Utopia Talk / Politics / bomb iran

Sam Adams Member	Fri Jan 27 10:55:53 http://www...sination-attempt-us-citizen-ny Iran's dictators paid some criminals to try to kidnap a person from US soil. Enough of this shit. Clearly an act of war, amongst many others, that justifies our armed intervention on the side of irans freeom fighters.
murder Member	Fri Jan 27 11:01:46 I'm confused. You want to bomb Iran for helping ICE keep foreign nationals out of the US? Who are you and what did you do with the real Sam Adams?
Habebe Member	Fri Jan 27 11:35:02 Uh, Im probably the most anti Iranian regime guy on the board. But we don't need another forever war. That's just what Iran would want, that draws closer ties to Russia and gives the regime a bad guy to point the finger at. Want to hurt the regime? Make it so they can't block the internet and have Iranian influencers do the work.
obaminated Member	Fri Jan 27 12:17:33 I think it's safe to assume that this shit just got personal for SA and he wants to take the gloves off.
obaminated Member	Fri Jan 27 12:17:35 I think it's safe to assume that this shit just got personal for SA and he wants to take the gloves off.
Sam Adams Member	Fri Jan 27 12:43:41 Bomb the regime heads and the guards. Let the protesters do the rest.
murder Member	Fri Jan 27 16:33:04 "Want to hurt the regime? Make it so they can't block the internet and have Iranian influencers do the work." That's not really possible. We can sneak some communications equipment into Iran, but 99.99% of Iranians would still have no access if the government chooses to cut them off.
murder Member	Fri Jan 27 16:35:25 And yeah, you can't let foreign powers get away with trying to kill/kidnap people. If you do pretty soon everyone will be trying to get away with it.
Pillz Member	Fri Jan 27 22:21:04 Reminder that the CIA considers Hezbollah to be the world's largest criminal syndicate
Dukhat Member	Fri Jan 27 23:34:42 We should've been supporting the protesters by clandestine actions to kill key Iranian leaders. Unfortunately the price of oil is still a problem for the administration so it looks like the protests have been/will be squashed.
Dukhat Member	Fri Jan 27 23:34:52 With nary a word from us.
murder Member	Fri Jan 27 23:47:06 Words from us are not helpful.
Dukhat Member	Sat Jan 28 00:00:52 No, but missile strikes are. Alas, if only Biden were the evil interventionists that Republicans claim he is.
Allahuakbar Member	Sun Jan 29 03:22:43 You failed! http://www...-aerial-vehicle-attack-Isfahan The Iranian Defense Ministry says its air defense units have repelled a drone attack on a military workshop in the central city of Isfahan. The ministry made the announcement in an early Sunday statement, after an explosion was reported at one of Isfahan’s defense industry complexes late Saturday. The ministry said one of its workshop complexes had come under attack from a number of Micro Aerial Vehicles (MAVs), but the complex’s air defenses successfully repelled the attack. “One of the MAVs was downed by the complex’s air defense fire, while the other two were caught in its defensive traps and exploded,” the statement added. The ministry noted that the unsuccessful attack did not cause any loss of life and only led to minor damage to the roof of a workshop. The complex, it added, continues its ordinary operations following the attack. The ministry then assured the Iranian nation that such blind attacks will have no effect on the country’s overall march toward progress.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Sun Jan 29 07:59:39 While I agree with the general sentiment, this act of war stuff is meaningless. The USA killed an Iranian official on official Iranian business in Iraq. International law and procedure has degraded quite a bit.
Habebe Member	Sun Jan 29 09:47:00 "Bomb the regime heads and the guards. Let the protesters do the rest." That's more reasonable.We can work out the details though. Nimatzo, Your under the assumption they ever really existed. Personally Im not a fan of international laws much, the idea of being told what we can and can't do by in elected foreigners just doesn't sit well with me anyway.Not that the real system is great either. As it stands now overwhelming might makes right as well as your favoritism and usefullness to said authority.Rules have always been a guideline at best. Now some things can be so horrific that they should elicit a near universal disgust, but even then if you have enough might/leverage rules don't apply and they never have until you lose.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Sun Jan 29 10:40:24 There is no overwhelming might habebe. Even for the worlds superpower things have costs and risks. Starting a war in Iran will cost a lot and tie up US resources and make the US vulnerable elsewhere.
Dukhat Member	Sun Jan 29 10:56:31 Don't need to start a war in Iran. There's already one there ready to go. Arm the resistance, surgical strikes on the Iranian leadership and go from there. It's a better strategy then letting the religious nutters brutally suppress the protests like they're currently doing and eventually get a nuclear weapon.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Sun Jan 29 12:19:46 Ok if you say so.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Sun Jan 29 12:27:45 The entire Iranian strategy is at any rate founded on that premise, war with Iran isn’t worth it. Iran is much larger, has a larger population, difficult terrain than any country the USA has picked a fight with in recent time. There is no resistance that can form that will not be crushed by Iranian air mobile infantry. Iran isn’t Iraq or Syria, which are indefensible and flat. It’s a worse version of Afghanistan, but with a government far better equipped and armed. Nobody wants an insurrection more than me, but it just isn’t happening. Iranian regime must rot from the inside, most of us are waiting to see what happens after Khamenie dies.
murder Member	Sun Jan 29 16:18:02 "It’s a worse version of Afghanistan, but with a government far better equipped and armed." Better equipped and armed isn't a problem. We don't have any problems with concentrated units. Organization we can deal with fairly easily. But yeah, we're not looking to send any ground forces into that territory.
murder Member	Sun Jan 29 16:20:44 Also in typical fashion, every American who talks about war with Iran massively underestimate the support the regime has ... and the amount of opposition that would work with the regime to repel a US invasion.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Sun Jan 29 18:14:34 It matters a great deal if the premise is as habebe suggested to arm whatever insurgency he imagines exists in Iran. And which countries bordering Iran are going to help? No one. Not even the Saudis would want this, another deatablized war torn country in the region would be terrible for everyone. The damage to the region would be more than that of Iraq, Syria and Afghanistan combined.
Dukhat Member	Sun Jan 29 22:14:03 I don't care about regime support. Just kill the most obnoxious fuckers so the others fall into line. We could've "won" in Afghanistan quickly without all the nation building bullshit. Arm the Northern Alliance and keep them in control in the north along with the major cities and keep a drone fleet to bombard the shit out of whatever remains of the taliban. But no, we have to fucking pretend democracy is possible and we have to prop up a bunch of fucking morons that have no legitimacy again. Play the game the way it's supposed to be played and let the fuckers handle themselves.
Habebe Member	Sun Jan 29 22:33:24 A government would need to restore order. We remember the chaos after Sadaam fell, instead of one brutal tyrant you have hundreds squabbling and regional powers exerting their force etc. Also I think Nimi has mistaken me for forwyn.Arming random insurgents would be chaos, Especially with Hamas and Hezbollah etc. In the mix. Chaos can not take root in Iran, that wouldn't benefit anyone. A transitionary government would need to installed somehow.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Mon Jan 30 04:24:30 I have correctly identified you as someone who think his country as omnipotent and actually able control these situation and produce the desired results e.g transitionsry government. It worked so great in Iraq. We can all list what we *need*, but the question here is if those needs can plausibly be attained. Very very low chance, for previously mentioned reasons of the limits of ”overwhelming power”. If you invaded Iran and occupied and rebuild it for 50 years, that would be the best bet. You could do this in theory, atleast technically but socially and politically it isn’t even possible in theory. Like I said, the geography of Iran makes it very difficult for insurgencies to take hold and not be contained. If you read Iranian history you will see that such things are at the borders and only possible when the neighbor is hostile. If the Iranian plateau has fallen, it’s over, GG the empire is collapsing.
Forwyn Member	Mon Jan 30 11:39:45 I think I've made my position abundantly clear over the years on the moral position and practical outcomes of arming jihadis.
Forwyn Member	Mon Jan 30 11:41:50 Perhaps you're attempting to interpose the Yemen situation here? This is, of course, an entirely different situation than others like Syria, Afghanistan, etc...because the rebels won. Quickly and efficiently. And we can cry about Iran making that happen, just like we have done and tried to do in so many others. But they won. And our answer was to park our warships off the coast and pummel a civilian population to try to force your Saudi puppet back in.
murder Member	Mon Jan 30 12:00:48 "We could've "won" in Afghanistan quickly without all the nation building bullshit. Arm the Northern Alliance and keep them in control in the north along with the major cities and keep a drone fleet to bombard the shit out of whatever remains of the taliban." That is correct.
murder Member	Mon Jan 30 12:16:39 "If you invaded Iran and occupied and rebuild it for 50 years, that would be the best bet. You could do this in theory, atleast technically but socially and politically it isn’t even possible in theory." Not even. Iran is more than twice the size and population of Iraq and Afghanistan combined. We don't have an army large enough to control a nation that size even if we dropped everything else. Anything beyond bombing facilities and targeted strikes against individuals and units is beyond our capabilities. Our ability to occupy a nation of any significant size is shrinking right along with our troop numbers. Even our ability to wreck stuck is diminishing due to the shrinking number of weapons platforms ... fewer warships, fewer bombers, fewer fighters, etc. We can make a mess, but we'd have little say in what happens afterward, and a diminishing ability to keep beating down the regime if it survives the initial onslaught. Just keeping the Persian Gulf open would become a full-time job.
Dukhat Member	Mon Jan 30 23:36:44 Wars of occupation are a waste of time. The army is made up of our dumbest men. They can point and shoot and thats about it. Which is fine. As Ukraine has shown, we dont even need to be there. Our weapons are so superior to other countries, even a simple missile system has basically decapitated the Russian military and we didn’t even send in a dozen of them. Intel and targeted strikes should be our focus. Cut off the head and let the rest figure it out. If Iranians want to fight for freedom, let them figure it out. We help them by helping ourselves which is nuking every fucking muslim fundamentalist from the skies.
murder Member	Tue Jan 31 05:33:10 "Iran is more than twice the size and population of Iraq and Afghanistan combined." Ugh! Not twice the size. More than the combined size and population of Iraq and Afghanistan.
murder Member	Tue Jan 31 05:36:02 "Intel and targeted strikes should be our focus. Cut off the head and let the rest figure it out. If Iranians want to fight for freedom, let them figure it out. We help them by helping ourselves which is nuking every fucking muslim fundamentalist from the skies." Yep.
jergul large member	Tue Jan 31 06:46:37 So many supporters of Iran getting nuclear weapons in this thread. Quite stunning.
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