Utopia Talk / Politics / What is woke?

Im better then you 2012 UP Football Champ	Mon May 22 14:26:45 Some funny responses http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBOWIiCcR-o
Rugian Member	Mon May 22 16:07:46 DeSantis had the best response out of all of them. Also, fuck you. I'm gonna have Daily Show garbage showing up in my feed for the next year now.
murder Member	Tue May 23 20:51:04 Woke is yet another thing white people appropriated from black people.
Y2A Member	Tue May 23 21:31:43 Woke => anti-Jim Crow Woke => anti-Apartheid Woke => anti-Slavery Woke => anti-Serfdom Woke => anti-Feudalism Basically "woke" is a reactionary term that whichever dominant class at any given time in history uses to try to defuse progress.
obaminated Member	Tue May 23 21:36:49 Woke is surrendering all independent and critical thinking.
Habebe Member	Wed May 24 01:50:57 Y2a thinks silicon valley is oppressed by the dominant class who want to enslave them....
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Wed May 24 10:19:00 Men give birth, women have dicks, of course the tyrannical bully is the heroic underdog in his narratives.
Rugian Member	Wed May 24 10:44:06 "Basically "woke" is a reactionary term that whichever dominant class at any given time in history uses to try to defuse progress." Y2A complaining about progress while living a lifestyle that most emperors and kings of old would be jealous of. I love it.
Rugian Member	Wed May 24 10:47:18 And no, progression is not the same as progress. Our society is certainly progressing in a direction that promotes mutilating children in the name of an LGBT agenda, but that's not what any sane person would consider "progress."
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Wed May 24 10:49:54 As a personal example, Y2A called me a married incel with children. There was an article by Francis Fukuyama the other week, where he lamented that the tyranny of woke in Hollywood, universities and other cultural spaces, but that this wasn't important, since most people don't live in these places. While juxtaposing it what reactionary snow flakes conservative are to fight back. Just saying that even this guy, who is supposedly one of the smert liberal political theorists, who has influenced the global liberal elite, doesn't understand the basic arithmetic of power and influence.
patom Member	Wed May 24 11:01:18 How about a descriptive word for those who live in their own fantasy world. Blind Numb I'm just trying to find easy one syllable words.
Y2A Member	Wed May 24 21:09:36 "Y2a thinks silicon valley is oppressed by the dominant class who want to enslave them...." bruh, token dei powerless "execs" are not the dominant class. looks like I triggered alot of people with the simple truth lol
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Thu May 25 02:10:45 "triggered" Y2A - Scourge of semantics, destroyer of words. However you do make a great and efficient study case for the pathology of the OP. No one can take that away from you.
jergul large member	Thu May 25 07:03:19 Y2A is correct. A woke issue is sexual autonomy. "men giving birth and women with dicks" An ad-absurdum debating fallacy.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Thu May 25 07:45:29 According to the Y2As women can have dicks, men can be pregnant and as illustrated with Francis Fukuyama, they are completely obvlivious to and/or pathologically down playing the power and influence of the institutions that are most plagued with the woke virus. http://utopiaforums.com/boardthread?id=politics&thread=87953 Here is Y2A not comprehending the impact and role of the BBC and the DEI policy they implement. You can think what you want about the policy, that is your personal values, but to not understand the influence on culture down stream of the policy the BBC sets, that is objectively being uneducated. You are out of your depth here, failing at reading comprehension, remembering things well enough to create a model of posters and correctly identifying fallacies.
Rugian Member	Thu May 25 07:56:40 Women cannot have dicks, men cannot give birth. Wokists believe otherwise. That's one of many reasons we call them kooky fanatics.
Dukhat Member	Thu May 25 09:14:11 What is woke? Baby don't hurt meeee ... don't hurt meee ... NO MO'!
jergul large member	Thu May 25 10:38:17 Nimi The depth is more uncomfortably shallow. But you often do have 180 flaws to your analysis, so you are forgiven. Charaterising people or movements by the extremes of what logically follows from their core positions is an ad abrsudium fallacy. Jergul: I believe defeating hitler was a good idea. Nimi: Aha, Jergul is a Gipsy and Homolover. Jergul: Well, uhm, they were prosecuted and killed by the Nazis, so, well, I suppose, but that is not the point. And nimi forever after refers to me as homolover. This is a very problematic way of arguing and of thinking frankly.
jergul large member	Thu May 25 10:45:59 Ruggy Wokists would not really care as human sexuality is not in a binary stasis. What they do care about is sexual identity. Is it ok for a person identifying as a woman to have a dick? Why sure. Up to them. Is it ok for a person identifying as a man to give birth? Certainly. In principle. In the very rare occassions that happens. The core Woke idea here actually rotates around the integrity of self. So falls into core liberalists philosophy. No worries though, the Emprists were not universally loved either.
Rugian Member	Thu May 25 10:56:32 "Wokists would not really care as human sexuality is not in a binary stasis." Oh shut the hell up with that nonsense. Look, however a person wants to view their identity is their own business. That does not, however, mean that the rest of the world needs to accept their batshit insanity as objective reality. The rules of human biology don't stop functioning just because Bruce Jenner suffers from mental illness.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Thu May 25 11:30:25 "by the extremes of what logically follows from their core positions is an ad abrsudium fallacy." Nope, it isn't the "extremes of the core position", this is what you have trouble comprehending, it is a flaw in "the core position" AKA the model of sense making, a pathology that doesn't even escape the likes of Fukuyama. Even in agreeing implictly (explicitly in the case of Fukuyama), they just go on to downplay the role of the institutions involved in the next sentence. You see the pattern in the woke model and you can easily start predicting where it goes next. It is this patterns that is interesting (like disease pathology is interesting), not the extreme outcomes, not even that the extreme outcomes are predictable, but this dance afterwards. TLDR: Yes this thing going on over here* is horrible and ugly, but it has no impact since most people don't live and work here. nOW LoOk aT wHaT cOnSeRvaTIves aRe dOiNG tO rOE v wADE! *Universities http://www.theunpopulist.net/p/the-new-right-state-power A simpler version is when Earthpig after some back and forth about trans men in women sports just threw up his hands and said who cares about college sports for women anyway, they'll survive!
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Thu May 25 11:39:09 Rugian Jergul has his own rules for biology, like for realz, so this isn't as big of a leap for him as it is for others. Jergul is already completely unmoored from reality and his knowledge emerges from "alt-science". Like a Lysenko light.
jergul large member	Thu May 25 11:52:39 Nimi Wow, you sure did misunderstand that essay. Of course institutions are influential, but their internal policies are not going radically change the United States. Even radical institutional change mandated by the USSC fully supported by the Federal Government take decades. See paradigm shift joke about the last proponent having to die of old age. Hollywood and Universities have always been liberalist hotbeds. Nothing new there. Nothing new about portraying that as an existential threat either. See McCarthyism for details. Ruggy That is an interesting point. Do I have to honour someones wishes when they are in transition? Nope. Do I have to honour it after their gender is legally changed? Nope. But common courtesy suggests we call people the way they prefer to be called. See Nigger and Ms for historical analogies.
jergul large member	Thu May 25 11:58:14 Nimi Incorrect. It is a small leap for anyone who understands and likes Lockean philosophy.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Thu May 25 12:16:12 "but their internal policies are not going radically change the United States" Their internal policies influence everything that goes on in the institutions, primarily by way of curriculum and scientific output, what to study, how to study, who can come and talk at the university (i.e what conversations that can be had) etc., it was mostly in the social sciences, but now see that no faculty is immune. This was really the best you had? Deny that organization culture and norms have impact on the output of organization where the primary output is intellectual and cultural? You call this dissent? lol :)
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Thu May 25 12:32:48 Just so you don't waste time, I am not going debate the impact of organization culture and group norms on the intellectual and cultural output of said organization any more than I would debate your version of evolutionary theory, gravity or any aspect of the alternate reality you think you inhabit.
jergul large member	Thu May 25 12:54:20 Nimi What was unclear about "not going to radically change the United States"? You call this reading comprehentions? lol :)
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Thu May 25 15:37:21 No I call that precisely the pathological behavior I am talking about! Who cares what political leanings supreme court justices have, it will not radically change the USA. "Radically" is doing a lot of heavy lifting here, it will take decades so, who cares, right?
jergul large member	Thu May 25 16:07:44 So we are back to the pathology of McCarthyism then. How do you suggest Universities and Hollywood should be purged of unamerican behavior?
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Thu May 25 17:26:40 I am content if my neighbor (you) understands what I am saying and coming from. We have difficulties on that basic level of making sense, would be a spectacular way to put the horse before the cart and looking for ways to "purge" the problem. How about we start there?
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Thu May 25 17:34:24 lol obviously I meant putting the cart before the horse :)
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Thu May 25 18:34:08 Universities, set the tone for debates on various social and political issues, and the ideologies and perspectives propagated within academia influence broader societal discourse. The research produced by universities often has a profound impact on public policy, shaping the direction of scientific advancements, social progress, and government decision-making. Moreover, universities serve as platforms for hosting events and inviting speakers who can shape public opinion. The choices made by universities regarding who they invite to speak and what ideas are promoted can have significant ramifications for public discourse and the diversity of viewpoints represented. This is such an obvious asymmetry of power, and you expect that someone like Fukuyama to be familiar with the concept and incorporate that into his thinking, instead of being dumbfounded by the rise of an "authoritarian right" who are willing to, god help us, use power mandated to them by the fucking people, to fight back these woke excesses. He then ends the article with a massive cope out, unless things are tyrannical like Russia or China he isn't taking you seriously. This is mid-wit level thinking and frankly not what you expect from some like Fukuyama. I have heard it before, "Sweden isn't like Baghdad or Beirut, what are you guys complaining about?" It not enough to point out we are driving towards the cliff, no we need to be airborne before the most stoic among us take the problem seriously.
jergul large member	Thu May 25 23:19:06 What a noble defence of hyperbole. The problem you see is that creationism and other mainstream conservative ideas are not getting equal bandwidth at unis because unis think such ideas are stupid. The problem the author sees is that conservative populists are willing to destroy liberalism, using some woke excesses to do so. You know, outragous things like the little mermaid having pigmented skin (I trust reproductive freedom is not a woke excess in your mind). You know what they say, science has a liberal bias. Sad I know, but true.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Fri May 26 04:39:19 That is an impressive act of navel gazing and fart sniffing. Did not know a human could bend and contort like this.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Fri May 26 05:29:21 "I trust reproductive freedom is not a woke excess in your mind" The choice to frame it as a single issue with a single concern, as you do here, is problematic whoever does it. The psychotic episodes people have, when any aspect of abortion laws or limits are questioned, AKA the quintessential woke reaction to questioning orthodoxy, very difficult to do anything with and corrosive to any debate. "You know what they say, science has a liberal bias." Oh I can just see the smug face ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) of a million woke imbeciles starring at me. Then you have to explain that most science and new ideas are complete bullshit, wrong and/or harmful, so over time and at great cost to our specie, reality (that science tries to approximate) has found a conservative grounding. You let loose the anchor at your own peril. When universities do it, it is at all our peril. Not the zinger you think it is :/ but true.
Sam Adams Member	Fri May 26 15:27:33 http://fre...-before-promotion-to-top-jobs/ Seattle firefighters are quizzed on their wokeness more than their firefighting ability. In fact, in 2021, local officials including Scoggins commissioned a report on diversity in the fire service. One of its recommendations: avoid tests that "rely heavily on knowledge of firefighting."
obaminated Member	Fri May 26 15:56:17 Who the fuck still works as a firefighter/cop in Seattle? Holy shit just move already.
Sam Adams Member	Fri May 26 16:27:45 Seattle has a fuckload of money. They really hate giving it to white men though, but white men are the only ones qualified and the libs fucking hate it.
Rugian Member	Fri May 26 16:48:24 Imagine having to read Ibram X. Kendi as a requirement for a fucking firefighter job. What a hot mess.
Rugian Member	Fri May 26 16:51:40 "The test, which has both written and oral components, is based on a list of texts assigned by the Seattle Department of Human Resources—including, as of this year, How To Be An Antiracist by Ibram X. Kendi and Both Sides of the Fire Lane: Memoirs of a Transgender Firefighter by Bobbie Scopa, according to a copy of the exam bibliography obtained by the Washington Free Beacon. Along with A Leader’s Guide to Unconscious Bias and Fighting Fire, a memoir by a female firefighter, the books about race and gender span over 800 pages—a large fraction of the total study material." I unironically hope that Kim Jong Un nukes the West Coast.
Cherub Cow Member	Sat May 27 05:36:59 [Y2A]: "Basically "woke" is a reactionary term that whichever dominant class at any given time in history uses to try to defuse progress." Hilariously backwards :D "Woke" people are *for* all of those things. Those things (apartheid, slavery, serfdom, feudalism) are the direct consequence of woke ideology. "Woke" is designed to enslave. I've been saying this in UP since at least 2015 (i.e., pointing out what is behind the rising cultism of the left), but I made a more concise explanation here. This is not a long article, and if you read it you'll be ahead of James Lindsay, Auron MacIntyre, Tim Pool (for a more recognizable name), and all the others who have been in the right wing space but still cannot see the obvious: "On a Trending Question: What Is 'Woke'? "A Simple Summary" [March 17th, 2023] http://che...trending-question-what-is-woke "• We are experiencing a worldwide movement of weaponized slave morality. "• "Woke" is slave morality." It's that simple. Some low-IQ leftist could attempt to dazzle by taking you through the history of "woke" in terms of Marcus Gravey, Huddie Ledbetter, William Melvin Kelley, and Barry Beckham while pretending that there's no hint of Marxism in any of it — but, even that being false (i.e., to the contrary, those people *are* Marxist projects), they cannot escape that slave morality is laced in *all* of it. Slave morality is the prevaricating self-destruction of a weak people. It is an anti-culture. It is the pathway of resentful nihilists deprived of true action and turned instead to the destruction of their own consciousness (called today "critical consciousness"). As a thought exercise, Let's pretend that you're .. • a mental cretin such as jergul, or • an impotent former academic who can barely write, such as wtb, or • a vengeful and murderous psychopath with no willpower such as murder.. That is, imagine that you're.. • incompetent, • useless, • pathetic, • incapable of greatness, • can barely show up to work on time or have been repeatedly fired for a poor work ethic, • have poor impulse control, • have no concept of causality and thus easily slip into simulations/dissimulation, • are intensely resentful of anyone rich, prosperous, strong, beautiful, or brave.. Now, in a functioning society, such weak people are products of themselves. That is, they fail to rise above their low level of competence. This means that they gain only as much power as they are competent, so they have almost no power in society — rightly so. But, in every society which has been destroyed by slave morality (and there are a *lot*), the common theme is that these weak people are artificially given power that they did not earn, do not understand, and cannot wield with virtue since they possess no virtue. The result is the destruction of society. This simple truth is the warfare of hundreds of generations. The so-called "cycles of history" are fabrications. The only "cycle" is that powers which sought to destroy their rivals empowered the resentful nihilists living in those societies (e.g., CIA operations to de-stabilize countries typically fund left-wing nihilists, Roman cities were destroyed by elevating the incompetent and corrupt into sinecures). This "works" because resentful nihilists, when given power, can only destroy. The very idea of "burning it all down" is their only vision for the future. They are wholly incapable of great works of art. Their ideal society is a leveling of greatness so that they, in their total weakness and inefficacy, can force their betters at last to look them in their cloudy, pathetic eyes.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Sat May 27 05:56:58 CC But, in every society which has been destroyed by slave morality (and there are a *lot*), the common theme is that these weak people are artificially given power that they did not earn, do not understand, and cannot wield with virtue since they possess no virtue. The result is the destruction of society. “ This paper is supplementary to this. You have probably read it. Prejudice is free, discrimination has costs. http://cdn.mises.org/14_2_3_0.pdf TL:DR In a free and capitalist market, racism can’t really hold back capable people/groups. Example include Jews in Europe, Chinese in Malaysia and others. Government intervention / affirmative actions policies, always lead to violence. Paper is from 2000 and managed to predict the BLM riots :-)
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