by two schizo trannies.
nhill
Member
Tue Nov 29 15:25:55
My 8-year-old is more intelligent than the old codgers patom and murder. Demonstrably. Murder isn't even old enough to use it as an excuse. patom gets a pass because his brain isn't what it used to be at that age. Sad.
nhill
Member
Tue Nov 29 15:27:55
http://sch...t.cgi?article=6948&context=etd

Here you guys go. It was written in your era (1953) so perhaps you can understand it better.
nhill
Member
Tue Nov 29 15:28:51
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5367186/?page=1
nhill
Member
Tue Nov 29 15:29:08
http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1300/J279v02n04_03
nhill
Member
Tue Nov 29 15:29:42
Here, this one was 1957, again it may be in a more familiar vernacular:

http://www.jstor.org/stable/347803
nhill
Member
Tue Nov 29 15:29:54
http://www...s/downloads/2010/10/bg1283.pdf
nhill
Member
Tue Nov 29 15:30:10
http://www.../article/pii/S1877042814052379
nhill
Member
Tue Nov 29 15:30:29
http://www...10.1080/00324728.1955.10415570
nhill
Member
Tue Nov 29 15:31:15
Let me know if you need any particular time period. This knowledge has been established since the 1950s.
murder
Member
Tue Nov 29 16:59:14

Nah, I disregard studies if they don't agree with my positions.

patom
Member
Tue Nov 29 17:23:07
nhill, Malta Montana, population 2000 in one of the most sparsely states in the USA? Really?

Having grown up during the 50's, I remember it as a whole other world compared to today. Most everyone attended church. Most everyone knew everyone in the neighborhood, if not the whole town. People were, for the most part, afraid to stand out from the crowd. If you were married, you stayed married. Divorced people were looked on as something wrong with them.
This is not to say that there were no divorces but now it doesn't even raise an eyebrow. My wife divorced 2 times before we met. It's common today.
patom
Member
Tue Nov 29 17:40:22
http://www...d-107.8742831?hl=en&authuser=0

Malta, Montana. A real crossroads of American Society. LMAO
obaminated
Member
Tue Nov 29 20:41:22
Patom is actually disputing that as a whole, children born into a nuclear family by far achieve more than children born into a single parent household. I really am not looking forward to be an old man who is incapable of understanding why he is wrong and won't even allow for the possibility that his position isn't supported by any evidence.
nhill
Member
Wed Nov 30 06:05:09
patom, that was a courtesy because you’re ancient. I linked many different time periods. Weird hill to die upon because you’re completely and obviously wrong to anyone with half a brain. You do you tho.
nhill
Member
Wed Nov 30 06:09:27
murder

I see why you have this misunderstanding, so I'll clear it up:

I disregard the studies on remote work because they have fundamental flaws in their measurement techniques. Not because they disagree with my knowledge. They were wrong. Seb agreed. You did not dispute.

That's how critical thought works bud.
patom
Member
Wed Nov 30 06:44:00
nhill, what is your measure of success? What does an individual have to accomplish in their lifetime for you to say they were a success?
nhill
Member
Wed Nov 30 06:59:04
Happiness, health, freedom, and personal satisfaction. In the case of an early death, at least the first, or on a path to get there. :)
murder
Member
Wed Nov 30 08:30:31

"I see why you have this misunderstanding, so I'll clear it up:"

Let me clear this up. I wasn't thinking what you think I was. I was simply making fun of the fact that I am doing what I make fun of right wing loons for doing. Disregarding experts and data.

This is a situation where I'm simply not going to disregard a lifetime of experience even if there are a stack of studies saying otherwise. Frankly I don't know how much they control for factors that have nothing to do with whether the parents stayed together ... and I don't give enough of a fuck to drill down and find out.

Life experience tells me that you are better off without some people in your life even if they are your parents. In some cases especially if they are your parents.

But yeah ... I was just making fun of myself.

Frankly I do it all the time. Studies showing kids being set back by not attending in school in person during the pandemic? I dismiss those out of hand.

Some right wingers would say that I swallow whatever the government puts out, but I'm actually pretty skeptical by nature and even more so due to experience.

nhill
Member
Wed Nov 30 08:33:31
Thanks for the clarification. You think broken homes produce better outcomes in adulthood than a stable nuclear family? Want to make sure we're on the same page here.
murder
Member
Wed Nov 30 08:40:14

"Murder isn't even old enough to use it as an excuse. patom gets a pass because his brain isn't what it used to be at that age. Sad."

I'd wager that patom is sharper than I am despite being roughly a quarter century older. I'm not too far off from bragging that I can recall person, woman, man, camera, tv.

murder
Member
Wed Nov 30 08:41:38

"Thanks for the clarification. You think broken homes produce better outcomes in adulthood than a stable nuclear family? Want to make sure we're on the same page here."

No, I'm just not sure that the opposite is true. It also depends in part what you mean by stable.

nhill
Member
Wed Nov 30 08:47:01
> It also depends in part what you mean by stable.

Easier to define the inverse. A non-stable nuclear family would be one where the parents keep things nuclear but either a) don't really care about the kids or b) only stay married because of the kids.

My attempt at defining stable is incomplete, but an initial stab would be:

Stable is a family where the parents are not just "staying together for the kids". One where they are a family unit and operate as leaders in good faith to rear the children into adulthood and beyond.
nhill
Member
Wed Nov 30 08:48:22
I would argue that a broken family that stays nuclear is worse than a broken family where the parents move on and live separate lives from each other, for example.
nhill
Member
Wed Nov 30 08:49:45
>I'd wager that patom is sharper than I am despite being roughly a quarter century older. I'm not too far off from bragging that I can recall person, woman, man, camera, tv.

Do you do novel stimulating things like visiting museums or acquainting yourself with a new area of the world? Gotta keep that mind sharp my man. I don't want you to turn into the Inverse Hot Rod :(
patom
Member
Wed Nov 30 10:30:46
I do cross words every day, read several novels a week, arguing with people on line and discussing stories in the local newspaper. So far I'm still not the sharpest bulb on the tree when it comes to the computer but thankfully I have Aspire sharing this house when I get stuck. I'm still learning new things and so far, to my knowledge, I haven't shown any many signs of dementia.
Since you are a 1/4 century or so younger than me, I'll assume that you are like many in your age group and don't have the sense of geography or ever really needed it to travel before the advent of GPS devices.
When you posted at study of family life in a remote town of less that 2000 people that is dated from 1953. It got my attention. I would think that studies that are supposed to represent a nation would come from more populous areas of the country with more exposure to the world in general.
In 53, I lived in a small town between Philadelphia and Trenton N.J. and on our street we still had people who were on a partyline telephone and not everyone had TV's. There were only 3 stations available.
With that knowledge, how representative would you think a study from society in Malta, Montana would be of this country?
nhill
Member
Wed Nov 30 11:19:21
I have had to travel without GPS a ton. Even without mapquest, I navigated with an atlas. I'm around 40 years old and grew up without money. Didn't get my first GPS until my 20s. Didn't get my first smart phone until 2013. You probably were using GPS before me.

>With that knowledge, how representative would you think a study from society in Malta, Montana would be of this country?

Where did you see me claim it is representative of anything? I linked 7 studies. The Malta one should be considered appropriately based on scope relative the the rest of the research.

I thought you might be more comfortable with the 1950s vernacular, so I included a study with a small sample size from that time. It was me being considerate.

Did you bother to look at the other 6, or are you just fixated on a trivial detail because it makes you uncomfortable?

No need to answer, it's rhetorical.
nhill
Member
Wed Nov 30 11:25:20
As for crosswords, that doesn't do too much. You need to seek completely novel experiences, like exploring a new city, or contemplating museum artifacts.
nhill
Member
Wed Nov 30 11:26:47
Reading novels is great, though. As long as they are novel novels :) and you aren't just rereading the same stuff.

Novelty is what stimulates the brain to create new neural connections. You want to create more neural connections than you are losing through natural degradation, and that will stave off dementia.
patom
Member
Wed Nov 30 12:34:39
I've grandchildren almost as old as you. As for driving around? I logged around 3 million miles driving truck and have worn out 4 cars. Never had a GPS, the last new car we bought, the salesman asked if I wanted it and I told him no. I already had a naggagater ;)
Habebe
Member
Wed Nov 30 12:49:23
Any way, Im going back to my orignal post.

I think people are looking too deep into budens stockings. Meh.

But now a whole real discussion has come up.
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