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Utopia Talk / Politics / Rubio's heart fee 3 sizes that day
Habebe
Member
Tue Nov 29 22:38:50
http://the...s-support-of-rail-workers/amp/

Nah, Ive never really had anything much against Rubio.

But THIS is what the GOP needs to do. These rail workers are getting a raw deal because of mergers that shouldn't have been allowednto begin with.

They are striking for the right to sick days for fucks sake!

“Just because Congress has the authority to impose a heavy-handed solution does not mean we should. It is wrong for the Biden Administration, which has failed to fight for workers, to ask Congress to impose a deal the workers themselves have rejected. I will not vote for any deal that does not have the support of the rail workers,” Rubio said in a statement.


This is a power Congress should only use in emergency situations.
murder
Member
Tue Nov 29 22:44:44

It'd be nice to believe that this is anything more than a cynical ploy to encourage a strike that will cripple the US economy as we head towards 2024 ... but Marco Rubio is a well known piece of crap, so I can't.

But a strike would be a national emergency, so Congress should amend the proposal the union rejected to include sick days and for the railroads to accept it or be nationalized.

murder
Member
Tue Nov 29 22:45:43
and force* the railroads
Habebe
Member
Tue Nov 29 23:13:47
Nationalized and broken up/sold.I don't think Id want the government running it forever.

I just want them to break up the merger that caused this.

But we both agree the sick pay shit is nutty. FYI they are literally asking for the sick pay they had pre.merger.
patom
Member
Wed Nov 30 10:47:43
Does anyone find it kind of disingenuous for a Republican to suddenly side with any trade union of any sort in this country in this century? Hell they've been doing their utmost to kill unions since Reagan's days in the White House. Especially any Republican south of the Mason Dixon Line.
Dukhat
Member
Wed Nov 30 11:06:55
Rubio trying so hard to be the next president still. Republicans are always the ones trying to virtue-signal, not dems who say exactly what they are for the most part.
murder
Member
Wed Nov 30 12:08:15

Rubio hasn't given up the dream, but he'll never shake the pro-amnesty label.

Habebe
Member
Wed Nov 30 12:46:48
Patom, Different time, different solutions. Rank and file union members have been trending GOP for years. Trump had support of many unions and was praised by auto workers and dairy industries for usmca.

Dukhat, You honestly believe Dems rarely virtue signal?
Habebe
Member
Wed Nov 30 12:47:38
FYI I probably most typed grew, I think maybe gree which my autocorrect turned to fee.
Y2A
Member
Wed Nov 30 19:35:14
Rubio just wants to cause chaos in the second half of Biden's 2nd term. no opinion on the actual rail strike yet.
habebe
Member
Wed Nov 30 20:02:22
Credit where it is due, the democrat progressives have a reasonable plan, but I don't like that its congress stepping in at all other than to reverse the merger.

I want them trust just and chew bubble gum, and due to a supply chain crisis we are currently all put of bubble gum.
Rugian
Member
Thu Dec 01 15:39:50
Here's my take on this:

Virtually none of the politicians or media pundits, on either side of the aisle, have any actual idea as to the specific existing leave conditions that railroad workers have, or what those conditions would look like following the passage of the proposed settlement.

The media reports and the government makes law, all based on anecdotes and partisan talking points. Not based on rational facts or knowledge.
Rugian
Member
Thu Dec 01 15:49:03
As far as I can tell, railroad workers are well paid. They can take extended sick leave and receive up to 70% pay for the duration. They also have vacation days, paid time off, and federal holidays. The "sick" days that they want in the negotiations could be taken for any reason, so they're essentially additional vacation days.

The points system also sucks. Being on call for 15 hours a day sucks. 5 sick days in a calendar quarter being a potential firing offense sucks. The Class 1 companies have shed workers over the years and don't treat the remaining ones particularly well.

Both sides have valid points here. Its impossible to get a cogent take on the issue from the media though.
Rugian
Member
Thu Dec 01 15:49:29
*16 hours, not 15
habebe
Member
Fri Dec 02 02:35:21
Trust Bust* not just.


Rugian, Yeah, they are paid.fairly well. From what I gather after the merger the company was to cut employees temporarily and just never re hired extra workers, reducing expenses. However the workers lost the PTO.

I like Rubio's approach over the progressives.

Congress should not be setting labor agreements and taking away people's god given right to strike unless its an absolute emergency.This is no yrue emergency, its been going on for years.

Let the union strike or the two sides reach an agreement without government meddling. There is no corporate interest to negotiate if Congress will force the workers hand.
patom
Member
Fri Dec 02 09:38:18
LMAO at you conservatives sticking up for Union workers.
Rugian
Member
Fri Dec 02 10:00:19
Habebe

I'm honestly curious about your stance here. How can you be for nationalization and wholesale reorganization of the railroads, yet feel that Congress has no business in imposing a labor agreement?

Myself, I would prefer to not suffer the massive economic pain a stroke would cause. Hundreds of thousands would be laid off in the first 30 days alone and GDP would meaningfully contract. The country relies on its rail.

Also which merger are you referring to? CP acquired KCS last year, but the points system has been making the rounds for a while at the other lines, including CSX (which has had points in place for years now) UP, BNSF, and NS.

habebe
Member
Fri Dec 02 11:21:20
Patom, For all the talk that ppl like Murder blame this on "free market Capitalism" this is the government forcing labor contracts, that's clearly socialism/Fascism.

Ironically the free market approach benefits the workers far more in this case.

Rugian, "I'm honestly curious about your stance here. How can you be for nationalization and wholesale reorganization of the railroads, yet feel that Congress has no business in imposing a labor agreement?"

I think enforcing anti-trust laws is a core function of government alongside border protections and military etc.

Setting up the rules of which thengame is played is very different from putting your thumb on the scale. This merger clearly has led to monopolistic abuses and the sector would fare better with competition IMHO.

On a personal level, how can we taken the right endowed by the creator of a man to strike without damn good cause? This is not a last minute emrgency situation, this negotiation has been going for YEARS. The railway doesnt want to negotiate because they know the feds can just force the workers hands, that is a government backed monopoly atleast in regards to employment.

"Myself, I would prefer to not suffer the massive economic pain a stroke would cause. Hundreds of thousands would be laid off in the first 30 days alone and GDP would meaningfully contract. The country relies on its rail."

This is understandable and pragmatic. But this can will nust get kicked down the road if neither side is willing to negotiate.

If your the railway, why negotiate if the feds can support your position not to? They have no incentive. This strike would be devastating for the railway company, they should seal for peace like a Ukrainian in October.

The workers fighting this for years KNOW this is an especially damaging time to strike, that is the point.

I understand emergency use, during covid some doctors/nurses couldn't strike for example.This is not that.

I mean, in general all of the mergers over the last decade or so should be looked into but they have not had an agreement for 3 years and the railway has cut 30% of workers for 6 years, which has lead to workers working 7 days a week.

This isnt all PTO. They have been asking for UNPAID leave as well.The railway cut workers and wants these guys to work 7bdays a week, that's nuts and in a regular deal that wouodnt happen, this is due to government over reach.
habebe
Member
Fri Dec 02 11:25:33
When I say 7 days a week, I shoukd clarify BNSF (Warren Buffets) gives 2 unpaid days off a month!
Rugian
Member
Fri Dec 02 11:46:36
"I understand emergency use, during covid some doctors/nurses couldn't strike for example.This is not that."

Agree to disagree. America's transportation network is of huge importance. I would rather not have the national economy driven into recession and >1 million people lose their jobs because of a railroad strike.

Reagan was right to fire the ATCs in the 80s, and Congress is right to impose a settlement on both the unions and the railroads now.
habebe
Member
Fri Dec 02 12:03:29
Rugian, "Agree to disagree. America's transportation network is of huge importance. I would rather not have the national economy driven into recession and >1 million people lose their jobs because of a railroad strike."

But this has been going on for over 3 years.

Yes, rail is of strategic importance. My issue is this is not some all of a sudden issue like covid was. This is a man made problem CAUSED by government and corporate rail perverting the system.

Reagan was a different era, where the power dynamics were different.Unions once held industry hostage, now monopolies do.

I think we should break up monopoly powers all over rails, big tech, retail, ISP, baby formula, farms etc.

Monopolies and oligopolies destroy competition and have been backed by government.

Remember when we had 10k ISPs? Back when aople and google couldn't hold software creators hostage?

America has a monopoly problem and it's backed by government.
habebe
Member
Fri Dec 02 12:19:43
To clarify my position

I support government having this authority.

But it should only be used for emergencies, that is different from what this is which is just government mandating labor deals.
patom
Member
Fri Dec 02 17:02:11
Congress has the ability to mandate minimum work crews for the operation of trains. They could cite safety rules. Much like they mandate working rules of Airline Pilots, CDL drivers etc. etc.

You also forget that Unionized Corrections Officers and Police have 'No Strike' clauses written into their contracts. It makes it very difficult to negotiate with governments who control the Prison and Jail budgets.
I know this because I was the Shop Steward for a year of my time working in the Jail. The county would never begin negotiation until they county budget was already passed. Then they would always cry that there wasn't enough money in the budget to give us any payraises.
Habebe
Member
Fri Dec 02 17:11:02
"You also forget that Unionized Corrections Officers and Police have 'No Strike' clauses written into their contracts. It makes it very difficult to negotiate with governments who control the Prison and Jail budgets."

Well, and herenis where I know Id disagree with Rugian. I would ban for profit jails if I could and aim to reduce the prison population drastically anyway.

As for safety,that may work. Not my style, first Id go back to what was working 10 years ago with increased competition, its not so easy to quit and go elsewhere.
patom
Member
Sat Dec 03 06:19:14
My post had nothing to do with for profit jails as there are none in Maine. When you try and negotiate with politicians to get a new or renew your labor contract, you are going to run up against the same story. "We can't ask the tax payers for this that or the other thing"
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