Utopia Talk / Politics / Desperate Ukraine now using paper planes

LazyCommunist Member	Mon Mar 13 11:10:27 I can't stop laughing! Is this the best the West has to give to the Ukrainian Nazis? Hahahaha! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-k-2W23s3Ys An Aussie company is playing a unique role in the defence of Ukraine. SYPAQ has developed disposable drones made of cardboard, now used by soldiers for spying, supply drops and lethal missions.
Pillz Member	Mon Mar 13 11:13:49 90 leoprds in 2023 Russia ppwnt
jergul large member	Mon Mar 13 11:14:37 Yah, the cost of plastic drones are usually made of has been outragous.
murder Member	Mon Mar 13 12:44:33 Kind of brilliant really considering the life expectancy of a drone over enemy held territory. They can protect it from the elements with Saran Wrap. :o)
Seb Member	Mon Mar 13 13:19:50 Jergul: Cardboard is even easier to mass produce Vs injection molding
Seb Member	Mon Mar 13 13:21:22 Also, you are now approaching exactly what decoys look like and are made out of.
jergul large member	Mon Mar 13 14:18:52 If only the limitation had been the fuselage, instead of more complex engines and electronics, eh? Decoys, what decoys? Though always cute when you brainstorm ideas out of your ass.
murder Member	Mon Mar 13 14:31:47 "Decoys, what decoys?" These decoys. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-k-2W23s3Ys
jergul large member	Mon Mar 13 14:37:44 Those are not decoys.
murder Member	Mon Mar 13 14:53:34 It literally says so at the 40 second mark.
seb Member	Mon Mar 13 14:54:12 jergul: How many motor and actuator kits fit on a pallet, vs how many injection moulded plastic airframes? Also the components of those kits are increasingly COTS type components. You can quite quickly get to the stage where the injection moulded plastic is the harder thing to get hold of because everything else is consumer grade electronics serving multiple purpose, but the airframe isn't. Building out of general purpose COTS components with no specialised application specific supply chain dependencies is awesome. And yes, a tactical advantage if the materials you can make cheap shitty decoys and dummies out of is the same as your actual kit. Not sure why any of this is triggering or why you would need to try and pretend noting this amounts to a claim that Ukraine had loads of decoys and dummies. Probably just pissed off you didn't note it yourself.
jergul large member	Mon Mar 13 16:13:15 Not sure why you are triggered enough to start calling me triggered frankly. No way is molded plastics the limiting factor in drone production. Decoys for expendible assets? What is next, decoy 5.56 mm rounds? Also, Australia. Is that really the best place to source products from if you are trying to make that argument? You are just brainstorming and presented it as something worth serious consideration.
murder Member	Mon Mar 13 18:43:48 "What is next, decoy 5.56 mm rounds?" Are the Russians trying to intercept 5.56 mm rounds?
murder Member	Mon Mar 13 19:52:14 Fire extinguisher RPGs. http://www.youtube.com/shorts/NP5R_ZNfJY8
Paramount Member	Tue Mar 14 02:39:57 How strong winds can the cardboard drone handle? Can it handle rain?
Seb Member	Tue Mar 14 04:40:18 Jergul: "No way is molded plastics the limiting factor in drone production." In the ultra-light class, it's number of commercial grade quad copters the teams converting them to the sort of equivalent of airborne IEDs Ukraine have been using can get their hands on (so electric engines, consumer grade electronics and control systems, li batteries). How many of these can you build with the number of motors a quad copter requires? The clue is in the name of the quad copter. "Decoys for expendible assets?" Yeah. These are slow, if you are using them to attack a unit with grenades, what do you think the attrition rate would be? If the limiting factor is RPG warheads, or high resolution camera, theres an obvious benefit here. A bunch of cardboard planes flying around with nothing more than some cheap ass electronics, a motor and li battery Vs the one that's actually doing the mission. Sure it's speculation jergul, to demonstrate why this kind of thing is not that dumb. I'm not sure why you have got it into your head that this is anything else. I'm not sure what your point is. Possibly just that you are very very clever. "Australia" Its cardboard, and some off the shelf electronics. You can manufacturer these under licence pretty much anywhere. I'm pretty sure the only thing the Aussies might ship out is the electronic parts. Shipping stacks of flat cardboard seems an obvious waste when the Aussie can subcontract that to be produced pretty much anywhere. Paramount: Probably not much!
jergul large member	Tue Mar 14 04:51:34 Seb No way is molded plastics the limiting factor I say, you then agree with me by saying quad engines must be the limiting factor. RPGs are now the limiting factor? Suicide drones need ultra high resolution? Who are operating these irrecoverable decoys with molded plastic fuselages as that is the easiest thing in the world to make? And where is this happening outside of in your imagination? It sure is speculation. That you are sourcing from Australia because that is the logical country to argue streamlined logistics for Ukraine. I am very sure you are very wrong when you think Australias is not shipping the entire kit...if indeed they are shipping more than a few demonstration models. Who is incidentally buying the drones from the producer? Ah the hype. The cardboard wunderweapons of the Luftwaffe.
jergul large member	Tue Mar 14 04:56:02 Have they even been delivered to Ukraine? Or is this just some engineers at SYPAQ fooling around with cardboard? A lot of the other stuff SYPAQ produces would be way more useful to Ukraine. It makes some pretty high end autonomous surveillance drones.
jergul large member	Tue Mar 14 04:56:32 (The project is not on the companies home page)
Seb Member	Tue Mar 14 05:54:27 Jergul: "No way is molded plastics the limiting factor I say, you then agree with me by saying quad engines must be the limiting factor." What I said was: "Cardboard is even easier to mass produce Vs injection molding" Are you suggesting that it would be easier to better to not use the cardboard and instead use injection moulded plastic parts instead? I suggest that injection moulded plastic fuselage's would be a poor choice here. "RPGs are now the limiting factor?" "Suicide drones need ultra high resolution?" "Who are operating these irrecoverable decoys with molded plastic fuselages" Etc. Oh dear. You've slipped into knee jerk contrarianism mode again. Go have a coffee or something. I suspect the RPG might be the most expensive part, yes. RE high Res camera, you are focusing to much on the drone and not on the mission. If the mission is "put a bomb on a truck full of soldiers" then you want the drone with the bomb to survive long enough to do that and not be shot down. If the mission is "take some photos to let us know where to aim our artillery" then you want the drone with the camera to survive long enough to do that. You can *either* go for very survivable reusable things, or you can go for very cheap disposable things and hide the important one in the others. Or you can - if everything is cheap - not even bother with decoys and just have saturation. But that's probably a bit of a waste of 9 out of 10 RPG grenades get wasted, or 9/10 high Res cameras get lost. "Who are operating these irrecoverable decoys with molded plastic fuselages" Well indeed, you are the one that introduced the whole discussion about plastic. You can hardly blame me for the lack of substantial reality for a counterfactual you raised from your own imagination. "The cardboard wunderweapons of the Luftwaffe." First exaggerate, then simplify. You old hack you! "The project is not on the companies home page" http://www...istics-drone-contract-by-army/ http://www.sypaq.com.au/news/sypaq-supporting-ukrainian-armed-forces/ http://www.sypaq.com.au/solution/corvo-unmanned-systems/ One report has them cheaper than commercial drones of the same range. So maybe makes even less sense to reverse engineer them. Anyway, whether produced locally or shipped from Australia, if you can fit 15 on a couple of pallets it doesn't really matter where it comes from.
jergul large member	Tue Mar 14 07:58:09 Seb The limiting factor for drone production is not molded plastic. You have not documented that cardboard is indeed easier btw. Its frump vrs cut, cut, cut, cut, cut, cut. to tame one aspect. Plastic granules are also way easier logistically. They come in huge sacks that are dumped by the ton into feeders. You raise decoys. Try to keep track of your brainfarts, mkay? "contract to SYPAQ to develop and demonstrate a next-generation battlefield logistics small unmanned aerial system" "the announcement in July 2022 that Defence would be providing further funds to purchase much-needed defence technology and equipment for Ukraine" So still just an idea with some prototypes that have been tested in Ukraine then. It matters where things come from. Mel-Amst-Pol-Kiev-Donbas. Minimum 10 load-unload sequences.
jergul large member	Tue Mar 14 08:00:27 3 pallets would involve repacking containers at every juncture too. At least try to fill a container if you want to argue...but, but, it is so easy and convenient.
jergul large member	Tue Mar 14 08:30:07 The tape job looks to be factory made incidentally, so product assembly is about the same as with any drone. Wings and fuselage attached before use. The rest assembled in Australia.
murder Member	Tue Mar 14 09:09:46 "That you are sourcing from Australia because that is the logical country to argue streamlined logistics for Ukraine." Did you just type "streamlined logistics for Ukraine"? Nothing about the supply of weapons to Ukraine is streamlined. They take whatever they can get and try to make use of it as best they can.
jergul large member	Tue Mar 14 09:25:10 I typed that Seb was making that argument, yes. I am well aware of Frankenarmy issues. So bad it is doubtful Bradley and Leopard 1s and 2s will make it worse.
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