Utopia Talk / Politics / Murder is legal in California

Rugian Member	Fri Dec 02 09:00:14 A man accused of killing a California gas station clerk during a "botched" robbery will not face a murder charge because the victim had opened fire on the suspect despite his life not being in danger, officials said Thursday. James Williams, 36, was killed during an early Saturday morning gunfight with Ronald Jackson Jr., 20, at a Chevron in Antioch, Fox San Francisco reported. The Antioch Police Department said a gas station employee called to report a person had been shot at the Extra Mile mini-mart just after 2 a.m. When officers arrived, they found a man with a gunshot wound to the head inside the store. "Officers at the scene were able to determine that the victim was an employee-clerk at the service station and was held-up at gunpoint during what appears to be a 'botched robbery,'" a police statement said. Williams was working inside the store when he was confronted by two suspects, one of whom was identified as Jackson, who was allegedly armed with a gun. Williams then pulled out his own weapon. Jackson allegedly ran out of the store, while dropping cigar packages, and was shot. Williams kept firing as Jackson was on the ground before Jackson allegedly returned fire and killed him, the news report said. Jackson was not charged with murder because under the law, the killing could be considered self-defense, authorities said. The Contra Costa County District Attorney's Office said Williams pursued Jackson despite the threat of bodily harm or injury had subsided. "In the eyes of the law, Mr. Williams’ actions ceased to be self-defense when Mr. Williams pursued Mr. Jackson and the other suspect with a firearm — and continued to pursue Mr. Jackson after he shot him," Contra Costa County District Attorney Diana Becton said in a news release. "The legal distinction is clear: when your property and life are being threatened, an individual is legally justified in using deadly force in self-defense," she added. "However, once the threat of harm has dissipated, the victim of a property crime cannot then use deadly force to reclaim stolen property." Antioch investigators submitted their findings to the district attorney's office, which instead "elected to charge Jackson with robbery, possession of stolen property, and a firearm enhancement, but declined to charge him with murder," police said. http://www...-victim-didnt-act-self-defense
jergul large member	Fri Dec 02 09:08:50 Murder is by definition never legal.
Dukhat Member	Fri Dec 02 09:47:55 Wrong. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4CR8u-2TKb0&t=4s Ever since 1995, it's been legal.
Rugian Member	Fri Dec 02 10:01:11 Did dukhat actually make a funny? Lol well done sir.
Paramount Member	Fri Dec 02 10:15:04 ”the killing could be considered self-defense” Well it makes sense. If someone is shooting you, you have the right to shoot back in self defense. Also, buy more guns and carry on.
Rugian Member	Fri Dec 02 10:38:11 Threatening to kill someone during the commission of a felony removes all rights you have to self-defense. Or at least it does in a civilized area. Which CA is apparently not.
Rugian Member	Fri Dec 02 10:38:17 Threatening to kill someone during the commission of a felony removes all rights you have to self-defense. Or at least it does in a civilized area. Which CA is apparently not.
Rugian Member	Fri Dec 02 10:42:14 Oops I pulled a habebe
Paramount Member	Fri Dec 02 10:43:55 Judging by the photo from the article, the store clerk who died was black. I wonder of the robber, Jackson, is also black, or white.
Dukhat Member	Fri Dec 02 11:18:04 We desperately need to know because habebe and rugian won't give a shit if no white people were invovled.
habebe Member	Fri Dec 02 11:42:44 Why would Diktat think I only care about white people? I cant stand most white people since they are most likely marxists.My best friend is Haitian, I grew up around Saudis and for years hung out in Spanish Harlem. I want better ties with Mexico (probably need to purge the socialists though) and I want to limit immigrants from western Europe (because they are communists, at least a litmus test) My favorite politician of all time is Chilean FFS.
habebe Member	Fri Dec 02 11:43:25 Dukhat* my AC always goes to diktat.
Seb Member	Fri Dec 02 11:45:08 "Threatening to kill someone during the commission of a felony removes all rights you have to self-defense." For how long? I mean, can we then shoot that person three weeks later? If he's running away and posing no threat then using deadly force to recover stolen goods seems disproportionate. And shooting back is an act of self-defence.
Rugian Member	Fri Dec 02 11:49:50 "If he's running away and posing no threat then using deadly force to recover stolen goods seems disproportionate." Incorrect. Someone steals your stuff and threatens your life, you're entirely within your rights to end him. Instead, we now have a dead citizen who was trying to make an honest living, while this scumbag piece of shit is going to be back on the streets in a matter of years (at most). This is anti-Darwinism. We reward the barbarians and punish the good men of society.
Rugian Member	Fri Dec 02 11:53:04 Dukhat - Flip that equation around. How big would the media and popular outrage be if the robber was a white man, who robbed and killed a black store clerk and then escaped any sort of murder charge? The riots probably wouldn't be on the level of George Floyd, but safe to say we'd be having a very different conversation about this right now.
Rugian Member	Fri Dec 02 11:54:20 Oh, and let's remember that since this is California, the robbers would have gotten away scot-free had the store clerk just let them go. Because theft (up to $950) is basically decriminalized in that shithole of a state.
kargen Member	Fri Dec 02 12:20:31 "Or at least it does in a civilized area. Which CA is apparently not." Very few states allow a person to chase a would be evil doer and shoot them. Some states allow lethal actions in defense of self or private property. Once the suspect is running away that threat ends. I'm not sure how the law would apply if the bad guy still had an armload of your stuff as he ran. I'm guessing almost every state would say no you can't shoot them. Even if the states did allow shooting a retreating criminal it would be in the defense of self or personal property. The clerk was no longer being threatened and it wasn't his property being taken so law might not apply anyway.
Sam Adams Member	Fri Dec 02 12:26:29 How much time ellapsed between the initial crime and the shooting? The media isnt clear... it sounds pretty short but journalists are retards.
tumbleweed the wanderer	Fri Dec 02 13:32:20 from DA statement " The video evidence of the incident clearly shows Ronald Benjamin Jackson, III, and another suspect exiting the Chevron station convenience store after the robbery and running from the scene. Mr. Williams is also seen in the video footage leaving the Chevron station store with a firearm while running after the robbers. Mr. Williams then fired upon Mr. Jackson, hitting him in the leg while he was fleeing and causing him to fall to the ground. Mr. Williams continued to approach Mr. Jackson with his firearm pointing at him when Mr. Jackson fired shots at Williams hitting him twice. Once in the chest and in the leg. In the eyes of the law, Mr. Williams’ actions ceased to be self-defense when Mr. Williams pursued Mr. Jackson and the other suspect with a firearm — and continued to pursue Mr. Jackson after he shot him. The legal distinction is clear: when your property and life are being threatened, an individual is legally justified in using deadly force in self-defense. However, once the threat of harm has dissipated, the victim of a property crime cannot then use deadly force to reclaim stolen property " http://www...s-slaying-but-no-murder-charge
habebe Member	Fri Dec 02 13:51:32 "In the eyes of the law, Mr. Williams’ actions ceased to be self-defense when Mr. Williams pursued Mr. Jackson and the other suspect with a firearm — and continued to pursue Mr. Jackson after he shot him." I take it CA doesn't follow the Castle Doctrine?
tumbleweed the wanderer	Fri Dec 02 14:43:32 he followed him outside
Habebe Member	Fri Dec 02 14:53:53 That seems kosher in the South. I mean, he was in the act of armed robbery, maybe felony murder would be more appropriate law.
Sam Adams Member	Fri Dec 02 16:07:22 Ya this da is a fucking commie. Criminal used a gun in the commission of a serious felony. All rights lost. Should be executed.
Sam Adams Member	Fri Dec 02 16:10:56 In any sane world you should be able to chase a fleeing felon and shoot them. They are still in commission of said felony while actively fleeing, and are a clear and present threat to all neighbors.
Forwyn Member	Fri Dec 02 20:59:16 As SA said, armed fleeing felon is a threat to all in the vicinity unless he has clearly abandoned his weapon. This DA undoubtedly would have charged Rittenhouse.
tumbleweed the wanderer	Fri Dec 02 21:51:59 pretty sure kargen is right (oddly) & this would be the law in most States
Forwyn Member	Fri Dec 02 22:37:52 Even if the clerk overextended, to pretend the robber has a legal right to self-defense when the event was instigated by a fucking ARMED ROBBERY is retarded. Anyone who defends this is retarded. Fucking minimum wage worker gets gunned down because he reacted badly and the law protects someone who took a gun to a gas station to steal a hundred bucks from a register. lol. Fucking subhuman idiots
kargen Member	Sat Dec 03 16:43:08 The criminal is still going to be on the hook for attempted robbery with a weapon. If his gun was illegal he will get that charge also and maybe a few others. No murder charge because the clerk was giving chase. Was going to say will probably get close to max time for the other crimes but it is California so who knows.
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