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Utopia Talk / Politics / Corporatocracy - nut sack deep in it now
Hrothgar
Member
Mon May 08 18:59:46
http://www...bt-ceiling-sources-2023-05-08/

The ever growing and massive wealth gap between the richest and everyone else is leading us straight into Corporatocracy - government by corporation.

All of our governments' stability are ever more dependent on the influence from the richest among us. Our elected leaders rarely will sacrifice personal ego for voters anymore, but they will be budged when some billionairs and bunch of very wealthy CEOs start barking at them.
Hrothgar
Member
Mon May 08 19:08:31
Related to the corporate side, we have the modern private army evolution happening, strongly being evolved by the Russians in their self-inflicted massive scale war.

It's no longer outlandish to see a scenario where a company like Wagner could be used to usurp and guarantee power in even large nation states.

It's not a far leap of logic to see corporations themselves evolve into running private military forces to help garantee and protect various trade and economy activities as traditional governments lose their influence to corporations.
murder
Member
Tue May 09 12:19:59

There is no debt ceiling. The debt ceiling is made up nonsense. The time for Congress to determine how far the nation into debt can go is when they are passing appropriations bills.

Hrothgar
Member
Thu May 11 22:37:30
This isn't so much about the debt ceiling, as that those trying to achieve a specific political outcome feel that going to big business leadership is a more useful tactic than pressing legislators about what is best for citizens and voters.

Government power to govern is being eroded by Big business power to govern.
kargen
Member
Fri May 12 02:03:05
Technically we also can't default on the debt. When the due date passes any revenue automatically goes to the debt until caught back up. We hit the deadline on June 1 and on June 2nd is the next revenue dump.
Neither side wants to admit the debt would be paid if they do nothing because that revenue is something they want to spend on pet projects.
jergul
large member
Fri May 12 02:26:29
Kargen
Why do you believe that to be true?

True enough that any default will only be partial. The Federal Government can cover some of the bonds, notes etc as they reach maturity.

The problem is you cannot recycle debt, nor take up new debt to cover ongoing expenses.

A cheesecutter approach would see Federal cuts in the region of 20% across the board. But mandatory spending is mandatory spending.

6.3 trillion debt matures in 2023, so say 3.3 trillion. A partial default giving 40 cents on the dollar (with some outlandish iou scheme for the rest that is not technically debt, but designed to protect investors until the spending limit is lifted).

That is probably the way to go. It is incremental (defaulting on 125 billion a month). So no real need to cut into discretionary spending even.

So if "the market" is going to go apeshit over such a trifle, then it probably was not viable in the first place.
murder
Member
Fri May 12 10:13:49

Biden can just declare a national fiscal emergency and do whatever needs doing to avoid default. The worst that can happen is the House would impeach him.

Average Ameriacn
Member
Fri May 12 10:52:12
THE BUCK STOPS HERE!
kargen
Member
Fri May 12 12:41:48
"Why do you believe that to be true?"

because it is. The payment may be late but as it stands now revenue would go towards getting under the debt ceiling before it be allocated to discretionary spending. A significant reason we are approaching the debt ceiling is because filing taxes in California was extended for a lot of people due to storms. Also have a higher than average number of people across the country filing for extensions. The money is going to get here later that normal.
As I said next big dump is expected June 2nd so we would be in default one day if we default on 1st.

The USA can if it chooses default on debt and in fact has done so four times. Neither party wants that little tidbit out there in public either as in the end the majority of both parties want to increase spending. They just differ in where to spend it.

In 1933 the Supreme Court ruled 5-4 to uphold the sovereign power of the government to default if it chose to.
jergul
large member
Sat May 13 06:18:18
Kargen
Well, yes, obviously. Revenue comes in before it goes to discretionary spending or to pay matured treasury issues.

Why would you think that paying matured treasury issues is automatically a higher priority than discretionary spending?

The significant reason for approaching the debt ceiling is this years fiscal deficit of 1.4 trillion.

I think the global market can deal with the US partially defaulting to the order of 125 billion a month.

The Federal Reserve can always step in again and buy up debt that needs to be recycled (300 billion a month) to keep the US at the debt limit if appetite for US treasuries plummets for some reason.
jergul
large member
Sat May 13 06:21:49
Trouble would only arise when you started partially defaulting on treasury issues held by the Federal Reserve. So I guess it should go for long term issues unless government shuold preferrentially honour Reserve debt in full, and shortchange the other lenders and a higher rate.
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