Utopia Talk / Politics / Gaza: Quoniam pacem pati non potuistis

Rugian Member	Fri Oct 13 11:59:06 Previously, the Europeans on this board (Seb, Jergul, Paramount) committed one of the single most morally bankrupt and disgusting acts that I have ever witnessed. They believe that Israel should reward the Palestinians' wholesale slaughter of innocent families and babies by capitulating to their demands and rewarding them with an independent state. This would be the equivalent of telling the US on 9/17 that it should respond to Bin Laden by giving him a billion dollars and 72 American virgins as sex slaves. These are the same people who are grandsons of those who were passive observers of, if not active participants in, the Holocaust, which saw the near-complete liquidation of European Jewry in the single worst act of industrial genocide ever committed by man. These people are depraved, their souls are rotten, and I believe they are evil to their core. Seb, Jergul, Paramount, people are like you are the reason why Holocaust Remembrance Centers are still necessary to this day. And with that, link to previous: http://uto...hread=92232&time=1697204141033
Dukhat Member	Fri Oct 13 12:07:32 Reading Comprehension of a small child I see.
Dukhat Member	Fri Oct 13 12:14:23 LoL at Israel telling 1.1 million people to flee a narrow strip of land that they have completely sieged from all sides. Making untold numbers of people flee to squalor and filt, most of which who had little to do with the attacks a week ago is a very Bibi thing to do. How about punishing those who actually perpetrated the attacks and targeting Hamas directly or is Israeli intelligence that fucking terrible now after Bibi's long tenure as the leader of Israel.
Sam Adams Member	Fri Oct 13 12:17:37 Hamas has 20,000 infantry hidden in tunnels under those 1.1 million human shields. To root out that sort of entrenched resistance requires massive firepower. The human shields need to move if they want to live.
Sam Adams Member	Fri Oct 13 12:19:48 Note there are large easy safe corridors out of northern gaza. Video exists of packed roads of undamaged cars heading south, though hamas is telling them all to stay(they are desperate to keep their human shields around).
Sam Adams Member	Fri Oct 13 12:22:33 Im hearing rumors that israel might really go to town from the air tonight and wait another day or 2 to send in the tanks. Good practice to keep the enemy guessing...
Rugian Member	Fri Oct 13 12:27:22 I would give almost anything to see Israel kick off the invasion with helicopters blasting this on their speakers: http://m.y...ygURaGF2YSBuYWdpbGEgcmVtaXg%3D
Asgard Member	Fri Oct 13 13:14:05 Funny how everyone blames Israel for the blockade as if they do not share a border with Egypt
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Fri Oct 13 16:48:10 So, I'm hearing that Hamas terrorist leaders, they send all their own children out of Gaza, so they can live normal lives in Dubai and other place. Is this true? This is what the Islamic republic terrorist also do.
murder Member	Fri Oct 13 20:38:40 "How about punishing those who actually perpetrated the attacks and targeting Hamas directly or is Israeli intelligence that fucking terrible now after Bibi's long tenure as the leader of Israel." You have to go in to do that. And everyone screaming about the bombings and the forced evacuation would be screaming about ground combat amongst civilians if Israel didn't force everyone out beforehand.
Sam Adams Member	Fri Oct 13 22:56:16 http://youtu.be/X8OeBZQn3_w?si=k9iJ3UTUSmmlDsTf THIS song is the one all jews should play when riding into combat.
Sam Adams Member	Fri Oct 13 23:09:21 Lots of left-wing media are publishing lots of pro-palestinian propaganda. CNN, NYT, MSDNC, huffpo, are just overflowing with it, just did a cursory check. The jihad squad too. I dont get how jews vote for democrats.
Forwyn Member	Sat Oct 14 00:07:31 "LoL at Israel telling 1.1 million people to flee a narrow strip of land that they have completely sieged from all sides." Maybe all of the rich Arab nations saying they support Palestine can take them.
LazyCommunist Member	Sat Oct 14 03:59:16 Don't be like the Nazis, you know what we do with Nazis!! http://www...lt-civilian-losses-2023-10-13/ Putin cautions Israel against using tactics in Gaza like Nazi siege of Leningrad October 13, 2023 BISHKEK, Oct 13 (Reuters) - Russian President Vladimir Putin cautioned Israel on Friday against laying siege to Gaza in the same way that Nazi Germany besieged Leningrad, saying a ground offensive there would lead to an "absolutely unacceptable" number of civilian casualties. Putin said Israel had been subjected to "an attack unprecedented in its cruelty" by Hamas militants, but was responding with cruel methods of its own. He said there had been calls even in the United States for a blockade of the Hamas-controlled Gaza Strip on a par with "the siege of Leningrad during World War Two". "In my view it is unacceptable," Putin told reporters at a summit in Kyrgyzstan. "More than 2 million people live there. Far from all of them support Hamas by the way, far from all. But all of them have to suffer, including women and children. Of course it's hard for anyone to agree with this." His criticism of Israel was made all the more stinging by the reference to the 1941-44 siege of Leningrad and the implied comparison between Israel and Hitler's Germany, with potential for causing deep offence in Israel. Putin said, however, that Israel had the right to defend itself. He was speaking after Israel's military called for all civilians of Gaza City, more than 1 million people, to relocate south within 24 hours, as it massed tanks for an expected ground invasion in response to Saturday's devastating Hamas attack. Putin said a ground attack would lead to "serious consequences for all sides". "And most importantly, the civilian casualties will be absolutely unacceptable. Now the main thing is to stop the bloodshed," he said. Putin called for negotiations in the Middle East, saying Moscow was "ready to coordinate with all constructively minded partners". He said the key to resolving the Israeli-Palestinian conflict was the creation of an independent Palestinian state with East Jerusalem as its capital. Russia says it is in a position to help mediate because it has relations with Israel, the Palestinians, groups such as Hamas and Hezbollah, Iran and major Arab powers. Russian Deputy Foreign Minister Mikhail Bogdanov held separate conversations in Moscow on Friday with the ambassadors of Israel, Lebanon and Iran, and the foreign ministry said Moscow's contacts with Hamas would also continue. In the past week, both Moscow and Kyiv have sought to compare the events in the Middle East to the war in Ukraine. "More than a million people from Gaza must urgently evacuate... at the demand of the Israeli army. Yet all the 'Western partners' are shamefully silent," former Russian President Dmitry Medvedev said. "I wonder what their reaction would be to a similar demand to the Kyiv regime to evacuate one of (its) major cities?"
jergul large member	Sat Oct 14 05:51:45 Ruggy I have been pretty clear on saying the first step towards normalization (either two states, or one state solutions) is the physical reoccupation of gaza. The wierd hands off occupation scheme Israel has tried out for a while demonstrably does not work.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Sat Oct 14 06:19:20 "I have been pretty clear on saying the first step towards normalization" Maybe like in the last couple of hours, day or two, but that was certainly not what you said initially, when others had "hysterically" assessed the situation to be very serious. We touched the grass, it was full of glass shards and needles. At this moment, you have to be an anti-semite (socialists included), Islamist or some other kind of crazy person to not understand that Israel has to go into Gaza and stay there until every Hamas element is annihilated or arrested. It was the initial assessment of the facts on the ground that was the challenge, I thought, like, you were good at that and stuff. Anyway, glad you have joined the hysterical bandwagon!
Seb Member	Sat Oct 14 06:30:35 Rugian: Nobody thinks you are a moral authority or cares about your disingenuous grandstanding. Sam: The principle of an evacuation is fine. Demanding impossible timescales and taking other steps that would make it deadly (continued bombing during evacuation, preventing food and water and humanitarian relief entering the strip to house, feed and hydrate the evacuees) is the issue. Asgard: Egypt isn't the one bombing them right now. Murder: "would be screaming about ground combat amongst civilians if Israel didn't force everyone out beforehand." Yes. It's almost like the issue isn't the principle that civilians should be evacuated, but that the parameters and conditions of the "evacuation" Israel has offered are utterly unworkable so will result in combat taking place among civilians. Israel should provide reasonable timeframes, permit humanitarian relief into the strip so that civilians can be temporarily housed and sustained during the evacuation, and guarantee that they can return thereafter.
jergul large member	Sat Oct 14 06:41:28 Nimi I initially said that Israel will not be committing the genocide you are were feverishly hoping for, so I told you to take a chill pill and touch some grass. Israel has go to into gaza and stay until a final settlement is agreed on with all the obligations that incurs. Most likely longer because Gaza will likely have to be under martial law for a long, long time.
jergul large member	Sat Oct 14 06:43:55 Pulling out again will simply see the cycle of violence repeat until Israel finally mans up and admits its stand-off occupation was a failure, and that boots on the ground physically occupying Gaza is what is needed.
murder Member	Sat Oct 14 06:44:41 "Yes. It's almost like the issue isn't the principle that civilians should be evacuated, but that the parameters and conditions of the "evacuation" Israel has offered are utterly unworkable so will result in combat taking place among civilians." You have no idea where Israel will be conducting combat today or tomorrow or the next day. You just know that they told everyone to GTFO of northern Gaza immediately. And yeah there will be combat amongst civilians because plenty of civilians are willing human shields who have no intentions of leaving Hamas exposed. "Israel should provide reasonable timeframes, permit humanitarian relief into the strip so that civilians can be temporarily housed and sustained during the evacuation, and guarantee that they can return thereafter." Israel should turn the water back on. Egypt should allow volunteers to deliver food at their own risk. That's it. Actually Egypt can allow Palestinians to evacuate into Sinai. There's plenty of room for them there and they would be safe from combat operations.
murder Member	Sat Oct 14 06:46:55 "Israel has go to into gaza and stay until a final settlement is agreed on with all the obligations that incurs. Most likely longer because Gaza will likely have to be under martial law for a long, long time." That's what Israel's enemies would like. What they need to do is go in, clean house, and then leave. Occupations are for suckers.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Sat Oct 14 06:47:11 jergul large member Sat Oct 07 17:11:53 Obam I think facts on the ground matter. Israel goes to great lengths to recover its servicemembers. Hostages and POWs will form the Israeli response. But we need not argue this point. You think Israel will occupy Gaza and ethnically cleans the area. I think Israel will bomb Gaza, perform limited incursions into Gaza, and hit a couple command bunkers in Syria it thinks contains Iranian commanders. Gazan deaths (militant and civilian) less than 10k. Time will soon show which of us is correct. ************** No, you did not, you cowardly little liar you :) Nobody cares that you decided you contrast your position with the other extreme, but in the post alone, Obaminated is more wrong. He was 50% correct, you were zero.
jergul large member	Sat Oct 14 06:48:04 Planned evacuations of civilians are entirely possible. Both Ukraine and Russia have done that successfully in their conflict. With that said, I dont exactly see Western countries lining up to accept refugees like they did for Ukraine. That highlights why something has to change. Gazans suffering from multi-generational trauma are too risky to have as refugees. At least at scale. But yes, refugee quotas will likely have to be part of a final settlement after a long period of deescalation and normalization. It is the least we can do given our role in creating the groundwork for this mess starting more than a century ago.
jergul large member	Sat Oct 14 06:51:37 Nimi Could you imagine living an hour without an adhom? Maybe. You should give it a go. It might be good for your mental health. That is what I think will happen. A different thing from what I think Israel should do and will eventually have to do. Anything less than full physical occupaton will simple see the cycle of violence repeat until Israel finally physically reoccupies Gaza.
jergul large member	Sat Oct 14 06:54:20 Ultimately, that is the defining characteristic of so-called liberals in this forum. We are way more civilized in general, though we reserve the right to be assholes too if the mood suits :).
Rugian Member	Sat Oct 14 06:57:25 Seb No one here considers you to be intelligent, knowledgeable, or capable of rational thought. Jergul Short of an ethnic cleansing, what exactly do you see as the endgame of such an occupation? Do you see the Palestinians abandoning militant Islam and anti-Semitism, casting off Hamas, embracing Scandinavian-style social democracy, and becoming such a force for peace that Israel would be honored to call them a fellow sovereign state? It ain't happening. Sometimes, wholesale resettlement of a people (India-Pakistan style) is the only way to go.
jergul large member	Sat Oct 14 07:00:51 It is an ideological thing. We know reasonable dissent is to be treasured, so we try to nuture, or at least humour it. As opposed to the right wing, tribal, authoritarian need to crush people with undesirable thoughts. In the same of individualism and muh freedumb but of course. The irony always amuses me :)
jergul large member	Sat Oct 14 07:02:26 Ruggy I have typed it out before. Gaza gets to vote in a referundom on a final settlement negotiated between the PA and Israel. Gaza may have to remain under martial law past that point too. Depends on the security situation.
jergul large member	Sat Oct 14 07:04:50 There is nowhere to resettle to. It simply moves a profound security threat to outside areas Israel can physically control. Gaza is the bantustan solution you are suggesting (population moved for security reasons). Moving them again will not help at all.
Rugian Member	Sat Oct 14 07:04:51 And there's the failure with your plan. The last time the Gazans voted for anything, they elected Hamas. The last time Israel made a serious peace offer, The Palestinians responded with the Second Intafada. At some point you have to acknowledge that peace is not what the Palestinians want.
jergul large member	Sat Oct 14 07:06:19 Unless, well, can we give the Palestinians Brandenburg and East Berlin? Or is it too late?
jergul large member	Sat Oct 14 07:10:19 Voting no simply means continued occupation until things have normalized enough for Gazans to join the fold. Hamas was the answer to lack of prospects for the Gazan population. There are other answers to lack of prospects, but those take time to develop. A long time. There are only two serious peace offers to make btw. A two state solution with full Palestinian sovereignity, or a one state solution with full democratic rights to Palestinians in areas not under martial law.
Rugian Member	Sat Oct 14 07:14:30 "There are only two serious peace offers to make btw. A two state solution with full Palestinian sovereignity, or a one state solution with full democratic rights to Palestinians in areas not under martial law." Those *were* the only two serious offers. In 1999. They've been off the table for a generation now jergul. As much as we might pine for what could have been, we need to acknowledge the reality of today.
jergul large member	Sat Oct 14 07:20:57 Ruggy Well, then resistance will continue I imagine, and sometimes resistance will take illegal, terrorist forms. That is by far the most likely outcome moving forward is the return to status quo with the exact same basis for future Hamas (or best case Hamas successor) operations. Rinse-repeat until Israel takes the first step towards peace by giving up on its wierd hand-off occupation and physically re-occupies Gaza.
Allahuakbar Member	Sat Oct 14 07:24:23 This is great news! A great victory for the Hamas, after this war all Muslims will be united! http://www...ensions-hamas-terrorist-attack Saudi Arabia has switched focus from a deal with Israel to a deal with Iran following the terror attack by Hamas on Israel last week, according to a report. Two sources familiar with the matter told Reuters that Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman has already spoken with Iranian President Ebrahim Raisi in an effort to stymie potential further violence across the region. One of the sources said that talks could not continue for now and that Saudi Arabia would need to prioritize concessions for the Palestinian people when discussion resumed. A second Iranian official said the call lasted 45 minutes and had the blessing of Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei.
murder Member	Sat Oct 14 08:08:47 "No one here considers you to be intelligent, knowledgeable, or capable of rational thought." Don't speak for everybody. You don't speak for everybody. You certainly don't speak for me.
jergul large member	Sat Oct 14 08:12:49 That was a bit unfair. Ruggy was clear on speaking on behalf of no one.
Rugian Member	Sat Oct 14 08:27:50 Murder You're a spic, not a person. I don't speak for you in the same way that I don't speak for my neighbor's dog.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Sat Oct 14 08:40:48 Jergul "Could you imagine living an hour without an adhom?" Here is an appropriate usage of the word snowflake, snowflake. Waaa, I'm a cowardly liar and my feelings are hurt when people point it out to me! Ok snowflake.
murder Member	Sat Oct 14 08:41:24 Imagine thinking it an insult to compare someone to a dog.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Sat Oct 14 08:44:58 Murder You don't count, you are part of the mass of people who: No one considers to be intelligent, knowledgeable, or capable of rational thought. The people who do, are all part of that same mass of imbecilic, morally confused garbage human beings who should be disposed into a volcano.
Forwyn Member	Sat Oct 14 08:48:56 "Imagine thinking it an insult to compare someone to a dog." The Gazans certainly would. I hear they shot quite a few of them last weekend.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Sat Oct 14 08:51:29 "Saudi Arabia has switched focus from a deal with Israel to a deal with Iran following the terror attack by Hamas on Israel last week, according to a report." It's over then, gg. Nothing incentivizing Israel to normalize relations and make friends, they can deport the entire Palestinians population into Egypt and Jordan, then annex the territories, like they were already slowly doing with WB.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Sat Oct 14 09:11:20 There is a degree of uncertainty, but my assessment of Iranian sentiment is that they stand with Israel. They have put 2 and 2 together on this one since many years back. They have realized that the thing Israel is fighting is the same thing that is bashing them over the head for how they dress, what they think and what they say. That the connection established between their nation with Lebanon and Palestine by the regime is the very Islam they are rejecting. It would be a formidable defeat for the Islamic republic to lose Hamas, not like loosing Hezbollah, but it would be the loss of an important front. No matter their involvement in this. The best long term result is that both Hamas and Hezbollah are reduced to ashes, this would unravel the Islamic republic narrative and their days would be numbered. Wasting so much of Iran's resources, good will and standing, setting Iran back for 40 years. Having all of that go up in flames when it is so heavily scrutinized by your own people as it is, the same people you are suffocating with your Islamic horseshit is a recipe for shithole implosion. For reference see the Greek Junta after Turkish invasion of Cyprus and Estado Nova of Portugal after losing all their colonies. The Islamic republic only needs to be defeated in the Levant for the regime to fall. And then, maybe we can start having nice things in Iran and the rest of the ME.
Rugian Member	Sat Oct 14 09:24:14 Murder Imagine thinking that its not an insult to he compared to a non-human and stupid animal. I don't care how lovable your dog may be, he's still an inferior beast.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Sat Oct 14 09:33:07 http://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1713172445073391756 The city formerly know as London.
Rugian Member	Sat Oct 14 09:36:21 Nim Practically speaking though, do you see Hezbollah ever disappearing as a legitimate possibility?
Rugian Member	Sat Oct 14 09:38:00 "The city formerly know as London." Henry Kissinger proven right yet again. Seb, do your ever feel guilt that it's the policies that you support that are leading to the Islamization of Great Britain?
Sam Adams Member	Sat Oct 14 09:59:49 Imagine supporting palestine after those terror attacks. Probably should just nuke the city and restart it.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Sat Oct 14 10:17:24 "Practically speaking though, do you see Hezbollah ever disappearing as a legitimate possibility?" We could have different understandings of "practically". It's all about willingness to pay the price and realizing what the other option is. You know this, there are a few options fighting Islamist: submit, destroy them or be destroyed. They will never give up. They don't care if you kill 4 of their children, if they had 4 more they would send to die fighting you. Their love is not for this world, but for the next. This is why the commit atrocities and brag about them, how they sacrifice their own and yet sleep like babies at night. So, I read "practical" in that context,.
Sam Adams Member	Sat Oct 14 12:29:27 Speaking of sacrificing their own, hamas detonated ieds and set up blockades on the civilian evac corridors. Wont find that on cnn and bbc.
Paramount Member	Sat Oct 14 12:58:45 What happens to the settlers on occupied Palestinian land is first and formost a responsibility of Israel. The Palestinian Authority and Hamas has been telling Israel and the settlers to leave (evacuate) for years. There is even a UN Security Council resolution about it – which says that Israel must leave. The PA, Hamas and the UN has told them to leave. If they refuse to leave it is up to them and what happens to them when the Palestinian freedom fighters attack is first and foremost a responsibility of Israel. Hamas is actually very humane since they have told people to leave. What they did is not a war crime. It is in fact a war crime of Israel to place women and chiidren on the front and to use them as a human shield. Russia can also use this tactic. Tell people to leave and then carpet bomb everything. It would not be a war crime.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Sat Oct 14 13:06:44 Paramount: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afFlfpo-Fsg
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Sat Oct 14 13:08:25 You can hear the Shirazi accent, these are Persepolis F.C. supporters.
murder Member	Sat Oct 14 13:22:00 ""According to the latest reports by local health authorities and media, at least 2,215 Palestinians were reportedly killed, including over 700 children, and more than 8,714 people wounded, including more than 2,450 children," UNICEF spokeswoman Sara Al Hattab told CNN on Saturday." Countries that spend the most on precision guided weapons seem to kill the most children and innocents. It may be time to quit using precision weapons and go back to dumb bombs and firing unguided rockets into populated areas like Russia and Hamas do.
Sam Adams Member	Sat Oct 14 13:29:31 Hamas gives 10,000 ak 47s to 15-17 year olds and then counts them as kids. Also the families of terrorists are legit targets.
Sam Adams Member	Sat Oct 14 13:31:22 http://x.com/breakingryan1/status/1713242291878449516?s=20 Sebs imported terrorists overrun london.
Sam Adams Member	Sat Oct 14 13:44:42 Gaza "kids" http://pbs...XYAA_duo?format=jpg&name=large
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Sat Oct 14 14:16:18 Disgusting.
Sam Adams Member	Sat Oct 14 16:48:51 Its going to be interesting to see how hamas' network of tunnels gets cleared in an age of ground penetrating radar, maping tools, and robots. Should be a bit easier than previously if they planned ahead. The simple flooding them with seawater or heavier than air gas(either poison or explosive, you pick, but explosive is probably easier to clean up) can be too easily countered by gastight doors, so i think a robot or bunker buster bomb on each gastight door might be needed. Listening posts for sure to find the terrorists moving about, then bunker buster.
Sam Adams Member	Sat Oct 14 21:04:40 Another carrier in the med. Thats 2 there. Unknown how many might be in the indian waiting to hit iran.
Rugian Member	Sat Oct 14 23:08:56 "Iran threatens to join war against Israel if Gaza ground invasion is carried out: report By David Spector Iran threatened to intervene if Israel carries out its planned ground invasion of Gaza, Axios reports. In a meeting with UN envoy to the Middle East Tor Wennesland, Iranian Foreign Minister Hossein Amir-Abdollahian claimed The Islamic Republic does not want to see the war in Gaza escalate to a regional conflict but his country would get involved should the Jewish state launch a ground offensive in Gaza. It is unclear if Iran would get involved directly or via its many proxies in the region, including Hezbollah, the Lebanon-based terrorist group it backs. The Iranian FM also said Israel would suffer "a huge earthquake," if the country does not stop its attacks on Gaza, The Times of Israel reports. US President Joe Biden has sought to discourage other actors from joining the war against Israel, saying "[to]anyone thinking of taking advantage of this situation, I have one word: Don't." Iran reportedly collaborated with Hamas on the deadly attack on Israel, the worst the country has seen in 50 years, a year before it was executed." http://nyp...test-news-on-hamas-and-gaza-2/ Well, there you go...time to nuke Tehran and Lebanon.
Rugian Member	Sat Oct 14 23:15:34 "Stumbled upon a protest today at the @UWMadison campus, gross chants including “glory to the murders” They believe the only good Jew is a dead Jew #IStandWithIsrael" http://twitter.com/gdatz/status/1711901493438120191 Seb, jergul, and Paramount are sided with these disgusting "people." Caedite eos.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Sun Oct 15 04:32:52 They are saying ”martyrs”.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Sun Oct 15 04:35:34 According to military people on X spaces 1 carrier is nice to have, but 2 carriers means business, open up a wide range of capabilities.
Rugian Member	Sun Oct 15 06:05:04 Ah, so glory to the murderERs then. That's not an improvement.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Sun Oct 15 06:29:26 Not with the message, but it must be some kind of improvement in the observation. :-)
Sam Adams Member	Sun Oct 15 09:42:11 So hezbollah and iran are entering the war? Heating up in the north.
Sam Adams Member	Sun Oct 15 09:49:39 Appaches did a lot of great work the morning of the main muslim attack. Not enough of them were up to stop it entirely. http://x.com/manniefabian/status/1713555453840400672?s=20
Sam Adams Member	Sun Oct 15 10:21:37 http://m.jpost.com/diaspora/antisemitism/article-768290 Sebs at it again.
obaminated Member	Sun Oct 15 10:59:38 Rugian, do you actually know latin?
Paramount Member	Sun Oct 15 13:57:34 Israeli diplomat repeatedly stabbed by assailant in Beijing USA is shocked: US Ambassador to China Nicholas Burns said he was “shocked” by the attack, offering his “full support” to the Israeli embassy and community in China. “We are shocked by today’s attack on an Israeli diplomat in Beijing,” Burns said in a post on the social media platform X, formerly Twitter, adding he had spoken with Israel’s ambassador to China Irit Ben-Abba. http://www...abbed-by-assailant-in-beijing/ The US will need to send a carrier battlegroup to China sea now. Israel’s existence is under threat.
Sam Adams Member	Sun Oct 15 16:36:28 One of sebs migrants just knifed a couple people at a british hostel in hartlepool apperently in support of hamas.
murder Member	Sun Oct 15 19:31:05 For the sake of fairness ... =============================== Illinois man stabbed 6-year-old Muslim boy 26 times in hate crime motivated by Israel-Hamas war A 71-year-old landlord killed a 6-year-old boy and wounded his mother because of their Muslim faith and in response to the war between Israel and Hamas, police say. Will County sheriff’s deputies responded to a call in Plainfield Township, Ill., late Saturday morning and found suspect Joseph Czuba sitting in front of a home near South Lincoln Highway and Lily Cache Road. Czuba was bloodied from a cut on his forehead, and inside the home, police discovered the body of little Wadea Al-Fayoume, a Palestinian-American boy who had recently celebrated his sixth birthday. The boy suffered 26 stab wounds from a large military-style knife, according to the autopsy, while his mother, Hanaan Shahin, 32, survived being stabbed more than a dozen times. Czuba allegedly shouted, “You Muslims must die!” at the family ahead of the stabbing, according to text messages sent to the boy’s father. “Detectives were able to determine that both victims in this brutal attack were targeted by the suspect due to them being Muslim and the on-going Middle Eastern conflict involving Hamas and the Israelis,” the Will County Sheriff’s Office said in a statement. Officials said the victims were rushed to the hospital, with Al-Fayoume declared dead and Shahin in critical condition but expected to survive. The mother and son had lived on the ground floor of Czuba’s home for about two years, according to the Council on American-Islamic Relations’ Chicago chapter, who condemned the violence. CAIR-Chicago described the stabbings as the Muslim community’s “worst nightmare,” calling it part of a disturbing spike in hate crimes targeting them after Hamas’ attack on Israel and the Jewish State’s subsequent declaration of war. The group said the landlord “had been angry with what he was seeing in the news” and went to knock on the family’s door. When Shahin opened the door, he allegedly attempted to choke her and then went on to stab her and her boy with a knife, CAIR said. “What we have is a murdered Palestinian child, created by the radicalization,” said CAIR president Ahmed Rehab. Czuba was taken into custody at the scene and transported to a hospital to treat the cut on his forehead, police said. He was charged with first-degree murder, attempted first-degree murder, two counts of hate crimes and aggravated battery with a deadly weapon. Czuba is currently being held at the Will County’s Adult Detention facility. http://nyp...ed-by-israel-hamas-war-police/
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Mon Oct 16 01:44:56 What kind of savage stabs a 6 year old, 26 times?
Asgard Member	Mon Oct 16 08:08:14 UN Nazis! Stop the IN blockade! https://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/feb/06/gaza-un-aid-hamas The UN agency for Palestinian refugees said today it has halted all aid shipments into the Gaza Strip after the Hamas government seized thousands of tonnes of food and other provisions. The UN Relief and Works agency said it made the decision after Hamas personnel intercepted an aid shipment for the second time this week. —— <Greta mode> How DARE you!!?!? <Greta mode/>
Asgard Member	Mon Oct 16 08:08:31 UN* blockade
obaminated Member	Mon Oct 16 08:57:53 We all knew going into this that hamas would treat the Palestinian people as hostages. Believe it or not when you fight evil, evil won't fight fair and will go to depths you aren't prepared to for it to win.
obaminated Member	Mon Oct 16 09:02:07 It takes resolve to defeat evil and unfortunately we see how little resolve people like Paramount, seb and jergul have. This is why evil exists in the world and why people defend evil. Because fighting evil is ugly business weak men cannot do.
Seb Member	Mon Oct 16 09:07:24 obamiated: I can't really figure out why you lie to yourself like this. I've been perfectly clear that Hamas needs to be defeated, and am entirely happy for Israel to go in any use what force is needed. The only thing you and I disagree with is whether steps should be taken to ensure the civilian population of Gaza are not killed. The fact is, the only difference between you and me on this issue is not a lack of resolve with regard to Hamas - it is that you are clearly wanting to kill a lot of Palestinian children; whereas I think steps should be taken to avoid that as far as possible. This isn't resolve, this is you actively desiring innocent people to be killed, but lacking the courage of your convictions to make it explicit.
Dukhat Member	Mon Oct 16 10:08:23 Using a horrible attack to justify a massive escalation and occupation that affects thousands of times more people than were actually involved in the first place. We've seen this script before. It's lazy writing but then again, the general audience is stupid as fuck and keeps falling for it.
Sam Adams Member	Mon Oct 16 11:42:46 Light carrier to join the massing fleet in the eastern med. Still don't know whats in the indian.
jergul large member	Mon Oct 16 12:56:10 Obam I think Israel should phycically reoccupy Gaza. I am very unsure if Israel can engage in legal warfare without setting up humanitarian corridors to emergency refugee camps within Israel proper. But that is an different problem up to Israel to resolve.
Sam Adams Member	Mon Oct 16 14:45:47 Sebs migrants went on a shooting spree in belgium in the name of allah.
Paramount Member	Mon Oct 16 14:55:55 Colombia expels the Israeli ambassador http://x.com/warmonitors/status/1713645805939126420 The US has to send another carrier battlegroup, this time to Colombia where jews are being expelled. How many carriers does the US have?
jergul large member	Mon Oct 16 19:20:51 Well, there we have it then. A 6 step plan for Israel. 1. Open humanitarian corridors on the Israeli side of the refuge to Israeli run refugee camps until return to Gaza is possible. 2. Physically re-occupy Gaza. 3. Dehamasfy Gaza without making the mistakes of debaathification. 4. Reestablish as many civic functions as possible under direct Palestinian control on Gaza. Note that former hamas members will hold both key and mundane functions as they have the qualifications. 5. Negotiate a settlement with PA outside of Gaza. Allow Gazans to participate in the referenda. 6. Regardless of outcome, keep Gaza under martial law until the security situation allows for normalization. Easy-peasy.
jergul large member	Mon Oct 16 20:07:37 I am making a prediction of sorts. Israel and Hamas (or Hamas' successors in 20 evolutions) can rinse-repeat for 2000 years if they like. The end outcome will eventually be something similar to above. But now would be good. Less warcrimy. Less sins of fathers paid for by sons.
murder Member	Tue Oct 17 00:34:52 "Well, there we have it then. A 6 step plan for Israel." Or ... 1. Go in and wreck everything and kill every member of Hamas and anyone associated with them. 2. Leave and tell the UN to clean it up.
jergul large member	Tue Oct 17 04:17:02 Murder That is genocide. Hamas does have an armed wing, but also runs and employs everyone working for local government. Which is pretty much everyone employed in Gaza. Saudi Arabia, Turkey and Iran will have nukes within a decade. Then Israel will have actual existential things to worry about. There is a reason status quo existed for a while, but that wierd hands-off occupation is demonstratably a mistake. Israel will have to occupy again. Occupying without creating humanitarian corridors to refugee camps within Israel will simply provide the kindling for another few generations of armed resistance that will most definitely also result in terrorism. You are wrong. The powerless do not just have to sit back and take it. They have as much right to defend themselves as Israelis do. And they demonstratably can defend themselves, though at high cost.
NImatzo iChihuaha	Tue Oct 17 05:39:46 Things Jergul is saying should be taken into account in the context of: "there are a few options fighting Islamist: submit, destroy them or be destroyed. They will never give up."
jergul large member	Tue Oct 17 06:05:45 Nimi That would be point 3. Other points have to do with not autogenerating more Islamists and perpetuating conflict for another few generations. Note however that Islamists do say the same thing about Zionism (Israeli national patriotism). I would not say they are entirely wrong. I have yet to see any Israeli governmental roadmap to peace that is based on anything other than submission at least.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Tue Oct 17 07:04:57 "not autogenerating more Islamists" No it's actually self-playing. Meaning you don't need to do anything specific, it's sufficient that you are not a Muslim and living according to Islamic laws, want a democratic system and so on. You don't need to explicitly fuck with them for them to want to dominate and convert you.
jergul large member	Tue Oct 17 07:24:10 Fucking with Palestinians most definitely creates more Islamists. Incidentally, Israel is on record supporting aid to Hamas as a counterbalance to PA. That sort of came back to bite Israel in the ass. So less policies that promote Islamist recruitment might be a good idea. It is also one of the justifications for reoccupation. Islamists will almost certainly dominate Gazan civic service leadership without an occupation. Why give them that kind of power? Israel tried it out for a while. Turns out that was a stupid thing to do.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Tue Oct 17 07:57:09 "Fucking with Palestinians most definitely creates more Islamists." It's the greatest Islamist propaganda victory, but no. It's not the Palestinians, they don't give two shits about Palestinians. Look at how many Muslim countries are standing line to take in Palestinians refugees as their own. It's the territory they claim and for that, they will "martyrs" all the Palestinians if that is the cost. It also serves as great distraction for the people so they don't ask why their country is a shit hole. Everything can be blamed on the "enemy". If you ever watch a Khamenei speech, you can have a drinking game and drink every time he says "doshman" (enemy). You will be shitfaced in no time. Also, they are Jews, the first people to reject Muhammed and subsequently be slaughtered and taken as slaves by him. That really pisses them off. And these religious and historical references, be it towards Jews or between sunnis and shia, are part of the discourse and narratives in the region, much unlike the Norther Ireland conflict, which was about worldly things entirely. Islam is more than just an existential philosophy, it's a very detailed model of governance and jurisprudence. It is astonishingly detailed and instructive, leaving little room for interpretation and plenty of reasons for the reader to take them literally, since they are instructed to do so, by the texts and praxis. When you implement that in a political framework, the results are completely predictable. It's all there in the books.
jergul large member	Tue Oct 17 09:32:58 Nimi Fucking with Palestinians definitely creates more Islamists in the occupied areas (Gaza and the West bank). Most likely other places too. It is very undesirable to create more Islamists. I am happy to see you agree on that.
LazyCommunist Member	Tue Oct 17 11:15:48 Wow a Jew not welcome in Israel! http://www...s-told-time-not-right-reports/ Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky asked to make a solidarity visit in the wake of the Hamas onslaught on Israel but was told “the time is not right,” Hebrew-language media reports.
Paramount Member	Tue Oct 17 12:42:24 500 killed when Israel bombed Al-Ahli Baptist Hospital.
Paramount Member	Tue Oct 17 13:07:23 ”This is a struggle between the children of light and the children of darkness, between humanity and the law of the jungle.” http://x.com/israelipm/status/1713949754948718657 Does he mean that the jews are the Children of Darkness?
jergul large member	Tue Oct 17 13:35:33 Well, to be fair, that could be about anything. I am sure the Israeli plan is highly contentious internally no matter the plan. A Baptist hospital is a nice touch. The one place where claims hamas militants were treated will be met with a high degree of sceptism.
Rugian Member	Tue Oct 17 13:39:13 Did he delete that tweet? Im getting a "something went wrong" error.
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