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Utopia Talk / Politics / US wealth distribution chart
murder
Member
Tue Jan 24 23:58:44
This was from Sept of last year ...

==========================

Jeff Stein @JStein_WaPo

New CBO report: The poorest *half* of America -- ~150 million people -- hold only *2 percent* of the country's total wealth

Wealth of top 10 percent has grown markedly since 1989

That tiny little line at the bottom of this chart is half the country

http://pbs.twimg.com/media/FdwXe9dWYAAmb_1?format=jpg

============================


That chart is wild. Almost as wild as the majority of Americans allowing this to continue year after year.
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Wed Jan 25 06:21:58
What are doing about it, besides whining on an obscure forum and voting for a party that will ever only manage to pay lip service to some fantasy future where they are not beholden to the same monetary system, donors and owners?

Nothing.
Paramount
Member
Wed Jan 25 06:41:37
What do you suggest doing?
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Wed Jan 25 06:55:30
Divest out of the current financial and political paradigm. You already know what I have done to that end, I don’t vote and I implore others to stop voting and I have bet on crypto broadly as the seeds of a better financial paradigm.

But people like murder are too busy whinging and laughing at the convictions of others, to actually do anything, but whine and ridicule. The worthless class of people, waiting for others to solve everything for them.
Pillz
Member
Wed Jan 25 07:50:35
You just need to collect more welfare murder
jergul
large member
Wed Jan 25 09:00:11
Nimi
You still have a job and own a house together with your wife and the bank within the framework of a social democratic system with health and childcare, right?

What do you reckon you disinvestment percentage is? 2%? 3%? Something in that range?
Dukhat
Member
Wed Jan 25 09:08:27
I don't care about the bottom half of America having wealth, just opportunity.

The bottom half of America still lives better than most Europeans and most of the world in terms of income.

That they spend most of their money on payday loans and McDonald's is their choice and they are responsible for being poor.

It's always a bad argument to wage class warfare as the very poor are too stupid to do anything, even vote.

Gotta appeal to the middle class and talk about how much money people like Trump steal.


Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Wed Jan 25 11:23:21
Jergul
It is a bit more complicated than the superficial question you ask, there are two ways the paradigm can change, collapse of the current one or an orderly transition to the next one. I don’t know which path we will take.

Your question is invalid, but the summary is that I have done enough theorizing, practical stuff and the trend is such that I can say what I said with a straight face.
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Wed Jan 25 11:30:37
Besides, that is what *I* am doing, murder doesn’t have to be conviced of what I am, he isn’t in fact. Paramount asked me personally. The context here is that murder belongs to a group of people who believe the USA is a deeply racist shithole run by a kind of cleptocracy. Had I believed that about Sweden, I would be outside with molotov cocktails. You know had I been living in Iran, I would probably be in jail or dead.

The shit we do should match the shit we say, in that sense I don’t believe the situation in Sweden or the west broadly is as urgent or acute as in Iran or the horror story that people like murder narrate. So my actions match my words.
jergul
large member
Wed Jan 25 11:43:13
Fair enough.

Sam Adams
Member
Wed Jan 25 11:43:38
"The poorest *half* of America -- ~150 million people -- hold only *2 percent* of the country's total wealth"

Ok. This is normal and fine. Theres probably a fifth of the population that is in the college-early career-goof off stage and shouldnt have much wealth yet. Tack onto that the large number of retards... and 50% of people without wealth is reasonable. The growing gap between the ownership class(the top 1%) and the skilled working class(top 10-20%) is a bit concerning.
Rugian
Member
Wed Jan 25 12:34:01
65.5% of the population own their own home.

91.5% of households possess at least one vehicle.

85% of adults own a smartphone, a veritable magic device that enables access to calls, internet, GPS, email, and thousands of other apps.

93% of homes have at least one TV.

What these statistics don't point out is that technology has radically increased the buying power of Americans, even if their income/wealth doesn't rise.

100 years ago many families lived in shacks without utilities. The advancement of humanity has lifted all of us, wealthy and poor, up tremendously.
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Wed Jan 25 13:10:26
Think in terms of the political influence that someone like George Soros has compared to you. It’s not about iPads and airconditioning. You hopeless materalist bastard! Stop worshipping stuff!
Rugian
Member
Wed Jan 25 13:19:37
Well thats very communist of you.
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Wed Jan 25 14:10:38
The fact that you construed what I said (your lack of philosophical backbone worshipping stuff), to ”communism” the quintessential godless ideology basically the distributiom of material wealth (materialist), underscores my criticism of you as a hopeless materialist, worshipping stuff. Rightwing nihilist!
Rugian
Member
Wed Jan 25 14:45:38
Im at a loss on how to proceed here. What does jergul normally do at this stage in his conversions with you?

Oh right. "Get out of my continent, you darkie Iranian immigrant."
jergul
large member
Wed Jan 25 15:54:03
Reading is not your forte is it ruggy?

Truth is, dissent is important to social democracy, not matter how pissed off it might make me.

I called him ungrateful, not that he should go somewhere he has never lived.
Rugian
Member
Wed Jan 25 16:05:28
Jergul

I see. So he shouldn't be forced to leave, rather he should simply realize that Scandinavian democracies are perfect just as they are and he is an idiot for having any opinions to the contrary.

Also, rofl at the idea that your country tolerates dissent. You tolerate a few views that fall within your established political orthodoxy and criminalize everything else as hate speech.
jergul
large member
Wed Jan 25 16:13:32
Either that, or I could just be pissed off if I mobilize enough enthusiasm to care.

Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Wed Jan 25 18:13:05
Rugian
You have played both your Cards/brain cells, the same ones you play every time:

1. Shut up communist
2. Go back home darkie

Obviously not a huge sport to have you at a loss, the intellectual drift wood that you are, but at this point you say good game move on and rub Vaseline where it hurts.
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Wed Jan 25 18:17:43
Every older generation thinks the younger generation is ungrateful because they want to change the old stuff. This is perfectly normal.

Me and Jergul see eye to eye, dissent is very important, no matter how pissed off it makes you.
Rugian
Member
Wed Jan 25 18:30:37
I like how you think you've proven something when you mostly just utter nonsense.

Look, you went a little crazy during Covid and I called you out on it. It happens. Most of us would have licked our wounds and moved on by now. But you, it hurts you that in your despair you contemplated turning to the PRC and abolishing Western liberal values.

You can posture all you want that you're a free-thinking individual who forges his own destiny. But at the end of the day, you turned into a sheep for fear of the coof.
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Wed Jan 25 18:37:28
"Crazy during Covid"

What are other occasions where Rugian played his two brain cells strategy?

I love jeopardy :)

Rugian
Member
Wed Jan 25 19:03:02
Nim:

Crypto, obscure studies, and contrarianism.

I believe that covers the sum total of your intellectual pursuits.
Rugian
Member
Wed Jan 25 19:06:30
Also I don't think I've ever seriously criticized you for being an Iranian Swede.

You tried to dumb me down to two things and you got one of them completely wrong.
TheChildren
Member
Thu Jan 26 03:13:45
how does it feel 2 know it shithole?
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Thu Jan 26 05:21:17
Jergul
The tragedy, the ungratefulness as you put it, was/is me being extremly concearned about the high handed ways in which the social democractic party (in sweden specifically) stiffles dissent. If you go back or remember details the main thrust of my attacks have been on, Public service and the education system, centralized domains with strong influence on social agenda and the shaping of discourse. And not generic stuff, but specific issues like immigration, equality and more recently envirofascism. Two of those issues have unravaled now, question was always how much damage will be done. Damage that could be avoided if we can hash things out openly and honestly without getting mobbed, tared and feathered.

I don’t know id you see the so subtle difference between Norway and Sweden in this regard, there is a reason moving to Norway is seriously on the table. I have also tried explaining them in the past, mostly for you, both on the gender science issue and immigration there are massive difference in how Swedish and Norwegian society and media have dealt with them.

I am glad that we agree dissent is important, and I hope it is clear that my concearns have always been (still is) about that capacity for dissent, not our social insurances.
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Thu Jan 26 05:57:21
Rugian
You just did it in this thread, you then tell me you are not serious when you do this and then tell me I have gotten you *compleatly* wrong? This is the problem I have with people like you Rugian, you say shit, when you get push back you say dumb shit and when I get down and dirty, you try to slip away like a snake, “oh I was not being serious”.

Sorry, but you are only confirming the spineless intellectual drift wood comment. I will say it here explicitly, I touched on this in the Crowder thread: there is a direct relationship between your total break down in priorities andthe disarray in the Republican party and the degradation of conservatism and rightwing politics in the west broadly. You got an iPad stop complaining! Totally missed the boat about our time and place in history.
Rugian
Member
Thu Jan 26 06:27:19
Did anyone else read my jergul post as anything other than a joke? I'm honestly curious.
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Thu Jan 26 07:17:27
Rugian
The fantastic thing about what I said is that it doesn’t matter if you were serious or not. GG and vasaline is the next step.
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Thu Jan 26 07:30:40
I just told you that when I then get down to your level (serious or not) you fall back on the joke thing.

Ok go back and be serious. Water under the bridge.

The problems of wealth inequality is the asymmetry in social and political influence, not the reduction of absolute poverty. The fact that someone Elon Musk or George Soros are exceptionally good at capital allocation doesn’t mean that they are better than you and me or anyone at anything else, like how to run a society or the long term interest of civilization. They could be, but often they are not, they are simply motivated by the same biases and ideological convictions as everyone else.
Rugian
Member
Thu Jan 26 07:41:53
You didn't come down to my level. We (or at least I thought we) were largely nothing around up to that point. But no, apparently you were being dead ass serious when you were going on about "stop worshipping stuff, you hopeless materialist bastard."

In any case, power in any modern-day society is concentrated in one of three groups, either titans of business, government politicians and bureaucrats, and military and intelligence chiefs. "Progressive" wealth redistribution schemes merely have the effect of transferring power from the first to the second group, often not to the benefit of society at large. I see no reason why we should be robbing Elon Musk (who, whatever his fault, is at least attempting to innovate the world) to pay Joe Biden (who is nothing but a demented wannabe authoritarian shitstain).

But maybe stop taking whatever drug of the week you're currently consuming, get some fresh air and slow down. Not everything is meant to be a bodyslam against you.
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Thu Jan 26 08:08:35
See what happened Rugian? I gave you a second chance, water under the bridge, and you chose to ”not be serious”. You are borrowing another Jergul joke/insult about drugs. Even as an intellectual driftwood, what kind of respectful American conservative take his entire playbook from a scandinavian socialist?

And whatever you just wrote there, what I hear is that you are trapped in a political zero sum dichotomy. I just don’t understand how one can think one is free living like that, not how we are for ed to live in the system, by to be mentally chained and unable to imagine anything beyond it.
Rugian
Member
Thu Jan 26 09:14:11
Lol you are such a dick. You're throwing cheap shots at me at the same time you're declaring water under the bridge, yet I'm the one who declined your gracious and benevolent offer of a truce?

As for jergul, me and him both have a lot in common. We're both xenophobes, we're both nationalists (even if he's been trained from birth to believe that nationalism is a dirty four-letter word, he still is one at heart), and we both believe that our respective cultures are the most superior on the planet Earth.

He just happens to be a communist Sovietphile and member of an international death cult that believes that humanity reached its Malthusian limits in the year 6 AD. But in terms of our love for country, we're very alike.

And yes, politics is a zero-sum game. There is no moderation, no compromises to he had. If you ever give concessions to the other side, they merely view that as a window for demanding more concessions. That's how politics works now.
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Thu Jan 26 09:31:21
Tell me where did I cheap shot you after saying water under the bridge? I went on to reiterate in greater detail what I said earlier.

Pathetic.


Pillz
Member
Thu Jan 26 09:56:06
ITT

Nimatzo puts on a live, improvised preformce depicting the virulent illness affecting the internet and that killed Utopia (the game) : low IQ tough guys trying to argue with trolls several entire strata above themselves

Nimatzo isn't to blame though, he's just so use to be delusionally retarded, deadpan, asininely presistant style of none-discussion employed by jergul and Seb and wtb. It has obviously desensitized him to normal interaction online (ie: pre 2012).

Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Thu Jan 26 10:06:24
Pillz
I have you down as someone who actually leaves "edgy" comments on snuff videos. At least you writing style is that of a chat bot that was trained with snuff video comments.
Pillz
Member
Thu Jan 26 10:15:46
That'd be because you're about as animated a human being as hot rod is these days.
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Thu Jan 26 10:31:37
I'm sure that is funny and on the point in your crypto-fascist book club.

Now go back to suppressing the joy you feel watching dead soldiers, so you can put on a big grin while holding morning pep talks for the grocery baggers you have to "manage".
Pillz
Member
Thu Jan 26 10:56:51
I'm calling you a husk. You're a ridged, shallow minded, lives-life-with-blinders kind of retard.

Youre the type of dumbass who'd spend a week falling for every piece of bait I drop and never even realize it.

In the grand scheme of things you're maybe a 4. Articulate and wordy, but lacking substance, style, or the wits to realize what is going on at any point in a conversation. I can't be fucked.

Also who needs to hold morning pep talks? Your personality and passing interactions with your team should keep them happy and motivated enough. If you have to make a show of it you're not meant to be leading people. Is being the real life equivalent of an extra as dreary as it sounds?

Unfortunately Nim I don't watch snuff porn or binge warzone footage, but I assure you I don't suppress my joy at western failures and the resultant loss of life, even in public.

Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Thu Jan 26 12:50:53
“Youre the type of dumbass who'd spend a week falling for every piece of bait I drop and never even realize it.”

Big words from a big head, but considering this is the longest interaction I have had with you in ages, delusional doesn’t even begin to describe the salad of generic insults you strung together.
Pillz
Member
Thu Jan 26 14:49:35
So many possibilities and you go with this:

"but considering this is the longest interaction I have had with you in ages, delusional doesn’t even begin to describe"

I made it clear in my first post here that I was making an observation. From above you. I don't need to step on bugs to know I can.

You started this argument out of an imagined slight by Rugian, who was making an obvious joke. From there you began treating him like Seb or jergul, for no observable reason. And rugian used kiddy gloves the whole way through.

That is what happened in this thread. I thought it was funny to see it play out.

I don't intend to start a 4 year forum wide 10,000 post long love affair with you, so sit the fuck back down.
murder
Member
Fri Jan 27 21:25:02

I post this, I come back days later to find that Nimatzo is ranting about crypto. Jesus fucking Christ!

As if crypto scams were any less dominated by the wealthy.

murder
Member
Fri Jan 27 21:28:36

"That they spend most of their money on payday loans and McDonald's is their choice and they are responsible for being poor."

Right. The poor don't take out payday loans out of desperation, they simply think it's fun to pay predatory rates.

murder
Member
Fri Jan 27 21:33:38

"The context here is that murder belongs to a group of people who believe the USA is a deeply racist shithole run by a kind of cleptocracy. Had I believed that about Sweden, I would be outside with molotov cocktails."

Making shit worse is not going to improve matters.

Revolutions rarely end well, and you have absolutely no say over what comes next.

murder
Member
Fri Jan 27 21:36:25

"Ok. This is normal and fine. Theres probably a fifth of the population that is in the college-early career-goof off stage and shouldnt have much wealth yet. Tack onto that the large number of retards... and 50% of people without wealth is reasonable. The growing gap between the ownership class(the top 1%) and the skilled working class(top 10-20%) is a bit concerning."

Sam: The chart indicates that they are actually talking about families, not individuals.

murder
Member
Fri Jan 27 21:44:25

"how does it feel 2 know it shithole?"

TC: Per capita income in China is ~ the poverty level in the US. :o)

Habebe
Member
Sat Jan 28 12:02:26
"It's always a bad argument to wage class warfare as the very poor are too stupid to do anything, even vote."

History says otherwise. When the wealth gap is too far out of whack,tensions rise, then when recessions and depressions hit the shit can hit the fan very quickly.


Even opportunity is often diminished often via politics and the systems in place.

Look at Immigration, too many illegals working for peanuts drives down unprotected trades.

They say Americans don't want those jobs, that's not true, they just don't want them at the artificial deflated rates.
habebe
Member
Sun Jan 29 15:45:52
we need to lean on the rich euro countries more for loot, or find other ways to squeeze them for it.

Germany, home of my ancestors, is the worst ally we have ever had, we let them screw us.

I seen an old DW post one time where they were saying how Germany paid MILLIONS of dollars to the US for our troops to be there, millions....over 7 years.

Mind you we have more troops there than anywhere in the world.They earn more off the income generated nearby the facility than they pay probably. All so they can not meet their domestic spending goals on military and protest power plants one god damn hippies, well the hippies should get a fucking job and pay their bills.

Atleast Trump knew how to deal with people not paying their bills, that's his fucking super power.
murder
Member
Sun Jan 29 19:25:01

Trump's superpower was whining like a bitch about everything and then not doing a damn thing about anything.

Habebe
Member
Sun Jan 29 22:24:22
His super power is definitely not paying for shit.
jergul
large member
Mon Jan 30 06:17:35
Habebe
Completely normal. Its the US superpower. Just roll on the digits onto your debt. Never to repay and if the interest (auction price technically) becomes uncomfortable, just have the Federal Reserve bid on debt issues to undercut auction prices (nobody is going to get 103 dollars paid on a 100 dollar face issue if the Reserve is buying them at 101 dollars).
murder
Member
Mon Jan 30 11:55:21

"His super power is definitely not paying for shit."

He paid for his stupid partial fence. Although it was with the national credit card.

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